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Red Tails spoiler

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  • Member since
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  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, February 25, 2012 2:29 PM

True, but IIRC, they flew combat in P-39s for a brief period in the MTO as well.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

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  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Saturday, February 25, 2012 1:35 PM

stikpusher

The Red Tails briefly used the P-39, but I do not know at what point in their history.

 

Pretty much the entire USAAF fighter community used P-39s in stateside operational training units, which was the next stop after you finished Advanced Flight Training with AT-6s and "got your wings", and your final leg of the "schoolhouse". This is where you "married up" with your new CO...   Next stop, overseas deployment, transition to whatever aircraft the Army assigned your unit, and combat...

  • Member since
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  • From: Washington, DC
Posted by TomZ2 on Saturday, February 25, 2012 11:17 AM

Parade

Q.  I recently saw red Tails and would like to know where the P-51 planes were procured.
— Clifford Harlic, Ocala, Fla.

A.  Three original WWII-era planes were found at Britain’s Shoot Aviation and were used for aerial shots; additional aircraft were added digitally,  Three other planes were mocked up for scenes on the ground.  The actors never went up in the air—they were filmed in custom-built cockpits.
— Walter Scott


Okay, this topic seems to breathes and eats controversy.

Occasional factual, grammatical, or spelling variations are inherent to this thesis and should not be considered as defects, as they enhance the individuality and character of this document.

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  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, February 3, 2012 3:26 PM

The Red Tails briefly used the P-39, but I do not know at what point in their history.

Just like other "based on actual events films/miniseries", as the guy who was one of them said the things shown in the movie happened, just not always in the manner depicted. But they happened. Not one fact based war movie stuck 100% to the historical facts or source it was based upon.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

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  • Member since
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  • From: Bent River, IA
Posted by Reasoned on Friday, February 3, 2012 3:16 PM

Eh, sorry, ain't buying it all.

Science is the pursiut of knowledge, faith is the pursuit of wisdom.  Peace be with you.

On the Tarmac: 1/48 Revell P-38

In the Hanger: A bunch of kits

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Posted by iraqiwildman on Friday, February 3, 2012 1:07 PM

Did they use P-39s in training? That line about Davis squeezing into a P-39 got me confused.

Tim Wilding

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  • From: Washington, DC
Tuskegee Airmen’s tale: factual or a flight of fancy?
Posted by TomZ2 on Friday, February 3, 2012 12:33 PM

Henry L. Moore

I am a 91-year-old Tuskegee Airman who was at Ramitelli, Italy, during the episode covered in the George Lucas film “Red Tails.” Mr. Lucas got it right. Whoever disagrees was not there.

Mr. Milloy complained the film was “little more than a black comedy about guys who clown and connive their way through World War II.” He missed the message. We were just like any other human beings, as was depicted, not high-ranking military officers practicing protocol. Once we were out on the high seas, we were together as an organization, and any protocol, outside of ceremonial parades, was left behind.

There were flight leaders, wingmen, armament and fuel providers, specialists and crew chiefs. I was a crew chief, and my pilot and I planned to split a fifth of Old Overholt when he returned from his transitional flight in the old, used squadron P-47. But he never made it back to fly my new P-47D. That was a sad day, but I got another pilot, who became my best buddy, and moved on. That was combat.

We fought to prove that we could fly and maintain complicated Air Force planes as well as anybody else. Those quick turns film-goers saw with the P-51 were real; we really could fly them that way.

Though a West Pointer and undoubtedly the leader, Gen. Benjamin O. Davis Jr. was also one of the guys. His humanity came through as he kept us from crashing into the Officers Club at Selfridge Field, Mich., cautioned us about race problems and our priorities, and stopped us from shooting up the little town where we were stationed just before we left Virginia Beach for overseas. We’d find him playing poker with his buddies during down time. I wished him a safe return as I squeezed him into my tiny P-39 at times. He was human.

The Lucas film was a small but true episode in the life of the Red Tails at Capodichino, Ramitelli and Cattolica, Italy. We all were young. Everything in the film did happen in some way. Give Mr. Lucas and the original Tuskegee Airmen he interviewed credit for that.

Henry L. Moore, Philadelphia

The writer was a crew chief for the 332nd Fighter Group in Italy from 1943 to 1945.

Tags: Red Tails

Occasional factual, grammatical, or spelling variations are inherent to this thesis and should not be considered as defects, as they enhance the individuality and character of this document.

  • Member since
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  • From: Western Front
Posted by Wolfram von Sturmwolke on Friday, January 27, 2012 9:20 PM

Well, since Lucas did this, now it's time for Spielberg to do the 56th Zempke's Wolf Pack! Ah, how I dare to dream!!Wink 

  • Member since
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  • From: Bent River, IA
Posted by Reasoned on Friday, January 27, 2012 6:26 PM

DoogsATX

 Wolfram von Sturmwolke:

I just seen this and despite Lucas lousy dialog, I enjoyed it. The only thing I found really distasteful was the sinister sneer of the German pilot. It's no longer 1944 and the propaganda value of this is lame and cheesy. Luftwaffe pilots were heros in their own right and deserve more respect.

 

Agreed. The pilot was definitely a caricature. 

The one thing that's bothering me more and more - that final head-to-head between Lightning's P-51 and the sneering pretty boy's 262...how exactly was Lightning riddled by shellfire but still in a somewhat airworthy plane? Not counting the windscreen (which didn't appear broken), those babies had a Hamilton-Standard prop and a Packard Merlin in the way. Surely a 30mm fusillade like that would've plowed up the engine into metal shavings? 

Ah Ha!!!! My post from page 6 of this thread...

"Like expecting a fighter A/C with (6) 50cals (not discounting as potent as they may be) going straight at an A/C with (4) 30mm cannon, taking multiple hits and still flying?"

Science is the pursiut of knowledge, faith is the pursuit of wisdom.  Peace be with you.

On the Tarmac: 1/48 Revell P-38

In the Hanger: A bunch of kits

  • Member since
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  • From: Western Front
Posted by Wolfram von Sturmwolke on Friday, January 27, 2012 5:31 PM

DoogsATX

 Wolfram von Sturmwolke:

I just seen this and despite Lucas lousy dialog, I enjoyed it. The only thing I found really distasteful was the sinister sneer of the German pilot. It's no longer 1944 and the propaganda value of this is lame and cheesy. Luftwaffe pilots were heros in their own right and deserve more respect.

 

Agreed. The pilot was definitely a caricature. 

The one thing that's bothering me more and more - that final head-to-head between Lightning's P-51 and the sneering pretty boy's 262...how exactly was Lightning riddled by shellfire but still in a somewhat airworthy plane? Not counting the windscreen (which didn't appear broken), those babies had a Hamilton-Standard prop and a Packard Merlin in the way. Surely a 30mm fusillade like that would've plowed up the engine into metal shavings? 

 

Yes, 4x30mm = aircraft cheese grater! I agree Doogs. 

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  • From: Austin, TX
Posted by DoogsATX on Friday, January 27, 2012 5:21 PM

Wolfram von Sturmwolke

I just seen this and despite Lucas lousy dialog, I enjoyed it. The only thing I found really distasteful was the sinister sneer of the German pilot. It's no longer 1944 and the propaganda value of this is lame and cheesy. Luftwaffe pilots were heros in their own right and deserve more respect.

Agreed. The pilot was definitely a caricature. 

The one thing that's bothering me more and more - that final head-to-head between Lightning's P-51 and the sneering pretty boy's 262...how exactly was Lightning riddled by shellfire but still in a somewhat airworthy plane? Not counting the windscreen (which didn't appear broken), those babies had a Hamilton-Standard prop and a Packard Merlin in the way. Surely a 30mm fusillade like that would've plowed up the engine into metal shavings? 

On the Bench: 1/32 Trumpeter P-47 | 1/32 Hasegawa Bf 109G | 1/144 Eduard MiG-21MF x2

On Deck:  1/350 HMS Dreadnought

Blog/Completed Builds: doogsmodels.com

 

  • Member since
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  • From: Western Front
Posted by Wolfram von Sturmwolke on Friday, January 27, 2012 5:13 PM

I just seen this and despite Lucas lousy dialog, I enjoyed it. The only thing I found really distasteful was the sinister sneer of the German pilot. It's no longer 1944 and the propaganda value of this is lame and cheesy. Luftwaffe pilots were heros in their own right and deserve more respect.

  • Member since
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  • From: West Virginia, USA
Posted by mfsob on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 8:50 AM

I would agree about Cuba Gooding - especially when you consider that in the HBO version of Red Tails he was one of the pilots ... guess Lucas figured he deserved a promotion for this go around. The pipe didn't help. A cigar, maybe ...

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  • From: T-34 Hunting
Posted by TheWildChild on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 8:39 AM

DoogsATX

Nothing is so inaccurate and unrealistic as Cuba Gooding Jr. as a grizzled, intimidating major...

thats true lol

1/35 XM77  "Sledgehammer", 1964 Chevy Impala Derby Car

Whats next? Aircraft for Ground Attack Group Build

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  • From: MN
Posted by Nathan T on Monday, January 23, 2012 11:08 PM

[quote user="DoogsATX"]

 

Tim Kidwell:

 

Has the movie inspired anyone to build a Red Tail or one of the other aircraft depicted? How about family or friends? Any forum members know a Tuskegee Airman and care to share a story (what aircraft did he fly)? What about the aircraft weathering or details did you specifically like or dislike? Was there anything that you saw in the finished work that you'd like to replicate with your own models?

 

 

The movie inspired me to build a Tuskegee P-40L, but I'm not sure I can bring myself to suffer the AMT/whatever kit that of the Merlinhawk. Fermis did an amazing job wrestling one of those to his will, but I know my limits!

Doogs- My plan is to get the AmTech resin nose kit and graft it onto a Hasegawa P-40M kit. Or an E kit for a short tailed version. Should be doable...been contemplating it for the P-40 group build.

 

 

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  • From: Austin, TX
Posted by DoogsATX on Monday, January 23, 2012 10:36 PM

Nothing is so inaccurate and unrealistic as Cuba Gooding Jr. as a grizzled, intimidating major...

On the Bench: 1/32 Trumpeter P-47 | 1/32 Hasegawa Bf 109G | 1/144 Eduard MiG-21MF x2

On Deck:  1/350 HMS Dreadnought

Blog/Completed Builds: doogsmodels.com

 

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  • From: hamburg michigan
Posted by fermis on Monday, January 23, 2012 10:31 PM

TheWildChild

 Manstein's revenge:

I thought it was a Lucas film?  See, this is how historical innacuracies get started (in some cases)... 

 

their innacuracies are not limited to film. Lucas' studios made a WWII aircraft video game called "secret Weapons Over Normandy" in which the physics and flight handling were terrible...JU88s could turn as tight as spitfires. not so accurate

HAHA, I played that game once.......promptly burried it in the back yard with all the other dog crap! Hated it!!!

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  • From: Monster Island-but vacationing in So. Fla
Posted by carsanab on Monday, January 23, 2012 10:01 PM

Reasoned

No Red Tail 51 for me but maybe one of those yellow nosed, Eastern Front 109's used for home defense. Confused

now theres a great idea.....Red Tails...."The Other Side"...it has GB written all over it.....and I just picked a 109F.....

 Photobucket

  • Member since
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  • From: Bent River, IA
Posted by Reasoned on Monday, January 23, 2012 8:22 PM

No Red Tail 51 for me but maybe one of those yellow nosed, Eastern Front 109's used for home defense. Confused

Science is the pursiut of knowledge, faith is the pursuit of wisdom.  Peace be with you.

On the Tarmac: 1/48 Revell P-38

In the Hanger: A bunch of kits

  • Member since
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  • From: Carmel, CA
Posted by bondoman on Monday, January 23, 2012 7:15 PM

No, I don't much care for P-51's as a model subject because I tend to do "unusual" subjects.

But a NMF "C" is a mighty good looking airframe...

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  • From: Maine
Posted by Stage_Left on Monday, January 23, 2012 6:17 PM

I don't have any plans to build any of the 'Red Tails' aircraft at this point, but Master Sergeant James A. Sheppard of South Portland, Maine, a crew chief mechanic with the 301st FS/ 332nd FG, gave an interview today on the Maine Public Broadcasting System  http://www.mpbn.net/News/MaineNewsArchive/tabid/181/ctl/ViewItem/mid/3475/ItemId/19929/Default.aspx.

MSgt Sheppard is a personal friend of one of the members of my club- Southern Maine Scale Modelers- and attended a couple meetings last year. He spoke mostly about the technical aspects of the Mustang- it was a real pleasure to listen to him. 

  • Member since
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  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, January 23, 2012 3:02 PM

Tim Kidwell

Has the movie inspired anyone to build a Red Tail or one of the other aircraft depicted?

Regards,

TK 

I have a few in the stash. I have the Amech P-40L that hasTA markings options that I was planning on building. I also have the Promodeler boxing of the P-51B that comes with the TA markings, although that one I plan on building in another set of markings, I am thinking of picking up another Pony for my stable.And of course I also have the P-47 destroyer killer markings that came with theTestors Jug. I used the Gabby markings on a build so those are a most distinct possibility.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: Sarasota, FL
Posted by RedCorvette on Monday, January 23, 2012 12:20 PM

Tim Kidwell

Has the movie inspired anyone to build a Red Tail or one of the other aircraft depicted?  

It did inspire me to dig out the Promodeler P-51B that was buried in my stash and take a look at it. 

But I'm on a mission right now to finish off all the partially completed projects on my workbench, so it will probably be a while (i.e., years) until I get to it.

The Nov/Dec issue of the Purdue Alumus magazine had a nice article on Purdue grad Brad Lang, the son of a Tuskegee Airman, who is a captain for Delta Airlines and currently flies the CAF P-51C that is painted up as a "Red Tail".  It's available online for anyone who might be interested.

Mark

 

 

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  • From: Nebraska, USA
Posted by CallSignOWL on Monday, January 23, 2012 12:08 PM

Tim Kidwell

Has the movie inspired anyone to build a Red Tail or one of the other aircraft depicted?

 

After exiting the theater, where I was thoroughly entertained mind you, I definitely had fighter planes on my mind.  But I don't have models on hand for the planes they flew...so it looks like Im gonna gave to buy me a kit. Bummer! Wink

------------------------

Now that I'm here, where am I??

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  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Monday, January 23, 2012 11:44 AM

DoogsATX

 Tim Kidwell:

Has the movie inspired anyone to build a Red Tail or one of the other aircraft depicted? How about family or friends? Any forum members know a Tuskegee Airman and care to share a story (what aircraft did he fly)? What about the aircraft weathering or details did you specifically like or dislike? Was there anything that you saw in the finished work that you'd like to replicate with your own models?

 

The movie inspired me to build a Tuskegee P-40L, but I'm not sure I can bring myself to suffer the AMT/whatever kit that of the Merlinhawk. Fermis did an amazing job wrestling one of those to his will, but I know my limits!

Somewhat related, I've got a Tasca M4A3(76)W in stalled-progress, and I'm planning and finishing it out as a tank of the 761st Tank Battalion - the "Black Panthers" - sort of the Tuskegee Airmen of tanks, if you will. Their combat record from November '44 through the end of the war in Europe is rather impressive to behold. Interesting fact - prior to deployment, a first lieutenant with the 761st was arrested by MPs for refusing to remove to the back of a bus. He was eventually transferred to another unit whose commanding officer would sign the court-martial charges, and eventually acquitted (though he missed combat). His name? Jackie Robinson.

 

Doogs,did you see the movie "The Court Martial of Jackie Robinson" with Andre Braugher ? If not ,it was really good,check it out.

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  • From: Austin, TX
Posted by DoogsATX on Monday, January 23, 2012 11:25 AM

Tim Kidwell

Has the movie inspired anyone to build a Red Tail or one of the other aircraft depicted? How about family or friends? Any forum members know a Tuskegee Airman and care to share a story (what aircraft did he fly)? What about the aircraft weathering or details did you specifically like or dislike? Was there anything that you saw in the finished work that you'd like to replicate with your own models?

The movie inspired me to build a Tuskegee P-40L, but I'm not sure I can bring myself to suffer the AMT/whatever kit that of the Merlinhawk. Fermis did an amazing job wrestling one of those to his will, but I know my limits!

Somewhat related, I've got a Tasca M4A3(76)W in stalled-progress, and I'm planning and finishing it out as a tank of the 761st Tank Battalion - the "Black Panthers" - sort of the Tuskegee Airmen of tanks, if you will. Their combat record from November '44 through the end of the war in Europe is rather impressive to behold. Interesting fact - prior to deployment, a first lieutenant with the 761st was arrested by MPs for refusing to remove to the back of a bus. He was eventually transferred to another unit whose commanding officer would sign the court-martial charges, and eventually acquitted (though he missed combat). His name? Jackie Robinson.

On the Bench: 1/32 Trumpeter P-47 | 1/32 Hasegawa Bf 109G | 1/144 Eduard MiG-21MF x2

On Deck:  1/350 HMS Dreadnought

Blog/Completed Builds: doogsmodels.com

 

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  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Monday, January 23, 2012 11:18 AM

Tim Kidwell

Has the movie inspired anyone to build a Red Tail or one of the other aircraft depicted?

The movie flying scenes have reminded me it has been a while since I've watched Star Wars X-Wings and Tie Fighters careening around the Death Star...........Big Smile

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  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Monday, January 23, 2012 11:10 AM

Hans von Hammer

But I still don't understand why all the "Never Lost a bomber" stuff still exists... It's just not true...

Hans

That's an easy one - it still exists because it becomes part of the legend. It is the old, "if something gets said enough, it becomes true" phenomenon. There are plenty of examples, particularly in politics, but everywhere else too.

Like, as you are well familiar with, the old yarn that the 'The .50 cal cannot be used on human targets.'  Pure BS, but still out there...

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
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  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Monday, January 23, 2012 10:55 AM

Tim Kidwell

Good morning!

Quite the debate we're having. I'd just like to remind everyone to be respectful of each other and not to attribute subtext to forum posts where none was intended. Also, do not use creative or alternate spelling for swearing/curses. We'll delete those posts when we find them. Remember, there are users of all ages, ethnicities, and sexes on these forums. Keep it clean and friendly for everyone.

I think we can all agree that the story of the Tuskegee Airmen is a compelling one, and that movies cannot get all of the facts correct simply due to the medium: Movies such as "Red Tails" (no matter how factually based) aren't documentaries, they are stories. Directors and producers aren't historians, they are entertainers. So, unless someone has something new to add in that regard, we've ridden that horse's legs off. Let's move on.

Has the movie inspired anyone to build a Red Tail or one of the other aircraft depicted? How about family or friends? Any forum members know a Tuskegee Airman and care to share a story (what aircraft did he fly)? What about the aircraft weathering or details did you specifically like or dislike? Was there anything that you saw in the finished work that you'd like to replicate with your own models?

Regards,

TK

 

 

Yes it has.It got me thinking i need to build one of those.I have not built a P-51 in about 13 years,so i thought this would be good.I picked up the Tamiya kit with the Red Tail decals,and got some Ultracast exhausts and seats,so I'm going to take an armor break and give this one a good shot.

PS,the San Diego Air and Space Museum has a nice Redtail P-51D on display I saw in 2010

  • Member since
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  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Monday, January 23, 2012 10:15 AM

Has the movie inspired anyone to build a Red Tail or one of the other aircraft depicted? How about family or friends? Any forum members know a Tuskegee Airman and care to share a story (what aircraft did he fly)?

I built a Red Tail Pony before it was cool..  About 15 years ago, though.. So the answer is, "No" to the first question.. For the second, my wife worked at the Fort Des Moines Museum and did a little work on a project that was dedicated to the Red Tails from Iowa... I'll have to ask her more about what she was doing their, although one of the Red Tails (I can't remember which one she said was there) was down there working with their group...

 

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