BIG Russian Jet Groupie GB

I'd like to finish it, heck I'd like to start it for as much as I've done to the kit.

One of these days... one of these days.

MiG group build: Sukhoi ok. what about Yakolev, Tupolov,

Tupolev: Tu-128 -- Biggest interceptor (started as a bomber)

Yakolev Yak-28P -- Interceptor (started as a light bomber)

OK, guys, first day of vacation, made a run to my LHS, and think I've acquired all the aftermarket bits you can possibly get for the Eduard Su-27. So….time to dive into this beast. :-)

But first, of course I need the help of any resident Flanker experten. :-)

I'm doing this popular Ukrainian variant:

Eduard's instructions indicate that the cockpit should be Aircraft Gray (light gray). However, I also ordered some AKAN acrylics that include a cockpit color for Su-27s that is more of a blue-gray. 

Which is correct? I don't always trust Eduard's color call-outs, so want to make sure I get it right.

Thanks! And hope everyone is doing well.

PB

I think it depends upon the countries, some have a light grey interior, and others have the anti stressing shade of blue, I think from any SU-27 photos I have seen they used pale blue, but the newer SU-30's seem to have grey. I think with either you could be correct, I have seen a Ukrainian Flanker with White wheels before, so I would say there are a few variations out there that are rare, I would say the SU-27 would in all probability have the pale blue colours on the interior.

Light blue, if you can zoom on this you will see the canopy frame is the blue.

Thanks, Dean! I saw a similar photo of a Ukrainian Su-27 and noticed the canopy frame was also blue. So I guess the AKAN blue it is. The only wrinkle is that the Eduard photoetch instrument panel is painted a very light gray, but not a huge deal I guess.

Here is a master list (compiled from several sources)

Lavochkin

La-15 Fantail (early jet fighter)

Mikoyan-Gurevich

Mig-9 Fargo (jet fighter late 1940s)

Mig-15 Fagot

Mig-17 Fresco

Mig-19 Farmer

Mig-21 Fishbed

Mig-23 Flogger

MIG-25 Foxbat

Mig-27 Flogger

Mig-29 Fulcrum

Mig-31 Foxhound

Mig-35 Fulcrum-F

Sukhoi

Su-7 Fitter (a plane like the A-7 and Blackburn Buccaneer)

Su-9/11 Fishpot (pure interceptor) looks vaguely like Mig-21

Su-15 Flagon (pure interceptor)

Su-24 Fencer (about as much a fighter as the F-111)

Su-25 Frogfoot

Su-27/30/33 Flanker

Su-32/34 Fullback (another F-111 type)

Tupelov

Tu-128 Fiddler (Puts the long in long range interceptor, shooting down bombers.)

Yakolev

Yak-23 Flora, Early jet fighter

Yak-25 Flashlight (Interceptor)

Yak-28P Firebar

Yak-38 Forger (VTOL)

I have heard that some of the instruments are grey in Eduards sets, but like I said, the  SU-27's have been for as far as I have ever seen blue on the interior. The only Soviet Jet I had ever seen with a grey interior was the Mig29. Also I have seen this for the first time ever, the soviets were allowed to borrow Iranian F-14A Tomcats for a period of time, something I never knew, I guess they wanted to used all the American systems which helped develop the SU-27 RADAR I believe. 

APA Flanker.html

Wow, I didn't know that about the Iranian F-14s either….now THAT would be a cool scheme for a Tomcat. Gonna do it?

Thanks for the additional info on the cockpit color, I'm definitely going with blue.

An Iranian F-14 being used by the Soviet Union? Yeah I'm gonna build one! I believe there was an extensively detailed evaluation of the F-14 Tomcat published in 1984 by the Soviet Union, all about every aspect of the flight characteristics of the plane, I have seen the F-14 do the cobra maneuver, I have no idea whether it was before or after the SU-27 was constructed, however it was in the US where it was performed that I have seen but the Tomcat could not exceed 90 degrees, unlike the SU-27 which exceeded 120 degrees. I think it's only appropriate to assume that the Soviets found this out before they made the SU-27 as they apparently tested virtually everything on the Tomcat, making extensive use of the AN/APG71 radar. It would be interesting to see what else they got hold of from the west as the Tomcat is a revelation for me. I wonder how long they had it, and where it was used.

I just wanna say one more thing here, due to the fact that I have literally unearthed this, I have no idea what if any of it is true, I want to believe it is, but the information is scarce, however many people think it was not true, however when you see how many Soviet aircraft the States acquired, I find it plausible that the opposite may have happened. I have also heard of the Soviets taking a downed F-4 during Vietnam and having it repaired etc but not airworthy in the end, however I have only heard of this, either way it gives a few what if models, under way in my mental processes!  

Even if it ain't true, doesn't matter….would still be a cool build! :-)

OK, have officially started my Flanker….! Here are the mis-matched cockpit and IP colors:

Eh, I can live with it.

PB

That look's great for the cockpit, but I wanna say that the blue on the interior is really pale, I don't wanna rain on your parade man, but the blue you have is closer to the soviet Mig-21 colours.

It is very close to grey, the blue is like the grey on your photo etch. I am not nit picking, it's just when you said you can live with it, I assumed you were not satisfied, either way I am looking forward to your build.

Thanks, Dean!

Just to clarify, the problem is that Eduard's pre-painted photoetch instrument panel, which is a very light gray, doesn't match what should be the correct interior color for an Ukrainian Su-27, which is the blue-gray (as you show in your pics) I used for the cockpit tub.

In my mind, at least, the blue-gray I used for the cockpit tub very closely matches the color of the instrument panel in your second photo. Unfortunately, the color of Eduard's pre-painted panel is different (ie, light gray).

So when I stated I could 'live with it," I meant the fact that Eduard's pre-painted instrument panel is the wrong color for the Ukrainian variant I'm building, and so doesn't match the cockpit tub. Re-painting the IP would be impossible, so I have to suck it up. Ah, well!

Here's another good example on the canopy framing of a two-seater. Again, looks like the same blue-gray I used:

As always, color perception is highly subjective, so I could be wrong.  (probably).

PB

Ah right, I see well fair enough, I have seen this as well, I believe on the Russian SU-27 it was a light grey, so perhaps it was both. I know the new Venezuelan SU-30 has the pale blue whereas the Russian SU-30 is grey. I think perhaps it could be the same for the SU-27. I have found this photo, I can assume that Eduard being from the Czech Republic will have easier access to basically get on a train and go and see one of these from Ukraine. Almost everywhere I have been in Eastern Europe, which is from the Baltic to Adriatic, including 2 places in Ukraine I have seen aviation museums, but curiously the Su-27 has never been seen lying around yet lol, I guess they're worth too much money to leave on a field yet! Have a look at this PB.

Oh, yeah, that's a real light gray in that pic. Well, as always, nailing down "accurate" colors for a Russian AC is like trying to grab a watermelon seed. :-)

Just as an FYI, the color I used for the cockpit was AKAN 73069, which is described as "Flanker Gray-Blue (faded) cockpit interior: Su-27/30/32/33/34/35/37/39"

www.lindenhillimports.com/akanrussia+ussr.htm

Anyway, sounds like you're lucky enough to at least have been in the general area of where an Su-27 SHOULD have been, which is much closer than I've ever been here in the States. :-)

PB

The Iranian F-14A like USN F-14A had the AN/AWG-9 radar system not the AN/APG-71 which was only on the F-14D. The AN/AWG-9 was already showing its age in 1982. Also the development of the Flanker started in 1968, and the prototypes were already flying before the Iranian revolution.

Dean, by default you're gonna be my go-to guy for Flanker questions , so hope you don't mind. :-)

In any event, the Eduard instructions indicate that the colors for interior surfaces (ie, insides of wheel wells and such) should be interior green. My instincts tell me this probably isn't correct (at least for Ukrainian Flankers) and that aircraft gray is probably the right color (based on the glimpses I've seen online).

Any idea?

Thanks so much!

PB

Grey is correct, on Russian examples the inside of the landing gear doors was red, however the acutal wheel wells are grey, in fact on most Soviet aircraft I have ever looked around the inside of the landing gear wheel wells was grey, never have I ever seen interior green, as even when I looked inside the landing gear of the Mig 15 in Germany a few years ago, the wells were grey, Mig 29 in Latvia the same etc.. Never heard of green inside a Soviet airforce plane. But the landing gear doors can be grey also, some of them have been lighter, and some darker, have a look at these photos, also in case you wondered that silver tank is filled with alcohol inside the front landing gear door, must be part of a de-icing system. I have seen people call it a hydraulic valve for emergency opening but this is not true. 

If you click on the images I have found you get some good detailed close ups. P.S. I don't mind lol, though being busy this time of year, I may take time to get back to you, due to work etc.

Awesome, thank you! Great shots. Gray it is. Although I might have to guess on which shade…as you can sort of see in this photo, the nose gear door looks to be darker gray, almost black, although could be because of the lighting:

In any event, glad you'll be able to help when you can. :-)

Thanks, well the thing with many aircraft is there are variations, even on the same type, if you noticed on the shots I posted the landing gear themselves were dark grey while the wells and doors were lighter grey, whereas in this photo the landing gear is much lighter and the doors darker, I think one thing you have with Flankers is variety.

 As in here the doors are clearly red on the landing gear and the finish is gloss.

Here the J-15 Flying Shark or as we call it, Flanker, well Sea Flanker to be specific has also got the red doors.

Here also a Flanker with unusual for Flankers, (or any Russian built aircraft,) white wheel hubs.

Here is the guy who designed the badge for the tail art on Red 32, Linden Hill decals made a copy seen here!

This is a decent photo, shows clearly another variation.

This is the SU-35, still a Flanker, but it has white landing gear and red doors, with grey interior!

Basically, paint it whichever way looks best to you, not many aircraft have this many variations!

Then there's the other part to paint lol.

I hope to see some more photos PB! Of your model I mean.

Lol! Thanks again for the photos. This is why building these Russian jets is so maddening--there aren't a lot of standards, even within the same AC type. But like you said, that just means I can do whatever I want.

:-)

Will have to ponder some more…..

Well to be honest I had heard there was no one specific camouflage scheme on Russian made aircraft, hence all the variations. I could be wrong as the Russian Air Force has introduced a new paint scheme which though simple, is pretty awesome!

Ooooooooo! Those are nice. I like the darker gray.

(still hoping for a 1/48 Su-30)

Great photos, Dean.   I think you could get away with red gear doors and light grey wells for the early Su-27B & C's, and then start using other colors for the later models and upgraded/overhauled versions.  

That new dark grey/blue scheme is neat (and easy).

Thanks, Dre! I decided to go with a neutral gray for the wheel wells. Will post some pics when I get the airframe buttoned up. Slow and steady...

You know Academy makes a 1/48 SU-30 PB right?

I have personally made this kit and it's great, I gave it away last year though, Hmm I think I want another though, I also want a 1/48 SU-33/J-15 I really hope the Trumpeter or Hobbyboss guys are going to make one of these! I doubt I could count on any other manufacturer to make one, as the Wolfpack conversion set is extortionate! 

Doh! Sorry, Dean, meant the Su-34 Fullback. :-) I wouldn't mind doing an Su-30 at some point, though.

Got the Flanker fuselage together this afternoon. Phew. No major fit issues that some sandpaper can't fix. Will post pics soon.

I wanna ask, the Eduard Flanker, is that an Academy 1/48 Flanker with a bunch of extras?