Let's do a "What if" GB

Warhammer,

  Thanks for the comments. What If is a unique site and I enjoy it a lot!

I've got the "feathers" installed in the burner cans and have begun work on speed brakes..

 

 E-F6F Early Warning Fighter, build from a 1/48 ARII F6F.

 Okay, figured out what I'm going to do so I figured I could share now.  Think back to 1942, Japs are steaming for Midway.  High up over the US carriers, a trio of E-F6F Early Warning  planes with their crew of 3 are up providing 360 degrees of coverage with their new HALD-R systems (High Altitude Look-Down Radar).   Scoping out the Jap fleet at the maximum range, combat air patrols fly out to meed the Japanese planes before they can get close enough to be a threat to the fleet.  Only a few planes are lost compatred to dozens on the Jap side.  Our turn...Every plane that can carry a bomb or torpedo is launched with fighter cover and directed by the E-F6F's to the enemy carriers and of course, all four are sunk.  We continue to push accross the Pacific on the path to victory over Japan 2 years earlier than thought (Aug, 1943) and can now divert forces to double the size of the D-day invasion and end the war in Europe by Christmas, '44.  millions of lives are saved and millions of new babies are born to dads who made it home.  The E-F6F is hailed the hero of the war and one is mounted on top of the capitol building (instead of the corny statue).  Pic coming soon.

 Of course, I really don't know the extend of our radar knowledge by 1942, but that's what a "what-if" is for.  

kg4kpg wrote:

E-F6F Early Warning Fighter, build from a 1/48 ARII F6F.  Okay, figured out what I'm going to do so I figured I could share now.  Think back to 1942, Japs are steaming for Midway.  High up over the US carriers, a trio of E-F6F Early Warning  planes with their crew of 3 are up providing 360 degrees of coverage with their new HALD-R systems (High Altitude Look-Down Radar).   Scoping out the Jap fleet at the maximum range, combat air patrols fly out to meed the Japanese planes before they can get close enough to be a threat to the fleet.  Only a few planes are lost compatred to dozens on the Jap side.  Our turn...Every plane that can carry a bomb or torpedo is launched with fighter cover and directed by the E-F6F's to the enemy carriers and of course, all four are sunk.  We continue to push accross the Pacific on the path to victory over Japan 2 years earlier than thought (Aug, 1943) and can now divert forces to double the size of the D-day invasion and end the war in Europe by Christmas, '44.  millions of lives are saved and millions of new babies are born to dads who made it home.  The E-F6F is hailed the hero of the war and one is mounted on top of the capitol building (instead of the corny statue).  Pic coming soon.  Of course, I really don't know the extend of our radar knowledge by 1942, but that's what a "what-if" is for.

if pearl harbour was anything to go by it was rubbish lol nice story that

Pavlvs: Sorry if there was any confusion but I will still be doing my 1/35 King Tiger II along with the Strella. As for the M61 Vulcans, there aren't many out there in 1/72. You might want to consider scratching them or trying to find an aircraft detailing set with one in it. I believe Czech Masters made a F-16 detailing set with one in it. Also, you could go with a 25mm GAU-12 "Equalizer" or the amazing 30mm GAU-8. As for the 105s, I belive Airfix makes a couple different kinds along with the 40mm Bofors if you wanted to through that it too.

Eddie: I like the added details to the cans. Looks good.

kg4kpg: Sounds cool. You going to stretch the fuselage at all for the three crew members? Might want to reference the late-war radar fitted to the early warning Avengers and other aerial radars on F6Fs and Helldivers.

As for the Mig-25 "Strella":

In 1958, the Soviet Union learned about the Canadian's new interceptor prototype, the CF-105 Arrow. When the USSR heard about the promising performance of the Arrow, officials ordered the Mikoyan-Gurevich Design Bureau to draw up a delta-winged aircraft similar to the Arrow with better performance for use as a high-performance interceptor. But in 1959, the CF-105 was controversially canceled. Thus, the new delta-winged interceptor was ordered to be put on hold. Mig continued to work on the idea though. Then in 1964, the Ye-155 flew and thoroughly impressed Soviet officials and was granted to be built as the Mig-25. Mig then submitted their plan for a high-performance interceptor based on their new Mig-25. This was the plan they submitted:

It was called the Strella (Arrow in Russian) by Mig and featured new interceptor avionics. The Soviet government ordered a prototype built in the hopes that this new high-performance plane could combat the new British TSR.2 and American XB-70 if they went into production. Mig worked on the plane sparingly until it finally flew in 1970. The test pilots loved the new Mig-25. They said it handled better than the standard 'Foxbat' and had amazing high-altitude performance. They also praised its new search and tracking radar and it look down/shoot down capability. By this time though, both the TSR.2 and XB-70 had been canceled so the Mig-25 Strella was put into storage. Mig then continued working on other projects and introduced various other fighters such as the Mig-29 'Fulcrum' and Mig-31 'Foxhound'. Then in 1989, the Soviet Union launched a suprise offensive in Western Europe and the Middle East in hopes of revitilizing the crumbling communist country. But they hadn't couted on one thing; the impressive NATO anti-aircraft defenses. The Soviets were in dire need of a SEAD type aircraft because their Su-25 'Frogfoots' were too slow, every cruise missile was being shot down by US Patriot missiles, and the Su-24 'Fencers' were to busy supporting ground troops. Mig suggested modifying the almost forgotten Mig-25 Strella for the SEAD/Wild Weasel role. The Soviet government accepted the idea and ordered the Strella out of storage. Mig went to work mordernizing the aircraft and making it an acceptable SEAD platform. It was soon realized the huge delta-wing was ideally suited to carry large amounts of armaments and the various anti-radiation missiles in the Soviet arsenal. The Strella was modified by installing new Soloviev D-30F6 afterburning turbofans from the Mig-31, each producing 34,172 lbs of thrust on afterburner compared to 22,494 lbs of thrust with the old Tumansky engines. New avionics ideally suited to the SEAD role such as various sensors and ECM equipment were added to the Strella that resulted in numerous new bulges and aerials. The primary armament was the Kh-58 anti-radiation missile and cluster bombs though at least one air-to-air missile was usually carried. Drop tanks were always fitted for extended range and a refueling capability was added. The new SEAD Strella was sent to the front lines and was a huge success. Mig was ordered to build ten SEAD Strellas now known to NATO as the Mig-25BMD 'Foxbat-G'. The new Foxbat was extremely popular and was a very effective SEAD aircraft, destroying many NATO anti-air defenses and opening the way for Soviet bombers, though their combat career was cut short. In early 1990, NATO launched a huge counter-offensive that pushed the Soviet military back to their previous borders. Under the threat of a possible nuclear war, that neither the USSR or NATO wanted, a peace agreement was worked out and the Soviet Union and all her satallite countries dissolved into Russia and the various other countries we know today. After this agreement, there was little need for the Strella. All ten were eventually retired in the late 90's, five going to various museums and the other five going into storage for possible future use.

Well, after that long winded story, you guys probably want to see some progress pics. Here is what I have done so far:

The kit I am using is the 1/72 Hasegawa Mig-25. Raised detail, a bare cockpit, and a bad putty job by me made me toss it in the corner for a while. I then decided it would be a good kit for this idea.

First, I cut off the existing wingtip ECM pods with my handy razor saw and set them aside for future use:

I then cut the wings in half, drilled two holes in each front half and the fuselage, and added some metal rod to make the joint strong.

Some test fitting and drilling later, along with some super glue, one of the front halves are on. Those stabs for the elevators have been shaved off as well.

For the back half, I drilled and added rod again like the front.

Now with the front and back halves on.

And the look with the delta wing I am going for. I am going to use the elevators for wing tips with the old ECM pods that I will modify and add some plastic card and putty to fill the hole. Also, some new flaps and alerons are in order.

My most used tool on this project so far.

It might take a while to get it finished because I started it as a side project but I have had fun modifying it so far. Questions and comments are welcome.

Warhammer: I like your drawing of the Strela. I just have a picture of the FSW F-18 in my head but  you really have got a clear image of the finished product. And an intresting way of making the wings, making the delta from scratch. And not taking the easy route of chopping the wings of some poor Mirage or Arrow and glueing those to you MiG-25.

Eddie: The reinforced wheel wells look very good, especialy with the interior details.

 

As for my progress: I have started on painting the cockpit. And I have finished my template for the fuselage/wing connection. I hope to have some pics this weekend.

 

Ok, i managed to scribble some sort of story for my British-Japanese Mosquito, so here it goes:

In summer of 1942, in response to high altitude raids by Junkers Ju-86P (or R?), six Mosquito B.Mk IV bombers were modified for high altitude interception role. They had increased wingspan (by 8.4ft), lenghtened (by 5in) fuselage and pressurized cabin. MP470, One of the modified Mosquitoes (now designated NF Mk.XV), was fitted with Pratt & Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp engines, acquired from US for evaluation purposes, as it was more powerful, than Bristol Hercules. MP470 had redesigned engine nacelles and wing root radiators were removed. In other aspetcs it was the same airframe as its Merline engined brethren. Test flights revealed, that R-2800 engined Mosquito was actualy inferior to Merlin engined ones, especialy in high altitudes. During one of such flights MP470 was lost due to poor weather and navigation problems and made force landing in occupied France. Pilots escaped capture with the help of french resistance and eventualy returned to England. The plane, however, was captured by germans. It was briefly used for propaganda purposes but in fact provided no valuable information to germans, because that ill-fated test flight was conducted without armament and radar systems. Soon after it was put in storage.

By the year 1943 on the other side of the world, japanese were becoming increasingly harassed by american night bombings and were looking for a solution. MP470 was disassembled and shipped to Japan in a transport submarine. It was assigned to Tachikawa Air Arsenal and put to comparison tests with newly developed Nakajima J1N1-S Gekko. Both planes had insufficient high altitude performance and japanese gained nothing of significant value from captured Mosquito. During it's time in TAA MP470 was fitted with two oblique upward-firing 20mm type 90 cannons. After test flights MP470 was partialy disassembled and put in storage, survived Allied bombings of Tachikawa airfield and was liberated in 1945 only to be scrapped the next year...

 

Mind you, i didn't go for absolute historical accuracy, but still tried to "remain in the real world". I also added one Mossie to 5, actually converted to Mk.XV, and came up with MP470 after i didn't found aircraft with this serial (i wasn't looking hard, though). MP469 was one of Mk.IVs really converted into Mk.XVs, so it fitted nicely. I already started working on Airfix kit, which is very basic, to say the least. I glued wings together and then cut away upper part of engine nacelles. I also removed nacelles from Lockheed Ventura kit and it seems that a helluva lot of fitting is in forseeable future. The engines themselfs are a poor representation of P&W, but they DO look like radial engines and i am not going to do any scratchbuilding there. I also decided to spruce the bare cockpit up just a bit with few boxes and wires. Overall, i plan to keep this build as simple, as possible. The camo will be similar to "Gekko" - grey underside, dark green top and black cowlings. I am also thinkin to leave interrior in "british" colors, as in my "story" it was not repainted. The only markings will be hinomarus in six positions and Tachikawa Air Arsenal emblem on the fin.

Sorry, no pics so far...

Thank you Borg!

Warhammer,

  I really like your progress and back story..

I've been working on adding speed brakes and here is the progress

I used the cut outs to provide the shape of the interior

The burner can detail is done on the inside.

 

Here are some pics of my progress:

 I have made a connection point for the wings. I used the X-29 wing as a patern/inspiration (more on that in the background story)

Here is it with the wing tacked in place with blu tack:

The canards used to be the tail plane. 

I  also removed the pilot and seat from the cockpit for painting.

 

Pavlvs--

 

If youre still looking for AC armament in 1/72 scale, I would recommend that you look on the shipbuilding section of this forum.  Not too long back, Revell came out with a 1/72 scale US WWII Gato class submarine, one of which is in my stash.  Recently, aftermarket parts have come along for this kit.  There are deck guns available, including both .30 and .50 machine guns, the 20 and 40mm Bofors cannon, and 4" and 5" deck guns.  I believe you would be most interested in the 40mm Bofors, as it has been used on AC-130s.  If you cannot locate a 105, the 5" gun might work for your project.  Definitely worth a look....You might even find something else that looks good, since some other 1/72 scale ship kits have recently come out and aftermarket parts for those are around too.  Most notably, Italeri and Revell both released 1/72 versions of the German WWII S-100 Schnellboot, and it had some similar size weapons on it. 

 

EDIT--you may also have some luck locating the old Testors kit of the 1/72 AC-119K Stinger gunship and using its armament. 

Okay guys, I want your advice/opinion on something: shall I put wingtip sidewinder on my F-18 FSW, or not?

Pro's:

More space for weapons under the wings (which are short, so there is not a lot of space)

Sidewinders are cool

Con's

I need to cut the wings, making them shorter.

And how would sidewinders on the wingtips effect the airflow?

Borg R3-MC0 wrote:

Okay guys, I want your advice/opinion on something: shall I put wingtip sidewinder on my F-18 FSW, or not? Pro's: More space for weapons under the wings (which are short, so there is not a lot of space) Sidewinders are cool Con's I need to cut the wings, making them shorter. And how would sidewinders on the wingtips effect the airflow?

I'd say, don't. As it is now, the airframe looks sleek and clean. Short wings give it dynamic and futuristic, almost BSG Viper-like, proportions. And personaly i feel that wingtip missiles could ruin that. If you want more weapons, maybe you could add weapon bay under those wing fillets (like F-22 or F-35). Though i don't know, how the whole thing would look that way.

Borg: I would not as well. I say either go with internal weapons bays either F-22/F-35 style or add some conformal fuel tanks that have weapons bays like the F15SE. Another alternative would be to go with Sidewinder pylons on top of the wings or the fuselage like the Jaguar.

Pavlvs: All of these weapons have appeared on AC-130s at some time for your consideration on the AC-135 if you can find them easier:

• M102 105mm howitzer
• 40mm Bofors cannon
• 30mm Bushmaster
• 25mm GAU-12 Equalizer
• 20mm M61 Vulcan
• 7.62mm GAU-2 Minigun
• AGM-114 Hellfire

Planned: GBU-44 Viper Strike Glide Bomb; and just a cool what if: 30mm GAU-8 Avenger. I would try Squadron and Greatmodels to see what you can find.

 

 Internal weapons bay,mmhhh, I had not thought of that.

Thanks for the input, I wil leave the wingtip sidewinders of, to preserve the clean look.

moonwoka wrote:

Borg R3-MC0 wrote: Okay guys, I want your advice/opinion on something: shall I put wingtip sidewinder on my F-18 FSW, or not? Pro's: More space for weapons under the wings (which are short, so there is not a lot of space) Sidewinders are cool Con's I need to cut the wings, making them shorter. And how would sidewinders on the wingtips effect the airflow? I'd say, don't. As it is now, the airframe looks sleek and clean. Short wings give it dynamic and futuristic, almost BSG Viper-like, proportions. And personaly i feel that wingtip missiles could ruin that. If you want more weapons, maybe you could add weapon bay under those wing fillets (like F-22 or F-35). Though i don't know, how the whole thing would look that way.

First off, let me say that your design rocks! Second, I agree about the internal weapons bay. Third, this may sound crazy, but with an airframe like that, space is at a premium. There's always the top like the Jaguar. Regardless, your work is coming along very well.

Thanks for the sources, guys. I never thought of the ship sites but they are proving very helpful. Sorry for the com SNAFU, warhammer but I have updated the list accordingly.

I have started my 1/700 CVE for the Lend-Lease GB and realized that the US Navy needed a small escort carrier for areas that were too tight or the situation not big enough for the great CVN's so they took a couple of the old CVE's out of mothballs and added a slant to the flight deck and updated them for the modern aircraft. The first of these proved devastating when assisting the Israelis in the six day war operating in the Red sea and the Suez canal. They wanted to use them as support and escort duty in Vietnam with the PBR's but the Pibbers were too fast and even the short draft of the CVE(N)s was too deep for the rivers. Today after the recent increase of piracy on the high seas, the ships still in service with the Navy Reserve are being updated again and called up for service to escort merchant shipping. Sound Familiar? They are proving useful in the war on terror as well since they can, due to their small size, relatively, operate their air wing even while in port so there will be no more USS Cole type incidents. The one I'm building is the refit of USS Bogue that was sold to Spain and the reacquired by the US before her FRAM and is now the USS Bogus CVE(N) 20. I'm building the two simultaneously. Pics to follow.

Sometimes making up the stories can be as fun as designing the fantastic models.

I'm seeing great work and thanks to all who are inspiring us to be more creative.

Pavlvs: Not problem. Your escort carrier sure does sound cool. I am liking the idea. What kind of aircraft are you going to put on the decks? Are you going to go with standard modern Navy aircraft like F/A-18s, Prowlers, and Hawkeyes, older ones like the F-4, A-4, A-6, and F-14, or S/VTOL aircraft like Harriers, F-35Bs, and Ospreys?

I'm not sure about the aircraft. I first need to see what is available in 1/700 scale. I think Ospreys and F-35's will be difficult to find in that scale. I definitely want at least a couple of Hawkeyes for the necessary AWACS capability but it will be interesting to see how much room the ship will have and that may be the determining factor.

 

Here's a small progress report:

I have glued the wing and canards on, painted the cockpit and glued it back in. Next up, putty! (and a lot of it!) Not only do the wings and canards need putty, but the rest of the kit as well. I originally build this F-18 when I was about ten years old. There are a lot of gaps and glue smears over the whole plane. After putting and sanding it will need a good coat of primer.

Pavlvs: You might want to check out Greatmodels.com. They have a very good selection of 1/700 aircraft made by Trumpeter and White Ensign I believe. I just looked up 1/700 aircraft models.

Just a little update from me on the Strella. I have added some styrene in the holes between the two wing halves. Still need to fully fill those in. I have also added the old elevators to the wingtips after cutting them to make roughly the same sweep angle and cutting the tips to 90 degrees. And I got the measurements of the Kh-58 anti-radiation missile and converted them to 1/72. The R-40s that are included in the kit are very, very close to the same diameter of a 1/72 Kh-58. Hasegawa's 1/72 R-40s are actually to wide! Which is good for me, I can just modify those to work I think. Here are some pics:

 

It is Queen's day over here (I live in the Netherlands), so I do not have to work today...

This gives me time to write the background story on the Northop-Gruman F-18 L (FSW).

First reality (straight from the Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-18#Northrop.27s_F-18L and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop )

Northrop developed the F-18L as a potential export aircraft. Since it did not have to be strengthened for carrier service, it was expected to be lighter and better performing,^[9] and a strong competitor to the F-16 Fighting Falcon then being offered to American allies. The F-18L's maximum gross weight was 7,700 pounds (3,493 kg) (approximately 30%) lighter than the F/A-18A, due to lighter landing gear, removal of the wing folding mechanism, reduced part thickness in areas and lower fuel capacity.

[...]

Northrop intended to sell a de-navalized version as the F-18L, but the basic F-18A continued to outsell it, leading to a long and fruitless lawsuit between the two companies. Northrop continued to build much of the F-18 fuselage and other systems after this period, but also returned to the original F-5 design with yet another new engine to produce the F-20 Tigershark as a low-cost aircraft. This garnered little interest in the market, and the project was dropped.

[...]

In 1994, partly due to the loss of the Advanced Tactical Fighter contract to Lockheed Martin and the removal of their proposal from consideration for the Joint Strike Fighter competition, the company bought Grumman to form Northrop Grumman.

 [...]

(And this is where reaility ends and fantasy starts)

Northop had one more trick up its sleave to try and gain acces to the global jet fighter market. Using the technical knowledge Grumman had on forward swept wings and Northop's knowledge on the F-18, a team of engineers made a new F-18 L design with forward swept wings. The technology demonstrator was made within a year after the merger by simply enlarging the X-29 wing planform and bolting this on a modified F-18 fuselage. Because the F-18 was designed for carrier landings no reinforcements of the fuselage where necessary. With this technology demonstrator Chuck Sewell made a world tour, which attracted a lot of interest of potential buyers. Because of its gaudy gold and green color scheme the technology demonstrator was called the Green Hornet.

This technology demonstrator was developt into a production model. The production model had a lot of the design modifcations of the old F-18 L. Combined with the smaller and lighter  X-29-style forward swept wings the weight of the F-18 L FSW dropped with 35% compared to a F-18D. This greatly increased performance.

 

The launch costumer for the F-18L FSW was Taiwan (because of the failure of the Ching-kuo) which bought 235 aircraft. The F-18 L FSW became an export hit, beeing the first 4,5 generation fighter on the market. Other operators include Finland, Austria, Malaysia, Hungary and the Czech republic.Eventually, even the US Navy bought some F-18 L (and the two seater F-18 M) for there aggressor program. 

Another update:

Puttying and sanding is finished. Canopy is polished (I made a lot of glue smears on it when I build the kit the first time around), glued on and masked with Maskol.

Since this is going to be a "in flight" model I am busy building an display stand. By cutting and bending an old coat hanger the display stand has been made. I just have to glue it in using cyano and Millitput.

I hope to put on the first coat of primer this weekend. I wil post some pics then.

 

How is the rest coming along with their builds?  

First coat of primer is on, so it is time for a update.

 

First a shot of the pilot:

 

And here is the plane in grey primer:

I am not sure what my color scheme is going to be.

My options are:

1) Austrian (or Czech, I have decals to make either), grey camo scheme, a bit boring but the lines of the plane wil be very visible.

2) Finish, either a copy of the grey (underside) and green/black (upperside) mig-21 camoflage. Or a green/black wraparound camoflage.

3) US Navy Aggressor: could be any type of camo scheme.

Do you guys have any opinions on this subject?

 

If you haven't restricted yourself with only military schemes, maybe you should also consider aerobatics team or demonstrator colors. Maybe something like this, this or this.

Borg: Looking good. I am liking the looks of it! As for a paint scheme, I would either go with the Navy Aggressor idea or something like the F-18 HARV, Japanese Aggressor, a desert camo (like the Israelis or the RAF), or for the more exotic, a Czech pattern like some of their Mig-21s.

I think I wil go for a light blue/ dark blue Agressor schem, a bit like this:

 

The first layer of pale light blue is on! I wil be using blue tack for the masking and then paint the dark blue. Pics are to come.

I have to find some decals, probably regular navy markings and a russian bort number from the spares box.

 How is the rest of you guys doing? 

Here are some pic:

 

 

No real progress other than shortening the inboard engine nacelles and trying out some main landing gear.....

Eddie: it is good to see some progress.

I just reallized, I am converting a navy aircraft to a land aircraft , you are converting a land aircraft to a navy aircraft!!! That is typical Whiff modeling, always trying to force an aircraft into a role it was not designd for!

I'll jump in on this one if I may. I'll be building the USS Midway (CVB-44) as she would have looked if she had been converted from an Iowa class battleship instead of being a from the keel-up carrier. This was a proposal at one point, but it never happened. I'll model her to appear as she had been hastily converted in 1942 in an effort to close the "carrier gap" in the Pacific, thus she will have limited AA batteries and and will be similar to an Essex class CV in appearance. I think the time frame will be as built in Jan. 43. I have an Iowa class hull in 1/700 awaiting this conversion and a GB is as good an excuse as any to get a move on. :)