ME-262: Reich Defender II 10/09-7/10

haven't posted much but been looking in over the last couple of weeks, and love whats being done.

It's now 2010 over here in blighty so happy new year to all you guys and lots more happy modelling.

Just dieing to get back to work and get back to my 262.

Gigatron

Well, I finally have a mockup.  Nothing's permanently attached yet, just kinda stuck together.  As you can see, she's not a tail sitter.  That's thanks to the front and mid gas tanks being filled with steel BBs.

 

But for now, it looks like I'm at an impasse, due to the weather.  I need to spray the clear side with Future, but it's too cold to spray (even indoors) and the piece is too large to dip.

Anyway, enjoy!

-Fred

 

 Hey Fred, That's outrageously cool. Nice progress and looking forward to seeing more...

 Mobious

Daywalker man thats great !! I am a very slow builder and that gives me plenty of time to get a bit tricky with this build thank you sir. Althou not as tricky as some of these other guys have been.

Gigatron I just saw your mock up and I gotta tell ya that is just sick over the top AWESOME building !! I cant even imagine trying something like that. I wanna see more.

Awww, shucks...thanks, everyone

Frank, I'm honored to be your inspiration...or is it instigation, LOL.  Either way, based on what you can do in 1/144, I can only imagine what you'll be able to pull off in 1/32.  Part of me wants to see what kind of absolute brilliance you'll be able to pull off with the amount of room that 1/32 gives you to detail.  But, there's another part of me that hopes you don't build it, only because you'll put mine to shame

Thanks, Randy.  I'm currently working on the clear version of the cowling that goes over the gun barrel (between the gun bay and camera bay).  For reasons I can't even begin to fathom, Trumpeter gives you two of those cowlings (one clear, one regular) - but the clear one is a 2 gun version and the regular is the 4 gun version.  So, I'm turning the clear one into a 4 gun version, but it's going to take a bit of time and mucho creativity.

There are some creative decisions that Trumpeter made, that I don't quite get.  The clear, 2 gun cowling and normal 4 gun cowling I mentioned.  The panels that have the spent shell ejection chutes - no clear versions.  And no way to attach the mid/rear tank assembly to the back of the cockpit assembly - or anywhere else, for that matter.  As it's currently designed, it free-floats in the fuselage.  The directions show an attachment point, the midtank has connection tabs - but there are no receiving slots, anywhere.  So I kinda have to make something up now.

And I'd really love if someone had any reference showing how the control rods got from the cockpit to the tail assembly.  My current configuration is sorta defying a lot of the laws of physics.

-Fred

Fred, Mobious, great progress on those builds, looking forward to seeing them finished.

Raptordriver, you did a top notch job on that old Monogram kit.

Frank, that extra month may be useful, as it seems to take me forever to finish anything at the moment!

Happy New Year everyone!

Karl

Randy- Right on!  You'll fit right in here.  I am a slow builder as well!

Fred- You are going to be a tough act to follow, but I shall give it a whirl!  I hope I can live up to your praise, and do this kit justice!  Gonna start mine in the next couple of days, as soon as the effects of New Year's go away.

Karl- Looking forward to seeing what you build!  Any ideas on which kit you plan to build?

Frank, still no idea on the kit.

You know me, it'll probably be a spur of the moment purchase!

Karl

Awwww H#LL I aint even gonna try and follow Fred it would be a futile attempt at best, nor any of the other builds here. I will be having fun though and learning too.

vetteman42

I will be having fun though and learning too.

PERFECT!  That is what it is all about.

A small update,

 Added electrical and pneumatic systems to the gun bay. Plan on only having the port side exposed so I didn't add any plumbing to the starboard side set of R&B Mk 108's.

I skipped ahead and started on the rear set of landing gear struts. First off was carving the scissors to more closely resemble the castings on the original aircraft. The Continental tires were sanded to clean the joint, then the tread pattern was regrooved with a razor saw. After all the carving was finished, acetone was applied to "Smooth the Grooves". (Note: Gotta be careful with acetone, test it on  scrap sprue to see how the plastic reacts, some manufactures plastics are very soft and acetone can really wreck havoc on detail parts. Also it's best to use in a well ventilated area!)

  I believe the struts are now ready to add plumbing and paint.

 Mobious

Looking really good there, Mo!  Even though I used PE for the wiring in the gunbay, there's something about real, 3D wiring that PE just can't touch on.

Randy, don't worry about my builds; if you want to try something, go for it.  Sometimes I'll try something 15 different ways before I'm happy with it.  I only post pictures of the 1 success, not the 14 failures.  There are hundreds of people here that are lightyears beyond me, but instead of being worried about being compared to them, I just try to figure out how they did what they did and make a go of it.

And speaking of one of my epic failures, there's no way I'm going to make that 4 barreled clear cowling work.  The shape is there and it's even pretty good.  But because it's done in clear styrene, every frickin' flaw is visible.  I've tried every trick I know and still, it's a no-go.  If I were working in regular, opaque styrene, you'd be hard pressed to tell any work was done, but the clear stuff doesn't have a single, forgiving bone in it's body.  So, against my real desire to have a clear cowling, I'll go with the normal one and just leave it off for display.

-Fred

Another small update.

A few more pieces of .020" aluminum wire were added for the plumbing, a quick shot of primer, then paint.

The modified torque scissor after paint

That really is some stunning work Mo!  the scissors look MUCH better than stock, and the anti-slip markings are a nice touch.

Thanks Frank,  The scissors took abit of time to carve. So far this has been a pretty fun project, only $1.50 in the swear jar. That was only because I didn't clean my AB as well as I should have.

Mobious

Mobious - this is turning into one FINE build!

Happy New Year all!  I know I've been MIA here for the last few weeks, my 262 reached a point where I just needed to set it aside or it was going to make it's maiden flight out the window and into the garbage!

Here's a "reverse progress" pic, wasn't happy with the area in front of the cockpit so it will have to be redone:

This will be repainted today and new "2"'s applied.  The vacuform canopy does not fit the aft portion of the cockpit so I'm going to make that part with Squadron Thermaform, hopefully the rest will fit OK.  Revell really dispappoints me with the crap canopies they include in this kit along with the 1/72 109G-10 and 190 as well.

Hey luftwaffle, Looking forward to seeing that new canopy.  Like to see progress updates on that if possible.

Thanks Dupes for the comments. I'm kicking around the idea of repositioning the slats, flaps and ailerons. Looks like abit of saw work in store and some fabrication of the slats will be in order to get that done.

 Mobious

Mike- Bummer about the repairs you have to do, but I must admit I am VERY excited to see you posting photos here again!  Hope you get it all sorted out quickly and painlessly.

Mo- I shall be watching closely how you go about dropping those surfaces (read: lots of WIP pics please! )

Frank , Still undecided about the ailerons, the elevators and the rudder, but I had to do the slats and flaps. That  IMO is one of the interesting features of this aircraft and the Me 109. Just wish the guys there at Tamiya would've worked it into this kit as well as they did in their older Emil offering.

 Anyway, I just finished up seperating the slats and flaps. The tools that were used:

1)a #2 Xacto(with a NEW blade)

2) a pair of duckbill pliers(helps make a clean break)

3) a piece of 1500 wet/dry sanding paper(for the topside sanding)

4) water(to sand with)

5) a sanding block(helps keep things square)

6) patience(keeps the quarters out of the swear jar).

  This is how I cut panels

Starting in one corner of the flaps hinge line, gently follow the seam with the knife, stopping just short of the opposite corner. Make several light passes allowing the knife to cut, not shear. Once you've got a good line to follow(usually indicated by ridges), reverse the cut, by starting in the opposite corner. Work slowly with an even drawing motion of the knife. If you do have a slip, Stop, and reverse direction with several light passes in order to get the groove thing working for ya again. Once you've made several dozen passes in both directions along the length, switch to cutting the perpedicular lines starting in the corner and following thru to the edge. Make several passes on these lines until your all the way thru. Check the reverse side to see how close to being cut thru the flap is, usually the plastic will become a lighter color as it gets thinner. After your satisfied that the flap can be "snapped" out along it's hinge line, use the duckbill pliers and work along the length of the flaps hinge line until it either snaps or gently works loose.

*NOTE: Please be careful when working with Xacto knifes, they are SHARP. Don't scratch your nose with the same hand that your holding one in.

 Moving along, The cutout area will have a slightly raised edge from the knife...

  that can easily be taken care of with a little careful wet sanding, and the corners squared up again with a little care and the Xacto knife, if needed.

 This being the upper surface I wanted to knock these out of the way first.  Fortunately for me the flaps aren't built like the ones on the F4F, but on the other hand the Wildcat didn't have slats.

Mobious

Mike, I can't believe that your build is 1/72, it looks stunning.

Mo, great work on the landing gear.

Think I might try your approach on some flaps next time, as this is one of many areas I always seem to screw up.

Karl

 Thanks for the comments Karl. Really the trick to working with the knife is just taking alittle time and let the knife do the work.

 I started on the outboard slat, since I figured this would be a trouble spot, due to the thin material. I managed to seperate the lower section of the outboard slats from the lower part of the wing. After glueing this little sliver of piece of plastic onto the upper section, I began shapping with a series of files, then sanding with several grades of wet/dry paper. Once I got the shape and the thickness of the exposed edges where I was happy with them, I test fitted the piece back into it's location on the wing. This is a shot of the assorted tools I used to shape the slat and how the fit was checked against the upper wing surface.

and against the bottom surface.

 I can see here that a little of the  overall hieght was lost during the sanding, but it shouldn't pose any major problem.

 This is the shaped leading edge outboard slat.

 I was afraid to go any thinner with this because of its length. The photo doesn't show it, but the dividing line of the 2 different slats is still visible. Hope the other side goes as quickly as this one did.

Mobious

Excellent work Mo, and thank you so much for the pics.  One question- how do you plan to re-attach the slats to the wing?  Are you going to fabricate some sort of piece for the front of the wing for them to sit on?  Looking forward to seeing more!

Mobious thanks for posting the " How I Done It " pictures and text. I just may have to try this out on my Monogram build, so in warning I will be watching your progress. Also thanks for the pictures of your nose gear too, very well done.

Looking good, Mobious.  I like that pilot pointing at stuff, like "hey, you missed a spot over here".

Ok gang, all major sub assemblies have been built.  Now, I have 2 questions, one of which I'm pretty sure I know the answer to, but I figured I'd ask.

First - rear horizontal stabilzers; Trumpeter says they go down, I say the go up.  My reasoning, first, every photograph of a parked 262 shows the stabs in the up position.  Second, the mass-balance would gravitate down, thereby pulling the stabs in the up position.  Who's right?

Second - I'm trying to decide on markings and paint scheme.  I have markings for Red 13 and White 17.  13 has plenty of reference, but has been built dozens of times before.  17 has very little reference and I haven't seen many built up, in my serach around the interweb.  So, my first part of this question is, does anyone have reference on 17?  Does it have the same splinter camo pattern as the others, or no camo at all?  And the second part of this question; the tail area is completely lacking in interior detail.  I know the rudder/stab actuator is at the base of the tail fillet, but there is no reference pictures for this assembly.  All I can find is "made up" line drawings that don't offer any real clue as to what's going on in there.  So, I've decided I'm going to paint the tail section.  My plan is to follow the angle of the tail, down across the fuselage.  After test fitting, the only thing it blocks, is a direct view of the detail-free auto-compass (which can be seen from an angle, if you look for it).  I was going to paint a straight line (as opposed to the wavy line I did on my B-17), because, as luck would have it, the 262 does have an actual, dorsal and ventrral,  seam line.  So, I'm going to use the seam as a breaking point for the paint.  So I figured the straight line on the rear would be congruous with the straight line going front-back.  So what do you guys think?

-Fred

  Hey Fred, I believe you are correct, all of the photo's that I've seen in the Squadron Walk Around of operational aircraft that are parked either have the elevators in the neutral position or up, the only photo of them in the down position is one of a crashed British marked trials bird. Sounds logical that the counter weights would move them into that position, over riding the electric actuators. Don't quote Mo on that.

Thanks for the comments, and yep, the little guy is pointing out all my mistakes so far.

Frank, I read your post just as I was contemplating that very puzzle.  This is what I'm doing for that B/A hole I made in the leading edge...

Glad there is plenty of sprue to work with. I can see abit more sanding, filing, sanding,filing, and sanding some more in my future.

Mobious

Fred,

I am no expert on the Schwalbe either, but your logic with the elevators sounds logical to me.  I say go for it!

As for your choice of markings, I built my little 1/144 ME-262 as "White 17", but after painting it realized that the colors I chose were not correct.  Oh, well... live and learn!  The only photo I know of it is a color period photo in the Squadron Walk-Around book at the bottom of page 4.  It is only a partial photo of the left fuselage side, but it gives a pretty good representation on the camo pattern and colors.  Not sure on the actual colors (or the pattern on the wings), perhaps someone with the excellent 262 reference books by Jerry Crandall can help.  Interesting note about this particular 262- it was flown at for a while by Heinz Bar (who also flew Red 13)!  Not sure I understand the last part of your question regarding the tail?

Ok, upward facing stablizers, it is

Frank, about the tail, see the Zero in your signature?  Now, see the angle the front of the vertical stablizer makes?  Now take that imaginary line and continue it down, across the fuselage.  I'll be using that as a paint demarcation on the 262.  Since there's no interior detail that far back, the paint keeps the plane from looking "empty".

I'll see what I can gather from the Walk-Around book.  Up till now, it's been a complete waste.

-Fred

Gigatron

Ok gang, all major sub assemblies have been built.  Now, I have 2 questions, one of which I'm pretty sure I know the answer to, but I figured I'd ask.

First - rear horizontal stabilzers; Trumpeter says they go down, I say the go up.  My reasoning, first, every photograph of a parked 262 shows the stabs in the up position.  Second, the mass-balance would gravitate down, thereby pulling the stabs in the up position.  Who's right?

-Fred

 

Fred I think I may be able to answer this question for ya. Actually either way would be correct, after flying a number of conventional geared aircraft and building one myself. The mass weights are ment to prevent control surface flutter in flight and tend to balance the control surface. The weights generally arent heavy enough to effect the possition the elevaters once parked on the ground. Remeber those weights will have to infulance all the linkages and the weight of the control stick. I found the elevaters pretty much stayed where the pilot left the stick once parked. Some and I am guilty of this would push the stick all the way forward ( down elevator)  to get it out of the way to climb out of the cockpit then it would fall back toward nutral once you let go of it. On a windy day they would tie the stick back ( full up elevator) with the seatbelt to hold the tail down in a strong wind. So either way would be right, however I would tend to stay away from full deflections, just slightly up or down elevator would be more natural. Hope I explained it well enough for ya and helped you out some.

PS Fred I just realized the 262's were sitting on a tricycle gear DUH !!!! The same would apply other than the possition for wind, if they had control locks the elevater would be locked in a slightly down position to hold the nose on the ground. Sorry bout that

OK Fred, I understand now!  I don't know if you have the Squadron Walk Around book, but on page 68 there is a photo showing the electric trim actuator and turnbuckle from the left side.  The fairing around the horizontal stab has been removed, showing the insides.  Also, on page 70 there is a photo showing a few more details inside the vertical tail- mostly just rib details.  If you do not have the book, I could scan those pages for you.  Not sure how well the detail would show but thought I would offer anyway.

One other thing- the elevators on the 262 were electrically activated- would this impact how they drooped or not when parked?  If the A/C were powered down, would the elevators still move when the stick moved?  Just a thought...

Well Fred, I broke sprue on my Trumpeter 262 last night!  Didn't do much work, except clean up the Contact Resine resin wheels.  They are very nicely detailed, even have the brake line fitting molded onto the wheels.  They do have a few pinholes, however.  Most are in the tread area, but there are a few annoying ones in VERY hard to fix places.  I plan to ignore them completely! 

I also cleaned up the nose strut, opting for one of the styrene ones as they did not have the ugly ejector pin marks like the metal ones.  I was impressed though with the fact Trumpeter provides a complete set of metal gear, as well as a complete set of plastic legs.  They even give you an extra styrene nose gear!  Not sure why, they probably meant to mold one with the scissors and the other one without.  Both have the scissors however- rare for an operational A-1a.  I removed it, but left the lower bracket intact as most photos I have seen of the nose gear show the bracket in place.

BTW, no big deal- just thought I would mention the A/C in my sig is actually a Ki-84 Hayate.