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Before They Were Aces-The First Aircraft of the Aces

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  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Thursday, December 31, 2009 1:38 PM

Here is a resized badge. 

John

To see build logs for my models:  http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.html

 

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Friday, January 1, 2010 2:59 PM

Size is ok, but now the title's hard to read... Can you try rearanging it a skoshi-bit?

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Melbourne, Australia
Posted by darson on Friday, January 1, 2010 6:23 PM

Hi Hans, could take me off the tentative list and put me down as a definite starter, thanks.

Cheers

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Friday, January 1, 2010 9:25 PM

How's this, Hans?

John

To see build logs for my models:  http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.html

 

  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: Smithers, BC, Canada
Posted by ruddratt on Saturday, January 2, 2010 9:45 PM

Works for me, John. Yes

Mike

 "We have our own ammunition. It's filled with paint. When we fire it, it makes pretty pictures....scares the hell outta people."

 

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • From: USA California
Posted by vetteman42 on Saturday, January 2, 2010 10:59 PM

Yup the group badge John did has my vote.

Randy So many to build.......So little time

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Nashville, TN area
Posted by bobbaily on Sunday, January 3, 2010 4:15 PM

Hans-I have a request-will you change my build to be Lt. Fred Ohr's Spitfire MK IX as flown in Italy?  He scored one kill with this plane before transitioning to a Mustang and scoring five more.  The kit will be the 1/48th scale Hasegawa....which is in my stash (along with decals), thus saving money and reducing my stash.....

Thanks

Bob

 

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Crawfordsville, Indiana
Posted by Wabashwheels on Tuesday, January 5, 2010 9:34 AM

I've got a good start on Don Gentile's "Buckeye Don".  I'm working on the Tamiya MkVb kit.  I've finished the cockpit with Eduard IP, seatbelts, controls and placards.  Sctatchbuilt the IP bulkhead and rear bulkhead (not shown here), headrest, wiring and handles.  I've since closed up the fuselage, attached the wings, and am currently working on the camo scheme.  In researching I've found several discrepancies to juggle, including the actual ID numbers his RAF Spitfire carried.  I plan to display "Buckeye Don" with British Roundels rather than the American Star with the Operation Torch yellow circle surround.  I've located several good photos of Gentile with his aircraft, but have not seen the definitive photo of the craft with roundels.  The time frame from when he shot down his first two aircraft and the Eagle Squadron being transferred to the USAAF was only about a month.  I'm confident that "Buckeye Don" flew with Roundels, but probably had the two kill markings for a very short time before the British markings were painted over and the USAAF markings added.  So, now I will proceed slowly.  I've got a book on the Eagle Squadron coming.  If anyone has some good insight regarding that question, I'm all ears.  Like Hans said, Ive spent more time researching than building.  That's what makes this hobby (obsession) so fun.  Rick

 

  • Member since
    September 2008
  • From: World Champions! Not anymore..
Posted by swingr1121 on Tuesday, January 5, 2010 7:13 PM

Rick, nice start!  Glad to see that I'm not the only one who's started.  Speaking of that, I've got the pit on the Mustang done, installed, and closed up the fuse and whatnot.  Here are some pics..

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's where we stand now.  Soon enough I'll have it primed and ready for paint.

 

Mike

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • From: USA California
Posted by vetteman42 on Tuesday, January 5, 2010 7:50 PM

Rick and Mike nice starts YesYes I havent built a Tamiya 51 yet and cant wait to get started on mine

Randy So many to build.......So little time

  • Member since
    September 2008
  • From: World Champions! Not anymore..
Posted by swingr1121 on Tuesday, January 5, 2010 9:58 PM

vetteman42

Rick and Mike nice starts YesYes I havent built a Tamiya 51 yet and cant wait to get started on mine

 

This is my first one and it looks like it surely won't be the last..

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Wednesday, January 6, 2010 7:21 AM

jeaton01

How's this, Hans?

 

 

Good to go...

Hans-I have a request-will you change my build to be Lt. Fred Ohr's Spitfire MK IX as flown in Italy?

Done

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Wednesday, January 6, 2010 7:38 AM

I switched out kits, went with Eduard for this one... I wanted to do the gunbay up right for the Monogram kit, and the plan won't work for Old Crow...  I recently came across some research that pertains to my Uncle John on Guadalcanal and his Cactus Air Force P-39, so it'll be done on the Guadalcanal build..

The Eduard 'pit so far... I used the PE panel with a dial set, but I think I'm going to rebuild the gunsight... I just don't like the kit part..

 

 

 

I added four stretched sprue bolt-shafts to the IFF mount behind the armor.  The IFF wasn't installed stateside, but I did add the power cable, which is a PE piece... The seat adjustment lever (The Airacobra seat was adjustable for up & down only.  The pedals were adjustable for leg-length, although max-height for a P-39 pilot was still only 5'8". Taller pilots had some issues) is also sprue.  There WAS a kit part for it, but the carpet monster ate it, so...

The seat is a resin casting

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Wednesday, January 6, 2010 7:43 AM

Also...

I added a link to the Reference thread to the first post of this one. That way you don't have to hunt for it on another forum page.. Here it is again, just because I can:

/forums/t/123752.aspx

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Friday, January 8, 2010 11:23 PM

Got the Classic Airframes Hurricane Mk I out of the deep stash today, here is the boxart:

John

To see build logs for my models:  http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.html

 

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: Louisville, KY
Posted by pordoi on Monday, January 11, 2010 5:52 PM

Lt. Col. Neel Kearby was the top P-47 Thunderbolt Ace in the SWPA, accruing 22 kills flying with the 348th FG from early September 1943 until he was shot down and killed over Wewak PNG on March 5, 1944. For a time during early 1944, Kearby, Dick Bong, and Tom Lynch were neck and neck in the race for top Ace in the PTO (Bong - 24, Kearby - 21, Lynch - 19).

The P-47 was not looked upon favorably by most of the USAAF pilots who preferred the P-38 for its better agility and maneuverability at lower altitudes, its longer range, and the comfort and perceived security of having two engines when engaging the enemy meant flying over vast expanses of open ocean. However, Kearby recognized the strengths of the Jug and championed tactics that took advantage of its high altitude performance, dive speed, fire power and its ability to take punishment. When looking for information about Kearby’s aircraft, it was easy to find photos of the plane that he flew in 1944 up to the time of his death. This was a P-47D-4 christened Fiery Ginger IV, named after his wife Virginia.

It was also readily acknowledged that Kearby flew a P-39 in Panama before training in the P-47 and being deployed in the SWPA. While modeling Kearby’s P-39 would have been more in the spirit of this GB, I found virtually nothing about this aircraft (still looking; any known refs would be appreciated).

But calling an aircraft Fiery Ginger IV suggests that there was a Fiery Ginger I, II and III...; or were there? There is some confusion regarding Kearby’s earlier aircraft, mostly about Fiery Ginger II, which some refs say there is little known about. The best answer in my searches came from "Mustang and Thunderbolt Aces of the Pacific and CBI" by John Stanaway. This reference states that Fiery Ginger I was actually the plane that Kearby used stateside when training. His first aircraft in the PTO was christened Fiery Ginger, but was in effect Fiery Ginger II. Stanaway also suggests that the name of this aircraft was mis-spelled as Firey Ginger, which was subsequently corrected on his later planes. I haven’t found a clear photo showing the mis-spelling yet. However, sometime in September, Kearby switched aircraft to a second D-2 which he christened as Fiery Ginger III (although one ref states that this was a D-16, serial 42-75908).  It was in Ginger III that Kearby tallied six kills in one mission on October 11, 1943. The original Fiery (Firey) Ginger was apparently transferred to the 342nd FG and subsequently lost with its pilot in the third week of October, 1943. Later in 1943, Fiery Ginger III was transferred from Kearby’s 348th to the newly arrived 58th FG and Kearby flew in Fiery Ginger IV, the P-47D-4 pictured above.

So Lt. Col. Neel Kearby actually became an Ace in a day in Fiery Ginger III. But, he had three kills prior to the October 11 encounter and these are recorded as being shot down by Fiery (Firey) Ginger. So I will argue to Hans that Fiery Ginger (or Firey, or Fiery Ginger II, whatever one wishes to call it) fits into the spirit of this GB and will be the subject of my build. A P-47D Razorback; serial number 42-8145, having the theater markings of a white tail and identified by a blue 73. The leading edge of the wings of his aircraft were also painted white.

 

That said, there is still some confusion since Fiery Ginger III may have had the same markings, but it is not clear to me what the real serial number of the Ginger III was. But one other thing may distinguish Fiery Ginger from Ginger III. In late August/early September, there was a change in markings from the roundrel with star to the star and bar. The 348th was not quick in making this change, so the aircarft shown in this photo and the one above likely represent the 348th P-47s around September when Kearby made his first 3 kills (73 is Kearby). Photos are reproduced from "Kearby’s Thunderbolts" by John Stanaway and are presented for discussion purposes only.

 

Aside from the markings, the demarcation between olive and neutral gray seems to be a bit higher on the early Fiery Ginger than on later versions, so that will be reflected in the finish of this build. One last thing; a major concern regarding the use of the P-47 in the PTO was its limited range compared to the P-38. To address this issue, a variety of different drop tank designs were used that ultimately led to the design of a suitable belly tank. Given the scarcity of equipment and supplies in the PTO, this took a bit of time. In the meantime, give you one guess what solved the problem... converting P-38 drop tanks for use on wing pylons of the P-47. This must have been quite effective since they were apparently used even on later NMF P-47s. Forum member RadMax responded to my plea for 1/48 P-38 drop tanks, so they will be mounted on the wings. Thanks, Max!!

 

The base kit is the Tamiya P-47D Razorback shown below:

 

Construction will be mostly if not fully OOB and starts as usual with the cockpit which is then quickly zipped up between the two havles of the fuselage.  This cockpit is impressive; highly detailed; I can't see justification for using PE to improve it, aside from adding seatbelts. But ol' Neel hisself will be occupying the seat (see below) so I won't need those.

 

A few seems to take care of still.  Here's Neel tucked in...

 

See the resemblence?

 

This is how you fly a plane, Pilgrim....

 

Further updates in the near future. Thanks for looking.

Don

 

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Crawfordsville, Indiana
Posted by Wabashwheels on Monday, January 11, 2010 6:27 PM

Don,   Fabulous looking cockpit detail, Lt. Col. Kearby looks great too.  I enjoy the slice of history that you shared.  I just happened to see a bit on Kearby on "Worlds Deadliest Aircraft" today.  Great Start.  Rick

 

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Crawfordsville, Indiana
Posted by Wabashwheels on Wednesday, January 13, 2010 8:34 PM

I've got to spend some good time with "Buckeye Don" this week.  The squadron markings on the fuselage are tight, but believable.  I've got a good photo of the right side and it is pretty close.  I'll have to sit back and decide about the aircraft number in the fuselage band.  It's there on the painting, but does not seem to be there in the photograph.  It is amazing how ragged the exterior of those airplanes appear.  Rick

 

 

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: Louisville, KY
Posted by pordoi on Thursday, January 14, 2010 9:37 AM

Looking good, Rick.  The hard edged camo came out really well.  Was it masked using silly putty; I've been meaning to try that in the near future.

Don

 

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Crawfordsville, Indiana
Posted by Wabashwheels on Thursday, January 14, 2010 10:49 AM

Thanks Don, I've become a believer in the blue painters tape.  Scotch or  3M work really nice.  You can buy them in varying degrees of tack, but frankly off the shelf at Wal-Mart has worked great for me.  I've had no trouble pulling off paint, or with paint wanting to bleed under the tape.  The painters tape is just what it says.  It is very thin and comes off the model leaving a very clean edge.  I do cut it into narrow strips when working in tight complex areas, but it holds very well even in tough areas.  I blew on Model Master enamels with a Paasch single action airbrush.  I did have to take down a lip on the yellow leading edge with some 1200 grit sand paper.  It did build up a little at the tape.  I blame that on the yellow.    Now if I could just perfect the feathered edge...       Rick.

 

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Friday, January 15, 2010 11:29 PM

FWIW to y'all, I got to thinkin' about the fact that only US Aces were named as such with five kills.. The Luftwaffe, RAF & RN, British Commonwealth, Free French, and Soviet, along with most other European air forces didn't until they had 10 confirmed kills..  Another thing to consider is that many 8th AF aces were NOT aces after the war until it was confirmed that they had 5 Air-to-Air kills.  The 8th let pilots count air-to-ground kills after Jimy Doolittle took command for the purpose of kill markings on their aircraft...

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Spring Branch, TX
Posted by satch_ip on Monday, January 18, 2010 1:18 PM

Hans I would like to enter with Lt Lee Archer's P-51C of the 302nd FS part of the famed Tuskegee Airmen.  He is the only recognized ace from that famous group, attaining that status 50 years after the conflict.  His first kill was reclassified as a half kill by the USAAC to avoid having a black ace.  An Air Force review of air to air victories in 1990s restored that kill thus giving him 5 confirmed kills. 

The kit is the AM P-51C Tuskegee Airmen.  What say you von Hammer?

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Wednesday, January 20, 2010 1:53 PM

I knew this one would come up... According to the American Fighter Aces Association( http://www.americanfighteraces.org/about.htm ), Archer still hasn't been awarded a 5th kill, although he's been been given the status of "Honorary Ace" ...   A lot of websites say he was awarded the 5th kill, but Archer himself has denied having 5 kills, and the AFAA agrees... Here's what the Official USAF records say:

18 Jul 1944 2 Lt Lee A. Archer 302 FS 1 ME-109
12 Oct 1944 1 Lt Lee A. Archer 302 FS 3 ME-109s

http://www.au.af.mil/au/afhra/avc.asp

Go there, and click on Aerial Victory Credits part way down the page. Fill in Archer in the first selection line, and specify Begins With as the criteria. You will get a list of anyone named Archer and their victories. It shows Lee with four victories and gives the dates.

So, I have to say, "No" to Colonel Archer's inclusion...

Sooo.... What else ya got?

 

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Spring Branch, TX
Posted by satch_ip on Wednesday, January 20, 2010 5:04 PM

Hans,

I did check the AFAA website first and found that he had 4.5.  The Osprey Tuskegee Airmen book states that the USAF reviewed the records and awarded him the fifth kill.  A quick check of the AF.MIL site shows no record of that review but it does have an interview with Col Archer in which he states that he never applied for nor claimed the fifth kill nor did he think there was any discrimination. 

I think the Osprey book has a problem with addition.  After reading all the textual references to Archer, it says that the disputed half kill was on his three kill day.  But those three are already accounted for. Archer said the half kill was his first so it appears that the Osprey book is incorrect.

Still, it would be a cool subject.  Maybe I could be an "honorary Group Build member" ?Big Smile

  • Member since
    January 2010
Posted by ronbrewington on Thursday, January 21, 2010 3:10 AM

Greetings...I'm Ron Brewington, former National Public Relations Officer, Tuskegee Airmen, Inc. (TAI)...In regards to the status of Tuskegee Airman 1st Lt. Lee Archer as an ace, please note that Archer is currently listed with the Air Force Historical Research Agency at Maxwell AFB, Montgomery, AL as having only 4 confirmed kills and is NOT listed as an ace.

There were two other Tuskegee Airmen who got four kills besides Archer: Capt. Joseph D. Elsberry and Capt. Edward L. Toppings.

There were no Tuskegee Airmen aces during WWII.

For more information about the Tuskegee Airmen, please see: http://www.tuskegeeairmen.org

 

 

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Thursday, January 21, 2010 8:21 AM

Thanks for the help, Ron... I did some work on the CAF's "Project Redtail (P-51C "Tuskegee Airmen")" some years ago and had a brief meeting with Colonel Archer..

As for an "Honorary" build, I'd still have to say no... Archer's not an Ace...  Perhaps you could start a Group Build featuring the Tuskegee Airmen for Febuary, which is Black History Month?

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Thursday, January 21, 2010 6:33 PM

Ok, finally got back to my "Old Crow" (AiraCrowbra?") and attached the wings... Adding the interior parts for the intakes, along with the PE screens turned out to be a waste of time as A: You can't see the screens, and B: They cause the upper wing halves to set too high up to close, even with clamps.. So, I got out the trusty Dremel and ground off the tops of the intakes (shooting one of the screens into the Hinterlands in the process) which allowed the wing halves to close... Still had to use a skoshi bit of putty though.

 

As you can see from the above, there was a pronounced gap in the left wing/fuselage joint, which I filled with a little bead of Testor's Putty, thinned with alcohol. I later cleaned out the panel lines that got a little putty in 'em and also filled those shrinkage cracks... I also had to fill the joint at the top of the carburator air intake due to the fuselage halves beig one shorther than the other..

 The right wing joined nice & tight, but on the underside, the joint between the trailing edge of the flap and the fuselage was pretty wide, so it got filled, as well and I also cleaned out the flap/fuselage joint...

 

 

I'm starting on the main wheel wells tonight as they are void of any detail, just some strip & sprue in order to give them some interest...

Coulpe of things about this kit.. There's some alignment issues, namely the fuselage halves.. The left one is shorter that the right, meaning I have to sande the rudder trailing edge to match the right, and this is olso what caused the gap in the flap/fuselage underside joint.. Also, the trailing edges of the wings are way too thick and I should really have sanded them thinner.. I was just too lazy to do it...

Overall, I'm not all that impressed with the Eduard 'Cobra over the Monogram/Revell version, and I'm not saying it because of my well-known bias towards Monogram... BUT... You'd think that with the price of Eduard's 1/48th kits, it's gonna be a better fit than the Revellogram, but I'm not seeing it..  Sure, there's a bit more detail in the 'pit, and there's the PE and decal selection, as well as flattened tires, but that's not really enough, IMHO.. Glad I didn't have to pay for this one, lol... 

PS:I also noticed that there's a four-bladed prop option for this bird, meaning that there's a chance for a different mark of Airacobra (I can't remember which model it was, only that it never went into propuction)...

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • From: USA California
Posted by vetteman42 on Thursday, January 21, 2010 11:11 PM

Pordoi Great start on your P-47, the pit detail is awesome keep up the good work. Thanks for the well done history lesson also, makes this group much more interesting I think.

Wabashwheels your Spitfire is looking good also, cant wait to see more of her. I still have to build a nice Spit one day.

Hans von Hammer What can I say I always like seeing your builds progress. Looks like you are forcing that kit into submission, cant believe the filler needed in the wing roots on a high end kit. Love your work on the office, and cant wait for more WIP pictures.

Satch_ip I would be interested in a Tuskegee Airman GB later in the year, sounds like a good idea to me.

Randy So many to build.......So little time

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Friday, January 22, 2010 9:31 AM

Heh... Well, I started to detail the wheel wells, and had put in some strip when I noticed that the instructions called for parts I missed.. Turns out there were wheel wells that I was supposed to add BEFORE I glued the wing halves together... D'OH!!!!

But, no worries.. Rather than pull the wings apart, I just sanded off the edges that were supposed to mate with the tops of the wells until they fit right into the wells, then I glued them in place..  It only took a few extra minutes.. I got BIGGER problem though, and that's that I'm missing the right stabilizer..

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: Louisville, KY
Posted by pordoi on Friday, January 22, 2010 6:36 PM

Hey Hans, nice recovery from the wheel well SNAFU.  But sorry, don't have any advice on how to deal with the missing stabilizer.  Was it just not included in your kit? 

    A quick update on Neel Kearby's Fiery Ginger.  The construction phase is mostly complete.  Just a few fiddly bits (e.g., antenna, nav lights, etc.) to add after painting; otherwise, I'm certain that I'd just break them off during the process.  The P-38 drop tanks are from a Hasegawa kit and were a gift from forum member RadMax.  I snipped off the locating pins and sanded the pylons to fit the curvature of the P-47 wings.  I think it looks pretty good.  Also, the pics of Kearby's aircraft doesn't show a hard point on the belly so the kit parts were snipped, filled and sanded.  Just about ready to mask off the pit and wells and give her a coat of primer, check and smooth the the seams if necessary, then begin painting.  Just a few pics:

 

 

 

and Neel ready to go....

 

 

Don

 

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