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Before They Were Aces-The First Aircraft of the Aces

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  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Saturday, January 23, 2010 9:24 AM

Hey Hans, nice recovery from the wheel well SNAFU.  But sorry, don't have any advice on how to deal with the missing stabilizer.  Was it just not included in your kit? 

Thanks, although it was more a "FUBB" than a SNAFU, really... (F***ed Up Beyond Belief for you civilians and the folks in Rio Linda, CA)  Had several with this kit, not the least is the missing stab... I honestly don't know if I lost it or it was never there (my bench is rather"busy", shall we say...). When I first got it, there was no clear parts tree (meaning no canopy, landing light, gunsight, or doors) and Eduard never replied to me, even after numerous emails, about a replacement tree... Luckily, a fellow forum member sent me a set (Dunno where he got it and he asked to reamain anonymous... I like that, lol..)...

 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Saturday, January 23, 2010 2:07 PM

Hey Hans (and everyone else)

Really impressive progress (and research) so far.

Hans, I wanted to let you know that I am still thinking of jumping into this GB with the P-40 of Pappy Boyington, but I am not going to commit right now.  I'm a little burnt out on GBs these days and don't want to fall in the trap of joining more than I can possibly finish.  I've got one GB that I am wrapping up and another  project to complete, then, if time permits, I'll jump into this one.

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Spring Branch, TX
Posted by satch_ip on Saturday, January 23, 2010 7:28 PM

Bbrowniii, what scale and kit were you contemplating?  I was going to do Boyington's AVG P-40 if I can find the right decals.  I have the old Monogram P-40B but the number on the sheet is 14 and Boyington's first crate was 21.

I have a plan B if you want Boyington.

satch

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Spring Branch, TX
Posted by satch_ip on Sunday, January 24, 2010 10:26 AM

I have a question about aircraft assignments.  In WWII squadrons, were pilots assigned a specific aircraft or did they fly whatever mount was available.  I am talking more about junior guys more so than the established aces. 

If aircraft were assigned randomly, would the correct squadron markings be sufficient for this build, excluding named aircraft of course.

satch

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Monday, January 25, 2010 12:19 PM

In most cases,  the aircraft were assigned to specific pilots, but the pilots also flew whatever aircraft was available.  That means that if you were slated to fly, but your aircraft was deadlined, you didn't get out of the mission, you just flew another one...  A good example of this is Duke Cunningham & Randy Driscol's thre-MiG kill day in May 72, the sortie that made them Aces... They were flying "Showtime 100" (NG 100), which was the CAG's (Commander Air Group,  the guy who owns ALL the aircraft in the Carrier Battle Group)  assigned aircraft, rather than their assigned Phantom, "NG 107"... "Showtime 100" carried the CAG's name on the front canopy rail, while the rear one had the name "Ensign I.M. Fearless", since the CAG didn't have a regular RIO...

Another example is the F4U-1 Corsair  "Lucybelle" (Some will say it's Lulubelle, but that's been more or less disproven since)  that was assigned to Pappy Boyington.  That aircraft was hastily marked for publicity shots of Boyington, and was never assigned to him, he never flew it, it was never even assigned to VMF 214, nor did it ever fly any combat missions...

If aircraft were assigned randomly, would the correct squadron markings be sufficient for this build, excluding named aircraft of course.

A fair number of  named, or personal aircraft were lost while being flown by pilots who had to "borrow" that aircraft...  But in most cases (I'm speaking USAAF here) a pilot would be assigned his own aircarft upon arrival, and it would be "his" aircraft until it was lost or worn out... A good example of this practice would be Tommy McGuire's five different "Pudgy" P-38s..  The US Navy and USMC didn't do that so much, especially the land-based units...

So to answer you question, the answer is, "I don't know"...  You'd have to give me a specific situation...

 

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Monday, January 25, 2010 12:21 PM

[quote]

Hans, I wanted to let you know that I am still thinking of jumping into this GB with the P-40 of Pappy Boyington...*snip*  ... I've got one GB that I am wrapping up and another  project to complete, then, if time permits, I'll jump into this one.

No sweat...  Just lemme know, Brownie..

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Monday, January 25, 2010 12:22 PM

satch_ip

Bbrowniii, what scale and kit were you contemplating?  I was going to do Boyington's AVG P-40 if I can find the right decals.  I have the old Monogram P-40B but the number on the sheet is 14 and Boyington's first crate was 21.

I have a plan B if you want Boyington.

satch

No law against the same pilot & plane, Satch... It's your call...

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Monday, January 25, 2010 1:10 PM

satch_ip

Bbrowniii, what scale and kit were you contemplating?  I was going to do Boyington's AVG P-40 if I can find the right decals.  I have the old Monogram P-40B but the number on the sheet is 14 and Boyington's first crate was 21.

I have a plan B if you want Boyington.

satch

Nope, satch, you take him...  Like I said, I'm a bit of a 'hanger's on' around this GB.  If I get to it, I will, but otherwise, at least you'll get him done.

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
    September 2015
  • From: The Redwood Empire
Posted by Aaronw on Monday, January 25, 2010 1:46 PM

I've got the Revell Nieuport 28 which comes with markings for Eddie Rickenbacker. It looks like he got his 1st six kills in this plane, and then moved over to the SPAD XIII for the remaining 20. Would that be acceptable even though he did fly it as an ace? As far as I can tell the same plane was used for those 6 kills, so he doesn't really have another pre-ace plane.

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Monday, January 25, 2010 5:17 PM

Aaronw

I've got the Revell Nieuport 28 which comes with markings for Eddie Rickenbacker. It looks like he got his 1st six kills in this plane, and then moved over to the SPAD XIII for the remaining 20. Would that be acceptable even though he did fly it as an ace? As far as I can tell the same plane was used for those 6 kills, so he doesn't really have another pre-ace plane.

If you can do the single-gun version..  Rickenbacker's Nieuport 28 initially was equipped with only one gun since there weren't enough guns to go around the 94th to equip every aircraft with two...   

  • Member since
    September 2015
  • From: The Redwood Empire
Posted by Aaronw on Monday, January 25, 2010 7:23 PM

Interesting, I knew that his first missions were unarmed, I didn't know that they flew with one gun for a period. I'll have a look and see how much trouble that would be to pull off.

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Monday, January 25, 2010 10:27 PM

I'd imagine that it was the fuselage side-mount gun that was aded later...

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by thuds1 on Monday, February 1, 2010 11:57 AM

Duiker,

Osprey just put out aircraft of the aces # 91 Brewster F2A Buffalo aces of WW2,I hope this helps .

Frank C

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: Louisville, KY
Posted by pordoi on Monday, February 1, 2010 6:41 PM

A further update on Fiery Ginger flown by Neel Kearby.  Had some hours of free time this weekend and did some painting of the p-47.  The model was first primed with Mr. Surfacer 1000 and lightly sanded.  Panel lines were hand brushed with Model Master gray and the first coat applied was a mix of Tamiya acrylics; Olive drab and Khaki drab in about a 2:1 ratio. This was sprayed on all but the under surfaces of the aircraft.  Post shading of the panels was then done with the same blend lightened about 1:1 with Tamiya Buff. 

I then cut masking tape and applied it along the sides of the fuselage to demarcate the olive from the neutral grey underside; the tail and leading edges of the wings were also masked since they were painted white on Kearby's aircraft.  After masking, the underside was sprayed with Tamiya neutral grey lightened just a tad with flat white.  Once dry, the wing edges and tail were painted with flat white after masking again to prevent overspray on the already painted surfaces.  After all that, she looked like this:

 

 

After drying overnight, everything was given a coat of Future and decals were applied.  I found a Kearby decal sheet here:

http://www.canmilair.com/proddetail.asp?prod=356

 

Although the "73" in this sheet was printed in black, I contacted the gentleman and asked if he could also print a blue "73" since some of my refs suggest that blue 73 was Kearby's bird.  The decal sheet arrive with both black and blue numbers... bruised 73s!!  I think that I then proceeded to screw up because it was suggested to overcoat the decal sheet with a gloss coat before applying.  I did so with Testors rattle can gloss, but in hindsight, applied it much too heavy.  In the end, the decals were very thick and took multiple applications of SsolvaSet to cure.  Even so, I'm not happy with the finish.  Live and learn; next time, I'll deal with very thin and fragile decals.  That said here she is with markings; those of the Kearby sheet plus a few of the stencils supplied in the kit decals.

 

 

This is Fiery Ginger after Kearby's first kills, where he downed two Japanese planes on Sept 4, 1943.  A week later he got his third, before transferring to Ginger III to become an ace.  So the model depicts Fiery Ginger between Spt 4 and Sept 11, 1943.

 

  

 

Next on the agenda, an overspray with diluted Buff/Olive Drab to blend everything together. then some additional weathering with pigments.  Thanks for reading.

Don

 

  • Member since
    September 2015
  • From: The Redwood Empire
Posted by Aaronw on Monday, February 1, 2010 8:12 PM

Ok, if it is acceptable I'd like to do a Grumman F3F-2, I just got the Special Hobby kit and one of the options is Lt Robert Galer's aircraft in 1940. He went on to become an ace over Guadalcanal in 1942.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Galer

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Spring Branch, TX
Posted by satch_ip on Monday, February 1, 2010 9:06 PM

Hans I have to tell you that I have had more fun researching stuff for this GB.  It has really got me back into the hobby.  I've probably spent 2 or 3 hundred bucks on books, decals, kits, and such.  I hope my wife doesn't read this thread! 

My first request was due to a lack of research and an incorrect reference.  Since then I have delved deeper into the AFAA site and found some cool things.  I found a pilot from Corsicana, Texas named Royal N Baker.  He was a jet ace in Korea but flew Spitfires and Thunderbolts in WWII.  I have an artists profile of his Jug but no decals and I don't have a Jug kit.  I've been researching his Spit and found several photos of 31st FG spits but I can't find a reference to his particular bird.  I'll save him for a future product as well as a passel of 31st FG spits.

I am looking at Heinz Bar's Bf 109 E as it appeared in the early summer of 1940.  Bar got his 5th kill on Aug 23 and his 10th on Sep 9th.  Academy makes that in 48th and 72nd scale.  The quarter scale is on order and i picked up the 72nd scale in Vegas on Saturday.

Hans Joachim-Marsailles also flew Emils and Hasegawa just released that kit.  It is on order too. 

My 1st AVG decals from Eagle Strike came in so I am going to enter with Monogram's P-40B with Boyington's number 21 if it's ok with you Hans.  It should be the first of multiple entries.

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Spring Branch, TX
Posted by satch_ip on Monday, February 1, 2010 9:17 PM

Wabash, I have a photo of Gentile in front of the nose of his Spit Vb in my Osprey book American Spitfire Aces of World War 2.  The caption states it is Spitfire Vb BL255/MD-T.  It has his two kill markings for his success over Dieppe in August 1942.  Hope this helps.

Satch

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Monday, February 1, 2010 11:38 PM

Don, your P-47 looks really nice, great work all around!

John

To see build logs for my models:  http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.html

 

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • From: USA California
Posted by vetteman42 on Tuesday, February 2, 2010 1:29 AM

Don that is one nice looking P-47, a well done almost finished paint job. hurry up man I want to see her finished.

Randy So many to build.......So little time

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • From: USA California
Posted by vetteman42 on Tuesday, February 2, 2010 1:37 AM

Satch_ip may I ask where you got Boyingtons decals from for the P-40 ? I would like to order them for a future build I want to do. A previous build and this group compelled me to create a before they were aces shelf in my display case I wish to add the P-40B to.

 

Randy So many to build.......So little time

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Spring Branch, TX
Posted by satch_ip on Tuesday, February 2, 2010 5:48 AM

I ordered them direct from Eagle Editions.  http://www.eagle-editions.com/

 

Satch

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Tuesday, February 2, 2010 6:04 AM

My 1st AVG decals from Eagle Strike came in so I am going to enter with Monogram's P-40B with Boyington's number 21 if it's ok with you Hans.  It should be the first of multiple entries.

Done, Satch..

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Tuesday, February 2, 2010 6:05 AM

Aaronw

Ok, if it is acceptable I'd like to do a Grumman F3F-2, I just got the Special Hobby kit and one of the options is Lt Robert Galer's aircraft in 1940. He went on to become an ace over Guadalcanal in 1942.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Galer

Done, Aaron

  • Member since
    September 2015
  • From: The Redwood Empire
Posted by Aaronw on Tuesday, February 2, 2010 11:09 AM

Great, I'll probably get started tonight, the kit is 1/72. I was rather impressed looking in the box, good looking plastic, plus some resin and PE for less than $20.

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • From: USA California
Posted by vetteman42 on Tuesday, February 2, 2010 11:37 AM

satch_ip

I ordered them direct from Eagle Editions.  http://www.eagle-editions.com/

 

Satch

Thank you Satch I just ordered them

Randy So many to build.......So little time

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Tuesday, February 2, 2010 10:43 PM

Hans I have to tell you that I have had more fun researching stuff for this GB.  It has really got me back into the hobby. 

Glad you enjoy doing research... That was one of my goals in this build, to see if some folks would be willing to do some research.  I feel one needs to know a bit about what they're building, why it was the way it was, ya know?

Since then I have delved deeper into the AFAA site and found some cool things. 

It is a great site... Believe it or not, I found some thing in there regarding my Dad's WW2 service that I didn't know (He flew a Jug as well as P-38s & P-51s.. I don't recall him ever talking about the P-47), as well as my Uncle John (Dad's brother- I had another Uncle John-Mom's brother, who was captured at Bataan), a P-39 pilot in the Cactus Air Force (I'm doing his P-39 for the Guadalcanal GB!)...

I am looking at Heinz Bar's Bf 109 E as it appeared in the early summer of 1940.  Bar got his 5th kill on Aug 23 and his 10th on Sep 9th.

Kewl.., Luftwaffe Experten (The Germans didn't use the the term, "Ace") had to have 10 or more for the title...

There's no limit on the number of entries, so enjoy your reseach, and have fun doining it!  I'm looking forward to what all of you guys come up with!

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Wednesday, February 3, 2010 11:30 AM

Weee!!!  I successfully made a replacement casting for the missing stab!!  Back to work on "Old Crow"!!

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: Louisville, KY
Posted by pordoi on Wednesday, February 3, 2010 1:31 PM

Hans von Hammer

Weee!!!  I successfully made a replacement casting for the missing stab!!  Back to work on "Old Crow"!!

 

You have much more patience than I, Hans.   Bow Down Bow Down

 

 

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Wednesday, February 3, 2010 1:34 PM

I've been casting figures and stuff like engines, gearboxes, tires, but this was my first casting of a part this thin... Hit it with casting #3...

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Melbourne, Australia
Posted by darson on Wednesday, February 3, 2010 6:22 PM

It's not much of an update but I just ordered a whole bunch of very nice resin bits and pieces for my Gabby Gabreski Spitfire Mk.IX from the good folks at Ultracast.  I have used their stuff many times before and it is superb. 

Hopefully I should be able to kick-off in a couple of weeks.

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