Weathering GB - 2/1/2011 - 1/31/2012

terry - that's some really, really great work! Makes me want to find something white and rusty so I have an excuse to mess with it! Though...I've got a Zvezda T-34 that I'm not really inclined to build up as a full tank (mainly don't want to waste friuls on it!), so I've been considering doing it up as a wreck with another tank stumbling up on it (Russian or German TBD)...could be lots of opportunity for rust and such with it there!

jbrady - sorry to hear about the F4F! Good bird to figure this stuff out on, though! I'm a bit daunted at the prospect of beating up a $50+ 109!

Yeah... thats what I thought too. I ordered another for $15. Because of the paints and glues I ordered it has to be shipped ground... I figure the end of the week.

I started an Eduard F6F 5N. With the solid paint scheme there should be some interesting weathering possibilities... very, very subtle.

Just a few more shots added the decals and finally added the wheels except one which is being retarded and will have to be beaten into submisson...lol pastels to come!

Hi Everyone,

I'm just about to get going on this build again. This is my starting point, the Tamiya 1/48 Sd Kfz 250/1 'Greif'. According to some research I've been given, it started out in Panzer Grey, and I've marked the camo pattern to be applied but never got around to doing it. Following that, the grey will need to be obscured with a slurry of desert sand (sand not paint), which I might do with powders.

Should be an interesting weathering job.

Cheers

Tony

Here's my F6F 5 N cockpit. A question in 1/48th is PE really worth the effort? Spent about 4 hours on assembly, painting, weathering, and dry brushing. I bet I spent another hour just looking for PE parts that jumped of the bench or just disapeared. The cat got the rudder pedals... I've given uip on those.

[quote user="jbrady"]

Here's my F6F 5 N cockpit. A question in 1/48th is PE really worth the effort ?.

(/quote)

IMHO - NO !!

pepper

jbrady

A question in 1/48th is PE really worth the effort? 

IMO it really depends. Makes a heck of a difference in some places, less in others. In a plane with a very round fuselage and small cockpit opening like the Hellcat, you don't see as much of the office anyway...

I really like the idea of unseen detail. Just the hint of a window or an open panel hiding some unseen or mostly obscured goodies that are rich in detail sort of excites me in a geekish way!

For me it is totally worth it but I agree sometimes the size of PE frustrates me, doesn't take much for it to pop off the tweezers and drop to the bottom of the carpet pile!

Cheers

Casper, Pepper, Doogs: Gotta agree with all of you. I painted one half of the right consloe and used the PE on the other half. There is a difference in detail but in this scale I just don't know if that difference justifies the added frustration level. I will say I really like good PE instrument panels but... a well done decal gets the same effect and some of the monogram 70's kits do as good a job with injection molding in plastic.

I'm getting way to serious about this stuff.

jbrady

I'm getting way to serious about this stuff.

I've not used PE extensively but just one time and my frustration level was so high doing so, I ultimately wound up using the model as a target for my BB gun :-) ...

I find now,  that I can make a 'good enough' set of seat belts from Tamiya tape and an IP using  paint or decals ...

I see models in these forums that have hundreds of hours invested in interiors and details, which will be hidden as soon as the fuselage is glued together or the turret is placed uipon the hull - but - this is a hobby and 'to each his own', sez mne ... ...

One of the famous model railroaders I follow has the philosophy of 'good enough' and practices the '3 foot rule', that being if the model or track or scenery look 'good enough' from 3 feet, than it's truly 'good enough' ... when you really think about it, other than for a contest or  for a photo session , almost all of the time, they sit on a shelf or in some instances, they're boxed up and stored ... so, 'good enough' is probably good enough for most of us ...

But, i digress ... again, this is a hobby and everyone should do what floats their boat ... if you want to spend hundreds of hours detailing interiors or whatnot, then please keep on detailing - if you don't, then keep on not doing so ...

But, PLEASE, all of us should keep on sharing hints, tips and tricks plus our thoughts and ideas plus our photos and plus (even) our frustrations ...

These forums are great teaching tools and I have learned tons of stuff by posting questions or progress reports ~ or ~ by telling of build problems or frustrations with materials, kits or ? ...

And with all that said, I've gotta get back to Project Reefer, take some photos to post here and then take a nap ...

pepper

What Pepper said and beautifully stated too.

I use PE sometimes but mostly for seat belt buckles and to get more of a 3D look on IPs. Most times I find the kit details with a bit of scratch building works just as well.

Well, honestly I try to aim a bit higher than the 3 foot rule, mainly because 1) IMO that's where the challenge is and 2) my builds will mostly be viewed via high resolution photography. 

BUT...I'm very selective about what gets the PE/resin treatment. I learned this after spending way too many nights detailing a Dauntless cockpit with Eduard PE:

Only to close it up and see this:

And that's before the gun deck and canopies went on! Basically the seatbelts and IP...and everything else is swallowed up and invisible.

My rule now is...focus on the focal points. Unless I'm for some reason modeling a plane upside down, you will never see me spend money on Aires or Quickboost gear bays. But I'll spring for PE interior for the right aircraft, or resin wheels or exhausts or turned brass barrels.

As for the really fiddly little PE bits...I usually don't mess with them. Or I'll give them one try and move on. They aren't that critical and they aren't worth the effort.

Doogs: How was that dauntless build? I've got that kit and I keep opening the box but I haven't gotten the nerve to start it. Some reviewers call it the best plastic kit ever but caution inexperienced builders.

jbrady

Doogs: How was that dauntless build? I've got that kit and I keep opening the box but I haven't gotten the nerve to start it. Some reviewers call it the best plastic kit ever but caution inexperienced builders.

It's a good kit, mostly, but anybody calling it the best ever is looking at it through rose-colored glasses. Several areas are needlessly over-engineered. Now...I've built other over-engineered kits (Zvezda's La-5 springs to mind), but the difference is that this kit has you attach all kinds of pieces, then attach two major subassemblies without setting up any real way to test fit as you go. I don't like going in blind like that, and ended up having to cut pieces off the IP to make everything fit.

The other thing - the kit's dive flaps SUCK. Do yourself a favor and track down the Eduard PE flaps. They're a bit daunting to build (not bad if you go slow), but they look so much better:

They're kinda my exhibit A for "here's an instance where PE is worth every penny"...

Overall, though, it's a pretty good kit, and I'll probably come back and build another at some point (though I hear that the best Dauntless out there is the Trumpy 1/32 kit...).

Thanks Doogs for the info. I will exhibit patience, and get a few more kits under my belt. The Dauntless is one of my favorite airplanes... don't know why... and I want to do it justice.

Hey Doogs, wish there was an emote for a shaking fist! Damn you Doogs!!

After I read about the armament set for the Bf 109 I ordered a set for myself, also got the resin detailed QB ammunition box, the wheel set that you ordered and I couldn't resist the resin radio set!

I wouldn't buy any of this stuff for a 1/48 but the 1/32 and larger is a special scale that I don't build that often and worth the extra detail I think. (from the discussion before)

Cheers

This is the most extreme example of "weathering" i've ever seen. Absolutely outstanding.

/forums/t/135261.aspx

Very very nice work fellas!

Jbrady, bummer about your Wildcat, but that office for the F6F looks first-rate! I am a firm believer that even if it isn't going to be seen, it's still a great way to hone one's skills.

Terry, pictures of the real thing are not allowed!! Seriously, you could write a tutorial on weathering with that level of work!

Tax, great start - I'm definitely going to be watching this build closely.

Tiger, that is one of the finest Stugs I've ever seen modeled - jaw dropping work my friend! Looks better with each update!

Doogs, excellent work on the Emil, and that Dauntless 'pit is exceptional! You seem to set the bar higher with each subsequent build.

Obligations have kept me from the bench the past few days, so I have no real progress to show on my Pfalz. Probably won't until at least thursday (which will be my first real day off in a while).

DoogsATX

Well, honestly I try to aim a bit higher than the 3 foot rule all the time, mainly because 1) IMO that's where the challenge is and 2) my builds will mostly be viewed via high resolution photography. 

My rule now is...focus on the focal points. .

As for the really fiddly little PE bits...I usually don't mess with them. Or I'll give them one try and move on. They aren't that critical and they aren't worth the effort.

I too, aim higher than the 3 foot rule, but still avoid the aftermarket items if they're not going to be seen ... and it always seems to be that the less visible the part is, the smaller it is and the better it flies off my workbench to that Great Unknown PE Resting Place ...

I think part of my issue with PE is there are so many parts that I know I'm never going to use and it seems to be a huge waste of money to me ... another issue (I have several as we all do) is the extraordinary amount of parts in modern (and expensive) kits that will never be used ...

I look at some of the fighter aircraft of today - one kit has almost 200 parts, of which maybe 90 - 100 will be used, with the rest being various forms of ordnance ... the Real McCoy can't carry all that stuff and neither can our models, yet the kit makers put it in the kits - the more parts, the higher the price ?? ...

I realize that the unused extras can go into our spare-parts boxes, but if one builds modern aircraft (which I seldom do) how many missles, laser guided bombs, dumb boms, Lantirn pods, etc. do we need in the box ? ...

Just my opinion, of course ... I love to see what everyone is doing regardless of the costs or difficulties or ? ... makes me a better modeler, for sure ... I hope that I can add something of relevance to this GB as well, as so many others already have ...

Just my 2 cents worth (and 2 centa won't buy a piece of candy anymore) ...

pepper

Guys,

I am a bit stuck at the moment. At the start of this GB i was very eager to plan in another revell German sub in 1:72 (the big *ass ones), confident i would find a bunch of them on ebay but sofar i have had little luck

I do know revell of germany discontinued both the type VIIC and VIIC/41 but usually i would see alot of them on ebay. All i see now is that Gato class one...

Will have to do either the smaller one (1:155 scale, just about 1 ft. 8inches.) or something completely different.

Richard

Hi Again:

Some clarification is in order, m'thinks ...

I'll use PE and resind if the parts are very visible - as suggested here ... I won't if they're not ...

As I said in my meanderings last night, 'to each his own' ...

Everyone should use everything and all resources available to us, whether it be a good/bad kit, decals/paint/PE/resin/referenc sources or whatever ? ...

I'm thinking that to most of us, the pleasure of the hobby is the journey taken to the end -  a finished model ... and great pleasure is taken in doing the best work we can, while learning from others, honing our skills and sharing the good, bad and ugly of modeling ...

Thanks,

pepper

It's funny, I usually feel like the filling/sanding phase is a kind of modeling purgatory that just goes on and on...but with this E-7 I blew through it in a night. Then spent last night masking and installing the windscreen and aft canopy, rigging brake lines on the landing gear, and painting the spinner. 

Tonight I'll be masking the cockpit and spraying the frames their interior color, then it's on to priming and the fun stuff!

A few pics:

The drop tank from the Cyber-Hobby E-4 and the rigged brake lines. Apologies for the shakiness.

And...the spinner. Really, really enjoying these Gunze paints. Can't wait to see what they do with the overall paint scheme!

kermit

Guys,

I am a bit stuck at the moment. At the start of this GB i was very eager to plan in another revell German sub in 1:72 (the big *ass ones), confident i would find a bunch of them on ebay but sofar i have had little luck

I do know revell of germany discontinued both the type VIIC and VIIC/41 but usually i would see alot of them on ebay. All i see now is that Gato class one...

Will have to do either the smaller one (1:155 scale, just about 1 ft. 8inches.) or something completely different.

Richard

Sorry to hear it, Richard. May I suggest tackling Revell of Germany's new Arado Ar 196? 

The kit looks fantastic (I see Zvezda's "build the internal structure" thing is becoming a trend), the price is totally right ($35 at Great Models), and oh, the weathering possibilities!

sanderson_91

jbrady:

Steve: The question I have is are you modeling a plane based on land or a carrier. Even with a high operational tempo carrier based planes were a lot cleaner thatn their land based counterparts. As for the weathering itself, remember that the ailerons and flaps are moveable surfaces dirt wouldn't accumulate heavily in those areas. I would try a darker wash around the flap aileron area to highlight them and the lighter pigments around panel lines to simulate the dust and grime you'd see on a sandy, dusty aircraft... my two cents

 

Here's a photo that I found online at wikimedia commons which is pretty much what I'm trying to get my Hellcat to resemble:

I think the pigments are getting me there, but right now look too much like dust than fading. 

Steve

So I've gotten some work done on the Hellcat - trying to get it to resemble the photo above.  Here's what I've gotten done over the weekend

I thinned Titanium White and Buff oil paint and layered  these filters on the fuselage and wings in several light coats.  I reapplied the filters to build up the layers trying to replicate the faded bleached out look.  I'm reasonably happy with the results, though the blue of the national insignia is still too dark to me.  I still need to weather the undersides and apply exhaust stains as well as add the gear doors and brake lines.  Let me know what you guys think.  Thanks!

Steve

I've been lurking around in here and keeping an eye on things and i have to say there is some absolutly superb work going on in here

Doogs, if it's ok with you i'd like to finish my Tamiya FW190 A in here, it has been started but there is still a long way to ggo on it....

Hi Guys:

Here's something that works for me on railroad cars ...

Spray the areas you want to bleach with 70% isopropyl alcohol ... if you don't like the effect you get, then spray those same areas with DullCote ... poof ! ... the bleachng disappears ...

Or overspray everything with your base coat with lots of white in it ... be sure to follow the tip you got about the elevators and ailerons ... I think the flaps may be included as well as they move up and down all the time on every flight ... p'haps less white in the overspray for them ...

Maybe the way to go is to overspray the flaps first and then add some more white to your base color to overspray the elevators and ailerons ...

pepper

PS Don't  foregt the rudder ... it also moves a lot ... less than the elevators and ailerons and more than the rudder ...

pepper kay

Hi Guys:

Here's something that works for me on railroad cars ...

Spray the areas you want to bleach with 70% isopropyl alcohol ... if you don't like the effect you get, then spray those same areas with DullCote ... poof ! ... the bleachng disappears ...

Or overspray everything with your base coat with lots of white in it ... be sure to follow the tip you got about the elevators and ailerons ... I think the flaps may be included as well as they move up and down all the time on every flight ... p'haps less white in the overspray for them ...

Maybe the way to go is to overspray the flaps first and then add some more white to your base color to overspray the elevators and ailerons ...

pepper

PS Don't  foregt the rudder ... it also moves a lot ... less than the elevators and ailerons and more than the rudder ...

Pepper - not sure I understand the 70% iso/then dullcote method. Does the ISO bleach things out?

As for the elevators, ailerons and rudder...they were fabric-covered, so tended to bleach out differently even on top of constant wear.

Steve - I agree that the insignia still look a bit too vibrant...the one that jumps out at me is the port fuselage insignia, the top red border in particular.

I think you're getting close, only thing I'd watch out for would be "anti-washing" the panel lines. May want to go back with a darker pin wash and/or post-shading to kill down the lightened panel lines...

Steve: I have to agree with pepper on the fading thing. I add about 25% of alighter color (in this case light grey to the base intermediate blue) to fade back the colors. This is the base coat before fading.

This is the first faded coat. In addition to the lighter color I thinned the mix so it was about 60% thinner and lowered the air pressure so I could mist the paint on.

The overhead shots don't show the effect on the sides. The heavier layer of lightner is on the top of the fulselage and the wings. The sides get less and the transition area between the two camo colors get even less fading. The area under the horizontal stabilizer is just about the same color as the base coat.

The nice thing about this method is that you can use the light coat to highlight individual panel areas by getting in close then you can soften the effect with a misted coat.

I like the idea of using oils as filters but I have no experience with them so I can't comment. I've seen some nice effects using oil filters.

Doogs: I found a set of Eduard dive flaps for the Dauntless... $25 at a Brit online store.

EXCELLENT UPDATS EVERYONE!

Hey guys sorry i have been quiet as of late, I started my new job on Sunday and i work between 10-12 hrs a day Sun, Mon and Tues. So after tomorrow night i will have some more updates as I will need to unwind =D

Ruddratt,

thanks man, being my 2nd real armor piece that has seen paint i am happy so far, i will get more into the weathering, but i am totally dreading the tracks, hell I'm considering the fruilmodel ones or if theres a easier better option out there i am open to it! Suggestions welcome!

Dave