The Official F-4 Phantom II Group Build 2011

LOL...  I WISH I could still paint that small...  Nice job on the burners Bockscar.  Really starting to shape up.

Rich

Wow! I still am amazed at what some of you guys do with cutting, filling, scratch-building, AM parts and so on! I'm glad you tolerate lowly OOB builders such as myself. I guess though, maybe I am a bit more than strictly OOB because I take a bit more time than some with seams, paint and so on, but still! It will be interesting to see those AB cans when they are done! I would like to do something with mine as they are smooth inside. I could spring for some Quickboost ones I saw, but I am trying to stay close to the OOB as I can due to time and budgets. I have an F-22(RoG) kit I almost tripled the cost of by adding some AM parts...had to take a break from it and just haven't got back to it yet.....

Personally I would love to get some AM detailing for my AB cans, but the FGR.2 I am building uses the Spay engine, not the J-79 like the American birds do.  And the Spay is pretty boring and featureless on the outside. lol

jimbot58

Wow! I still am amazed at what some of you guys do with cutting, filling, scratch-building, AM parts and so on! I'm glad you tolerate lowly OOB builders such as myself. I guess though, maybe I am a bit more than strictly OOB because I take a bit more time than some with seams, paint and so on, but still! It will be interesting to see those AB cans when they are done! I would like to do something with mine as they are smooth inside. I could spring for some Quickboost ones I saw, but I am trying to stay close to the OOB as I can due to time and budgets. I have an F-22(RoG) kit I almost tripled the cost of by adding some AM parts...had to take a break from it and just haven't got back to it yet.....

Hey jimbot58

I'll never paint like ElTaino. Some of us are driven irrationally to fill our lungs with hobby dust.

Ish47guy

Bockscar, I one saw a pretty simple & effective way to dress up featureless interiors of J-79 nozzles. Take thin sheet styrene & cut rectangular strips about the same dimensions as the petals on the exterior, & glue them in the same position on the inside as they are on the outside.

Blame it on Ish47guy, The more time I can put between me and decals, the better!

Here is the raw material for the afterburners, the small bits in the front were the originals before Ish47guy messed with my head:

Next here are the ends just about ready for glue:

Here are the burner cans that started this whole mess:

And here's where I hope it all 'ends' up!:

I think I've inhaled my minimum daily requirement of fine styrene dust. I have to cut the other ends ends off those glue containers, and cut out the bulkhead above. Then I put those manifolds into the glue containers and find a "transition ring" to put between the after burner and the tail feathers.

There's still Sunday!

Just checkin' in with ya'll, and there's a lot goin' on! Good stuff and it's driving me nuts that I can't work on mine at the moment. As Mr Grace would say, "You've all done very well!".

Glenn

Well, I built the adapter for the ECM pod using the Fugimi part as a guide. File, sanding sticks, razor saw, a small "T" square and the use of a digital caliper I picked up a while back at Harbor freight tools. It needs a bit of touch up once the cement sets, but it actually looks better than this photo shows. Some sprue stock makes up the base filed to fit the recess, and cut pieces of flat stock for the rest.

Fujimi has the unit centered directly over the slot where the forward fin of the Sparrow would fit.

Thanks to Berny for spotting my error before it went to much further into the build!

A major set-back tonight on the 'Geasel': Everything was going well tonight, building that pod adapter and all, and I decided to finish shooting the bottom gray. Everything went good there as well, masking, painting, etc. I still had a half cup of paint left and decided I should use it up rather than waste it: I would paint bay door, pylons, etc! When the gear bay doors came out, I realized some are MISSING!!!!! I searched the kit box, my desk top, and all the spares boxes, but no luck! The ones missing are the two doors that would open inward towards the centerline.

If you recall, I told how this kit was neglected for over 15 years, in which I took a long hiatus from the hobby, and even moved! It was a struggle to gather all the parts back together for my in-progress builds as it was a mess! I don't know if I had relocated these or not! I was real careful when I did the stripping job on the paint,  keeping small parts in a strainer when washing, and another strainer cup over the drain, just in case! I just don't remember if they were there or not!

Looks like that Italeri kit is going to be my salvation! The overall shape of the parts are good, though they lack the "bulge" that should be there for those fatter tires on this version! The doors will be built open anyway, so I think, under the circumstances, they are good enough! I won't tell anybody and swear you won't either!

jimbot58

Well, I built the adapter for the ECM pod using the Fugimi part as a guide. File, sanding sticks, razor saw, a small "T" square and the use of a digital caliper I picked up a while back at Harbor freight tools. It needs a bit of touch up once the cement sets, but it actually looks better than this photo shows. Some sprue stock makes up the base filed to fit the recess, and cut pieces of flat stock for the rest.

Fujimi has the unit centered directly over the slot where the forward fin of the Sparrow would fit.

Thanks to Berny for spotting my error before it went to much further into the build!

Once you get the sway braces on it, it will look good. 

jimbot58

When the gear bay doors came out, I realized some are MISSING!!!!! I searched the kit box, my desk top, and all the spares boxes, but no luck! The ones missing are the two doors that would open inward towards the centerline.

The doors will be built open anyway, so I think, under the circumstances, they are good enough! I won't tell anybody and swear you won't either!

Too bad about the inboard gear doors.  Oh, and tell anyone what?  I don't know what you are talking about. 

Bockscar, very impressive work on the exhaust nozzles.  They look very good. 

berny13

 

jimbot58:

 

Well, I built the adapter for the ECM pod using the Fugimi part as a guide. File, sanding sticks, razor saw, a small "T" square and the use of a digital caliper I picked up a while back at Harbor freight tools. It needs a bit of touch up once the cement sets, but it actually looks better than this photo shows. Some sprue stock makes up the base filed to fit the recess, and cut pieces of flat stock for the rest.

Fujimi has the unit centered directly over the slot where the forward fin of the Sparrow would fit.

Thanks to Berny for spotting my error before it went to much further into the build!

 

 

Once you get the sway braces on it, it will look good. 

Uh, sway braces? Now he tells me! I have no idea. I'm building something I've never seen in the dark with a hammer and a screwdriver!

Good afternoon everyone,

Rich:  Very nice job on the cockpit so far!

Jim: I am very sorry to hear that the inboard gear doors are missing.  You were on such a good roll, even overcoming the pod adapter problem.  I hope they show up soon.

George:  Your suggestion for using A+B epoxy is interesting.  Have you ever used the Squadron White putty?  If you have, do you still prefer the A+B epoxy?

Dominic:  Very nice creative work on the afterburners!

Well I spent most of yesterday reading about how to use an airbrush.  Today I felt I had enough research under my belt to start learning how to use it.  I had purchased an Iwata HP-SB Plus a few months back and got it out of the box this morning.  I also have an old airbrush that used to belong to my Dad that I inherited.  I knew it had an air hose with it and just figured it would fit on the Iwata.  Wrong!  I thought that something like air hoses would be a common universal thing.  So now I have ordered a hose to fit the Iwata and once again need to wait for something to arrive in the mail.

The older airbrush that belonged to my Dad has three different sized paint jars that use the siphon feed system.  The smallest one is about a 1 ounce jar and is missing the pickup tube.  The other two are so much larger that I would probably have to mix up about ½ an ounce for the pickup tubes to be submersed enough to work.  And what I have to paint will only need about 5 drops of paint.  As expensive as the paint is I do not want to waste it.

So I will just patiently wait for the mail, again!

Ken

jimbot58

Well, I built the adapter for the ECM pod using the Fugimi part as a guide. File, sanding sticks, razor saw, a small "T" square and the use of a digital caliper I picked up a while back at Harbor freight tools. It needs a bit of touch up once the cement sets, but it actually looks better than this photo shows. Some sprue stock makes up the base filed to fit the recess, and cut pieces of flat stock for the rest.

Fujimi has the unit centered directly over the slot where the forward fin of the Sparrow would fit.

Thanks to Berny for spotting my error before it went to much further into the build!

Ahhhhh...yessss...use The Force Jim.....

That's persnickity work, but looks like you bought it! I wonder if the sway braces look like those big black rubber bungees we used to tie down the flatbed....

Hey, I'm envious of your new digital micrometer, now I have to go and get one, and maybee some SillyPutty to boot! Right now I'm happy with the Stick'Um stuff, and it doesn't bounce when dropped.

Son Of Medicine Man

Good afternoon everyone,

Rich:  Very nice job on the cockpit so far!

Jim: I am very sorry to hear that the inboard gear doors are missing.  You were on such a good roll, even overcoming the pod adapter problem.  I hope they show up soon.

George:  Your suggestion for using A+B epoxy is interesting.  Have you ever used the Squadron White putty?  If you have, do you still prefer the A+B epoxy?

Dominic:  Very nice creative work on the afterburners!

Well I spent most of yesterday reading about how to use an airbrush.  Today I felt I had enough research under my belt to start learning how to use it.  I had purchased an Iwata HP-SB Plus a few months back and got it out of the box this morning.  I also have an old airbrush that used to belong to my Dad that I inherited.  I knew it had an air hose with it and just figured it would fit on the Iwata.  Wrong!  I thought that something like air hoses would be a common universal thing.  So now I have ordered a hose to fit the Iwata and once again need to wait for something to arrive in the mail.

The older airbrush that belonged to my Dad has three different sized paint jars that use the siphon feed system.  The smallest one is about a 1 ounce jar and is missing the pickup tube.  The other two are so much larger that I would probably have to mix up about ½ an ounce for the pickup tubes to be submersed enough to work.  And what I have to paint will only need about 5 drops of paint.  As expensive as the paint is I do not want to waste it.

So I will just patiently wait for the mail, again!

Ken

 

It's the story of our lives Ken. See, the way I figure it, if I just keep ordering stuff then there's always something arriving...it may not be what I need, but helps relieve a bit of the 'strung out' feeling, well, at least until I look at the bills....

Today, I'm attempting to put the manifolds in...persnickity Heaven...

Son Of Medicine Man

Good afternoon everyone,

Jim: I am very sorry to hear that the inboard gear doors are missing.  You were on such a good roll, even overcoming the pod adapter problem.  I hope they show up soon.

 

I did another intensive search this morning, even got down on the floor to wrestle with the Carpet Monster, but he denied any involvement. Looks like I have to use those doors from the Italeri kit...

Hi Folks.  Sorry I haven't been able to check in until now.  I had a major issue with my ISP and my email got messed up because someone else didn't pay their bill and they shut my account offby mistake..  All fixed now.

I need some advice.  I am looking at getting a different set of resin ejection seats for my FGR.2, and i need to know which of the following makers you would recommend.  Aires, Legend or Verlinden.  They all have sets in my affordable bracket.  I am tired of trying to add loops to my existing set and the detail on them is so soft, I am having trouble with painting areas.  Please let me know what you think of each of them. 

One other thing.  While parousing the eBay list I noticed something.  I found an Ht and a Q7 version of the Martin Baker seats.  I am pretty sure my FGR.2 uses the H7, but my Revell stock seats look like the Q7.  I was thinking of picking up a set for that kit too, but now I am not sure which one I need for it.

Thanks for any info.

Rich

Another weekend flew by, and I didn't get the manifolds in. Here they are, all 40 of 'em, I need them to be 9/64 wide, but most are still close to 5/32. More production line sanding...sanded the end off my thumb by accident (only an ouchy, but blood makes the effort feel so authentic)...I need to reduce each one by a slim 1/20th of it's own width.  I can fit 19 in the can, but need room for one more.Yess, just one more wayfer thinnn...

The re-line is going a bit slower than normal, I am treating the planks like a tape, so it takes longer:

Some of you guys have had your share of frustrations over the last little while, here's my little heart-breaker. This fits perfectly in the after burner can, but get this, it only has six ribs, not the requisite 7 for the J-79. I'm afraid it is going back to the styrene bone-yard:

Overall a good week and lots of activity here. I have a new appreciation for the J-79. They put that blower in the F-4,  the B-58, the Starfighter, and maybe more.

jimbot58

Uh, sway braces? Now he tells me! I have no idea. I'm building something I've never seen in the dark with a hammer and a screwdriver!

The MWA sway braces look just like the pylon sway braces only a much smaller version.  They do as their name implies.  The MWA has two jaws that lock on to the ECM pod rings and the sway braces are tightened to prevent the pod from moving.  It has for and aft sway braces.

Sometimes the ECM pod will have the sway braces molded on so all you will have to do is make sure the pod attachment points match up with the slots in the MWA.

berny13

 

jimbot58:

 

 

Uh, sway braces? Now he tells me! I have no idea. I'm building something I've never seen in the dark with a hammer and a screwdriver!

 

 

 

The MWA sway braces look just like the pylon sway braces only a much smaller version.  They do as their name implies.  The MWA has two jaws that lock on to the ECM pod rings and the sway braces are tightened to prevent the pod from moving.  It has for and aft sway braces.

Sometimes the ECM pod will have the sway braces molded on so all you will have to do is make sure the pod attachment points match up with the slots in the MWA.

Berny:

I always called those things "ejector pins" - kind'a like spitting brass. If I've got it right, those are the little arms with the bolt'n'cup at the end you see the ordinance guys tightening down with wrenches, or have I got the wrong gadget?

Bockscar

berny13:

 

jimbot58:

 

 

Uh, sway braces? Now he tells me! I have no idea. I'm building something I've never seen in the dark with a hammer and a screwdriver!

 

 

 

The MWA sway braces look just like the pylon sway braces only a much smaller version.  They do as their name implies.  The MWA has two jaws that lock on to the ECM pod rings and the sway braces are tightened to prevent the pod from moving.  It has for and aft sway braces.

Sometimes the ECM pod will have the sway braces molded on so all you will have to do is make sure the pod attachment points match up with the slots in the MWA.

 

Berny:

I always called those things "ejector pins" - kind'a like spitting brass. If I've got it right, those are the little arms with the bolt'n'cup at the end you see the ordinance guys tightening down with wrenches, or have I got the wrong gadget?

 

You got it right.  Those are sway braces. 

Sparrowhyperion

Hi Folks.  Sorry I haven't been able to check in until now.  I had a major issue with my ISP and my email got messed up because someone else didn't pay their bill and they shut my account offby mistake..  All fixed now.

 

I need some advice.  I am looking at getting a different set of resin ejection seats for my FGR.2, and i need to know which of the following makers you would recommend.  Aires, Legend or Verlinden.  They all have sets in my affordable bracket.  I am tired of trying to add loops to my existing set and the detail on them is so soft, I am having trouble with painting areas.  Please let me know what you think of each of them. 

One other thing.  While parousing the eBay list I noticed something.  I found an Ht and a Q7 version of the Martin Baker seats.  I am pretty sure my FGR.2 uses the H7, but my Revell stock seats look like the Q7.  I was thinking of picking up a set for that kit too, but now I am not sure which one I need for it.

Thanks for any info.

Rich

Hi Rich,

I do not have the set from Legend, but I do have both the Verlinden and the Aires.  Aires totally blows away Verlinden as far as crisp detail.  In fact, it borders on unbelievable.  Neither set has the loops molded in (I am presuming you are talking about the ejection pull chords).  The other thing, Verlinden has the seat belts molded into the seats and are wrong (thank you Berny for pointing out how they are supposed to look!).  If you have any other questions about them, feel free to ask.

Ken

Rich,

I forgot to mention that I am talking about the 1/48" scale set.

Ken

Thanks for the info.  I liked the Aries, I just wish they weren't so expensive.  I really need one with the ejector cords.  I notice True Details puts out a set with the loops for low cost.  I might just snag a set of those and use the loops with one of the better sets.  They really shouldn't show the oops in the image if they don't actually come with them...  Both the Aries and the Verlinden set they have on eBay show them with the loops.

Thanks again

Rich

Son Of Medicine Man

 

Sparrowhyperion:

 

Hi Folks.  Sorry I haven't been able to check in until now.  I had a major issue with my ISP and my email got messed up because someone else didn't pay their bill and they shut my account offby mistake..  All fixed now.

 

I need some advice.  I am looking at getting a different set of resin ejection seats for my FGR.2, and i need to know which of the following makers you would recommend.  Aires, Legend or Verlinden.  They all have sets in my affordable bracket.  I am tired of trying to add loops to my existing set and the detail on them is so soft, I am having trouble with painting areas.  Please let me know what you think of each of them. 

One other thing.  While parousing the eBay list I noticed something.  I found an Ht and a Q7 version of the Martin Baker seats.  I am pretty sure my FGR.2 uses the H7, but my Revell stock seats look like the Q7.  I was thinking of picking up a set for that kit too, but now I am not sure which one I need for it.

Thanks for any info.

Rich

 

 

Hi Rich,

I do not have the set from Legend, but I do have both the Verlinden and the Aires.  Aires totally blows away Verlinden as far as crisp detail.  In fact, it borders on unbelievable.  Neither set has the loops molded in (I am presuming you are talking about the ejection pull chords).  The other thing, Verlinden has the seat belts molded into the seats and are wrong (thank you Berny for pointing out how they are supposed to look!).  If you have any other questions about them, feel free to ask.

Ken

Me too.  I checked a few sites and it looks like the Aries kit has PE cords and belts.  So If I can find them cheap enough I'll snag them.  Do the kits come with 1 or 2 seats?

Rich

Son Of Medicine Man

Rich,

I forgot to mention that I am talking about the 1/48" scale set.

Ken

Hi Rich,

They do have the loops, just not molded in.  On the Aires, they are photo etched, but not in color.  Which means they are not three dimensional.   On the Verlinden, they don't show in their instructions, but I think the copper wire that comes with it is meant to be used to make the loops.  Which would make them at least three dimensional.

Ken

Sparrowhyperion

Me too.  I checked a few sites and it looks like the Aries kit has PE cords and belts.  So If I can find them cheap enough I'll snag them.  Do the kits come with 1 or 2 seats?

Rich

 

Son Of Medicine Man:

Rich,

I forgot to mention that I am talking about the 1/48" scale set.

Ken

 

For the Aires, both seats came with the cockpit set.  The Verlinden set was the "Super Detail Set" and came with both seats.

Ken

II just remembered that the Verlinden set is what I already have.  I forgot who made it.  No cords and it just doesn't look right.  Affording the kit is one thing, but it seems that every dealer I can find is gouging on the shipping.  I mean $15 to ship a package that small priority USPS???  I'll have to keep lookinf until I can get them with reasonable shipping.

Son Of Medicine Man

 

Sparrowhyperion:

 

Me too.  I checked a few sites and it looks like the Aries kit has PE cords and belts.  So If I can find them cheap enough I'll snag them.  Do the kits come with 1 or 2 seats?

Rich

 

 

Son Of Medicine Man:

Rich,

I forgot to mention that I am talking about the 1/48" scale set.

Ken

 

 

 

 

For the Aires, both seats came with the cockpit set.  The Verlinden set was the "Super Detail Set" and came with both seats.

Ken

Hello gang!

First off, now that I know what the sway braces are I was able to tackle that. I have an old F-15C kit that died a horrible death a long time ago. In the spare parts, I found some sway braces for the drop tanks. Too big you say? I cut them into three pieces using a razor blade, removed the center and cemented the outer pieces together. Came out about the right size.

Then the missing gear doors. I mentioned using the Italeri doors even though they were flat. I then had the idea to bend them around the handle of a paint brush to curve them and they actually match the doors found in my other Hasegawa kits!

Now another slight issue: When I painted the underside the gray as called for and made the edge between the top and bottom a straight line as the instructions suggested. Then I found this:

Not sure if this is a "G" but the photo shows a wavy line, which I think would make more sense. Should this be correct then? I guess back to the paint shop!

Hey jimbot,

I found a USAF tech manual from '98 titled "Exterior Finishes, Insignia & Markings Applicable to USAF Aircraft."

There's a part that refers to the underside of camo-colored jets, and I think relates to your question.  Section 5.4.b says, "The bottom color shall be brought up the sides of the fuselage to give the approximate side view appearance in accordance with the application illustration.  The line between the underbelly color and the upper surface pattern shall be an irregular, indistinct, countershaded area.  A sharp line and any regular repeating pattern such as a scallop will raise the risk of detection and compromise the overall camouflage effect."

So, if you ask me for my (uneducated & ignorant) opinion, I'd say the scalloped look on the forward part of that F-4's fuse is "wrong" (according to the tech order), and so are the kit's instructions.  I'd think an irregular, feathered edge is the way to go.  Although, I have no idea what "countershaded" means...

Hope this helps!

Cheers,

-O

jimbot58

Hello gang!

First off, now that I know what the sway braces are I was able to tackle that. I have an old F-15C kit that died a horrible death a long time ago. In the spare parts, I found some sway braces for the drop tanks. Too big you say? I cut them into three pieces using a razor blade, removed the center and cemented the outer pieces together. Came out about the right size.

Then the missing gear doors. I mentioned using the Italeri doors even though they were flat. I then had the idea to bend them around the handle of a paint brush to curve them and they actually match the doors found in my other Hasegawa kits!

Now another slight issue: When I painted the underside the gray as called for and made the edge between the top and bottom a straight line as the instructions suggested. Then I found this:

Not sure if this is a "G" but the photo shows a wavy line, which I think would make more sense. Should this be correct then? I guess back to the paint shop!

Jim,

That's actually an "E" that you're looking at, though the "G's" scheme is practically the same. The wavy line you're seeing didn't seem to be a standard thing, and I would keep things as is. Here's another pic of a late model "E" that might help cement things for you.