The Official F-4 Phantom II Group Build 2011

Bocks, if this is your first F-4 then rest assured the road smooths out ahead and there are some deligthtful builds awaiting you! I foresee a lineup of spectacular Rhinos!

Cheers, Mike/TB379

Taps88 -- welcome aboard, that should be a gorgeous build, can't wait to see her come together! Updating p1...

Cheers, Mike/TB379

Bocks, HOLLY #^%* BATMAN, does the problem extend that far back on the nose section or just the radome?  Now you have me wondering.  I'll have to go check my Revell kit to see if if the nose section is off. 

If it is just the radome than plastic stock should work on getting the correct shape.  You have more dedication than I have.  I would have given up a long time ago. 

I haven't done much work on my build the last couple of days.  Yard work has a higher priority right now or I will have a jungle to clear if I don't keep up with it.

I did find out the AM ejection seats will not fit the AM cockpit from Black Box (AKA Combat Series).  They are too wide and I would have to sand down the sides to get them to fit.  That would destroy a lot of detail if I did that.  I don't like the set that came with the cockpit set because it has the seat belts and shoulder harness molded in to the seats and they are all wrong.  I would destroy too much of the detail if I shaved them off and went with AM belts.  I am going to use the kit supplied seats and detail them.  At least they will fit the resin tub. 

I'm detailing the cockpit of my Phantom now. I'm still here.

Researching for this build is really gettting me into Vietnam-era navy birds.....I think an A-6 is in my future

Same here. I swear, these Aires Ejection Seats are going to make me go blind.  The PE parts are so thin, you can totally destroy them just trying to get them off the tree.  But it should be worth it in the end.

constructor

I'm detailing the cockpit of my Phantom now. I'm still here.

berny13

Bocks, HOLLY #^%* BATMAN, does the problem extend that far back on the nose section or just the radome?  Now you have me wondering.  I'll have to go check my Revell kit to see if if the nose section is off. 

If it is just the radome than plastic stock should work on getting the correct shape.  You have more dedication than I have.  I would have given up a long time ago. 

I haven't done much work on my build the last couple of days.  Yard work has a higher priority right now or I will have a jungle to clear if I don't keep up with it.

I did find out the AM ejection seats will not fit the AM cockpit from Black Box (AKA Combat Series).  They are too wide and I would have to sand down the sides to get them to fit.  That would destroy a lot of detail if I did that.  I don't like the set that came with the cockpit set because it has the seat belts and shoulder harness molded in to the seats and they are all wrong.  I would destroy too much of the detail if I shaved them off and went with AM belts.  I am going to use the kit supplied seats and detail them.  At least they will fit the resin tub. 

Hey Berny, the resin radome measured 33mm at the base, and that's the extra bit just behind the radome separation line. The equivalent radome separation line on my Revell was a few mm more forward than, so a slightly shorter radome. When I took that 33mm width and took the calipers down the nose they didn't snag at 33mm until 74mm or almost 3 full inches back from the tip of the radome. So if AMS Resin has got it right, I pray the newer Revell matches that width at the saw line.

Yah I wondered about your point especially for the Revell kit, I haven't taken the forward fuselage/nose section off the sprue to check where that 33mm width lands, like I said, I'm hoping right where I have to saw off the nose just back of the radome separator line.

Your comment about the AM sets not fitting the AM cockpit kinda sums up the time/accuracy dilemma. I'm going to use the newer Revell's extra set in my Flugel, they'll be the wrong ones, but will look so much better than the originals, which are completely wrong at any rate.

To your point about giving up, I sure don't want to do this project again unless it's  kit from the 30' or 40's or something from total scratch. 

By the way, the wing is still straight and the toluene worked perfectly. I use toluene (lacquer thinner) for longer drying time and a heavier weld, but downside is that sometimes the plastic is soft for days - one day in a future P-38 GB I'll talk about that little warped-wing adventure.

Thunderbolt379

Bocks, if this is your first F-4 then rest assured the road smooths out ahead and there are some deligthtful builds awaiting you! I foresee a lineup of spectacular Rhinos!

Cheers, Mike/TB379

After a detour through Alaska I finally got the kit today, and just like with the Tomcat I bought, I underestimated the size of this plane.  O well, I'm used to big planes by now

well Bocks, if you do go down that path of one of each F-4 version,,,,,I have "a few" notes made for that, lol

the part that sinks us all that go down that road,,,,we either have to pick just one of the B versions, or try to build one of each variation for each letter,,,,,it's not just F-4A to RF-4X (with side trips to Kurnass and Super Kurnass)

it's true that F-4A to RF-4X (redesig F-4E(S) ) would be a cool set,,,,,,,,but, you wouldn't want to skip all the different D's on the way,,,,,,,and that is what leads you to a "lifetime of only Phantom models"

even just the danged drones had different versions among each letter code, lol

Rex

Lol, You got me Marshall, right through the liver!

Well Rex, given my eyes are so bad, maybe I can cut a corner by only building 1/32 releases!

My reach is greater than grasp, and I'm still planning on building the kits I have on the shelf.

Berny:

" Now you have me wondering.  I'll have to go check my Revell kit to see if if the nose section is off."

I miked the nose section of my new-tool Revell just back of the radome separation, where about the un-adjusted resin part matches, and it's coming about about 32-33mm. I think with a bit of mild filling, maybe cheating with some card-stock in the bottom seam, it should fit fine. It's a bit persnickity, but you won't have the same way out over 4mm tolerances I had to deal with.

That's the last time I buy an opened kit off ebay.  Even though most of the sprues were still sealed in the bags, pretty much every piece has large scuff marks on them and the opened clear parts may be useless due to the scuff marks and scratches but I may be able to save them.  It didn't help either that the postal box the kit was shipped in was crushed. 

redraider56

That's the last time I buy an opened kit off ebay.  Even though most of the sprues were still sealed in the bags, pretty much every piece has large scuff marks on them and the opened clear parts may be useless due to the scuff marks and scratches but I may be able to save them.  It didn't help either that the postal box the kit was shipped in was crushed. 

Pledge Future floor wax will fix scuffs on the clear parts.  Just dunk them in it for a few seconds and then set the pieces on some wax paper to dry.  You'd be amazed at how the scuffs and scratches disappear.  As for the other parts.  Just some extra fine sandpaper used on the affected areas will fix it.  I get just about all of my kit's from eBay, and when I get one like that, these are what I use to get them usable again.

Rich

Rich

Yea, I'm not worried about the regular parts, they should come out fine.  Hopefully the future works too.

Hi Everyone,

I just spotted this on ebay, and I know a few of you are building an F-4F, so I thought you might be interested:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cutting-Edge-1-48-F-4F-Phantom-Special-1-CED48041-/350453428681?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5198a6f1c9 

Ken

Wow, quite a bit goin' on, ya'll! I've made a little progress with my bird, focusing in on the natural metal section in the back. I tried the Bare Metal Foil for this section. It did ok, but was way too shiny, so I hit it with some Dullcote. I also will have to trim up some of the overlap. I'll take a pic when it looks worthy, but next the next one will forego the BMF treatment.

Glenn

P.S.- Bocks': Lookin' at all the trouble you're havin', an SA-2 would be looking like a viable option for me. Keep on truckin' with it , buddy! Mike, he deserves his own badge, maybe a Squadron green putty tube with bent wings on it

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

M/TB379

GRRRRRRRR!

Yet another setback! Besides having little time to myself lately to work my hobby, stress and aggravation from job, family and dealing with money (got to love those gas prices!), then my computer dumped on me, forcing me to shell out some bucks to replace it! Then spending time to install programs, transfer files, etc. and now a setback on the "Geasel"! I have just doing bits and pieces on landing gear, bay doors, pylons and loads, etc. but I was hoping to drop some decals on my 'Geasel' real soon! I picked up the plane after being gone from home today for over 15 hours and discovered that a broken wing tip on the forward slat on the outer wing that I had repaired, now is broken again! Seems I will never get through this build!

Finding it hard to motivate myself for the time being!

Jimbot, I feel your frustration, like Scotty in The Undiscovered Country, you want to yell "I just fixed that bloody thing!" Hang in there, and the final result will be a victory!

Cheers, Mike/TB379

Son Of Medicine Man

Hi Everyone,

I just spotted this on ebay, and I know a few of you are building an F-4F, so I thought you might be interested:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cutting-Edge-1-48-F-4F-Phantom-Special-1-CED48041-/350453428681?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5198a6f1c9 

Ken

Now that's different...I like the color scheme

Finally some progress.  Although I am not 100% happy with it, the cockpit is finished.  The Aires seats are great, but the PE parts they come with are horrible.  Some are so thin that it is pretty much impossible to get them off their tree in one piece.  Even with an attempted assist from my Wife and Daughter, I was unable to remove some of them.  As a result, I decided to go with a hybrid approach and use the molded in detail straps to supplement the few pieces I was able to use from the PE tree.  The results, are in my opinion reasonable.  Let me know what you think.  Oh and yes I see the bent joystick in the back seat of the office.  I have since then corrected this.  Here's some images.

I will upload some more as soon as I have some more progress to show.

Sparrowhyperion

Finally some progress.  Although I am not 100% happy with it, the cockpit is finished.  The Aires seats are great, but the PE parts they come with are horrible.  Some are so thin that it is pretty much impossible to get them off their tree in one piece.  Even with an attempted assist from my Wife and Daughter, I was unable to remove some of them.  As a result, I decided to go with a hybrid approach and use the molded in detail straps to supplement the few pieces I was able to use from the PE tree.  The results, are in my opinion reasonable.  Let me know what you think.  Oh and yes I see the bent joystick in the back seat of the office.  I have since then corrected this.  Here's some images.

 I will upload some more as soon as I have some more progress to show.

Very nice job Rich!  Looking real fine! 

I have been experimenting with the "Sludge Wash" on my old cockpit.  It is a lot of work and takes some finesse.  As soon as I have it done to a point worth posting pics I will.

Ken

Hey Rich:

Great going Rich!  When I see the bottles it's easier to appreciate how small and persnickity the details really are. I can see the PE and have to say you are a soldier for getting the job done! Those ejection seat loops really look good!

Thanks.  I just wish my eyes and hands were as good as they werr when I was a teen. lol.  I was kind of worried about the PE ejection loops, but I think that sufficient paint made them look 3D enough.  Now that the cockpit is done and out of the way for now (unless I decide to tweak it further later on), I only have one possible issue area and that's the AM seamless intakes I got for it.  I always get really nervous when using something that requires major bone surgery on the fuselage pieces.  And there is a bit of cutting and quite a bit of puttying involved with those AM parts.  But I think it will be worth the more realistic look when you can see the turbine fans inside the intake instead of a black hole.  then there is the paint job which has me realloy nervous since it will be the most complex airbrushing project I have tried since I got the airbrush.

Rich

Bockscar

 

" alt="" onload="resizeImage(this);" />Hey Rich:

Great going Rich!  When I see the bottles it's easier to appreciate how small and persnickity the details really are. I can see the PE and have to say you are a soldier for getting the job done! Those ejection seat loops really look good!

 

 

Rich:

For me it's the painting that makes me nervous. Truth be known, I worked for three years behind a seafood counter at a huge supermarket, I once helped fillet a 150 pound Alaskan halibut (probably the last one), imagine, pure white halibut almost 4 inches thick, deep fried, with chips, okay, I'm way off topic, but sawing and cutting seems so much easier because of the repair stuff around. But man, mess up a paint job?

Yeah, you can always fill and sand, and the Mr. Tarmac really helps get you to a great surface. Like you Rich my brush hand isn't what it might have been, but like you said, those intakes will look great. Remember to leave lots of tolerance in your cuts, no point cutting too much off the first time and back filling. I like to leave a generous amount behind, up to a 1/16th if it's critical, and then gently use a scalpel or Xacto to shave the shape, then xtra fine files or rifflers to get the final dry fit. Yeah, lots of dry fitting and pencil marks in between making the surgical adjustments work for me. You may only need CA or gap-filling CA, patience and time willing.

Oh yeah, don't for get your xtra-fine razor saw - and lots of tolerance.

As for patience, I'm staring to think it is just having a positive attitude about procrastination! 

mississippivol

Glenn:

P.S.- Bocks': Lookin' at all the trouble you're havin', an SA-2 would be looking like a viable option for me. Keep on truckin' with it , buddy! Mike, he deserves his own badge, maybe a Squadron green putty tube with bent wings on it

Hey. my bro in Ohio has a big pack of M-80's with my name on it! Yeah, I could easily convert a couple of those into a scale replica SAM!

Great idea for the badge, I just gotta find a a little rhino's head to go where the top fits on....

The cutting involved is mostly removing the two thin guide strips intended to line up the kit intake parts, and the wedge shaped spacer molded into the fuselage to line up the intake distance from the fuselage.  Hard to describe.  The thing is, once cut, the kit part will no longer be able to be used and if I mess anything up, I will not be able to undo the damage because I will have a gaping 1"x1" hole in the fuselage.    Here's a scan of the instructions so you can see what I mean.

Now you see why it's making me nervous... lmao.

Rich

Bockscar

Rich:

For me it's the painting that makes me nervous. Truth be known, I worked for three years behind a seafood counter at a huge supermarket, I once helped fillet a 150 pound Alaskan halibut (probably the last one), imagine, pure white halibut almost 4 inches thick, deep fried, with chips, okay, I'm way off topic, but sawing and cutting seems so much easier because of the repair stuff around. But man, mess up a paint job?

Yeah, you can always fill and sand, and the Mr. Tarmac really helps get you to a great surface. Like you Rich my brush hand isn't what it might have been, but like you said, those intakes will look great. Remember to leave lots of tolerance in your cuts, no point cutting too much off the first time and back filling. I like to leave a generous amount behind, up to a 1/16th if it's critical, and then gently use a scalpel or Xacto to shave the shape, then xtra fine files or rifflers to get the final dry fit. Yeah, lots of dry fitting and pencil marks in between making the surgical adjustments work for me. You may only need CA or gap-filling CA, patience and time willing.

Oh yeah, don't for get your xtra-fine razor saw - and lots of tolerance.

As for patience, I'm staring to think it is just having a positive attitude about procrastination! 

Rich,

Cockpit is lookin' good! Good luck with the intake surgery. I hear it's good for another 20 horsepower!

Got a question for ya'll cuz' I'm too lazy to ask. If you fire off all your Sparrows and all but one of your Sidewinders (happened with Col Olds in a furball), which station would the last Sidewinder be on? I'm guessing the right wing, outside station?

Glenn

Good looking cockpit Rich. 

I got mine in the mail yesterday and let it soak overnight.  This morning I brushed it and have it soaking again.  I want to make sure there is no oily residue to spoil this one.