The Official F-4 Phantom II Group Build 2011

berny13

Dom, here is my old helmet that I wore when I flew.

Berny, that is just too cool!  That had to be a very wild feeling flying an F-4 Phantom!

Ken

Son Of Medicine Man

Hi Everyone,

Berny, I sent the email yesterday about your stabilators but have not heard back yet.

Here is the result of my second battle with the seat belts.  It will require some touch up paint but I am going to let the CA set overnight before I touch it.  Berny, please tell me what you think of it.

 

Ken

I didn't get the e-mail.  Seat harness looks real good.  Don't make them all look the same as each one would hang differently from the chute.

Dom, here is my old helmet that I wore when I flew.

Hi Everyone,

Berny, I sent the email yesterday about your stabilators but have not heard back yet.

Here is the result of my second battle with the seat belts.  It will require some touch up paint but I am going to let the CA set overnight before I touch it.  Berny, please tell me what you think of it.

Ken

Great images Berny, Thanks!   I wish I could find one of those helmets surplus.  lol.

Rich

BTW.  You never got back to me about the F4 Stabilators you needed.  If you can tell me what I need to get to make them for you, I will.  I have never used resin for this sort of casting.

Dom, let me know if these are OK

Hi fellows:

Today I worked with the armament, Sidwinders & Sparrows.

It was really a pita ,  but they look ok (I believe so). I´ll have to paint some minor details and apply a satin coat. Then I´ll will try to make a good attachment. Opinions will be welcome

berny13

Sorry it took so long to post the pictures I promised you Ken.  The first picture is my helmet bag.  The second is my skull cap.  I am sure HVH could explain why we had to wear them.  The third is my helmet.  That is not my helmet I used when I was on flight status.  My oldest son collects helmets for a hobby so I gave him my old one and he gave my an updated type worn at that time.  The visor cover comes off for the tented visor to protect against ther bright sun.  Very seldom did we use the sun visor as we wore sun glasses.   

I still have three good flight suits and two not so good that I use when I worked on the car or truck.  I have my flight jacket, G suit, chute harness that my son gave to me.  We didn't use the harness as the T-33A had fanny chutes and the TF-102A used back pack chutes. Most of the time we didn't even wear the G suits except when we were the target on DACT. 

I used to wear a flight suit whenever I flew the C-150 type of aircraft.  It has so many pockets it is great for flying.  You have plenty of room for maps, check lists, and anything you happen to have with you for the flight.  Yes Dom, you can even carry your lunch.           

 

Nice kit Berny:

You ever need lunch man, let me know where and when.....ummmm.....that OC was nice though.....in-spite of the Bloody Marys.....lol.....

Hi fellows:

Now decaling, oil wash and  overall satin coat finished.

I think this week it will be finished. I hope so

berny13

Son Of Medicine Man:

Hi Everyone,

I finally figured out what is going on with those seat belts!  Berny please correct me if I am wrong, but I found a picture in my "The Modern Phantom Guide" with the belts lying flat against the back seat.  I wish I could post that picture but I am sure it is copyrighted.  Anyway, in that picture you can see the small loop that fastens with a button snap.  That is what holds those belts up in the picture shown below (I circled it in yellow):

So I believe what Berny was talking about was that before the pilot arrived, these belts would be held up using these small loops so that when the pilot sat in the seat, he would not have to hunt for the belts.  I am sure that with the parachute and survival gear on it would have made it a chore if the belts were laying flat on the back of the seat and he had to fish them out.  Berny, I am sure that you knew this and it was such a common bit of knowledge about those loops for you that when looking at this picture it was very obvious to you.  I just now understand.  Eureka!!   

Ken

 

They are held up by wide elastic bands.  The belts are so long they would get in the pilots way when strapped in the seat.  They are part of the harness assembly and it is a pre flight item to make sure they are tacked up.  The pilots get very irritated if they are not tacked up.  The harness on the right you can see a better picture of the elastic bands.

Hi Berny!

Thank you for clarifying that!  From the picture that I saw in my book you can't tell that they are elastic.  But by seeing that picture and then take a look at this one, I now understand what is going on.  It will make duplicating it much easier now that I have your input!

Ken

Son Of Medicine Man

Hi Everyone,

I finally figured out what is going on with those seat belts!  Berny please correct me if I am wrong, but I found a picture in my "The Modern Phantom Guide" with the belts lying flat against the back seat.  I wish I could post that picture but I am sure it is copyrighted.  Anyway, in that picture you can see the small loop that fastens with a button snap.  That is what holds those belts up in the picture shown below (I circled it in yellow):

So I believe what Berny was talking about was that before the pilot arrived, these belts would be held up using these small loops so that when the pilot sat in the seat, he would not have to hunt for the belts.  I am sure that with the parachute and survival gear on it would have made it a chore if the belts were laying flat on the back of the seat and he had to fish them out.  Berny, I am sure that you knew this and it was such a common bit of knowledge about those loops for you that when looking at this picture it was very obvious to you.  I just now understand.  Eureka!!   

Ken

They are held up by wide elastic bands.  The belts are so long they would get in the pilots way when strapped in the seat.  They are part of the harness assembly and it is a pre flight item to make sure they are tacked up.  The pilots get very irritated if they are not tacked up.  The harness on the right you can see a better picture of the elastic bands.

Hi Everyone,

I finally figured out what is going on with those seat belts!  Berny please correct me if I am wrong, but I found a picture in my "The Modern Phantom Guide" with the belts lying flat against the back seat.  I wish I could post that picture but I am sure it is copyrighted.  Anyway, in that picture you can see the small loop that fastens with a button snap.  That is what holds those belts up in the picture shown below (I circled it in yellow):

So I believe what Berny was talking about was that before the pilot arrived, these belts would be held up using these small loops so that when the pilot sat in the seat, he would not have to hunt for the belts.  I am sure that with the parachute and survival gear on it would have made it a chore if the belts were laying flat on the back of the seat and he had to fish them out.  Berny, I am sure that you knew this and it was such a common bit of knowledge about those loops for you that when looking at this picture it was very obvious to you.  I just now understand.  Eureka!!   

Ken

berny13

Sorry it took so long to post the pictures I promised you Ken.  The first picture is my helmet bag.  The second is my skull cap.  I am sure HVH could explain why we had to wear them.  The third is my helmet.  That is not my helmet I used when I was on flight status.  My oldest son collects helmets for a hobby so I gave him my old one and he gave my an updated type worn at that time.  The visor cover comes off for the tented visor to protect against ther bright sun.  Very seldom did we use the sun visor as we wore sun glasses.   

I still have three good flight suits and two not so good that I use when I worked on the car or truck.  I have my flight jacket, G suit, chute harness that my son gave to me.  We didn't use the harness as the T-33A had fanny chutes and the TF-102A used back pack chutes. Most of the time we didn't even wear the G suits except when we were the target on DACT. 

I used to wear a flight suit whenever I flew the C-150 type of aircraft.  It has so many pockets it is great for flying.  You have plenty of room for maps, check lists, and anything you happen to have with you for the flight.  Yes Dom, you can even carry your lunch.           

 

 

 

Hi Berny,

I really like that last one.  Phantom Driver.  Way cool!!  Very good to hear from you again!

Ken

Sorry it took so long to post the pictures I promised you Ken.  The first picture is my helmet bag.  The second is my skull cap.  I am sure HVH could explain why we had to wear them.  The third is my helmet.  That is not my helmet I used when I was on flight status.  My oldest son collects helmets for a hobby so I gave him my old one and he gave my an updated type worn at that time.  The visor cover comes off for the tented visor to protect against ther bright sun.  Very seldom did we use the sun visor as we wore sun glasses.   

I still have three good flight suits and two not so good that I use when I worked on the car or truck.  I have my flight jacket, G suit, chute harness that my son gave to me.  We didn't use the harness as the T-33A had fanny chutes and the TF-102A used back pack chutes. Most of the time we didn't even wear the G suits except when we were the target on DACT. 

I used to wear a flight suit whenever I flew the C-150 type of aircraft.  It has so many pockets it is great for flying.  You have plenty of room for maps, check lists, and anything you happen to have with you for the flight.  Yes Dom, you can even carry your lunch.           

Casper the Chihuahua

Ok, almost done. Just painting up the seats (thanks for your timely post with MB seat pic, Medicine Man) then the canopies can go on.

I've also repainted the tail and will have to wait the month or so for the replacement decals to arrive. I'll post her as done when they are in place.

Cheers

Hi Casper,

Very nice job on your Phantom!!  You did a great job!     

That picture of the ejection seat was courtesy of Berny that he had posted towards the beginning of this group build.

Ken

Ok, almost done. Just painting up the seats (thanks for your timely post with MB seat pic, Medicine Man) then the canopies can go on.

I've also repainted the tail and will have to wait the month or so for the replacement decals to arrive. I'll post her as done when they are in place.

Cheers

Greetings everyone!

I am finally back to working on my Phantom.  I had given a lot of thought on how to duplicate the seat belts as shown in this picture:

Then I came up with an idea.  First, I took the Eduard photo-etch seat belts pictured here:

I snipped off one of the long seat belts (number 1 on the sheet) pictured here:

Then I took two drill bits from my pin vise set pictured here:

I taped these together as shown here:

Then I took the seat belt and wound it around the drill bits to form the loop shown in the picture of the ejection seat:

Then I removed the tape from one end of the drill bits and slide the seat belt off:

Everything was going fine until I realized that the seat belt was only painted on one side.  Here is a picture of the photo-etch set turned over.  As you can see some of the photo-etch is painted on the back side while some is not.  The seat belts are not.

So now the next move was to mask off the pieces that are painted and paint the back side of the seat belts:

I also painted the back side of the seat belt that I had already snipped off:

So now I will wait for the paint to dry and try again.  But I think it is going to come out pretty good when I am finished.

Ken

jimbot58

So far:

I know some references have the green more of an olive color, but I found a larger number of photos with this dark green. There is a difference in the sheens of the two paints because of the mixtures I followed, but that ain't gonna matter when it comes time for a gloss coat!

Hi Jim,

Looking good!   

Ken

So far:

I know some references have the green more of an olive color, but I found a larger number of photos with this dark green. There is a difference in the sheens of the two paints because of the mixtures I followed, but that ain't gonna matter when it comes time for a gloss coat!

Sparrowhyperion

 

 

 

 

Berny: I spotted a Hasegawa F-4E for around 13 bucks at Internet Hobbies and I was a bit wary of the price! I am willing to bet it is an early version.

Even if it is the early version it is still a bargen.  If it was me I would go ahead and get it. 

I gave into fear today: I decided it was too risky to try the chrome silver, so I went with a few references I found suggesting FS36320 Dark Ghost Gray. I read that most of the planes in the field quickly faded anyway to the gray anyway. Right or wrong, it is what it is now. Paint has been applied!

Plus some aggravation tonight as well, aside from the fact that this forum seems to be having a little trouble with their servers today and I keep having troubles getting it to load!

I went to mix those colors for the F and first needed a black/green mixture. Opened the green and it was goo in the bottom of the bottle. I knew I had a new bottle, only where did I put it? Finally found it. Then came the black-opened it and....you guessed it! It was a mass of rubber at the bottom of the bottle. Again a search for a back-up bottle I knew I had, which I found. (I keep a list of spare paints so I prevent buying extra.

Now on to the dark gray need: I had the black, so I opened the bottle of Gunship Gray my mix calls for and this time, there was only a small amount in the bottle and very thick! I check my list and yes I have a spare! Only the list was wrong and I can't find it in my storage area! I quit for tonight, and will go watch some of the b**b-tube!

Uhhhh....duuuuhhh.....decals??????

duuuuhhhhcallllsssss?////wazzzuppwiiiidatttt????

I've had good and bad luck with Hasegawa decals, which holds true for any brand.  Too many environmental factors affect them in different ways.  I generally put on a coat of Microscale Liquid Decal Film before I use any decals nowadays.  It's an extra step, but it works well, and makes them a lot more predictable.  I do a lot of older kits, so I really need to take that precaution.

Rich

jimbot58

 

Casper the Chihuahua:

 

Grrrr........decals!!!!

My woes on this build continue. I have used up both port side rear fin decals as they tore badly. The colourful stripes crumbled and broke, I even tried segmenting the second attempt into 3 parts but no.

So I'll have to re-mask and paint black over the damaged section. I've ordered some Phancy Phantom decals to replace the artwork. They won't exactly be correct for VF-161 but anything is better than what I haven't got! The decals in this Hasegawa kit are terrible. They take up to 5 minutes to detach from the backing sheet!

I held the Tamiya 1/32 Phantom F4-C/D today. Too expensive and nowhere to put it! comes in at a massive 2 foot length. I put it back on the shelf.

Cheers

 

 

 

Wow! That really sucks big time! It always seems something goes wrong when you have invested so much time in it. I'm surprised at this as I have always had decent luck with Hasegawa decals. Hope you have better luck with the AM decals!

Berny: I spotted a Hasegawa F-4E for around 13 bucks at Internet Hobbies and I was a bit wary of the price! I am willing to bet it is an early version.

Casper the Chihuahua

Grrrr........decals!!!!

My woes on this build continue. I have used up both port side rear fin decals as they tore badly. The colourful stripes crumbled and broke, I even tried segmenting the second attempt into 3 parts but no.

So I'll have to re-mask and paint black over the damaged section. I've ordered some Phancy Phantom decals to replace the artwork. They won't exactly be correct for VF-161 but anything is better than what I haven't got! The decals in this Hasegawa kit are terrible. They take up to 5 minutes to detach from the backing sheet!

I held the Tamiya 1/32 Phantom F4-C/D today. Too expensive and nowhere to put it! comes in at a massive 2 foot length. I put it back on the shelf.

Cheers

Wow! That really sucks big time! It always seems something goes wrong when you have invested so much time in it. I'm surprised at this as I have always had decent luck with Hasegawa decals. Hope you have better luck with the AM decals!

Berny: I spotted a Hasegawa F-4E for around 13 bucks at Internet Hobbies and I was a bit wary of the price! I am willing to bet it is an early version.

Grrrr........decals!!!!

My woes on this build continue. I have used up both port side rear fin decals as they tore badly. The colourful stripes crumbled and broke, I even tried segmenting the second attempt into 3 parts but no.

So I'll have to re-mask and paint black over the damaged section. I've ordered some Phancy Phantom decals to replace the artwork. They won't exactly be correct for VF-161 but anything is better than what I haven't got! The decals in this Hasegawa kit are terrible. They take up to 5 minutes to detach from the backing sheet!

I held the Tamiya 1/32 Phantom F4-C/D today. Too expensive and nowhere to put it! comes in at a massive 2 foot length. I put it back on the shelf.

Cheers

Well, I did some experimenting on the paint scheme for the F-4F: I did a test on my "mule" (the old Monogram A-10 I use for paint tests) and did a shoot of straight Testors Chrome Silver and another area with a mixture of 1 part C. Silver to 2 parts Light Ghost Gray (FS36231 I think? I don't have it front of me to confirm FS#) I waited over night and now just did a bit polishing with my Super-Secret Polishing Compound (otherwise known as Colgate Tooth Paste) I am very surprised with the results! The paint does not look like chrome at all! It looks like silver paint! The mixture looks more like a gloss grey and seems to have very little of the silver to it, but still retains some. I think I will most likely go the straight Chrome Silver, as the bottom is supposed to be a silver paint, not bare metal and I'm certain an overcoat of dullcoat (after decals) will give me a more weathered look. Not sure why I had problems in the past with Chrome Silver as i actually got a very glossy finish after the polish!

Jim

sidure

Bernie, really great info you are putting out today, im really enjoying the info. So Im building the 1/32 Tamiya and I have read a lot of reviews of the kit and the cockpit are is always considered its downfall. I did get a lot of aftermarket parts for the office, mostly full PE and resin seats. So how does that stand in your thinking of how accurate it will be. Also you mention the boiler plates. Although I worked around Phantoms for 6 years Im not sure what exactly you are referring to, could you give me some direction on what and where that is. Thanks in advance for any input you can provide

Steve

Boiler plates are the scab patches all over the kit.  They are so thick they would scale out to 1.5-2 inch patches.  For that reason I call them boiler plates.

The cockpit will need more than PE and seats.  There is no sidewall detail so as a mininum AM cockpit is needed to give you the sidewall, rear deck, and rear bulkhead. 

Bernie, really great info you are putting out today, im really enjoying the info. So Im building the 1/32 Tamiya and I have read a lot of reviews of the kit and the cockpit are is always considered its downfall. I did get a lot of aftermarket parts for the office, mostly full PE and resin seats. So how does that stand in your thinking of how accurate it will be. Also you mention the boiler plates. Although I worked around Phantoms for 6 years Im not sure what exactly you are referring to, could you give me some direction on what and where that is. Thanks in advance for any input you can provide

Steve

Thanks for the info.  I see your point on "talking Heads".  When I was a little kid, we went to an Air Show near Boston.  I saw an F4 there, which had just returned from the SEA Theater.  When it comes to tech and memorable cases like that, my memory is still very clear.  When I saw the F4s at the Museum, I noted some differences.  Mostly things I remember being in the Vietnam combat F4 (I think it was an E), that were not present in the museum birds.  Not to mention a lot of historican images I went through when I built your F4-E.

I would love to take a stab (pun intended) at making you a copy, but I have never done this kind of casting before.  If you could tell me what I would need, and how to do it, I am always up to trying new things.

Rich

berny13

 

Sparrowhyperion:

 

My 1/32 bird is the Revell F-4E Mig Killer kit.  The one that has decals for the 30 years of Phabulous Phantoms edition.  I could never afford a Tamyia kit in 1/32.  Way outside my budget.  If I hadn't taken a chance on a seller that only had a 90% rating on eBay, I wouldn't have the F4E.  No one else bid, and I got it for the opening bid of $5.  The box is in rough shape with split corners, but the kit was sealed in the bags and the decals are good.  I can't build it right now anyways.  I just don't have room to put it anywhere safely, and won't until we get a larger place.  And AM parts would be great, but not right now.

I agree 100% on the Testors kits.  The Italeri kits are the same mold and just as bad.  The Hasegawa kits are great.  A good compromise between the budget Monograms and the higher end Tamiyas.  Even without using AM cockpit resin and PE, they look pretty good to me.

Given all of the multitudes of variants of the basic F4, I am pretty surprised at the accuracly level of any of them.  LOL

Rich

 

 

You have the later kit and is pretty good.  If you could make a resin copy of the stabs as I need a slotted set for my F-4F to make a F-4E. 

Some "Talking Heads and "Experts?) could have given most of the kits a higher score but most wouldn't know a real Phantom if it hit them in the rear.  Most if not all have ever seen a real F-4 except in a museum and as you and I know they aren't 100% accurate.  In order to get a good evaluation is to see them in their operational state where all of the control boxes are in place, not removed because they are classified.  Museum aircraft may or may not have accurate items installed and some openings are blocked off.  Seats are stripped of explosive parts due to safety so looking at a seat will not show how the real one looked.  

Sparrowhyperion

My 1/32 bird is the Revell F-4E Mig Killer kit.  The one that has decals for the 30 years of Phabulous Phantoms edition.  I could never afford a Tamyia kit in 1/32.  Way outside my budget.  If I hadn't taken a chance on a seller that only had a 90% rating on eBay, I wouldn't have the F4E.  No one else bid, and I got it for the opening bid of $5.  The box is in rough shape with split corners, but the kit was sealed in the bags and the decals are good.  I can't build it right now anyways.  I just don't have room to put it anywhere safely, and won't until we get a larger place.  And AM parts would be great, but not right now.

I agree 100% on the Testors kits.  The Italeri kits are the same mold and just as bad.  The Hasegawa kits are great.  A good compromise between the budget Monograms and the higher end Tamiyas.  Even without using AM cockpit resin and PE, they look pretty good to me.

Given all of the multitudes of variants of the basic F4, I am pretty surprised at the accuracly level of any of them.  LOL

Rich

 

You have the later kit and is pretty good.  If you could make a resin copy of the stabs as I need a slotted set for my F-4F to make a F-4E. 

Some "Talking Heads and "Experts?) could have given most of the kits a higher score but most wouldn't know a real Phantom if it hit them in the rear.  Most if not all have ever seen a real F-4 except in a museum and as you and I know they aren't 100% accurate.  In order to get a good evaluation is to see them in their operational state where all of the control boxes are in place, not removed because they are classified.  Museum aircraft may or may not have accurate items installed and some openings are blocked off.  Seats are stripped of explosive parts due to safety so looking at a seat will not show how the real one looked.