The Official F-4 Phantom II Group Build 2011

Sparrowhyperion

The thing I like least is that the only room in my house with an air conditioner is my bedroom.  And when it gets this hot and humid, I can't do any painting.

 

Son Of Medicine Man:

 

Sparrowhyperion:

 

Well in OH today we went from the upper nineties to the mid 50s.  I don't know whether to clean the windows or get out the winter coats.

 

 

Hi Rich,

I know what you mean.  Yesterday we had a high in the upper 90s, tomorrow the forecast is calling for upper 60s for the high.  A thirty degree swing in two days!

Ken

 

Well then you are most likely loving the forecast for the remainder of this week.  Highs only in the 70s!

Ken

My simple answer to the F-4 in 1/48 scale is Hasegawa, especially the J model. I cant speak to other varients but I have built at least 10 -J's and I like them a lot. They are definetly more expensive but I think they are worth it.. Speaking of which, I went to a model contest and show and I picked up 3 Monogram F-4J's the black bunny version. I built it about 25 years ago so whats the take on this kit. I bought a ton of aftermarket decals for them since the kits were about $5 a piece. Thanks for your input in advance

Steve

Son Of Medicine Man

Remember, it is the journey that is important, not the destination.....

Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  

-O

Gosh O, after drilling fer oil in all the wrong places..........you need a break man.......but keep drilling, i saw a 1/72 kt that needs to reverse its outlook, ere.....turn those rivet nubs into rivet divets.....lol....

Hey, wait 'till you see my roughed in J-79's....lol....i'll be on that there rig pal,.....lol...

TB379

I'll definately look into those retailers of the putty. But after reading Mike Adamson's build of the Hasegawa -E, where he removed most of the raised detail and left it without scribing, I think I might take the same way, even if it is the cheap and easy way. Will the 3 tone camo I'm using on both (different schemes though) make a difference to how it looks without scribing?

Cheers

MA101

So; 

The J79's are still in process:

Cut the cans to fit, yeah for those of you turning purple waiting to inhale:

Feathers in place:

Side view, YES, they are not quite aligned ...shish.......stop shouting already....lol......:

There they are, hope they align with the intakes, used a straight edge....shish.....

Looking okay so far,

Why did i bore you with that, hey, the pot of paint is $6.99 dammit! how else you gonna know????

YES, I finally put away tanning oil and all of those hot young females just ripping at my non tanned....lol...

Put those after burner finger-sander-offers in.....chicks just waiving good-bye from the bus........okay I'm back.....

Yeah, this definitely ain't rocket science.....20 ffuffuffufffufffuuuudding segements, right, do you think the name of **** anything would actually align? Well, I thought they might be close....lol.....

Looks like ****ing Las Vegas up that *** pipe!

Apologies to the sensitive, and if you are sensitive, go ****, oh wait, this is a family channel!!!!!....lol....

Yeah, I had packing tape, adhesive lables, metal foil, all ready to line that Las Vegas pipe, and nothing would Flanigin Usefully stiCK! yikes I am actually cursing.......must be winter already, apologies to Texas.....

oh man....where's that needBeer guy........

My "F" getting ready for some paint to be thrown at it. You can see a bit of a test I did a while back on the end of the wing.

Should be an easy pattern to shoot as it is all straight lines on the bird I'm modeling. Still, I haven't really decided how to go about the underside and what is called silver/gray. Most reports call for mostly a gray with a touch of silver added. I read that most f's have faded to a light gray in the field and little silver is apparent. But which gray, I don't know. The kit calls for silver, but I have had less than good luck spraying that in the past.

By the way, the canopies are being held in place with glue stick. Hope it goes well! (And comes off well!)

That looks like hard thirsty work

Steve /Ken

It looks like Hasegawa is the way to go but wow what a list!

http://modelingmadness.com/splfeat/kr/has48d.htm

I'll be looking ...

The sun is going down, I'm drink ing Stella, making supper for the kids, then back to the workbench ...

Steve

oortiz10

Son Of Medicine Man:

Remember, it is the journey that is important, not the destination.....

 

 

Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  Are we there yet?  

-O

 

Ken

Bockscar

So; 

The J79's are still in process:

Hi Dom,

Very nice work on scratch building those J79s!!!  Nicely done!!   

Ken

jimbot58

My "F" getting ready for some paint to be thrown at it. You can see a bit of a test I did a while back on the end of the wing.

Should be an easy pattern to shoot as it is all straight lines on the bird I'm modeling. Still, I haven't really decided how to go about the underside and what is called silver/gray. Most reports call for mostly a gray with a touch of silver added. I read that most f's have faded to a light gray in the field and little silver is apparent. But which gray, I don't know. The kit calls for silver, but I have had less than good luck spraying that in the past.

By the way, the canopies are being held in place with glue stick. Hope it goes well! (And comes off well!)

Hi Jim,

Your "F" is looking good!  I know you have been doing a lot of research on the color for the underside.  I am sure you will be pretty accurate when you decide on the color.

Ken

I've now built two Hasegawa F4 kits and have one under way.  I actually prefer them a bit over the Monogram/Revell kits.  They seem to have crisper detail, and a slightly more well thought out design.  I still love the Monograms though, I have a couple in the stash still, including the Black Bunny.  I did not like the old Revell one though.  I mean the one before Revell started using the Monogram molds.  It's the one in the ai aces double kit pack.  The pack with the MIG 21 in the same box.

Rich

sidure

My simple answer to the F-4 in 1/48 scale is Hasegawa, especially the J model. I cant speak to other varients but I have built at least 10 -J's and I like them a lot. They are definetly more expensive but I think they are worth it.. Speaking of which, I went to a model contest and show and I picked up 3 Monogram F-4J's the black bunny version. I built it about 25 years ago so whats the take on this kit. I bought a ton of aftermarket decals for them since the kits were about $5 a piece. Thanks for your input in advance

Steve

jimbot58

My "F" getting ready for some paint to be thrown at it. You can see a bit of a test I did a while back on the end of the wing.

Should be an easy pattern to shoot as it is all straight lines on the bird I'm modeling. Still, I haven't really decided how to go about the underside and what is called silver/gray. Most reports call for mostly a gray with a touch of silver added. I read that most f's have faded to a light gray in the field and little silver is apparent. But which gray, I don't know. The kit calls for silver, but I have had less than good luck spraying that in the past.

By the way, the canopies are being held in place with glue stick. Hope it goes well! (And comes off well!)

And Caspers:

Hmmmm....Jim has a point....lol....

Yeah, and I was out!

Thanks Ken and Need Beer;

The original idea was to use BareMetal foil to line the cans, so I could perforate the foil and replicate the look. Problem was the foil is so thin it couldn't take all the bendig, so I tried to put the foil on packing tape first, but it doesn' let go once it touches anything, then I tried shipping lables, but they were way too thick, so then I re-dry fittted everything, and the darn pieces kept falling out or twisting inside the can like a rifle-bore....duhhhh.....byt the time I got the second one done, as you see it was past 2a.m. and I was getting a bit ornery, and I was out of beer......so apologies for ranting a bit.....

I can't complain, like Ken says, it's the process, and in spite of my plans and confidence, I am forever being challenged and humbled by the properties of simple materials.....that is, i always thought of them as being simple....lol... 

Hi Everyone,

If anyone is interested in building an EF-4C I found decals.  They are made by "Twobobs Aviation Graphics".  Their web address is http://www.twobobs.net  Do a search for "Phantom" and you will see in the results a set of decals titled "F-4C First of the Weasels".  They have them in 1/72 and 1/48.  Of course it is incorrect to say they are the first of the Weasels, but the first of the Phantom Weasels.

Ken

Hi Everyone, its been a while since I had some progress to report. Between work and being out for surgery I havent had any bench time. I took advantage of the holiday weekend to get back to my Tamiya 1/32 J. I finished off some construction on the fuselage and then went for some pre painting

At this stage of construction I decided to start the painting by doing a pre shading of the panels and hopefully main paint to follow. I will do the canopies and fiddly bits when its painted

Since these pics earlier today I got the white of the undersides painted and hope to tackle the gray soon. Thanks for looking

Steve

Ken, I saw those and that's why I was doing a bit of a search for a C in 1/72 scale. The thing is, that after I finish the F-105G, I will most likely be burnt out on SEA paint schemes. The "E" in my stash will most likely be painted in a Gray/green European theme. I didn't find a whole lot of C's and I am not sure what would have to be backdated off of other later versions.

I've got the painting done. I'm sort of happy with it, but not my neatest or best effort. I find airbrushing very light gloss colours quite challenging. Also the Alclad didn't quite perform as well as I'd hoped. It orange-peeled a couple of times.

I'm hoping the decals and a good weathering will hide some of the imperfections. I remember a comment though from someone that the airbrushing is often neater than the real plane.

Cheers

There really is no accurate kit of the F-4.  The closest 1/72 & 1/48 is the Hasagawa late kits, not the early ones.  Revell/Monogram kits of the F-4 are a close second.  The biggest draw back is the cockpits.  A little scratch building in the cockpits and you have a very good F-4.  The R/M kits of Navy/Marine Phantoms is not accurate at all as the cockpits are for the USAF Phantom.  Hasagawa late kits have the correct cockpit, except for the B/N kits.  They still have raised panel lines and the USAF style cockpits.  They retooled all of their F-4 kits except for their B/N kits.

Even the Tamiya kit of the 1/32 scale F-4 is not 100% accurate, I would have to say it is only 85%.  Still kit makers have come a long way in trying to make an accurate F-4 kit.

Below is how I would rate the F-4 Phantom kits.  It is from my own observation and does not reflect on any kit makers.  I subtract 5% for each non accurate item I know.  

Hasagawa kits

Early kits: 75%    Late kits: 85%

Monogram kits

USAF style: 80%  Navy/Marine:  70%

Revell

Early: 1/32  40% 

Late:  1/32  75%

Early:  1/72 &1/48  40%

Tamiya:  85% 

Fujimi:  Early  40%  Late  60%

Testors:  20%  

Wow!  That's pretty inaccurate.  What areas are the most inaccurate in the Hasegawa kits?  I shudder to think how bad my 1/32 Revell F4-E is....  Oh well, I got it for $5 so I suppose it's good enough at that price.

Rich

berny13

There really is no accurate kit of the F-4.  The closest is Hasagawa late kits, not the early ones.  Revell/Monogram kits of the F-4 are a close second.  The biggest draw back is the cockpits.  A little scratch building in the cockpits and you have a very good F-4.  The R/M kits of Navy/Marine Phantoms is not accurate at all as the cockpits are for the USAF Phantom.  Hasagawa late kits have the correct cockpit, except for the B/N kits.  They still have raised panel lines and the USAF style cockpits.  They retooled all of their F-4 kits except for their B/N kits.

Even the Tamiya kit of the 1/32 scale F-4 is not 100% accurate, I would have to say it is only 85%.  Still kit makers have come a long way in trying to make an accurate F-4 kit.

Below is how I would rate the F-4 Phantom kits.  It is from my own observation and does not reflect on any kit makers.  I subtract 5% for each non accurate item I know.  

Hasagawa kits

Early kits: 75%    Late kits: 80%

Monogram kits

USAF style: 75%   Navy/Marine:  65% 

Revell

Early: 1/32  40% 

Late:  1/32  80%

Early:  1/72 &1/48  40%

Tamiya:  85% 

Fujimi:  40%

Testors:  20%  

Sparrowhyperion

Wow!  That's pe     retty inaccurate.  What areas are the most inaccurate in the Hasegawa kits?  I shudder to think how bad my 1/32 Revell F4-E is....  Oh well, I got it for $5 so I suppose it's good enough at that price.

Rich

Is it the early or late F-4E?  If it is the early save it for trading.  If it is the late it can be built up into a nice kit.  Get the AM wheels and landing gear.  Get one of the AM cockpits made for the Revell kit.  Get the AM radome and you are set to go.  The Navy/Marine F-4J doesn't have any Navy parts other than the pylons to make a Navy version.  The wheels and all other parts are the same including the ciockpit.  The later kits are the only ones with the slats, so if you want to build a slatted version that is the only way to go.  The slatted wing won't fit on the Tamiya kit as then the intake won't fit.  

The Hasagawa kit early type doesn't have any cockpit side walls or rear decking garbage.  The Navy/Marine kits have the USAF style cockpits.  Only the retooled versions have the correct style cockpits.  They do include the Navy style wheels which is the only kit makers in 1/72 & 1/48 to do so.   

The Tamiya kit in 1/32 scale is by far the best in 1/32 of any F-4 kit.  Swap out the missiles on the Navy bird with the type used by the Navy   Dress up the cockpits with AM kits and sand off the boiler plate patches and the F-4C/D/E/J kits can be built up very closly resembling  a current F-4.  Even swap out the AIM-9E used on the USAF with AIM-9J's to build a later Vietnam war bird.

I will not get into the Fujimi and Testors kits as I consider them trash kit to be built only by beginners lerarning how to build. 

My 1/32 bird is the Revell F-4E Mig Killer kit.  The one that has decals for the 30 years of Phabulous Phantoms edition.  I could never afford a Tamyia kit in 1/32.  Way outside my budget.  If I hadn't taken a chance on a seller that only had a 90% rating on eBay, I wouldn't have the F4E.  No one else bid, and I got it for the opening bid of $5.  The box is in rough shape with split corners, but the kit was sealed in the bags and the decals are good.  I can't build it right now anyways.  I just don't have room to put it anywhere safely, and won't until we get a larger place.  And AM parts would be great, but not right now.

I agree 100% on the Testors kits.  The Italeri kits are the same mold and just as bad.  The Hasegawa kits are great.  A good compromise between the budget Monograms and the higher end Tamiyas.  Even without using AM cockpit resin and PE, they look pretty good to me.

Given all of the multitudes of variants of the basic F4, I am pretty surprised at the accuracly level of any of them.  LOL

Rich

berny13

 

Sparrowhyperion:

 

Wow!  That's pe     retty inaccurate.  What areas are the most inaccurate in the Hasegawa kits?  I shudder to think how bad my 1/32 Revell F4-E is....  Oh well, I got it for $5 so I suppose it's good enough at that price.

Rich

 

 

Is it the early or late F-4E?  If it is the early save it for trading.  If it is the late it can be built up into a nice kit.  Get the AM wheels and landing gear.  Get one of the AM cockpits made for the Revell kit.  Get the AM radome and you are set to go.  The Navy/Marine F-4J doesn't have any Navy parts other than the pylons to make a Navy version.  The wheels and all other parts are the same including the ciockpit.  The later kits are the only ones with the slats, so if you want to build a slatted version that is the only way to go.  The slatted wing won't fit on the Tamiya kit as then the intake won't fit.  

The Hasagawa kit early type doesn't have any cockpit side walls or rear decking garbage.  The Navy/Marine kits have the USAF style cockpits.  Only the retooled versions have the correct style cockpits.  They do include the Navy style wheels which is the only kit makers in 1/72 & 1/48 to do so.   

The Tamiya kit in 1/32 scale is by far the best in 1/32 of any F-4 kit.  Swap out the missiles on the Navy bird with the type used by the Navy   Dress up the cockpits with AM kits and sand off the boiler plate patches and the F-4C/D/E/J kits can be built up very closly resembling  a current F-4.  Even swap out the AIM-9E used on the USAF with AIM-9J's to build a later Vietnam war bird.

I will not get into the Fujimi and Testors kits as I consider them trash kit to be built only by beginners lerarning how to build. 

Sparrowhyperion

My 1/32 bird is the Revell F-4E Mig Killer kit.  The one that has decals for the 30 years of Phabulous Phantoms edition.  I could never afford a Tamyia kit in 1/32.  Way outside my budget.  If I hadn't taken a chance on a seller that only had a 90% rating on eBay, I wouldn't have the F4E.  No one else bid, and I got it for the opening bid of $5.  The box is in rough shape with split corners, but the kit was sealed in the bags and the decals are good.  I can't build it right now anyways.  I just don't have room to put it anywhere safely, and won't until we get a larger place.  And AM parts would be great, but not right now.

I agree 100% on the Testors kits.  The Italeri kits are the same mold and just as bad.  The Hasegawa kits are great.  A good compromise between the budget Monograms and the higher end Tamiyas.  Even without using AM cockpit resin and PE, they look pretty good to me.

Given all of the multitudes of variants of the basic F4, I am pretty surprised at the accuracly level of any of them.  LOL

Rich

 

You have the later kit and is pretty good.  If you could make a resin copy of the stabs as I need a slotted set for my F-4F to make a F-4E. 

Some "Talking Heads and "Experts?) could have given most of the kits a higher score but most wouldn't know a real Phantom if it hit them in the rear.  Most if not all have ever seen a real F-4 except in a museum and as you and I know they aren't 100% accurate.  In order to get a good evaluation is to see them in their operational state where all of the control boxes are in place, not removed because they are classified.  Museum aircraft may or may not have accurate items installed and some openings are blocked off.  Seats are stripped of explosive parts due to safety so looking at a seat will not show how the real one looked.  

Thanks for the info.  I see your point on "talking Heads".  When I was a little kid, we went to an Air Show near Boston.  I saw an F4 there, which had just returned from the SEA Theater.  When it comes to tech and memorable cases like that, my memory is still very clear.  When I saw the F4s at the Museum, I noted some differences.  Mostly things I remember being in the Vietnam combat F4 (I think it was an E), that were not present in the museum birds.  Not to mention a lot of historican images I went through when I built your F4-E.

I would love to take a stab (pun intended) at making you a copy, but I have never done this kind of casting before.  If you could tell me what I would need, and how to do it, I am always up to trying new things.

Rich

berny13

 

Sparrowhyperion:

 

My 1/32 bird is the Revell F-4E Mig Killer kit.  The one that has decals for the 30 years of Phabulous Phantoms edition.  I could never afford a Tamyia kit in 1/32.  Way outside my budget.  If I hadn't taken a chance on a seller that only had a 90% rating on eBay, I wouldn't have the F4E.  No one else bid, and I got it for the opening bid of $5.  The box is in rough shape with split corners, but the kit was sealed in the bags and the decals are good.  I can't build it right now anyways.  I just don't have room to put it anywhere safely, and won't until we get a larger place.  And AM parts would be great, but not right now.

I agree 100% on the Testors kits.  The Italeri kits are the same mold and just as bad.  The Hasegawa kits are great.  A good compromise between the budget Monograms and the higher end Tamiyas.  Even without using AM cockpit resin and PE, they look pretty good to me.

Given all of the multitudes of variants of the basic F4, I am pretty surprised at the accuracly level of any of them.  LOL

Rich

 

 

You have the later kit and is pretty good.  If you could make a resin copy of the stabs as I need a slotted set for my F-4F to make a F-4E. 

Some "Talking Heads and "Experts?) could have given most of the kits a higher score but most wouldn't know a real Phantom if it hit them in the rear.  Most if not all have ever seen a real F-4 except in a museum and as you and I know they aren't 100% accurate.  In order to get a good evaluation is to see them in their operational state where all of the control boxes are in place, not removed because they are classified.  Museum aircraft may or may not have accurate items installed and some openings are blocked off.  Seats are stripped of explosive parts due to safety so looking at a seat will not show how the real one looked.  

Bernie, really great info you are putting out today, im really enjoying the info. So Im building the 1/32 Tamiya and I have read a lot of reviews of the kit and the cockpit are is always considered its downfall. I did get a lot of aftermarket parts for the office, mostly full PE and resin seats. So how does that stand in your thinking of how accurate it will be. Also you mention the boiler plates. Although I worked around Phantoms for 6 years Im not sure what exactly you are referring to, could you give me some direction on what and where that is. Thanks in advance for any input you can provide

Steve

sidure

Bernie, really great info you are putting out today, im really enjoying the info. So Im building the 1/32 Tamiya and I have read a lot of reviews of the kit and the cockpit are is always considered its downfall. I did get a lot of aftermarket parts for the office, mostly full PE and resin seats. So how does that stand in your thinking of how accurate it will be. Also you mention the boiler plates. Although I worked around Phantoms for 6 years Im not sure what exactly you are referring to, could you give me some direction on what and where that is. Thanks in advance for any input you can provide

Steve

Boiler plates are the scab patches all over the kit.  They are so thick they would scale out to 1.5-2 inch patches.  For that reason I call them boiler plates.

The cockpit will need more than PE and seats.  There is no sidewall detail so as a mininum AM cockpit is needed to give you the sidewall, rear deck, and rear bulkhead. 

Well, I did some experimenting on the paint scheme for the F-4F: I did a test on my "mule" (the old Monogram A-10 I use for paint tests) and did a shoot of straight Testors Chrome Silver and another area with a mixture of 1 part C. Silver to 2 parts Light Ghost Gray (FS36231 I think? I don't have it front of me to confirm FS#) I waited over night and now just did a bit polishing with my Super-Secret Polishing Compound (otherwise known as Colgate Tooth Paste) I am very surprised with the results! The paint does not look like chrome at all! It looks like silver paint! The mixture looks more like a gloss grey and seems to have very little of the silver to it, but still retains some. I think I will most likely go the straight Chrome Silver, as the bottom is supposed to be a silver paint, not bare metal and I'm certain an overcoat of dullcoat (after decals) will give me a more weathered look. Not sure why I had problems in the past with Chrome Silver as i actually got a very glossy finish after the polish!

Jim

Grrrr........decals!!!!

My woes on this build continue. I have used up both port side rear fin decals as they tore badly. The colourful stripes crumbled and broke, I even tried segmenting the second attempt into 3 parts but no.

So I'll have to re-mask and paint black over the damaged section. I've ordered some Phancy Phantom decals to replace the artwork. They won't exactly be correct for VF-161 but anything is better than what I haven't got! The decals in this Hasegawa kit are terrible. They take up to 5 minutes to detach from the backing sheet!

I held the Tamiya 1/32 Phantom F4-C/D today. Too expensive and nowhere to put it! comes in at a massive 2 foot length. I put it back on the shelf.

Cheers