The Official F-4 Phantom II Group Build 2011

Well, the paint has been ordered, thank you everyone!  Now the wait continues......

Ken

Thank you Mike, sounds like a good plan to me!

Ken

Rich -- RAF I'm not sure about but they were 'peacetime' birds and if the RN Sea Harriers were anything to go by the peacetime colours were certainly not flat (I think!). It'll stand more research...

Ken -- wellllllll.... the standard answer is flat (and those FS paint codes are for flat paints, you can tell that by the 3 at the start) buuuuuttt... I have Osprey photo books with excellent closeups of USAF F-4s of the period and the lustre of the paint is anything but flat. My own intentions when building those subjects is to use a bright finish for decals and panel accents and a final coat mixing flat and satin for a low-sheen finish. I'm lately singing the praises of the Microscale finish coats, and the armour guys lambast their Flat as not actually being flat, so it might be an excellent starting point. Given that even a matt-painted object remains slightly reflective in strong sunlight, a low sheen on a model can emulate that to the eye.

Hope this helps, M/TB379

Ken

Here is one of my instruction sheets for a 1/72 Hasegawa F-4E with the SEA camo pattern views left/right and top/bottom with the color callouts on the right hand side.  If you have issues with clarity, PM me and I'll scan them in PDF format and email them to you.

Let me know if you need the clearer scan.

I was wondering the same thing about my RAF bird.  Any suggestions on that one?

Rich

f-4phantom

Ken,

Go flat.

Dean

Ken,

Go flat.

Dean

Thunderbolt379

Ken -- I got this one. US South East Asia camouflage Federal Standard numbers are:

• Dark Green FS 34079
• Medium Green FS 34102
• Dark Tan FS 30219
• Camouflage Gray FS 36622

Cheers, Mike/TB379

Thanks Mike!  I appreciate that.  Another question, I have seen some Phantoms with a gloss finish and others with more of a flat finish.  Which one is correct for Vietnam birds?

Ken

Ken -- I got this one. US South East Asia camouflage Federal Standard numbers are:

• Dark Green FS 34079
• Medium Green FS 34102
• Dark Tan FS 30219
• Camouflage Gray FS 36622

Cheers, Mike/TB379

I know the feeling of having to wait until your just about to crack.. :)  I just found out I ordered the wrong hose for my airbrush.  I had to RMA it for the correct one.  Now another week or so before I can get started.  I suppose I could start the cockpit assembly and painting, but I would rather wait until I can use the airbrush on some of it.  This has not been a good week.  I had my wife's keyboard go funky and I was told it was out of warranty, so I got her a brand new one on eBay and today I get an email apologizing and giving me an RMA number for a return for replacement.  Oh well, I suppose it is always good to have a spare.  Oh yeh, and the Fan controller panel on my PC pooped the bed too, another RMA I have to send off tomorrow..  I don't even wanna consider what could go next. lol

Rich

Son Of Medicine Man

Hi Everyone,

I am bummed again.  Each day I come home from work hoping that there will be a package with my kit inside waiting for me on my doorstep.  But again I am disappointed.  Maybe tomorrow?

Berny, I have a question which will not have a quick answer I am sure.  Since I am building an F-4E Vietnam version, the F-4EJ kit that I will be using will not have the colors I need to use.  Could you give me the FS numbers or point me to a good reference that has them?  I have already ordered the "Squdron F-4E Phantom II - Walk Around No. 45" but I don't have it yet and I also don't know if it will have the colors.  If I could get a heads up on it, I could go ahead and order the paint while I am still waiting for the kit to arrive.

Ken

Hi Everyone,

I am bummed again.  Each day I come home from work hoping that there will be a package with my kit inside waiting for me on my doorstep.  But again I am disappointed.  Maybe tomorrow?

Berny, I have a question which will not have a quick answer I am sure.  Since I am building an F-4E Vietnam version, the F-4EJ kit that I will be using will not have the colors I need to use.  Could you give me the FS numbers or point me to a good reference that has them?  I have already ordered the "Squdron F-4E Phantom II - Walk Around No. 45" but I don't have it yet and I also don't know if it will have the colors.  If I could get a heads up on it, I could go ahead and order the paint while I am still waiting for the kit to arrive.

Ken

Berny thanks for the advice. I'm building the F-4E. It will be a few weeks before I can get fully started on this one as I have a 1/72 scale Mirage to finish first. That will work though as I will be attending the IPMS show in Jacksonville Feb. 5th and I hope to pick up a few things for the large scale build.

1320wayne -- you certainly can join up, I'll mark up page 1 for you right away. The big Revell is a classic kit, I remember looking longingly at it nearly three decades ago but knowing I couldn't do it justice at that point, nor have anywhere to store something that size. I still hope to build some 32s!

Cheers, Mike/TB379

Thanks for the primer tip Darrin.  I might even have a can of that in my garage. 

The Tiger F-4E is grrrrreat!  Pun intended, but great nontheless.

I've been enjoying all the good info going on here.  I'm just lurking for now.  I probably won't start my F-4J until next month.  As for loadouts, the Hase weapons set I have, has a HiPeg gun pod.  I'm pretty sure that is going to be used.

Good stuff!

Cheers,

Greg

TarnShip

I agree, I think he is just being helpful, in case anyone wants or needs an ID of the pod

My AF Phantom books and articles almost all have a little post it stuck on them with "per Berny" on them

being a mostly Naval guy, it's been a big help to me to read his comments from these two group builds

Rex

 

Son Of Medicine Man:

 

 

 

Hi Mobius,

I truly believe that you are just taking Berny's comments the wrong way.  He is probably one of the most helpful people on this site.  He was not in any way trying to point out where you are wrong for the sake of pointing fingers.  One of the nice things about a group build is learning about the subject that the group is doing.  And I think Berny is one of the foremost experts on the Phantom.  He is just trying to help you.

Ken

 

Guys, just let it drop.  It looks like I stepped on someones toes when I questioned the load out.  My conception is if you are going to post something as fact you had better have documentation to prove it.  I know the F-4 isn't capable of carrying the TARPS pod, but that isn't the point.  You can load AIM-54 Phoenix missiles on an O-1 Bird Dog and say they carried them in Vietnam.        It may look kool but not very accurate.

I agree, I think he is just being helpful, in case anyone wants or needs an ID of the pod

My AF Phantom books and articles almost all have a little post it stuck on them with "per Berny" on them

being a mostly Naval guy, it's been a big help to me to read his comments from these two group builds

Rex

Son Of Medicine Man

 

 

 

Hi Mobius,

I truly believe that you are just taking Berny's comments the wrong way.  He is probably one of the most helpful people on this site.  He was not in any way trying to point out where you are wrong for the sake of pointing fingers.  One of the nice things about a group build is learning about the subject that the group is doing.  And I think Berny is one of the foremost experts on the Phantom.  He is just trying to help you.

Ken

Mobius118

perfect ill just concede to that assumption your right. there

Hi Mobius,

I truly believe that you are just taking Berny's comments the wrong way.  He is probably one of the most helpful people on this site.  He was not in any way trying to point out where you are wrong for the sake of pointing fingers.  One of the nice things about a group build is learning about the subject that the group is doing.  And I think Berny is one of the foremost experts on the Phantom.  He is just trying to help you.

Ken

perfect ill just concede to that assumption your right. there

berny13

Mobius118:

but the the right pylon is holding a camera because it is the same style ive seen with our CF188's and the left is in fact a infrared scanner. again unless Revell did no research into the model they made. i could be possible because i just realized that i actually didnt finish painting it that may look different. but my focus was on the Aircraft not the armaments.

 

I am not trying to argue with you.  From the angle it looks like an ECM pod on the right pylon.  I stated I didn"t know what was on the left.  Below is a AN/ALQ-119 ECM pod.  Post a better picture so I can get a better look at what is hanging on the right side of your jet.

 

As I said, if you could post a picture showing the right pylon, I can see what it looks like.  From the pictures you posted, that is not a TARPS pod on the pylon.  It has the forward gondola hanging below the nose which would suggest an ECM pod.  Until I can see a better detailed picture I am going on the assumption that it is an ECM pod.

oh my mistake

I prolly build backwards,,,,,,,of all the planes I do and will do,,,,,,,,I figure out the weapons load first, then figure out if there are decals for one carrying them, then make what decals I need to "pull it all into a model"

where others say "first, I start with the cockpit", I will say "first, the weapons for ZZ-xxx" and then go from there

hah, but don't I type slow, eh?

Rex

that last pic is of a TARPS pod,,,,,,only ever used on the F-14, except for some early testing of the concept on the the A-7 (and I think the A-7 Tarps test pod was a different shape)

and for me at least, it's about the weapons,,,,,,that's the whole reason for even building multiple Phantoms,,,,,,,,,so we can do the MW-1, the LGB's and the various PAVE pods, targets, flares, Igloo White, etc, and very long etc

on the subject of PAVE,,,,,there was an early one, the PAVE Sword, it's based on the SUU-11 case, with the laser in a gimble mounting in the front, but, lots of misinformation out there in print, it's labeled in one photo caption as "ALQ-119 Pave Sword",,,,,ackkkkk,,,,,,,lol,,,,,,,should be AVQ-11 PAVE Sword

but, don't mind me, I'm still plugging away at ideas for making SUU-7's , currently looking at scabbing a Matra rocket pod nose onto the back of a BLU-1 case and adding 19 hypo needles cut down for the eject tubes

hope this helps

Rex

That is a TARPS pod carried by the F-14 Tomcat.  I didn't know the RF-4 could carry one.  As for weapons, anyone loading ordinance on an F-4 would be very relevant to this group build.

http://www.fas.org/irp/program/collect/tarps.htm

http://www.anft.net/f-14/f14-detail-tarps.htm

http://www.topedge.com/alley/text/other/f14tarps.htm

couldn't find one from an F4 specifically, but this is the same Era and they were made to fit almost every aircraft. as you can see the shape and my current lack of detail on the cam could make it look like anything, and this conversation has strayed away from the whole purpose of this thread the Aircraft not the weapons.

1320wayne

So can you join in on this group build at any time? I just joined the forum and this is the perfect group build to get involved in as I have been looking for motivation to finally get started on my 1/32 scale Revell Phantom that I have had for some time. I will be using resin seats from Cam and aftermarket decals, although I don't have them in front of me at the time so I can't remember the markings off hand. I am not an expert on anything plane related so if I get started on this and do something that is inaccuarte please feel free to chime in and let me know.  Thanks.

Welcome to the FSM forum.  Are you building the F-4E or the RF-4C?  Which ever one you build, get a set of AM wheels as the kit wheels are all wrong.  Also get a set of AM landing gear struts as the kit supplied ones are not strong enough to support the completed model.  The cockpits are very basic with no side wall detail but the AM cockpits for the Revell kit are long out of production.  The AM cockpit for the Tamiya kit can be adapted to use the sidewalls and with a little work the cockpit can be built up very nice. 

So can you join in on this group build at any time? I just joined the forum and this is the perfect group build to get involved in as I have been looking for motivation to finally get started on my 1/32 scale Revell Phantom that I have had for some time. I will be using resin seats from Cam and aftermarket decals, although I don't have them in front of me at the time so I can't remember the markings off hand. I am not an expert on anything plane related so if I get started on this and do something that is inaccuarte please feel free to chime in and let me know.  Thanks.

Mobius118

they do look very similar i can see where you think its the ECM pod, and i will post a pic to show you, but the detail on the head end of the on the armaments is different it has the rotating camera head on it and it is just a single tube rather then several different pieces.

I would like to see a picture of that camera as I have never seen one.  Also could you post a picture of the pod that is loaded on the left side.  That is something that must have entered the inventory after I retired from the Air Force.  Thanks for the clarification.

The Hasegawa F-4F landed on my front porch today, and opened it to take a look. I found the same construction as my other versions, the "S", "E" and my current project, the "G", with the use of different nose, stabilators (non-slotted), upper section of the vertical tail, and other smaller parts. It provides decals for two different aircraft of the JG74, "Mölders". The first is 34+53 in an allover two tone gray (Yawn!) or 34+42 in the gray and green 'Norm 72' splinter pattern (Better!) I was a bit disappointed in that the kit is labeled as a "Limited Release" and thought perhaps they would have included something extra, such as a fret of brass parts or even weapons!  No such luck on any of that though, just the kit. The kit originally sold for around 40 bucks (I paid 20), so I was hoping.

The colors the Hasegawa kit are calling for are as follows in Mr. Color numbers:

#304 Olive Drab FS34087, and #331 Dark Seagray BS381C/638 above and #8 Silver below.

Not sure if I will eventually include it in this group build or not as I seem to have little time to sit down with the "G" and much of that time seems to be fixing broken bits, replacing missing bits and fixing mistakes on this long abandoned and abused kit! If I get somewhere with that kit, I may start the "F" as I really am attracted to that Luftwaffe scheme!

A side note here: just learned that the "F" was not equipped to use the Sparrow missiles, something I had always assumed was standard Phantom fare!

they do look very similar i can see where you think its the ECM pod, and i will post a pic to show you, but the detail on the head end of the on the armaments is different it has the rotating camera head on it and it is just a single tube rather then several different pieces.

f-4phantom

I know this picture is not good but it's the only one I have. Can anyone ID the bottom item on the TER?

Dean

As a WAG I would say it is a napalm canister without the nose cap.