The OFFICIAL Panzer III and Its Variants GB

Looking good Doogs.
Are you going to leave the road wheels of as well for the final assembly?
Thank you for sharing your progress pictures.

Jord

And I like the Spit 2 ;) 

Mjolner

Looking good Doogs.
Are you going to leave the road wheels of as well for the final assembly?
Thank you for sharing your progress pictures.

Jord

And I like the Spit 2 ;) 

Yep, the wheels are staying off until the very end. To be honest, I haven't even taken them off the sprue trees yet. I guess you could say I'm saving the really fun parts - sanding and wearing the wheels and assembling the friuls - until the end!

Mjolner:  thanks for the compliments.  I haven't had a chance to get out and work on anything since it's been roughly the same temperature here as the surface of the sun.  No AC with high heat and really high humidity don't mix with building since I have no AC in my work area. 

Should be able to work some tonight and tomorrow night since it won't be as hot.  I may just have to hijack the dining room table for a few days!  I'm going through withdraws!!!

Doogs, good luck with the wheels! I decided to bite the bullet and started working on them before I even heard about this build.  I really did a bad job on some of the return rollers, and I don't think the time I spent on it all paid off very much, but the job is done.

I think I'm gonna wait until I spray the sub assemblies with primer to post pics.  It looks terrible with all the sand marks, filled-in holes, and sliced off details (the directions have you cut off about 15 different details), but some Tamiya fine primer should make the upper hull look acceptable.

I'm building the Ausf. M . The Ausf M had provisions for  wading . The engine compartment ventilation doors on the rear hull were closed for wading and open otherwise . This kit has these doors molded separetly and they can be  positioned closed or open. To mount the doors open there is  no positive mounting point  provided . To make a better and more secure mounting of the doors open I drilled .028 dia. holes where the hinges on the hull are ........................

....................and then glued .020 dia. plastic rod on the doors .

Then i mounted the doors temporarily for the pics .

Shellback, that's gonna look really nice when it's finished, something different from the everyday Panzer III.

Mike , glad you like it .

I made the backets that the  arm on the doors attach to from .030 x .030 strip styrene . On the actual tank the arms are operated with a cable attached to these backets / arms . This is enough detail for an area on the tank that will be dificult to viem , imo .

Greetings Jord, according to references (Achtung Panzer No. 2) the Pz III Ausf. E thru L production vehicles have the hull escape hatches ... don't know about STUGs, thanks for the note. Armor86 "Dan" 

Alright, I'm building my G as a vehicle from Panzer Regiment 5, 5th Leichte Div turret #114 as marked by the Dragon Orange box release. I've got a couple questions regarding the markings. In the directions the the turret # is red with a white outline but in my Panzerkampfwagen II at War book states that Pz.Reg 5 vehicles had red outline turret #'s. Can anyone confirm this one way or the other? Next, DAK palm tree markings are supplied on the decal sheet but are not called for in the directions. Did Pz.Reg 5 vehicles have the tree markings? I'm not sure why Dragon would design a new decal sheet for the Orange box release and not have you use most of the markings.

Erik

Erik, the Panzer-Regiment 5 - which under the DAK theater were a part of the 5th Lt Div. elements, but many of the vehicles of the regiment came from the 3rd Panzer-Division and had the divisional insignia of their original formation (upside down 'Y' with two hacks 'll' on the upper right). I have several b/w photos with early elements (Feb - Apr '41) that have the 3rd Pz Div. Markings. Most all Pz III and IV would have had the DAK palm tree usually found on the front upper hull near the radio or driver position. I have several references ... possible the best one in print is 'Panzers in the Sand - The History of Panzer-Regiment 5 Vol. I and II. Volume I covers the regiment from its early formation years (1935) thru the end of 1941. The book has numerous b/w photos of panzer IIIs and how / where the crews stored / rigged their personal gear, tools, supplies, and equipment. 

Later photos (Nov. 1941) show turret markings and vehicles marked for the 21st Panzer Div. (the 'D' with line thru it) Another reference 'Rommel's Afrika Korps - El Agheila to El Alamein covers both 5th Lt, 15th and 21st Panzer Divisions, turret numbering system, markings, paint, and tables of organization and equipment. 

Panzers in North Africa - Armor at War Series (Concord Pub) has a color plate (Panzer III Ausf. G) 5th Lt Div. (Spring-Summer 1941) showing the turret numbers are painted with large white broken outline number 321 with the DAK Palm tree on the left upper hull (driver side). The overall paint DAK dark yellow with a lot of panzer grey showing through. 

Another book "Wehrmacht Panzer Divisions 1939-45" has just about every tank formation including the 10th, 15th and 21st Pz Div. illustrated with paint and unit markings. 

By the way the earlier Imperial Series kit (9032) has several unit markings / numbers than the later Cyber Hobby release ...  

1 step forward - 2 steps back.
Stage 1-3 are almost completed and I am now cleaning up the 24 road wheels - 4 attachment points each...
I was a bit frustrated with the design - I can not see the benefit of having the swing arms done as 3 part assemblies.

I guess I could have cut of the locating pin on arms 2-5 on both sides and that way the undercarriage would have been semi adjustable to the ground.

Anyway - more frustrating is that I realize that all 3 G sprue's are missing

This is tools and fender arms.
Would anyone know if these are the same in all Dragon MarkIII's?

A word off caution - in step 2 you are instructed to glue the hull extensions under the Drive Housing B13 and B14. Make sure you dry fit part P19, the front armour plate in step 4, in place while doing so - the fit is tight.

And a second word of caution - you have 12 copies of the locking plate for the torsion bars A4 but you are supposed to use B18 for the fronmost torsion bar - I did not pay attention

Jord 

Mjolner, you probably know this, but if you contact DragonUSA, they can probably get you a replacement. If it's their fault, they probably won't charge you. I recently broke a fuselage half on a Tamiya kit and called TamiyaUSA. (they only will recieve replacement orders over the phone). They charged about five bucks for it, and then shipped it to my house within the business week. I can't say if Dragon is the same, but it's worth a try. At least send them a complaint if they won't give you replacement parts. Good luck!

Thanks for all the info armor86! That's some good stuff right there.

Erik

I have seen replicas of MarkIV's belonging to 5, 5 where the insignias are red with white outline, black with white outline and then a broken white outline.
I have no reference pictures of original vehicles though.
I used to be a member on http://www.afrika-korps.com.
The site is now a paying member site but I will try to get hold of my old pals and see if they can offer some more information.

Jord

Mjolner:  just a word of caution as you proceed forward.  i haven't posted pics yet, maybe tonight, but watch out and make sure to dry fit the upper hull many many times.  in order for everything to line up just right on my G I had to remove the locating tabs, all six of them, located on the lower hull.  i think they are supposed to align with the upper hull but i never could get it to sit right with them on. 

not sure if yours will be the same but just giving you a heads up. 

everyone's looking great so far!

AceHawkDriver

Mjolner:  just a word of caution as you proceed forward.  i haven't posted pics yet, maybe tonight, but watch out and make sure to dry fit the upper hull many many times.  in order for everything to line up just right on my G I had to remove the locating tabs, all six of them, located on the lower hull.  i think they are supposed to align with the upper hull but i never could get it to sit right with them on. 

not sure if yours will be the same but just giving you a heads up. 

everyone's looking great so far!

Had the same tabs on my III Ausf. L (probably common across most Dragon Pz.III and variant kits, I'd imagine). I thought that too at first, but there is just no way to fit the fenders with those tabs in place. Once I lopped them off, the fenders (and upper hull bits) fell into place just fine.

Seems to me they are probably just mold tabs, since the lower hull is kind of out on its own. But, unlike so many other tabs, there's no reference in the manual to them or the need for their removal. Nor are they obvious removal targets upon initial inspection (as they do look like locating tabs!).

doogsATX:  yeah it was testing my patience and after what seemed like an eternity of fighting with it during dry fitting i got ticked off enough and just cut them off.  only after i had fought with them did i realize that they aren't shown in the instructions.  frustrating!

Jord- Sorry to hear about the missing sprues.  Like Mike said, give Dragon a call.  I have been hearing good things about their customer service.  Please do keep us posted...

Guys- This is an example why I enjoy Group Builds most... everybody is helping others.  

Not much from my end... still working on my Panzer IV Ausf H and several figures and I can't wait to join in August or September at latest.

Just an update before I turn in for more fun at work tomorrow.  the interior sub-assembly is complete although extremely difficult in the dry fitting when inserting the breech assembly into the upper hull.

With everything dry fitted.  i'm waiting on a Voyager Models photo etch set through the mail and from what i've seen online it looks like a lot is focused on the rear of the upper hull, hence leaving everything off until it arrives.

and what i came home to find in the mailbox today. . .

Still waiting for the other Voyager set to arrive, around the 25th and the Etchmate 3C I ordered from Micromark today for $44. 

Any comments or criticisms are welcome!

AceHD ........................Good looking build at this stage of assembly . I gotta hand it to you for being able to work with that much P.E. . The results should be cool .

                                Cleaning two-hundred track links.#$@$#@

                               Greg"Detailfreak"Rowley

detailfreak

                                Cleaning two-hundred track links.#$@$#@

                               Greg"Detailfreak"Rowley

I have that to do soon ................................

I dont know how this this happened but i put the muffler together per instructions , when i placed it against the angled rear hull plate the opening on the muffler with the one way valve inside was at an incorrect angle .  

Instead of detaching the bracket from the muffler and ruining the parts i decided to file the back of the bracket at an angle . I rub pencil lead on the surface and hold too a light  to check it for being flat . If it wasnt flat across the surface the reflected light will show it .

Fit is at the correct angle now .

Shellback

AceHD ........................Good looking build at this stage of assembly . I gotta hand it to you for being able to work with that much P.E. . The results should be cool .

thanks!  it will either be really cool or i'll have to complete my builds from a padded room somewhere.  we'll see!

ACE-  WOW!  This is alot of PE... it is going to be fun for us to follow your WIP.  Glad you are with us... don't worry we will send our Team Six to rescue you if you ever end up in a padded room. 

Greg- Cleaning those indy tracks are not exactly my favorite part either.  I bet your beard has grown a feet longer because of this. 

ShellBack- I have to say that I admire your determination to make your models as accurate as possible like fixing the muffler.  Now everybody here knows what to do if we ever encounter same inaccuracy.  Looks like we all owe you a ...

AceHawkDriver,
Thanks for the heads up, very much appreciated
I am thinking about changing Dragons build sequence slightly but I am nor sure that it is doable.
I would like to put the upper hull in place on top of the main tube moving from front to back and then slide the fenders in place under the rest.
Would you agree with that approach?

Jord

Mjolner

AceHawkDriver,
Thanks for the heads up, very much appreciated
I am thinking about changing Dragons build sequence slightly but I am nor sure that it is doable.
I would like to put the upper hull in place on top of the main tube moving from front to back and then slide the fenders in place under the rest.
Would you agree with that approach?

Jord

Not a problem.  I just know how frustrating it was for me to fool around with those things, get mad enough to cut them off, and then realize that the hour that I spent fighting them was wasted since they were supposed to be removed. 

I changed Dragon's build sequence for my own personal preference.  Dragon would have you attach all of the detail items to the three separate parts of the upper hull and THEN piece the hull together.  I found, for me at least, that if I had fit issues along any of those seams the detail would probably be knocked off. 

Instead I used the lower hull as a jig, and like doogsATX said, once those tabs are removed everything fits pretty snug.  I started at the front armor plate (with the 30mm plate added) and placed it in the lower hull as a starting point.  I then aligned the fighting compartment to the front armor plate (when applying your cement try and only apply it along the top of the seam and not the sides or it will cement it to the lower hull).  Then moved to the rear deck.  Hopefully from the picture below you can see how my process took place. 

What I was going for was simply two halves of the hull with the fenders being the third portion.  Just make sure to align everything really well, watch your cement placement, and remove the upper hull portions BEFORE the cement fully cures.  It took a little longer than Dragon's process but with some careful work it made more sense to me.  Now I can add details without the fear (mostly) of knocking them off.

Hope it helps!  (sorry for the long post!)

Mjolner

AceHawkDriver,
Thanks for the heads up, very much appreciated
I am thinking about changing Dragons build sequence slightly but I am nor sure that it is doable.
I would like to put the upper hull in place on top of the main tube moving from front to back and then slide the fenders in place under the rest.
Would you agree with that approach?

Jord

I agree 100% with AceHawkDriver's approach to building up the major assemblies before adding all the detail bits. It's exactly what I'm doing with this build, with the sole exception of things that are easier to install beforehand (i.e. things that I can hit with Tenax from the inside). And with my spaced armor, I'm facing the prospect of having to paint the tank (at least up through panzergrau) before final assembly, since I don't trust my airbrushing skills to actually get inside those spaced armor assemblies. That'll be fun.

But back to the topic at hand...I don't think you can attach the upper hull and THEN add the fenders. I'd have to go back and fuss with it, but I'm pretty sure that the upper hull, at least on the Pz.III I'm building, actually sits on top of the fenders in a few places. Well, not the fenders proper, but some of their attachment points.

The short term solution to the missing G-Sprues in my StuH #6454 (it is actually 5 sprue's that are missing);

Dragon StuG III Ausf.G Early production # 6320.

The 2 kits are almost identical, the main difference is the P sprue in the StuH with the Zimmerit parts and the gun.
But 6454 actually has all parts to build the kit with the 7,5 cm gun instead of the 10,5.
Now that I have both kits in front of me I realize that I suddenly have a number of options.
I can mix and match pretty much as I want and build at least 5 different version in 2 instances  

Log:
Not completely happy with the zimmerit on the fighting compartment.
I guess this is a limitation in the mould process when working with pre-zimmed parts.


There is a joint between 2 panels, the upper circle, that needs to be filled and sanded.
Not an ideal area to work in.

There is a very visible seem, the lower circle, between the superstructure and the side panel.
This seem needs to be filled and then - somehow - I need to recreate the Waffel pattern without ruining what is already there.
I am looking forward to it.

Questions:
What would you recommend for the interior colours?


How do you create weld seems?

Jord

                        There have been a few threads written here about the assembly of dragons stug smart kit.I have built three or four,and the mating of the upper to the lower is an issue ,especially if you have attached the roof and the little cossbar at the main gun opening.It can be done with the upper assembled but is tricky and the risk of damage is there also.

                       As for the track cleaning ,fifty or so done one hundred-fifty to go!!

                                                                        Greg"Detailfreak"Rowley