ARMOR - Towed Gun Group Build (ends 7/1/04)

phroosh. Anything they could get their hands on!

Usually a large truck like a Mercedes, Magrias or Opel (the Italeri Blitz would be okay). Halftracks seem to be used for transporting AT guns rather than artillery, of course exceptions did exist.

QUOTE: Originally posted by petbat phroosh. Anything they could get their hands on! Usually a large truck like a Mercedes, Magrias or Opel (the Italeri Blitz would be okay). Halftracks seem to be used for transporting AT guns rather than artillery, of course exceptions did exist.

Yeah, I think that's right. I think they did use the SdKfZ 11 fairly regularly to haul the SiG33, though, as it was a pretty heavy gun for its intended purpose, which was a rather awkward situation for all involved. But horses and trucks were used all the time too.

Thanks for the info!

Do you think the Steyr RSO would have been used at all? For some reason I think not, but I do like the look of them...
If not, Italeri make Blitzes and Mercedes for a reasonable amount, so they could be an option.

The Italeri Opel Blitz, Mercedes, and Maultier are all fairly nice kits at very reasonable prices. If you're down to those three, you won't be disappointed

QUOTE: Originally posted by phroosh Thanks for the info! Do you think the Steyr RSO would have been used at all? For some reason I think not, but I do like the look of them... If not, Italeri make Blitzes and Mercedes for a reasonable amount, so they could be an option.

I don't see why not. The primary use of the RSO was as a prime mover for towed gunfs. If I had to choose one vehicle though, I think I'ld go with the SdKfz 11. I think AFV Club makes one.

RSO only had a tow rating of 2 tonnes (1.8 tons) and was used to tow lighter field pieces like the nebelwerfer and Pak 40, etc, mainly in Russia where the mud made tracked movers indispensible. The Sig 33 would be too heavy for it.

If you want to go halftrack, the SdKfz 11 as recommended already is a great choice to partner the Sig 33 (AFV club make an early and late 11) as it was rated at 2.72 tonnes (3 tons), and towed the leFH 18 105mm field pieces easily. Just make sure you don't get the SdKfz 11 that is fitted out for use as a nebelwerfer support vehicle!!!

Thanks Petbat!

I checked out the Sdkfz 11's today at the LHS. They look good, but I mught just have to see how the budget is going in April! Checked out a couple of the Italeri truck kits, and they were probably a bit more realistically priced. Would be nice to do something other than a half, track; I have made several, am making one now, and have two planned! I should really branch out a bit!!!

http://www.modellbrno.cz/download3/Sdkfz.%2011.jpg
nice pick of the sdkfz from AFV towing a field artillery piece.

I'm still (somewhat) patiently waiting for my ICM kit. Stupid allanger charged my credit card, so at least I know money is out of my pocket. Now if only I had the kit...
:)

QUOTE: Originally posted by petbat RSO only had a tow rating of 2 tonnes (1.8 tons) and was used to tow lighter field pieces like the nebelwerfer and Pak 40, etc, mainly in Russia where the mud made tracked movers indispensible. The Sig 33 would be too heavy for it.

Well, the SIG 33 was around that weight -- though in the upper end. It weighed a little less than 2 tons. I don't think the RSO would have had a lot of trouble pulling it., but the better vehicle would be the SdKfZ 11. I'll bet the RSO was put into service towing the SiG33 though -- the Germans made more RSO's than they did SdKfZ 11's (not including Hanomag's of course).

Sorry everyone,

I'm going to have to watch this one from the side lines.

I thought I could participate, but things at work are not going to allow me to commit.

Best of luck to everyone, and have a great build!!!

Latch,
remember, despite the growing post count and the itchiness of the members,
we don't start for anoher month!

so, who knows?

ed.

Thanks for the pic Zokissima.

Are AFV club kits good? If you guys think they are I might put away the pennys and go for the Sdkfz 11, as I have not tried them or Allans, who make the Sig 33. The Sdkfz 11 goes for about $50 Australian, which is comparable to Dragon, and less than Tamiya. The Italeri truck kits go for around half that.

Thoughts anyone?

Matt

AFV Club are getting better with each kit they bring out
ive got the Sd.Kfz 11 late and its a joy to build and ive just picked up the Pak 43/41 and it looks great with its pe shaped PE sheild and metal barrel
heres my Sd.Kfz 11 (i need to finish it)


good luck on all your group builds
ive gotto get my Panther done before i get into any more group builds

I have slight dilemma! I will be finishing the 25pdr/FGT for the build but will be doing another combo as well. So here's the dilemma
I have an SdKfz 251/1 (Old Tamiya Ausf. C ?) and a Tamiya 250/9 to mate with either a 20mm Flakvierling or Pak 40/L46, 75mm. I think the 250/flak would make an excellent looking combo (marked for an infantry AA unit) but there would be no room for the flak crew (I could add the Kubel for crew transport) and no flak crew. I am thinking of an Italy setting and was wondering if this would be reasonably accurate, was the 250 in use in Italy? should I just use the 251? should I pull my hair out? should I stop trying creativity and go buy the Horch/pak combo?

AAAUUUUGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe I should hook the Pak to an M2 halftrack

I've only built one kit by AFV, and it was great fun to build. I haven't heard anything bad about the sdkfz 11. I know what you mean about the prices. Italeri IS fully half the price of either the tamiya or afv equivs, so it's fully up to you. I've built far more italeri, simply because the price IS quite a determining factor for me. They're not bad kits. I really enjoyed the opel maultier

just a thought, but if I do join(probably will but I have to get a gun first-or just use a Flak 38 I already had, but.. for the adventurous one
but one of those mosters from world war one-like the ones where a guy could fit down the barrel, and a shell, on its mobile carrier could be lobbed like 18 miles
or
try
atomic annie

QUOTE: Originally posted by claymore68 I have slight dilemma! I will be finishing the 25pdr/FGT for the build but will be doing another combo as well. So here's the dilemma I have an SdKfz 251/1 (Old Tamiya Ausf. C ?) and a Tamiya 250/9 to mate with either a 20mm Flakvierling or Pak 40/L46, 75mm. I think the 250/flak would make an excellent looking combo (marked for an infantry AA unit) but there would be no room for the flak crew (I could add the Kubel for crew transport) and no flak crew. I am thinking of an Italy setting and was wondering if this would be reasonably accurate, was the 250 in use in Italy? should I just use the 251? should I pull my hair out? should I stop trying creativity and go buy the Horch/pak combo? AAAUUUUGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe I should hook the Pak to an M2 halftrack

As far as I know, the Sdkfz 250/9 was a replacement for the Sdkfz 222/223 armoured cars and was used for reconaisance almost exclusively. The tough conditions on the eastern front rendered the armoured cars unusable, so a tracked vehicle was required. A Sdkfz 251 towing a Pak 40 on the other hand is a likely scenario on any front. I'm not sure that the 250/9 would have towed either. I am definitely not sure though!

Matt

QUOTE: Originally posted by phroosh As far as I know, the Sdkfz 250/9 was a replacement for the Sdkfz 222/223 armoured cars and was used for reconaisance almost exclusively. The tough conditions on the eastern front rendered the armoured cars unusable, so a tracked vehicle was required. A Sdkfz 251 towing a Pak 40 on the other hand is a likely scenario on any front. I'm not sure that the 250/9 would have towed either. I am definitely not sure though! Matt

That's correct according to my info too, I just really like the 250/9 (Alte) and it's 20mm armament would match the flak 38.
I'm pretty set on the 251/1 and Pak 40. The Pak 40 comes with a crew and if I decide to do it in tow they should be easy to modify to a sitting position.

Great pic Jon. That does look like an intriguing kit. I'm still holding out for AFV's Pak 40. It's supposed to come out in April. If I can't wait it will be a hard decision. I really want to build a gun, something different. However, there are a lot of half tracks and trucks out there. Anyone building Tamiya's Deuce and a half? Isn't Dragon and AFV coming out with a 251/1?

Well, I wanted to bypass this 'cause my project list is too long now, but ....
I have a Sovereign 2-pounder, but just couldn't wait for the build & thought that would get me off the hook, but .....
Yesterday while innocently walking an OHS (other hobby shop vs LHS), one of those AFV M-59 155's latched onto my arm & wouldn't let go, so I guess I have to do it.
Now I've got till the 15th to figure out how I want to do it & gather any other stuff needed.

QUOTE: Originally posted by tigerman [Anyone building Tamiya's Deuce and a half? Isn't Dragon and AFV coming out with a 251/1?

Waiting for someone like AFV Club to produce a US field piece worth hanging on the back of my 2 1/2.

DML's 251/1 Ausf C is already out. It is the later welded version and looks like a great kit. One of the guys in my club brought the unmade one to our meeting last Saturday. Comes with a heap of extra's for grunts including a pair of boots, uniform jacket and coat to drape on the seats or floor. It comes with a driver and some figures with their equipment.

They have moulded the gun slings to the guns for the 'fighting' figures (MP40 and Carbine) but straps are a little heavy. Carbines for racks in the vehicle are strapless. The stick grenades also look a little overscale. After looking at it, expect to see other versions in the future.

AFV Club have advertised the release of an Ausf C as well, and have included a colour flyer in the new Pak 43/41 88mm kit, but I don't know if it will be a bolted or welded version. Guess they were both trying to supercede the old inaccurate Tamiya Ausf C offering, but hey a decent Ausf A or B for the early war blitzkrieg period may have won them more fans, as the only one of that era I have seen was (Nichimo?) a shocker.

ive got the new Dragon catalouge and they have a
Sd.Kfz. 251/1 Ausf A listed and
Sd.Kfz. 251/10 3.7cm Pak
Sd.Kfz. 251/6 Ausf C Command vehicle
and Sd.Kfz. 252 ammo transporter with ammo trailer

Thanks for the scoop Jon.

Would have thought the 251/2 Mortar carrier or 251/7 engineer vehicle would have been easy for them, just the mortar and a few rounds or the side brackets and assault bridge (and a few bits and pieces for the inside) respectively.

I want a 251/17 (2cm flak) luftwaffe version (the one with the drop down sides) but as usual I am dreaming (just like the dream of a mainstream manufacturer producing an affordable Archer, Sexton, Comet, etc)

Wonder which gun shield they will use for the 251/10....probably the full shield from their 3.7mm kit. Be a nice gesture to have the lowered or half shields as options.

Hmmmmm. Somebody's startin early.....

I'm really itching to finish with the M1 GB to start this one. It'll definitely present a nice change from the modern armour I"ve been building the last little while.

I am in! Can't decide between German Flak 36 37, or 105 Howitzer.
John

QUOTE: Originally posted by petbat Waiting for someone like AFV Club to produce a US field piece worth hanging on the back of my 2 1/2.

The old Italeri 105mm howitzer is actually a nice enough little kit, but I know what you mean. The deuce and a half that was assigned to haul guns was the "short jimmy" with the short wheelbase, but I'm sure regular trucks pulled guns as well.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Captain Caveman AFV Club are getting better with each kit they bring out ive got the Sd.Kfz 11 late and its a joy to build and ive just picked up the Pak 43/41 and it looks great with its pe shaped PE sheild and metal barrel heres my Sd.Kfz 11 (i need to finish it)

Hey, that's a really nice representation of the very plain late cab. Looks like it's coming along very nicely!

QUOTE: good luck on all your group builds ive gotto get my Panther done before i get into any more group builds

Don't I know it!!!

QUOTE: Originally posted by johnpo I am in! Can't decide between German Flak 36 37, or 105 Howitzer. John

I built the Tamiya Flak 36/37 the not long ago and found it quite enjoyable. Very nice OOB but I am sure it could be improved if you were that way inclined. Comes with 9 figures and a motorcycle too.

Matt

Found out what happened to my ICM kit. DIDN"T GET SENT OUT YET!! I'm royally pi$$3d off. Allanger CHARGED my stupid credit card, but didn't have my province, which is BS, cuz I have the confirmation clearly stating my address. I'm very very very angry.
Just add one more to the list of bad experiences I've had buying $#it off the internet.