First Annual Berny Memorial Group Build

Do yourself a big favor.  Get a spare battery and memory card asap.  You'll need them...

jimbot58

WHAT?????? I have to charge it for 4 hours before I can play with it? This is unfair!

Arggh...  I had a small hiccup today trying out the Hotmail Outlook connector.  I lost every single email I had from 9/11 up until this morning...  ARGH!!!!!!!

Sparrowhyperion

Arggh...  I had a small hiccup today trying out the Hotmail Outlook connector.  I lost every single email I had from 9/11 up until this morning...  ARGH!!!!!!!

Ouch!  That sucks!

First attempt:

My Rhinos (so far)

Striker8241

Surgery successful!

 I finally got the 47-section hatch cut out. It was a tough job because the plastic is really thick here. This hatch was important to the ECM shop because it gained access to the "ovens" - fiberglass boxes that held our high-power jamming transmitters. Through this hatch, we removed and replaced transmitters and their cooling units, some weighing over 50 lbs each. It also provided access to our chaff dispensers. Each loaded tray of chaff weighed about 40 lbs (the trays weighed about 25 lbs empty) and there were 16 of these trays in a full load, one for each slot in the side of the aircraft. They all had to be handed up through the hatch.

Below is a single chaff tray. Each was about 4 feet long and was made of cast aluminum and steel. It had two channels for chaff bundles. The trays were loaded vertically into the dispensers. The dispensers had motor-driven pawls that ejected the chaff bundles. The chaff bundles came in small cardboard packets that were torn open by the pawls when the bundle was ejected. 

Cheers,

Russ

 

Great information there Russ!  So is that chaff flares?

Ken

jimbot58

First attempt:

My Rhinos (so far)

Great pictures there Jim!  Looks like your new camera works very nice!  And by the way, very nice job on those Phantoms!     

Ken

Great information there Russ!  So is that chaff flares?

Ken

Thanks, Ken!

No, the flare dispensers were a separate system. There were six dispensers located underneath the horizontal stabilizer, three on each side. If I remember correctly, they were arranged perpendicular to the fuselage. As I recall, each dispenser looked like a top hat and was mounted into a hole in the stabilizer. The "brim" fit into a recess and was flush with the bottom surface so they're hard to see in photos.

Wuups! That must have been the C or F model. The D had the dispensers in a row on each side next to the fuselage, as shown below. For this musem display, the dispensers have been removed and blank panels installed.

I remember working on a flare dispenser with another guy on a snowy Oklahoma winter day with the wind blowing about 30 mph. There was so much ice on the ramp that our stand started sliding out from underneath the plane.  By the time we got it stopped, we were almost to the plane parked next to us.

Russ

Striker8241

Great information there Russ!  So is that chaff flares?

Ken

Thanks, Ken!

No, the flare dispensers were a separate system. There were six dispensers located underneath the horizontal stabilizer, three on each side. If I remember correctly, they were arranged perpendicular to the fuselage. As I recall, each dispenser looked like a top hat and was mounted into a hole in the stabilizer. The "brim" fit into a recess and was flush with the bottom surface so they're hard to see in photos.

I remember working on a flare dispenser with another guy on a snowy Oklahoma winter day with the wind blowing about 30 mph. There was so much ice on the ramp that our stand started sliding out from underneath the plane.  By the time we got it stopped, we were almost to the plane parked next to us.

Russ

That had to be a scary ride!  And from the sounds of it, a cold one too!

So back to the chaff dispensers, this chaff then was like the chaff they used in WWII, aluminum, to confuse radar?

Ken

Son Of Medicine Man

So back to the chaff dispensers, this chaff then was like the chaff they used in WWII, aluminum, to confuse radar?

Ken

Striker8241

Son Of Medicine Man

So back to the chaff dispensers, this chaff then was like the chaff they used in WWII, aluminum, to confuse radar?

Ken

 

Yup, although much more sophisticated. Instead of plain aluminimum strips, the chaff now is mylar strips coated with alluminum. Much thinner and stronger. It is cut to different lengths depending on the frequency of the signals you want to jam - longer for lower frequences and shorter for higher frequencies. Some of the lower frequency chaff is 8-10 ft long and actually can cause power outages if they get across high power lines. The very high frequency chaff is around an inch long and very narrow - like what you get from a shredder.

 

Russ

Very cool, I did not know that.  That is very interesting.  Thank you for giving us all a lesson on that!   

Ken

Son Of Medicine Man

Striker8241

Son Of Medicine Man

So back to the chaff dispensers, this chaff then was like the chaff they used in WWII, aluminum, to confuse radar?

Ken

 

Yup, although much more sophisticated. Instead of plain aluminimum strips, the chaff now is mylar strips coated with alluminum. Much thinner and stronger. It is cut to different lengths depending on the frequency of the signals you want to jam - longer for lower frequences and shorter for higher frequencies. Some of the lower frequency chaff is 8-10 ft long and actually can cause power outages if they get across high power lines. The very high frequency chaff is around an inch long and very narrow - like what you get from a shredder.

 

Russ

Very cool, I did not know that.  That is very interesting.  Thank you for giving us all a lesson on that!   

Ken

Hey Ken,

I stumbled onto this site for the National Museum of the USAF.

www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/.../media_search.asp

There are some nice shots of F-101s, as well as a host of other aircraft.

Cheers,

Russ

B52s on SAC Alert

Thought you might also be interested in another aspect of my tour with the B-52s at Clinton-Sherman AFB, OK - the nuclear aspect. This was the cold war period so our primary mission was to maintain bombers on alert. For this, we had a separate high-security alert area at one end of the base called the "Christmas Tree" (located to the right at the end of the runway as shown on the map below). The parking spaces were arranged this way so the aircraft could quickly pull out  and taxi to the runway.

We usually maintained 6-8 alert aircraft. An alert aircraft was "cocked" - meaning it had the arming codes and targeting information on board. The alert area was a "No-Lone" zone, which meant everyone, including guards had to be in pairs and you could never be out of sight of your partner while in the area. If you did, you could be shot. Even worse, you could set off a security alert and be arrested and bundled onto a pickup where you stood with your hands on the cab, a searchlight focused on you and a gazillion M-16s trained on you while you were trundled off to the poky with great fanfare (it didnt' happen to me, but I saw it happen to someone else - frankly, I'd rather be shot )

Some of our older planes carried Hound Dog missiles on the pylons and usually two large nukes in the bomb bay. A typical bomb load might be two 1-megaton Hound Dogs and two 20-mt nukes. It was pretty sobering to stand next to a live 20 mt thermonuclear bomb and realize if it went off, you would never know what happened - your brain would be vaporized before it could process what was happening.

The alert crews rode in blue pickups with yellow flashing lights on top. They had the same right of way as emergency vehicles. Each alert B-52 had it's own tanker to refuel it once it was airborne and before it headed off to target. Seeing 8 KC-135s and 8 B-52s taxiing out and taking off was a fantastic sight. Knowing they all made it into the air without breaking was even more fantastic .

Russ

No.. Chaff are small patches of metal foil designed to confuse enemy radar guided missiles.  Flares are just that, very hot flare rounds that are designed to confuse heat guided missiles.

Rich

Son Of Medicine Man

Striker8241

Surgery successful!

 I finally got the 47-section hatch cut out. It was a tough job because the plastic is really thick here. This hatch was important to the ECM shop because it gained access to the "ovens" - fiberglass boxes that held our high-power jamming transmitters. Through this hatch, we removed and replaced transmitters and their cooling units, some weighing over 50 lbs each. It also provided access to our chaff dispensers. Each loaded tray of chaff weighed about 40 lbs (the trays weighed about 25 lbs empty) and there were 16 of these trays in a full load, one for each slot in the side of the aircraft. They all had to be handed up through the hatch.

Below is a single chaff tray. Each was about 4 feet long and was made of cast aluminum and steel. It had two channels for chaff bundles. The trays were loaded vertically into the dispensers. The dispensers had motor-driven pawls that ejected the chaff bundles. The chaff bundles came in small cardboard packets that were torn open by the pawls when the bundle was ejected. 

Cheers,

Russ

 

Great information there Russ!  So is that chaff flares?

Ken

lol someone beat me to it.....

Ok, here are a couple of more shot of the two aircraft I'm trying to do for this build;

The A-7D:

And this is what I hope to achieve:

And the F-105, which I haven't forgotten, but if I can get some progress done on the A-7, I can get back to it:

One thing I have learned about the camera so far, is that I need to turn down the pixel size for the purposes of these forums. Imageshack refuses to allow uploads of the picture at their original size without a premium account. I don't think we need 16 megapixels for this anyway.

Nice work, Jim! They're looking good!

Russ

2 Aircraft i wouldnt mind building myself. Very nice.

Need some advice guys. I'm about to start spray painting using cans. I have the paint for the base coat and clear coat. What kind of floor wax or furniture wax was it that you guys use as a final coat?

Thanks,

Russ

Its not wax dude, its called Future floor polish. Or pledge with future shine. Whereabouts are you located geographically russ?

Striker8241

Hey Ken,

I stumbled onto this site for the National Museum of the USAF.

www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/.../media_search.asp

There are some nice shots of F-101s, as well as a host of other aircraft.

Cheers,

Russ

Hi Russ,

Oh yes, I know the museum well.  I live in Indiana about a 3 hours drive away from it.  A group of us met with Berny last year there.  I setup a special "one-on-one" with one of the F-4's for Berny where they allowed him behind the ropes to get up close and personal.  It was a real treat.

I want to go there again this year since they have part 2 of the Vietnam Exhibit done now.  When the weather cools down I think would be a good time to go.  They are also supposed to be building a new wing that will be housing a C-5 Galaxy!

Ken

Striker8241

B52s on SAC Alert

Thought you might also be interested in another aspect of my tour with the B-52s at Clinton-Sherman AFB, OK - the nuclear aspect. This was the cold war period so our primary mission was to maintain bombers on alert. For this, we had a separate high-security alert area at one end of the base called the "Christmas Tree" (located to the right at the end of the runway as shown on the map below). The parking spaces were arranged this way so the aircraft could quickly pull out  and taxi to the runway.

We usually maintained 6-8 alert aircraft. An alert aircraft was "cocked" - meaning it had the arming codes and targeting information on board. The alert area was a "No-Lone" zone, which meant everyone, including guards had to be in pairs and you could never be out of sight of your partner while in the area. If you did, you could be shot. Even worse, you could set off a security alert and be arrested and bundled onto a pickup where you stood with your hands on the cab, a searchlight focused on you and a gazillion M-16s trained on you while you were trundled off to the poky with great fanfare (it didnt' happen to me, but I saw it happen to someone else - frankly, I'd rather be shot )

Some of our older planes carried Hound Dog missiles on the pylons and usually two large nukes in the bomb bay. A typical bomb load might be two 1-megaton Hound Dogs and two 20-mt nukes. It was pretty sobering to stand next to a live 20 mt thermonuclear bomb and realize if it went off, you would never know what happened - your brain would be vaporized before it could process what was happening.

The alert crews rode in blue pickups with yellow flashing lights on top. They had the same right of way as emergency vehicles. Each alert B-52 had it's own tanker to refuel it once it was airborne and before it headed off to target. Seeing 8 KC-135s and 8 B-52s taxiing out and taking off was a fantastic sight. Knowing they all made it into the air without breaking was even more fantastic .

Russ

 

Okay Russ, when Dom gets back online, he is going to drool all over this stuff.  I find it fascinating as well.  Very cool.  I may have to build a B-52 in "nuclear" mode myself!

Ken

Scorpiomikey

Its not wax dude, its called Future floor polish. Or pledge with future shine. Whereabouts are you located geographically russ?

Thanks, Mikey. BTW. how do you apply it? Spray?

jimbot58

Ok, here are a couple of more shot of the two aircraft I'm trying to do for this build;

The A-7D:

And this is what I hope to achieve:

And the F-105, which I haven't forgotten, but if I can get some progress done on the A-7, I can get back to it:

One thing I have learned about the camera so far, is that I need to turn down the pixel size for the purposes of these forums. Imageshack refuses to allow uploads of the picture at their original size without a premium account. I don't think we need 16 megapixels for this anyway.

Hi Jim,

Looks like you got a full load.  Fine work on all of them!     

Ken

Ok, guys, need your help again. I can't remember exactly where the ground power cable was connected on the B-52D. I know it was somewhere on the right side of the belly just forward of the front landing gear but I can't pin-point it on the model. I've been searching the internet but can't find a closeup of this area. I've also checed the In Detail and Scale but no luck. Anybody know, know anybody who knows, or have a picture of the location?

Thanks,

Russ

Yeh we definitely need to do another trip.

Rich

A C5... Man that will bring back some memories...

Son Of Medicine Man

Striker8241

Hey Ken,

I stumbled onto this site for the National Museum of the USAF.

www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/.../media_search.asp

There are some nice shots of F-101s, as well as a host of other aircraft.

Cheers,

Russ

Hi Russ,

Oh yes, I know the museum well.  I live in Indiana about a 3 hours drive away from it.  A group of us met with Berny last year there.  I setup a special "one-on-one" with one of the F-4's for Berny where they allowed him behind the ropes to get up close and personal.  It was a real treat.

I want to go there again this year since they have part 2 of the Vietnam Exhibit done now.  When the weather cools down I think would be a good time to go.  They are also supposed to be building a new wing that will be housing a C-5 Galaxy!

Ken

Striker8241

Ok, guys, need your help again. I can't remember exactly where the ground power cable was connected on the B-52D. I know it was somewhere on the right side of the belly just forward of the front landing gear but I can't pin-point it on the model. I've been searching the internet but can't find a closeup of this area. I've also checed the In Detail and Scale but no luck. Anybody know, know anybody who knows, or have a picture of the location?

Thanks,

Russ

Hi Russ,

I looked through all of my personal photographs (which I took a bunch of the B-52 there at the National Museum) but I do not have any in that location.  So I only have one book on the B-52 (B-52 Stratofortress in action) and I could only find one picture that came close.  I don't know if it will help, but I sent it to your email address.

Ken

Striker8241

Scorpiomikey

Its not wax dude, its called Future floor polish. Or pledge with future shine. Whereabouts are you located geographically russ?

Thanks, Mikey. BTW. how do you apply it? Spray?  I live in Melbourne, Florida, about 15 miles south of Cape Canaveral.

Brush paint. Its self levelling. Not sure where to get in in the states. Swannys website had a page about it but i lost the link a while ago.

Scorpiomikey

Striker8241

Scorpiomikey

Its not wax dude, its called Future floor polish. Or pledge with future shine. Whereabouts are you located geographically russ?

Thanks, Mikey. BTW. how do you apply it? Spray?  I live in Melbourne, Florida, about 15 miles south of Cape Canaveral.

Brush paint. Its self levelling. Not sure where to get in in the states. Swannys website had a page about it but i lost the link a while ago.

Pledge with Future Shine Floor Polish.  You can get it almost at any department store like Walmart.  I picked a bottle of it up at Home Depot.

Ken

It's actually easy to find in most supermarkets and department stores.  It's a floor finish which can be applied by brush, although I have heard some folks spray it with an airbrush.  I'd be afraid of gumming up the airbrush.  It's basically a clear thick acrylic.  If I need to do a small part, I just dip the piece into it, then let it dry on wax paper.  I use this technique mostly for small cockpit glass and window pieces.

Rich

Scorpiomikey

Striker8241

Scorpiomikey

Its not wax dude, its called Future floor polish. Or pledge with future shine. Whereabouts are you located geographically russ?

Thanks, Mikey. BTW. how do you apply it? Spray?  I live in Melbourne, Florida, about 15 miles south of Cape Canaveral.

Brush paint. Its self levelling. Not sure where to get in in the states. Swannys website had a page about it but i lost the link a while ago.