i have a dim and distant memory of entering this in this gb am i right or not?

iv discovered the wonders of alclad chrome

Yeah, maybe I should nail 'er down at that!

Nice work on the decals and looks like you've got the wing fixed.

Gamera- wind?...nothing that a 5/8" drill bit > lag bolt > and 1/4" guy wire won't hold down...   LOL...just use that bit at different places so you can call them anti-aircraft gun holes. Hang in there brother...you'll get the pic you want!  

-----------------------------------

The wing repair is progressing...not finished yet by no means:

Did some decal scaling work with older renditions and tested...

iv just discovered the wonders of chrome alclad!!

Sorry Randy, I did take 'Gladys' out yesterday to try to get the photos taken. Nice sunny day but the wind was blowing hard. I had to hold on to the model to keep her from blowing off with every gust. I'm getting a little grouchy here, if I can't get anything this weekend I'll just take the photos inside.

Still lookin for finished pictures of a finished Jug . Course if there were two of em lookin that good I might be gettin me in trouble

Eatthis The front page is updated with your build annnnnnddd your badge of honor is ready

thats flawless!!

Cool, good luck with her!

Thanks Gamera,Vman and others for the input. I broke out the sanding screen last night and went to work. I analyzed the impact and decided that I would sand and polish the wing smooth since so much of the impact area was so close to the lines and even on them. I will then address the loss of the panel lines. I have an idea for the repair of them in lieu of sprue stretching (I tested my skill with that and found I could not meet my own expectations), I will test this avenue after I see the true impact to to the panel lines after I re-prime the area this afternoon.

Enrico - That is some might fine detail work with the checks! Marvelous work sir! 

Enrico: Those squares look great! Now I want to do an aircraft with a checkerboard pattern!

Rich: Maybe you could  lay some wet paper towels or rags over most of the model to protect it and spray oven cleaner on the wing that needs to be striped? Not sure how well it would work.

Z Square 8 looks like the alclad behaved for ya As far as the base coat on the wing panel goes I am not sure how I would handle that. Maybe try sanding it first and use stripping as a last resort ??  I am assuming thats a lacquer based paint and admit I dont use it much.

Italian Starfighter those checkers are top notch man, but gotta tell ya looking at them and knowing their size is makin my eyes cross.

Eatthis will get the front page updated shortly and have your badge ready. I bet that Mk4 was a hand full to fly huh.

Hi.....this is the time for tiny squares.....2,5 X 2,5 mm .....The hard work is also ended.....only same retouch and a gloss cote.......ciao from Italy!!

ok all, this post has good and bad...the tale of the tape below:

The Good- had a pretty fair base coat on already and decided to paint the rudder, stabilizers and wing sections as a breather before final gloss coat.

Also did the cowlings in Silver Plate-Buffing Metalizer.

and a cowling close up...

                                      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The bad...back to that fair coat of base. I let the silver plate dry for 48 hrs, removed the masking and plastic and tamiya taped it off in preparation for a final gloss coat of black with Testors. Below were the results to my chagrin. It should be noted that my previous posts did not indicate that this issue of "to strip or not" is contained to only the top side of the right wing (approx 3" x 6" of surface area). I could opt for sand and repolish...just considering the best option with your input.

I'll go a bit larger for the next images

the rest of the final coat went pretty well...it was just this section of the top right wing. This is certainly fixable and just a small "bump in the road" (or should I say wing?) 

I'll defer to the quote in kermit's signature...and proceed with the usual bulldog mentality 

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Sir Winston Churchill

I'll have to post a before and after once repairs have been completed. LOL

...or there is always the option to morph this build into a "crash and burn" complete with diorama. I could snap off the tail section, heat  and de-shape. WAIT...not a good option as the diorama would be the size of a pool table! 

I'm leaning toward a sand and polish and then using a thinner to clean out the edge details...

yeah the monster spit is finished :)

i might go for nmf with the triboom spit too

it has some orange peel in the gloss and over all it just appears thick...I'll try to get a good detail shot in the AM and post.

Eatthis seems I missed your pictures of the Spitfire Mk4 are you calling it finished ?

Z Square 8 first off silvering under a decal is caused by very small air bubbles trapped under it. As you know flat paint has a rough surface where a gloss paint has a smooth surface. The rough surface of the flat paint will trap air under the decal causing a silvery white look to it especially under the clear areas of the decal. A gloss coat wont tend to trap air so silvering is kept to a minium.

As for stripping the paint on your build I would pose a couple of questions. From the pictures of your gloss black, the paint looks like it hasnt orange peeled or anything wierd like that. So why do you wish to strip it ? And What kind of paint did you use for the gloss black coat ?

The reason I ask these questions are if you look at a real B-29 its oil canned big time in some places and single panels can 3 and 4 tonal variations in them. With that said unless your base coat is orange peeled or some such thing like that, the imperfections may very well work in your favor. Another thing to consider is if you get any of the stripping fluid inside the model............... BURRRRR I dont even want to think about that.

If you are looking for a method to strip paint of your model... I dont know what "works" here in the USA and what is commonly used but back home in holland we like to use the spray can oven cleaners for it.

Generously coat your subject, tie it in a plastic bag and then let stand overnight. The paint should come off easily using a gentle rub with an old toothbrush

Richard

Rich: Frankly I go black gloss, Alclad, decals and that's it. You don't need to gloss at all since the NM finish is already smooth. I spray a little dull varnish over the decals and the decals ONLY if they're too shiny. Don't spray the whole plane or the NM will look really dull, which might work for a really weathered plane but I don't like it. I've used Testor's Metallizer Sealer over Alclad but I've gotten to I don't like the look and probably won't be using it anymore.

I'd think if you were looking for something without many complex curves to use foil on the B-29 would be ideal. After all it's pretty much a long tube with slab like wings and tail. The only complex curves would be getting the nose area right.

good info Vman...

here is a question that I'm mulling over...considering striping off the black gloss and starting over. Is there a solvent that you would recommend that is not so aggressive to destroy raised panel lines in the process?

Current blk gloss is thick and I believe I have lost some detail that I would like to show better...toss of a coin at this point and maybe I'm trying to be too perfect with the blk gloss base...

Z Square 8 I use household aluminum foil and Micro Scale Aluminum Foil Adhesive. Dont like the way BMF works and if you get some thats old it has a grainy look to it I think caused by the old adhesive backing.

Anyway the nice thing is if I dont like the way a bit of foil lays down I can run a bit of  alcohol under the foil and lift it off then wipe the adhesive off and lay another piece with no troubles. The trick is in keeping everything clean, if there is even a small piece of dust on the surface it will show up like a sore thumb under the foil. So careful surface prep is important.

With the B-29 as large as it is I think I am going to foil the wings off the plane leaving the area where they join the fuse unfoiled. I will also do most of my weathering and or polishing at this point then seal it with future. The fuse and tail parts will be done in the same manner. Then once I join them I will finish the foiling. I am thinking it will be much easier done this way. The only part bothering me now is how to do the deicing boots on leading edges.

But I would highly recommend as Kermit said earlier to make your first foiling build a simple airframe mostly because you can get a feel for bending the foil around leading edges wing tips and other compound curves. I dont really think its more difficult than painting just differant and more time consuming.

Actually both methods are correct, paint and foil, some were painted with silver lacquer some with clear depending  the aircraft and where it  was. Some were even cleaned so much that they ended up having the paint and clad coating on the aluminum rubbed off creating a polished finish, leaving the skin even more prone to corrosion. So all these were considered NMF. I dont know much about British aircraft but most all aluminum sheet used to skin US aircraft was clad aluminum giving them a bit of a gray look. The huge issue was corrosion prevention, clad aluminum is very corrosion resistant unless it is exposed to salt water. Salt water eats clad aluminum like your kid eats fries. Hence the clear or silver lacquer coatings, or the forced highly polished planes. Clad aluminum polishes up really well BTW.

...I believe that Vman is considering his 1/48th 29 in foil, so I am even more interested now in his knowledge and skill in that build.

As I mentioned previously, I would like to try this foil medium and the readily available foil medium tip that Guild A provided may be a cost effective avenue to experiment on a smaller scale unit. I'll have to take notice next trip into the hardware store...what type of adhesion would one recommend? Does this medium already come with an adhesive backing?

...and I went back to review relayed experience on Theuns mirage alclad efforts. So, If I understand correctly,

Choice A...you guys use a gloss over the black base >apply alclad > no protective top coating at all after decaling?

Choice B...black gloss base>alclad> future coat > decal >no top coat?

Choice C...set me straight please (LOL)

Is the "silvering" in the decals I'm reading about a bleed from the Alclad into the decal itself? What does this look like?

Martin: Well technically Alclad, Talon, Metallizer, etc are metal- they're tiny metal particles suspended in solvent. Once sprayed on the model the solvent evaporates leaving a thin metal film behind. 

Still I'd love to see what you come up with, I'm always interested in seeing new ways of doing things.

Cliff 

IMHO nothing has been proven at all....

I am advocating both mediums to give lifelike and realistic finishes when applied properly. To simply say "Metal paints make bad models" to me sounds too biased and simply is not true

While i will gladly agree with anyone saying "i prefer foil over paint", i will have more of a problem and will disagree with anyone saying "painting with metalizers is a waste of time". Because it isn't...

Besides, prewar fighters and for instance, wings of P51's weren't all metal but laquered finishes. Therefore usage of paint is both merited and desired for such subjects at the very least

Richard

A 1/48th B 29, Rich?  Er, no, I take your point. I'm not sure I'd take that on!

I didn't expect to see all foil, of course and, to be scrupulously fair, I haven't read every post, but in my selection, purely randomly clicked upon, I did expect one or two.

I would recoil from any suggestion of using Alclad far more readily than the tedious, but not difficult matter of foiling, as i understand it is a multi-stage process.  My chum in the model car game has used it and raves about it.  Still looks like paint to me!  Perhaps it's suitable for those NMF a/c that have a bit of oxidation on them, a mattish look, but you could never do a polished lightning or, say, "Precious Metal", the Reno racer, in paint of any kind.

I've done a 1/32nd scale Kieft racing car in foil, panel by panel in the style of a full sized coachbuilder, where only small parts can be made and have to be welded together, with only the weld linished, so I just used an old typewriter rubber to put the linish marks on the model, which disguised the joints in the foil.  I didn't burnish it because I wanted the "mill finish" that any hand made car body will exhibit without paint.

On the Spitfire, the clinker (clencher?) pattern of spanwise wing panelling is also so easy to do with a simple overlap of foil.  

When I say foil, I don't mean Bare Metal Foil, by name.  That's too thin.  I use that for chrome on slot cars.  But on model aircraft, I use Sellotape aluminium, a product available in any hardware shop for sealing gutters and down pipes.  So cheap compared with model foils.  Thicker too, so will take rivet impressions with care.

It also burnishes and even polishes, should you wish to do "Precious Metal".  I also know that Lightnings were polished as a colleague tells me that was a punishment in the RAF at RAF Binbrook for any small time miscreants.  "Get out there and polish that kite, Aircraftsman Bloggs!"  An excuse to sit stripped to the waste all day in the sunshine atop that distinctive wing.

I doubt if I'll have time to take part in the GB with the Spitfire, but will put the results up when I have done it.

I am doing a small range of vac-form kits starting with the Fairey FD2 and Heaven help anyone who paints that beauty <G>.

Cheers,

Martin

EDIT  Kermit, I missed your post while typing, but...QED!!

Vetteman is a real expert on the subject. His foil work is beautiful to see. At the time he convinced me to try one myself he said to me one should start out with a 1/48 scale with "easy lines" such as a Mig 15

This is how mine turned out:

Not perfect by any standard but a good fun experiment/ experience if you will

The next one (1/72 Revell P47D) was sprayed with acrylic metal paint (Hawkeye Hobbies) for comparison:

Richard

I can say w/o reservation that I considered foil for the 29 build initially...but was smart enough to recognize my skill level would not be up to par for the surface area in question (being 20+ years away from the hobby). Heck, I envisioned the frustration level peaking and the kit balled up like the foil cover over a plate of Christmas cookies in January,[at the top of the ol' round file], by this time had I elected to go foil route! 

Figured Alclad would be a challenge enough since I have no experience with an airbrush either.

"A man has got to realize his limitations"

I see these forums as a great place for all levels of experience to learn from and participate in (which is why I threw my build in...figuring it would be at the lower end of the quality range as compared to others on the forum in it's entirety)

I certainly don't have 52 years of modeling under my belt as note, but respect the skill level and knowledge if willing to share. I'd like to try this foil thing...just not on a build of 1/48th as a first. 

You are mostly right about the use of foil Martin, and every now and then people do use the foil to finish a plane.

However, paints can nowadays make very lifelike models and they do contain actual metal. The most used (seemingly) brand of NMF paint being Alclad. A well executed paintjob with that stuff is nothing short of stunning to see!

Besides, and i speak of experience here, laying down metal foil well is a very tedious job that requires skill to do well

Richard

OK, I'm going to put the cat amongst the pigeons here!

I'm new to all this Group Build stuff and I don't usually build kits anyway, I scratchbuild, but surely Natural Metal Finish means exactly that?  Not silver paint, however clever it might pretend to be.  Where's the foil guys??

The only way to make something look like metal is to use metal!

For a bit of relaxation from patternmaking I'm doing a K5054 Spitfire Protoype, first flight condition. I am covering the entire thing, except control surfaces in foil, then paining the semi opaque zinc chromate Alodine over the relevant panels one at a time, but leaving the front panels and leading edges bare.

To my mind that's the only way it's ever going to look like metal!

Martin

Starfighter- I concur that the finish is outstanding! I aspire to get the finish on the 29 to turn out that good, but not expecting it! LOL...it really is amazing work you and others do to get plastic to look like NM the way you do.

Vman- Glad you had an opportunity to peruse the tribute site. I just completed working on a new page for Capt. Richard A. Field of Z-6 this past Friday. I worked with Capt. Field's son on the page build. He and his family are quite pleased with it. My hope is to develop the Tinian and Guam side of things on the site as time marches on...hopefully, families will find the site and want to add their fathers/grandfathers.

What started out as a "winter project in 2010" as a tribute site build, continues to pick up steam.

Looking forward to seeing some WIP of "Double Exposure"

29 update: figured I would take a breather from the gloss application effort. I will revisit this early this week. Wknd work was minimal per say, but applied Testors Silver Plate-Buffing to the rudder, stabilizer and wing sections,doors as well as the 4 cowlings. I sanded the leading edges of the cowlings with 20000 and then hit them with polishing cloth. The results were a weathered but chrome end. I'll detail the gaps a bit and post up some pics soon...probably while I wait for the next attempt on the gloss base to dry. 

For those working on WWII aircraft or armour...pull up this site to set the background mood while at the bench/table:

http://archive.org/details/G.i.Jive