Ye i have seen those kits. Sounds like you got a lucky break with the extra figures.

Thanks all.

Bish, this kit came with a set of figs.  Dunno if it it was a mistake but they were all doubled up in the box so with some work I could have made more.  But my eyes needed a break

Lovely work Marc as always. Which figures have you used there.

Jack, no need for the apology. Vehicles like this can really cause a headache. As they are field conversions, there are no official documents giving details. And as they are so rare, photos and any info is very limited. I knew these were converted from old Bergepanthers, which i think were themselves field modified from the very early Ausf D. But i was also under the impression that the vehicle i am building was the command vehicle of the recovery section. Sp it seems i don't need to worry about finding a mechanic figure.

Thats interesting info on the shoulder boards. I didn't know about the addition of the P. Waffenfarbe is another area that can cause confusion.

I am hopeing i can dig out the figures by the end of the year. You have been a great help. Hopefully it will give me some more insit. I just hope the finished Dio is worth all the effort.

Marc - I like them figures, have to keep reminding myself the actual scale you are working in.

Armor86 - thanks for explaining your texture method.

My spelling error ... aw well, I guess everyone is entitled to a homer moment.  Don't feel anywhere near as bad  with that compared to the mistake I made with Bish's build.  Hope it didn't precipitate  his decision to buy that book.

regards,

Jack

Marc, I have to someday take the plunge and builds some figgies for my armor. They really do set the piece off.

Hey Jack, to get the textured surface I used a couple products - one Vallejo Plastic Putty (401), Tamiya Liquid Surface primer (grey) upper and lower hull and / or Liquid Surfacer Prime (white) turret. Using putty knife and applied small amounts to surface, allowed to dry then sanded until I liked the texture ... I then applied the Tamiya paint with an old brush - any thick paint with very little self-leveling properties will due.  Another suggested paint would be Mr Surfacer 500, but it can't be found around here in the US.

I brush it on the model in long strokes first and when the surface is completely covered, I begin a stippling motion. The paint sticks to itself and the texture is formed completely. My objective was to create a subtle slightly surface. Once dry lightly sand. Armor86

Wow-zers Marc ! They add a lot to the build .

Marc: Looks great!

The basic ground work is hardening and all the figures needs is some gear and weapons and I can put this one to bed.

pyrman64

Jack, I hate to sound like a "grammar nazi," but it's winch not wench.

Actually I think a certain German field marshal who used to post here did have a Tiger equipped with a wench...

Jack, I hate to sound like a "grammar nazi," but it's winch not wench.

Bish - I have to apologize.  In trying to answer your question I've made the mistake of approaching from the wrong angle.   I was thinking the vehicle in question was still part of the recovery unit, but after reading some threads over at missing-lynx,  it seems it was in fact combined with the Panzer IV turret for the purpose of being assigned to the combat unit itself, (and as you stated, specifically as a command tank).    Apparently once the unit received properly equipped Bergepanthers with the wench,  the older Bergepanthers without the wench were available for such modifications.

So that is a definite yes for the field grey panzer uniform.   Collar insignia was black with metal skulls and pink piping.  Shoulder boards would also be black with the pink piping.  There was also the addition of a 'P' cypher  on the shoulder straps, it's colour depended on the wearer's rank: embroidered pink, white metal or gold metal.

May 1944 brought new changes and distinctions creating complexity.  Specifically for SP anti-tank units:

-those serving under Army, Corps, or under infantry, rifle or mountain division kept their uniforms as above.  

-for those under infantry, rifle or mountain regiment command, the collar insignia was replaced with standard Litzen on green patches, edges piped either in white or green depending on the parent regiment's Waffenfarbe.

-units under command of Panzer and Panzer-Grenadier divisions, along with those under Army or Corps command equiped with the Elephant, were to return to wearing the black panzer uniform.

regards,

Jack

Jack, some great info there, thank you. The Verlinden figure set i plan on useing are commanders, so not likely to be getting dirty. But i am thinking of adding a Mechanic or two in overalls. So i think i will do the Field grey for the commanders.

The main gun could be used, of course they had to turn the whole vehicle to aim it. But as it is a command vehcile, i would imagine it was not intended to go out and hunt the enemy. I will have a look for that set of books. I ordered the one about the 653 from Amazon yestersday for £14 includeing postage, so hopefully it will arrive early next week.

malone - nice prep work on your second build.  Which kit is this?  That was some kind of nasty seam you had to clean up on the hull side, characteristic of resin molds.

Armour86 - superb detailing, can you tell us what you used to create the textured surface?

Bish - the Brian Leigh Davis book is also in my library, along with Osprey's revised edition of The Panzer Divisions, and Squadron's   Tank and AFV Crew Uniforms Since 1916.  The book  I mentioned consists of three volumes, but the first one deals with mostly frontline combat units.  First printed in 1986, it can be quite pricey depending on it's condition, though that JJF book on 653 tops it - seems to be a real collector's item.  

So here is a quoted entry from Vol.1 dealing with the field grey panzer uniform:

The field grey Field Dress of Armor-design: a field grey "special dress" (Sonderbekleidung) was introduced by an order (HM 40, No.684) dated 29 May 1940 for gun crews of assaultgun units of the artillery.   An order (HM 42, No.555) dated 26 June 1942 extended it's wear to all assaultgun units.  Later, crews of selfpropelled guns (Selbstfahrlafetten), crews of armored artillery (Panzerartillerie), and of armored trains were authorized to wear the field dress.

To me the fact that the particular vehicle you are building was attached to HQ and also the command vehicle for the recovery section doesn't necessarily mean they were dressed differently than other mechanics.  Was the turret attached just for crew protection or were they expected to operate the main gun?

If they were issued the panzer wrap, there is good reason though why it's not that prevalent in photos.  For work around vehicles troops were advised to wear coveralls, as well as the special reed green denims introduced in 1941.  In many photos they also wear  pre-war fatigues.

There are a few recent releases in resin that look quite good:

Corpus

Evolution Miniatures

regards,

Jack

armor86

tigerman - the opti-visor is a must have tool .... especially if you're over 50 .... Armor86

I've been using one for the past year or two and I'm not even 50!

Armor86: Now that's some nice detail!

tigerman - the opti-visor is a must have tool .... especially if you're over 50 .... Armor86

Armor86-PE looks great-I've got to get a PE tool before I try tackling anything like that.  Rest of the build looks good too-can't wait to see it with some paint.  I don't see too many DAK Tigers here in the forums-looking forward to seeing yours.

My gosh guys, if you blink , you miss so much here.

Malone, what up with dat hull?

Armor86, that's insane work. What opti-visor do you wear? LOL

T-bolt, glad you're back in the fold.

RBaer, glad all is well. That would have put me over the edge to ruin a great camo job. 

Marc , them s.o.b.d.s. tracks ! I've heard bad things about them shrinking but i didnt realize they'd go to doing that so suddenly . Nice build thow ...dont hold any bricks near it !

Ripcord welcome over here

Armor 86, I don't see a thing wrong. It looks pretty freakin awesome to me!

malone duke - off to a great start ... I'm plugging along with piecing together Voyager Photo Etch ... photos below of the back end (Tiger I - DAK) ... drill small holes where to placed all the fittings .... Armor86 

The tool of choice - PE ...

A little more sanding on seems ... air intakes ... chains emplaced. 

Had to apply paint inside .... before installing 

Please take a look, comment on needed areas ... know about bolts on each side of plates, once exhaust plates finished - move on to rear fenders ... Armor86

Thanks, Bob. The edges of the second color are nice and sharp, so it's all good.

Okay, I got a bit caught up, some fine work going on here. I did manage to see a couple of obvious things I missed (thanks, Carl) so I've got a couple of things to do in the morning before I seal the paint with clear and start the washes. Funny, since I did them on my last KT.......   Oh well, one more reason to keep current!

Malone-it's good to see your work in progress....looking forward to more.

Rbear-scary moment indeed-things like that always scare me until after the dust settles and I realize that there are very few things that can't be fixed.  Looking forward to seeing pics of your KT

Marc-another outstanding build.  I especially like the camo & weathering.  I would have never noticed the track issue if you hadn't mentioned it. 

One hundred and eleven pages!!! I really need to do some serious catching up.

I promise, I have been working on my KT, in fact the second color coat went on today, and I have pics on my camera. Finding time (at work) to get the pics uploaded is tough.......

So I had an exciting moment when I was removing the silly putty I had masked with. It had changed into a semi-liquid state, and the Tamiya spray paint was not dry on the silly putty. I almost lost control of certain bodily functions, thinking I had a ruined paint job to deal with. Turns out that after I got most of the goo off, what was left semi-dried after it was exposed to air and I was able to remove it with a Q-tip. In fact, it stuck to itself quite well, so I'm okay. The paint under the mask was un-affected. I'm thinking that I tried to get one too many jobs out of this stuff, and the Tamiya paint, silly putty and the Testors MM enamels that were mixed in with the silly putty from prior paint jobs all combined to turn my silly putty into zombie snot.

Pics soon, and I promise to get caught up.........

Hi all, TB379 here -- I'm back from my three weeks in England, and besides the usual post-trip jetlag and period of reorganisation I find myself in the throes of moving house. This will not be a quick process, it'll be three weeks before we're more or less done, so any thoughts of bench time are probably wishful thinking until, oh, Christmas...

The work going on here is outa sight, far too much to coment on individually, but suffice to say that I will be very pleased indeed if my finished product stacks up against the killer builds coming out of this Cat factory!

Cheers, Mike/TB379

man o man everyone is really putting in some good work...  top notch stuff here guys, i'm not satisfied with any of my tiger pics so i dont have any completed shots for you guys yet, but this weekend ill get some up. but heres some beginning pics of my panther g. basically just removing some chunks from the hull, piecing it together and filling a bunch of huge holes. but this is how it all starts.

jack, great info, thanks. Sound slike a book worth getting. My main source for uniforms is Brian davis German Army Uniforms and Insignia. It does say the Field Grey uniform was issued to troops of TD units, so i am guessing that applies to all units. I would imagine the mechanics themselves would wear coveralls of some sort. My figures are commanders, so i think i am safe with the field grey. Always nice to hear what others things or what info they have.

dave, those two photos you mention of the tank i am doing are the same two i have seen. I have heard about that book and really wish i had got it sooner. But seeing as the figures are hard to get to at the moment and the Dio will have to wait a few weeks, it might still be of some value to me for this build.

Thanks for those pics you posted. The first photo, the vehicle has the same insignia as mine.And i recall reading that each Company had a slightly different one. So it could be that vehcile was in the unit HQ as well. The one i am building was apparently a command vehicle for the unit recovery section. And in a unit of that size, i would think it wuld be a part of HQ. And one guys has the uniform on i was thinking of, so thats very useful.

Yes, the Pz IV turret was welded onto the Panther hull. As i understand it, the turret was to small for the Panther's turret ring.

You hav ebeen a great help, thank you.