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1945 GB

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  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Friday, December 5, 2014 6:29 PM

The SdK.fz numbers were the German version of M for US armour or FV for British. All armoured vehicles, including tanks, had one. I never really bothered about remembering the tanks numbers, the PzK.pfw numbers are easier.

That looks a bit of a beat. I must admit, when I think of US forces in the PTO, I think of the marines. I know the army were out their, but always assumed the marines were the bulk of the forces, especially when it came to the Island hopping.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    April 2013
Posted by SchattenSpartan on Friday, December 5, 2014 6:31 PM

I'm not sure on that King Tiger, but it's definitely a viable option... I'll probably try to build one of my big P-47s though...

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Northern Virginia
Posted by ygmodeler4 on Saturday, December 6, 2014 12:12 AM

I think that's the majority of people's views on the PTO Bish.

Stik, is that overall casualties or percentage too? On a side note, when I was doing research a couple months ago, one source said that the battle of Peleliu incurred almost 40% casualty rate, higher than any other amphibious assault in American history....

Looking at the casualty numbers and rates for some of those pacific battles, Army and Marine alike, is quite sobering

-Josiah

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, December 6, 2014 2:45 AM

Josiah, I would have to go back and do some reading on that battle regarding percentages.  But let's put it this way regarding the PTO. The Marine Corps, at it's peak strength, fielded roughly 6 divisions, plus some assorted independent units. The Army had three full field Armies, plus assorted independent units in the PTO at peak strength at the same time. No disrespect to the Marines, but the Army was there alongside in the Central Pacific island hopping, as well as up the Solomons, plus on their own on both flanks (Aleutians & New Guinea). I always get into it at work with Marine vets... They hate to be reminded that it took the Army's 81st Infantry Division to relieve the 1st Marines and complete the battle of Pelilieu after that division had been gutted there. And that was after they took Anguar. Arguably that island was far more lightly defended, but they still had to go into another fight after they had completed their assigned mission, to relieve a unit which had not.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Saturday, December 6, 2014 2:51 AM

Its not often we get discussions on the PTO, so thanks for this guys. My P-61 is going to be in PTO markings, which has to be a first for me.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, December 6, 2014 3:12 AM

I have a P-61 in my stash that I want to build as "Hard to Get", the P-61 that flew a diversion mission during the Cabanatuan Raid in the Phillipines, January 1945. The most senior ranking US Army officer killed in action was in the PTO. General Simon Buckner was killed by Japanese artillery near the end of the battle of Okinawa in 1945.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Saturday, December 6, 2014 3:21 AM

I haven't decided which one I am doing yet. I have a print scale decal sheet, I don't think those old Airfix decals would stand up to it, and I have narrowed it down to Coopers Snooper, lady in the dark and Our panther. There are some other nice options but many are from 44

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Northern Virginia
Posted by ygmodeler4 on Saturday, December 6, 2014 10:28 AM

Carlos, I did not mean to sound like I am trying to play down the role the Army had, I was just curious as to percentages because, as you said the Army did have so many more men. And not to say that the Marines fought harder or any other thing, to me, casualty rates are a more interesting statistic to look at and I believe can tell us some different things than strictly casualty numbers...if that makes sense?

Heck, if the original plan for the Palaus had gone on, I have little doubt the Army alone would have sustained as high of casualty rates by taking Babelthuap than both Marines and Army sustained on Peleliu.

If you do not have the statistic on Okinawa handy I do not mean for you to go look it up, I can do that over break. Though I understand A LOT of variables go into how many casualties and the rates (e.g. your enemy) I think they may have something to say about the leadership as well. I have not studied it enough to form a definitive conclusion so please do correct me if you think this is off base, but based off conversations I've had and the research I have done, it seems like in general (not always) the Marine leadership was more aggressive (arrogant may also be a word) than their Army counterparts in the Pacific. One specific example that comes to mind (and more of the arrogant attribute) is when Gen. Rupertus claimed that his 1st Division could take Peleliu in three days and then pushed his Marines in a manner as to complete that deadline, even after the battle had started.

I have only read one book on Okinawa, "The Ultimate Battle" by Bill Sloan, and that was many years ago. The theme that I remember is that after Army forces first came in to contact with the Japanese on the drive southward, it was a very bitter and hard fought battle until the end.

There's just so many things to read (and model) and so very little time to do it.

-Josiah

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, December 6, 2014 11:23 AM

Josiah, I was not meaning to come across in such a manner. Both branches performed sterling service in the PTO. It's just that nowadays, unless one is a student of the history there, the Army's role there seems to be downplayed or even forgotten. The Marines are much better at keeping their history there alive. In the long run, when you compare the two branches, they had different styles of tackling the same problem. The Marines tended to have a more head on approach for speed, while the Army tended to prefer more fire support and maneuver to reduce casualties, but as a result took longer to reduce defences encountered. This came to head at Saipan when the 27th Infantry Division was sandwiched between two Marine divisions while taking that island. I wont go into the details here, but there were significant issues and fall out as a result afterwards. Yes, General Rupertus command actions at Peleliu really has one wondering about the way he conducted that battle. But then again, the same thing could be said for Patton's actions in command as well on occasion on the other side of the world .

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
Posted by modelcrazy on Saturday, December 6, 2014 5:28 PM

Bish, Stick,

I am going to change my entry to the 1/350 Academy USS Indianapolis.
I'll save the Dora for something else.

Steve

Building a kit from your stash is like cutting a head off a Hydra, two more take it's place.

 

 

http://www.spamodeler.com/forum/

  • Member since
    November 2010
  • From: Florida-West Central
Posted by Eagle90 on Saturday, December 6, 2014 5:33 PM

Hey Bish and Stik,

Here is what I'm going to build for the GB!  Wanted to see if Bish would say anything before I committed!  Whistling

A VERY good friend gave this to me for my birthday and it was meant for this GB!

Eagle90

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Saturday, December 6, 2014 5:40 PM

Steve, looking forward to that one. From memory, is that the ship that was sunk after delivery the first atomic bomb to Tinian.

About damn time Eagle Big Smile. Even I am not building German so we need something Teutonic in here.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    November 2010
  • From: Florida-West Central
Posted by Eagle90 on Saturday, December 6, 2014 5:42 PM

LOL!  My apologies Prof. Bish!  I hope to do you proud with this one!  Bow Down

Eagle90

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Saturday, December 6, 2014 5:46 PM

I am sure you will do a great job on it. You have had enough practice with 234's after all. nearly as bad as my 251 fetish.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    July 2014
Posted by modelcrazy on Saturday, December 6, 2014 6:24 PM

That's correct, Bish. Very sad end to a great ship and crew.

Steve

Building a kit from your stash is like cutting a head off a Hydra, two more take it's place.

 

 

http://www.spamodeler.com/forum/

  • Member since
    April 2013
Posted by SchattenSpartan on Saturday, December 6, 2014 8:03 PM

Ok guys, I made up my mind. Pencil me in for the following:

1/32 Hasegawa P-47D
As far as markings go, I'll try my hand at an NMF bird: a machine of the 79th FG, stationed in Italy in 1945. The fuselage code is X01.
I'm not sure on what AM I'm going to throw at it, but I got some really tasty stuff in my drawer including (but not limited to) Eduard's Big-Ed set and an MDC resin cockpit. I also got some resin engines to choose from...

1/35 Dragon Panther F
This one is optional and it depends on how much time I got on my hands after I'm done with the Thunderbolt, but I guess I at least have to try to build something German...
Should be fun painting it up in some kind of improvised camouflage...

What do ya think?

  • Member since
    October 2009
  • From: Oil City, PA
Posted by greentracker98 on Saturday, December 6, 2014 9:30 PM

That sounds great SS. I'll have to keep an eye on this one

A.K.A. Ken                Making Modeling Great Again

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Sunday, December 7, 2014 3:24 AM

Spartan, love the sound of the Jug. Unfortunately the panther F won't work as an operational vehicle as it never entered service. It got as far as a few partially finished hull found at the factory in April 45. It would deffo fit for the 46 what if GB though. There was the prototype which mounted the F turret on an Ausf G hull hull.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    April 2013
Posted by SchattenSpartan on Sunday, December 7, 2014 1:38 PM

No worries. Sign me up for a StuH 42 then. I got the 1/35 Dragon kit and a nice RB barrel without the muzzle break and oh boy, the StuH looks really bad-A with that one...

Here's a pic of what I'm talking about:

I'm not sure on how I'm going to paint her, but the StuH in this video looks really appealing:

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Sunday, December 7, 2014 2:09 PM

O nice, I like that version. Which kit number is it. And the battle of the Seelow heights fits in perfectly.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    April 2013
Posted by SchattenSpartan on Sunday, December 7, 2014 2:37 PM

It's this one:

I also found a PE set for the schürzen by Armorscale, so I think I got everything I need for this one Big Smile 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Sunday, December 7, 2014 2:43 PM

O, its that one. I wondered why I couldn't find the one without the muzzle brake. What about the Zimm though.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    April 2013
Posted by SchattenSpartan on Sunday, December 7, 2014 2:49 PM

As far as I know most StuHs had Zimmerit apllied and the kit comes with it on there already. I'm not entirely sure though because in the video it looks like it doesn't have any ZImmerit on there. I might have to use a normal StuG and kitbash it with the howizer parts from the StuH...

One thing I have to change though (and I don't have any idea on how to do it) is the MG mount on top.

The StuH in the video has a remote controlled MG like the Hetzer did, but the kit comes with the standard gun shield...

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Sunday, December 7, 2014 2:57 PM

If you look at the ones in the video, they don't have Zimm. I believe the muzzle brake was dropped in Sept 44, at the same time as Zimm was dropped. The MG mount was changed in April 44.

I think the MG mount could be scratched with a bit of work and the right images.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    April 2013
Posted by SchattenSpartan on Sunday, December 7, 2014 2:59 PM

Yeah, I just rewatched the video and it really looks like there ain't no Zimmerit on there (edited my earlier post already Smile)

I do have a normal StuG III G without Zimmerit though, so that means some kitbashing is in order... I'll just take the StuG and the StuH and switch out the guns...

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Sunday, December 7, 2014 3:03 PM

O ye, that's a good solution. And the StuG III gun will fit on the StuH to make a StuG III. Good thinking batman, can't beat a bit of kit bashing. Now we need to just find you that MG mount if possible.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    May 2014
Posted by Nomad53 on Sunday, December 7, 2014 5:27 PM

Hey all, I may have to sit this one out for a time. The money I had put back to get a new USS Missouri had to go to a bill that someone forgot to pay.

Doug

Nomad53


 

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Sunday, December 7, 2014 6:20 PM

Interesting, and apparently true story here, set in 1945 Austria.  German and American troops joined forces to fight off the SS:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/05/12/world-war-ii-s-strangest-battle-when-americans-and-germans-fought-together.html

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: MOAB, UTAH
Posted by JOE RIX on Sunday, December 7, 2014 10:33 PM

Hey Stik and Bish, How's about you sign me up for this shindig. I had too much in the '44 GB so I don't want to miss out on this one. I'm not exactly sure what I'm going to build just yet but, it will be something from the PTO. Checkmate has sure got me considering a ship build after watching his efforts with the USS North Carolina in the '44. I have the IJN heavy cruiser Ashigara or HMS Nelson that would both qualify. But, this coming year time might be limited for me so I might work on either a 1/72 Hasegawa Mitsubishi J2M3 Raiden or maybe my 1/48 Tamiya F4U-1D Corsair. Decisions, decisions. None the less I'll have something for you all. I have to say that there are already some really great subjects to be built here. Looking forward to this.

    Joe

"Not only do I not know what's going on, I wouldn't know what to do about it if I did". George Carlin

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, December 7, 2014 10:45 PM

Joe, I will get you added to the roster here, along with a To Be Announced until you choose your build subject...

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

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