HELICOPTERS - Mi-24 Hind Group build

QUOTE: Originally posted by Higg Duke, I am sure you own the ONLY 1/72 Hind A with the little observation window above the pilot. I am so proud of you, as I am sure others are, that a tear drop fell down my cheek and landed in a paint mix I was working on. I shall use that tear-mixed-paint on my Hind A, as a salute to your dedication. So, with that, don't forget to mask a straight line support frame on that last large piece of overhead glass. It continues from the one that is already running from the nose and up the middle of the canopy. Damn Hasegawa, the mold maker was asleep at the mold mix, AGAIN. Not sure if the Airfix kit did it right. Looking good! And just wondering if you did it all OOB with the exception of the small overhead window? Higg

Gee, thanks Higg! A teardrop eh? Lol! That is high praise coming from so great a builder indeed! I am humbled watching your work develop in this thread Higg, you truly are gifted beyond anything I could do.

Thank you also for the word on the canopy support frame that passes up the middle! I would have missed that! I shall get right on that!

And yes, everything I did on this kit is OOB, except for the little window. The only other thing that will be extra is the Libyan national insignia that I'll be putting on it.

Now, back to the build......

Damn Duke,

You're gonna make me cry AGAIN. I'm no super-builder talent kind-of-guy. I'll have you know that this is my FIRST model in a little over 10 years. I'm just a regular guy who loves the Hind A, is hard-headed, reads modeling tools n'tips stories, chucks in the trash and re-does scratchbuilt parts over and over until they look pretty much like the photos, and then photographs the results in a certain way as to conceal the un-polished areas. Those are my keys to scratch-building success. And I'm serious.

But thanks for pumping me up. I only wish I could translate that into some mad-scratchbuilding skills so I'd only have to do a part once!

Higg

Well, Higg, I daresay, you are definitely great at what you do, even if you chuck a few pieces now and then, and I never would have guessed at the difficulties you've mentioned. Thanks for those scratchbuilding tips, I will have to start trying them out myself. I know this is 'slightly' off-topic, but I have a Matchbox 1/72 scale Monty's Caravan that I just got some interior pics of. I want to scratch-build the furniture and such to put inside it to look like the photos. I'd appreciate your ideas on how to go about doing that. Use my E-mail on my Profile to send your ideas so we can keep this on-topic. I'll even send copies of my photos if you want.

Thanks again Higg and keep going! your work is a great inspiration to all us Group Builders in this Build!

You guys are really comming along with the Hinds. Kinda makes me go rebuild my 1/48 one. What's the general consensus on the Trumpeter 1/35 one so far?

hey everyone!!! who want some fun?!! lets see how much stuff is wrong with this pic?
http://www.lo-mac.com/screens.php?id=2606

hers one of mine:
mg is mouneted under nose, even though there are covers over the exaust.

I think you're right t3488g.
Judging by the engine covers it's supposed to be a Hind-D and that version has the side mounted MG.

(I love ya like brothers but) I'm gonna have to send ya both to the smack-down hotel. The photo is completely consistent with Russia's Hind fleet. The Hind E (Sov: V) sports your regular 4-barrelled YakB 12.7 gun and AT-6 Spirals on the wing-tips. Baffeled exhausts were standard (eventually) on all Hind E's and F's during combat in Afghanistan and Chechnya, as well as the faired-on flare dispenser near the aft positioned commie star. It is the Hind F (Sov:P) model that sports the side-mounted twin GSh-30K cannon. One thing I WOULD fault the simulation for, is I have never seen Russian Hind tail boom numbers done in a single digit (they show it with a "5"). It should read "05" if I've observed typical Hind tail boom numbers right.

Higg

Undoubtedly, you made a whole lot of research for your superior scratchbuilding, Higg, so I won't question your knowledge, but this picture

is labeled as an early Hind-D. As you can see it features a side mounted MG.
I don't want to start a fight, it's just that I don't want to go to the smack-down hotel !!!
And anyway ... I've got two stars and you only one so I can't be wrong!!

the covers over the exaust wer put in during afganistan to defend against heat seeking stingers. they are on the mi-35s though

Damn, hey no fair you guys can't gang up on a dude.

That is an interesting pic you posted Avus. YES, It is a D model. But it is being used as a pre-production prototype F model, "Red 70," I believe. You can tell because if you look at the missile director pod it's round like the one used for the AT-6 (E and F), and not semi-circle as used for the AT-2 (Hind D).

MI-35 = export designation.

The second distinguishing feature between the D model with the E and F model: the gunner electro-optical fairing under the gunner cockpit is alot stubbier on the F model, while both the E and F have a large "pimple" on the side of the EO fairing. The biggest visual difference between the D model and the later models is that the D model (like the A model I'm working on) carried AT-2s and the accompanying massive Swatter rails on the wingtips. The E (and subsequent models) don't have the rails because they carry the AT-6 Spiral, which is a small "H" shaped mount for the Spiral missile tube.

Anyway, this is all just splitting pubic hairs, as all D models do NOT have a side mounted mg. Trust me, I did maintenance on the D/E/and F models. We got about a half dozen of them in the U.S. Army.

Phew, you guys are a tough crowd! I'm spent!

Higg

Ok, ok, Higg, you convinced me. I'm never gonna argue with you again.

Talking about our models: yesterday I eventually started painting the canopy. I'm still figuring out how to mask the helo before airbrushing it ... those open panels are a pain in the a**!

Avus,
I am working on the 1/35 Trumpeter Hind 24-V and am trying to think ahead about the painting, too. I think I have cracked the problem.
Having detailed all the interior bits and pieces I want to and seeing how well the interior parts fit into the fuselage halves, I have decided to paint the fuselage halves BEFORE putting the thing together. My intention is to mask a strip about 1/4" wide along the top and bottom edges of the fuselage halves and then spray them individually. I will probably seal, decal and varnish as well before joining the halves together. The scheme I have picked has a solid colour along the top of the fuselage and another solid colour along the underside. MUCH easier to mask!
If I do it this way, all I have to do is mask and spray the spine joint and the underside joint and, of course, the canopy when everything's together.
Sounds radical and it may be a bit late if you have already fixed the fuselage halves!
However, I think this might just work ...... Time will tell.....

Colin
If I understood correctly you won't use a camouflage scheme, so your idea of painting before fitting the halves might work.
I alreay glued them together and besides I'm going to make the "Blue 04" with the sand/green camo scheme.
But thanks for your suggestion.
My solution is the following: I close all the panels and hatches temporarily with strips of bi-adhesive tape, paint and then open them again. Of course I have to see how large tha gaps are first. In case I could seal them with some Maskol.

The interior parts fit well into the halves but the two halves don't match exactly; I had to fill and sand a lot. Maybe if you cut away the pins, the ones that should make the parts fit together perfectly, on part A2 the halves will fit better.

Avus,
I am building the Tiger scheme in two shades of grey and using the decals in the kit. Looking carefully at the markings sheet, there should be no overlap of the two colours on the fuselage joints, so my system might just work!
If you have the halves together, you are right to go with the temporary fitting of the doors and openings.
I see you have a problem with the fit of the fuselage parts. I will check mine carefully before getting out the airbrush.
Best of luck.

Colin,
The Tiger-scheme looks really good. The shopkeeper of my hobby-store suggested that I made mine in that scheme, too, but I want to make a small dio in Afghanistan or Chechenya (how ever you write that name), so I will use the soviet/russian paint scheme.

I haven't made up my mind wether to leave the engine covers open or closed. If I have them closed you can't see the engines, but if I left them open I should have some figure doing maintainance on the engines.

By the way I found the "Soviet Motor Rifle Troops" I did many years ago. It's a DML kit they took off their catalog.
The scale matches exactly the one of the russian troops from ICM. The differences are in the headgear, rifle troops have a bear-hat and the others have a cloth cap, in the collar,rifle troops with fur and the others without, and in the shoes, the rifle troops have plain boots that go almost up until the knee and the other ones have combat boots.
Can this difference in the equipment be justified by the different specialization of the soldiers, the ones are motor rifle and the others are plain infantry or maybe airborne troops?
Here is a picture to show what I'm talking about:
http://www.freeimagesolutions.com/ims/pic.php?u=67374vKC&i=17200

And here is a pic of the canopy:
http://www.freeimagesolutions.com/ims/pic.php?u=67374vKC&i=17199
I gave it a black base paint because from the inside you should see a black frame and not a sand colored one.

Avus,
I will be leaving my engine covers closed. I have had a look at pictures of the engine compartment, and although Trumpeter give a good starting point, there are so many pipes, cables and plumbing to add, it could take the rest of my life! As for figures, I am restricting myself to a couple which I have converted from various sources. It is difficult to find exactly the right figure for what you want. In frontline service, many troops adapt and adopt various standards of uniform to meet the conditions they are serving in, and as a result it is nearly impossible to find the exact combination of clothing, hats/helmets, kit and footwear. I have found that you are just as well to convert a figure using alternative heads/legs/arms and a good filler to make the uniform changes you want than to search for a manufacturer who has produced exactly what you need.
I am currently making up the many bits of wiring and instruments which fit on the inside of the canopy framing in both the pilot and CPG cockpits. There are blown air pipes, electrical cables, another fan and another mirror and its support to be added to the kit. I will have to paint the canopy framing on the inside before I add these bits and pieces, since trying to mask and paint after they have been added will be impossible!
Oh, the troubles we put ourselves through for a good-looking model!

Avus: are those 1/72? probaly 1/35
and why is you cockpit purple?

Question - during Afghan early-80's, did Soviet Hinds have red/white/red paint markings on the tail rotor's (at the end of each rotorblade). I can't find any photos of Soviet Invasion Hind D's, esp 'Yellow 02', which is quite popular with all the model companies decal selection (did this chopper ever exsist - if so, any photo's?).

Colin,
I guess I'll close the engine covers; it looks better. I'll leave only one cargo door and the cockpit hatches open.
As I said before, hearing all of the modifications and corrections you are making on your Hind makes me want to start over again. Usually I'm very picky on my models. I just completed a Littlebird with lots of scratchbuildnig, including some figures. So this time I wanted to relax and build the kit out of the box. Even though I'm starting to regret it.


t3488g,
I'm sorry they are 1/35!
The purple color is a special coating the soviets used in the end of the afghan war. It was upposed to be anti reflective so you couldn't spot the helo because of the shiny glass.
It's just Maskol (a masking liquid like Micro Mask).

Avus,
I know what you mean. With all the aftermarket bits and pieces, brass, resin, new decals and so on it is easy for a hobby task to become a real pain! I sometimes have to build one 'out-of-the-box' just to bring back the fun!
However, having paid for the big Hind and seeing how much can be visible, I feel it justifies the time taken to add all the detail which is missing from the kit. Because this kit is so new, there are no aftermarket bits to be fitted, so all my additions will have to be scratchbuild from plastic sheet, wire, sprue, lead foil, tape and so on. Having to do the work this way makes - in my humble view - a better model builder rather than just an assembler. There is also a great deal of satisfaction in finishing the extra detail for little or no cost!
I have huge respect for those builders who pay good money for the resin update sets, replacement seats, new decals and brass bits, but this Hind will have none of them. Back to basics for me!

Higg, if you're out there, I need your assistance. After much hacking and sawing I've managed to get the basic configuration done for converting Hasegawa's
1/72 Hind A to a "two seater". I only have good interior photo references for the later models, so I am using your posts as a photo resource for the conversion.
Since you seem to be the "go to guy" on the subject, perhaps you can help. The starboard side photos are my greatest source of confusion. (1) What is the blue "park bench" to the right of the pilot's seat? (2) There is a slightly raised area behind the "park bench"; what is it and is there any detail on the wall above it?(3) Are there any "black boxes" and equipment storage in the passage
between the flight deck and troop compartment. (4) The area behind the pilot in the "D" and later models is quite busy with ducting, wires and auxilliary equipment. Is it similar in the "A" model.(5) The offset panel behind the pilot...
what is it?
Your photos have been a huge help. I was able to rig a proportionate scale
to determine approximate measurements for the conversion. one final question...are there any rear view mirrors on this beast? The pilot must have had a tough time "checking six". We spent many hours while I was in the service discussing our chances of a successful combat encounter beween our AH-1's and the "Hind". If I knew then what I know now, there would have been a lot less doubt in my mind of our chances for success. Thanks in advance for any assistance you may be able to render.

Snakedriver,
Hot damn, you're going to make right the Hasegawa kit! Here's what I think is going on in the cabin (cleared these responses with my lawyer, first).

1) The "park bench" is a very generous instrument panel layout for the pilot. Basically, everything is on his right-hand side. As far as the individual instruments go, I would love to sit in the real Hind A, drink a beer, and figure them all out with a -10 manual in my lap (or just start flipping switches and see what happens). At a 45 degree angle is the pilot "moving map display." In all early Hinds its just a thin paper map image that moves in relation to the aircraft's doppler navigation.

2) Dunno what you mean about the slightly raised area behind the right side instrument panel. There is a very large circuit breaker panel (answer to your question #5) catty-corner behind the pilot. It has about 150 simple metal switches upper, and old school pumpkin orange circuit breakers in a square cut-out, lower. There is also a flight box that sits on a little stand about 3 feet high directly under the massive circuit panel switch, like it was an afterthought and the Sov's realized they didn't make room for it on the spacious park bench. There is gray, curved metal backside behind the park bench when you look through the starboard side pilot window.

3) There are black boxes. No good pics of them, but the color and set-up of the shelves behind the pilot are almost the same color as the "pumpkin colored" circuit breaker switches. 5 white push-pull tubes come up under the floor and rest at a 45 degree angle against the closet wall behind the pilot's seat.

4) There is not alot of ducting evident at all in the pics behind the pilot seat. It is pretty organized and simple and some wires are organized and connected individually to the left of the push-pull tubes.

A very visible blue-colored fire extinguisher is seen hanging in two diff areas in diff pics. Either stowed vertically eye-level between the left side of the pilot seat (if you're sitting in the seat) and the port side interior wall before the sliding pilot door. Or it is stored in two hasps and hung horizontally off the upper eyelash frame. Can see em in the uploaded pics.

No mirrors are evident in any pics to check the six. But there are some round ones on the D, E, and F models I've seen.

I think you are already using them, I uploaded almost all the Hind A cockpit pics I could find here.
http://users.cablemo.net/~higg/public_html/

Hind A troop cabin pics circa 1980:
http://users.cablemo.net/~higg/public_html/MI-24%20Hind%20A%20Cockpit%20Photos/Hind%20A%20Cabin%20Pics%20thanks%20Azie!/

They are finally organized. Go through them all and make sure you already have them.

Were you in Fulda Gap with the 11th ACR?

I'll start on my Hasegawa Hind A after my 1:35 deal. Post some pics when you get the chance. I'm sure you noticed the little observation window on the port side above the pilot? I think you'll have the only accurate 2-seat Hasegawa Hind A in the world when this is done.

Higg

And bigger version of pic posted below:
http://users.cablemo.net/~higg/public_html/MI-24%20Hind%20A%20Cockpit%20Photos/MI-24%20Hind%20A%20Pilot%20Photos/Hind%20A%20Cockpit%201.JPG

Higg,
Thanks for the info. I'm finished with the basic cockpit conversion and I'm looking forward to doing tthe various instrument panels and boards. The seats need to be scratchbuilt also. The Hasegawa parts don't cut it. If you come across any new stuff I would appreciate a "heads up".
I flew for the 1st Cav. Got to work with the 11th ACR in the "Fish Hook" area
of RVN. Once got to "Nail" a couple of their tracks that got ambushed in tall grass and brush. Scratched the paint and holed some of their rucks, but cleaned the bad guys off 'em.

Higg,
Those push-pull tubes behind the pilot...are they functional or spare parts?
They don't look like they go anywhere. Also they look to be a couple of inches in diameter. Any idea of the dimensions on those? Sorry to be so picky, but they are such an obvious item (backed by that red wall) that I want to get them right.

Ah, you go way back, Snakedriver. Thanks for the background.

Last night I updated all the Hind A cockpit photos I have, so bigger versions are available in the cockpit folder here: http://users.cablemo.net/~higg/public_html/

I zoomed in on the area in question to make it clearer. The push-pull tubes, it appears, go through the wall. The wall is actually recessed were the tubes go into, and there is a matching white "cover plate" over the area where we'd be able to see the tubes going through. You can follow the tubes from the floor, up to the cover plate (bottom pic). This is my SWAG (Scientific Wild ****** Guess) on it. Somebody, I say, Somebody who's got better pics or sat in the damn thing drop down on this net.

Higg
Clear here for bigger, clearer version:
http://users.cablemo.net/~higg/public_html/MI-24%20Hind%20A%20Cockpit%20Photos/MI-24%20Hind%20A%20Pilot%20Photos/Push-Pull%20Tubes.jpg


http://users.cablemo.net/~higg/public_html/MI-24%20Hind%20A%20Cockpit%20Photos/MI-24%20Hind%20A%20Pilot%20Photos/Push-Pull%20base.jpg

What are the rules for this group build? Is it closed to admittance? What's the cut-off date, if any? Thanks.

I finished! Just pulled the masking off this morning before heading to work, and it looks pretty good (I think). Camouflage turned out darker than I had originally planned, but other than that I'm pleased.

Will post pictures as soon as I can...no digital, I'm working with "real" film here.

I am almost finished myself. I have the armament done, and the rotor assembly built, and the helo is clearcoated and ready for decals. I just have to dig them out and get them applied to the model. I'll post pics in a bit.

Hey guys, I'd like to get into this one, if I can. Is it still open?

QUOTE: Originally posted by Larry_Dunn What are the rules for this group build? Is it closed to admittance? What's the cut-off date, if any? Thanks.

Damn' it! I gotta hurry if I wanto to catch up with you guys. Today I'll give it a coat of primer and tomorrow I'll paint it (at least I hope).

Larry_Dunn we never set any dates, except maybe an end date to join wich was june 1st. But I might be wrong. It's all a little confused so I'm sorry I can't help.

To my fellow group builders:
MAYBE WE SHOULD SET SOME DATES!!!