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Battle of the Coral Sea Group Build 4 May, 2017 - 8 May, 2018

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  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Monday, August 7, 2017 2:57 PM

CM, unfortunatly, Hasagawa doesn't have SBDs or TBDs. They usually are molded in grey or green, mostly due to the fact they do a lot of IJN.  I have a few Fujimi SBDs and they are molded real nice and were in blue.  The clear really messes with me.  I didn't see the sink holes until after I painted the planes.

GM, for mounting, I glue mine, usually with white glue. 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, August 7, 2017 1:55 PM

What's the CW on whether or not to stick these little guys down? I'm inclined not to, in order to dust the thing.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Monday, August 7, 2017 1:41 PM

Good to hear about your progress, Scott.  Looking forward to see the results.

I didn't know Hasegawa made 1/700 aircraft.  Are they clear-molded like Trumpeter?  Something I'll have to look into.  

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Monday, August 7, 2017 7:56 AM

GM, nice work.  

Many like the Trumpeter planes, myself, in 1/700, these tiny wheels are driving me insane. Most the planes have sink marks that need filling.  My personal preference is still Hasagawa for 1/700 aircraft.  

I am about 1/2 way through getting all the planes assembled then it will be time to touch up and then decal.  My Lex is pretty much done now except for the aircraft.  

CM, I looked for canopy masks when I built mine, didn't have much luck finding them.  

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Friday, August 4, 2017 6:23 PM

Nice work, GM.  The planes are looking good already.  The decals appear to have turned out very well.  

Scott:  It's MicroMask filling in the outline.  It's tedious framing the windows with masking tape first, but mostly it works fine.  I didn't consider whether there are after-market masks available for the Airfix Devastator.  Have to look next time.

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, August 4, 2017 2:56 PM

I've been working on the airwing while I add PE to the ship at the same time.

I have a fair sized collection of Navy WW2 decals, but was short on tail stripes. Both the extra TBD and SBD sets I bought came with Midway era decals. For some reason my F4F-4 set came with Coral Sea era ones.

So I've printed up an extra decal sheet with all of the tail feathers I could need. I debated whether to paint the tails white and print the red on clear film or to print on white and trim extra carefully. In end end I opted for printing on white because I was having a tough time getting a good red out of the printer.

Brother inkjet, Testors decal paper, Trumpeter decals. I got a better print from a direct copy of the decals than I did from scans, which I at least will save.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Friday, August 4, 2017 2:03 PM

Liquid mask?  Hmmm, as thick as that canopy was, I wish I would have used it on mine instead of painfully cutting masks for it.  

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Friday, August 4, 2017 12:38 PM

Back at it again.

Got the fuselage closed up.

Finished the landing gear.  Not much detail here, but I added a black pin wash where there was some.

Masked the canopies; and a fun job that was.

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, August 2, 2017 5:51 PM

scottrc

 Hi Stick, your right, that is a great read.  My local library has it and I need to check it out again. 

 

Yes it is. I need to get a new copy, preferably hardbound. My original paperback one from way back when is beaten beyond help...

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Wednesday, August 2, 2017 3:35 PM

Impressive airpower, GM.  They'll look good on the flight deck!

Scott:  no worries; just got back from a three-day road trip, so I've got plenty to catch up with, too.

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Tuesday, August 1, 2017 1:47 PM

 Hi Stick, your right, that is a great read.  My local library has it and I need to check it out again.

GM, after the blue top coat, those planes will be camouflaged in the blue painters tape.

CM, I have not made it to the bench for the last two weeks.  Work has been keeping me away.  

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, July 31, 2017 11:54 PM

Air Wings under construction.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, July 28, 2017 12:47 AM

scottrc

Yup, it was over at MWS under Calling all Enterprise Fans page 32.  They were talking about any documentation that might exists on the order of deck spotting for the Enterprise for the morning of the June 4th Midway strike, and someone gave a link that showed the order for the Lexington on May 7, 1942.

 

 

Thanks, Scott. I found that link- Wildcats/ Dauntless/ Devastators.

The Devastators had to haul a 2,000 lb torpedo down the deck with a 900 hp engine so I get why they were given the longest takeoff run.

 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Thursday, July 27, 2017 9:29 PM

scottrc

Yup, it was over at MWS under Calling all Enterprise Fans page 32.  They were talking about any documentation that might exists on the order of deck spotting for the Enterprise for the morning of the June 4th Midway strike, and someone gave a link that showed the order for the Lexington on May 7, 1942.

 

 

If you've ever read "Incredible Victory" by Walter Lord, it is mentioned that from Enterprise that the SBDs launched first and spent time circling the ship and climbing before being sent on alone due to a TBD breaking down on the flight deck prior to launch. Meanwhile (again according to Lord's book) Hornet launched with Torpedo 8 leading and the SBDs and F4Fs following on.  40 some odd years after first reading this book, it is still one of my favorite reads.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Thursday, July 27, 2017 3:43 PM

Yup, it was over at MWS under Calling all Enterprise Fans page 32.  They were talking about any documentation that might exists on the order of deck spotting for the Enterprise for the morning of the June 4th Midway strike, and someone gave a link that showed the order for the Lexington on May 7, 1942.

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, July 25, 2017 6:44 PM

scottrc

Thanks GM,

Was it you trying to find how these were spotted on deck?  I seem to remember someone inquiring the arrangement either here or on MWS.    

 

Sure, and it wasn't me but I would appreciate that information, if it's known. Somewhere I read I think that the TBDs were last, but I don't remember where.

Thats my current way of thinking for my model.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, July 25, 2017 6:35 PM

checkmateking02

 

 
scottrc

42 aircraft are for both the Lexington and the Enterprise.  I cannot believe I am about  done with this kit.  I started it on 5/22, so its a little over two months.  That might be a record for me.  

 

 

 
It's hard to fit the requisite number of aircraft on the Tamiya Yorktown class, since the kits are a little underscale.  But it appears from photos, that the flight deck was a crowded place during launches.
 
Actually, two months isn't so bad for a ship with the level of detail you're going for.  It's a record you can be pleased about!
 

Two months is fast!

I don't have a lot of info, but the Yorktown Strike on the morning of the 8th looks to be:

Bombing 5 (Short): 17! SBDs.

Scouting 5 (Burch): 7 SBDs.

Torpedo 5 (Taylor): 9 TBDs.

Fighting 42 (Fenton): 6 F4Fs.

Anti-Torpedo-Plane Patrol was:

VS-5 (Woodhull): 8 SBDs.

VF-42 (Flatley Jr.): 8 F4Fs.

CYAG Pederson remained on the ship to run combat fighter operations.

 

I recently read somewhere that the SBD was the only bomber in WW2 to have a positive air-to-air kill ratio.

 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, July 25, 2017 5:47 PM

Just like building cannons for a sailing ship....

 

15 for Lex, 2 for Hornet.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Monday, July 24, 2017 5:14 PM

scottrc

42 aircraft are for both the Lexington and the Enterprise.  I cannot believe I am about  done with this kit.  I started it on 5/22, so its a little over two months.  That might be a record for me.  

 

 
It's hard to fit the requisite number of aircraft on the Tamiya Yorktown class, since the kits are a little underscale.  But it appears from photos, that the flight deck was a crowded place during launches.
 
Actually, two months isn't so bad for a ship with the level of detail you're going for.  It's a record you can be pleased about!

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Monday, July 24, 2017 1:39 PM

Thanks GM,

Was it you trying to find how these were spotted on deck?  I seem to remember someone inquiring the arrangement either here or on MWS.    

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, July 24, 2017 12:34 PM

0915 on May 8th, 1942.

CLAG Ault with 4 SBDs.

VF-2  Gayler with 9 F4Fs.

VT-2 Brett with 12 TBDs.

VB-2 Hamilton with 11 SBDs.

36 aircraft in all.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Monday, July 24, 2017 11:23 AM

42 aircraft are for both the Lexington and the Enterprise.  I cannot believe I am about  done with this kit.  I started it on 5/22, so its a little over two months.  That might be a record for me.  

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Sunday, July 23, 2017 12:04 PM

Scott:  yes, I planned on closing the canopy over the pilot position, but leaving off the one for the gunner.  The kit canopy over the pilot is too thick to fit over the rear canopy without a lot of sanding and then polishing, and the only vacu-formed ones I could find were at Hannants in the UK.  I don't currently have enough "needs" to make an order cost effective.

But I do have several TBD kits for the future.  Might try it then.

Forty-two aircraft is going to give you a pretty full flight deck.  And that will be impressive. 

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Sunday, July 23, 2017 11:58 AM

That'll be a nice touch, GM.  Looking forward to seeing how you add the wires and all.  I've only built in 1/700, so haven't had to attend to so much detail.

And, to add to the interior color issue, there is this from Martin Walgorski's article at  http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2004/05/stuff_eng_interior_colours_us_part3.htm

"Douglas SBD Dauntless

In production from mid-1939 to1944, the SBD was another long-runner in the US Navy inventory. Not much appears to be known for certain about its interior finishes. Some sources state the SBD-1s most probably had Aluminium lacquer interiors, while others claim some Mixed Green/Interior Green with Zinc Chromate for the remaining airframe. Camouflaged mid-production SBD-2 through SBD-5 series almost certainly had Interior Green cockpits."

The article does not mention the TBD directly, but given Dana Bell's claim, it seems odd that the Navy would specify Bronze Green for Devastators and Interior Green for Dauntlesses.  

Anyway, thanks for posting the photo, stik.  Maybe it boils down to using whatever paint was at hand--either at the point of manufacture or at the squadron level.  

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Sunday, July 23, 2017 8:45 AM

Great info there CM.  So you are going with a closed canopy?  I have mine opened up and a good amount of the interior shows.  So much that I wish I would have taken the time to detail it instead of just leaving it OOB.  I also should have tried to vac form a canopy.  The MPC kit had one thick enough that it should have been alright to make one off of it.  

I too started the airwings for the Lex.  Between the Lex and Enterprise, I have 42 aircraft to install wheels, props, and airwing markings.  That will take a few evenings of steady work. 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, July 22, 2017 10:27 PM

Very nice work there boss.

Just getting to my airwing.

I've been working on arrestor wires all week.

The Trumpeter model (1/350) does a good job of molding the sheaves and springs into the deck, although not raised detail. I'm skipping the springs but adding the sheaves and the wires.

Eight at the stern and eight at the bow.

I couldn't find much detail contemporaneous with early 1942, but in general arrestor wires were left in place and on their springs at all times. This means on the Lex that aircraft took off over them in whichever way they departed (Wink Stik).

I'm going to hold off on posting pictures, which I will add here, until I get it done including the sheave covers.

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, July 22, 2017 8:16 PM

Well, Torpedo 6 in 1941 was using Interior Green on their TBD cockpits. At least some of them

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:32 PM

Since finishing up the RAF GB, I've devoted attention to both Coral Sea and Midway builds. For Coral Sea, made some progress on the Devastator cockpit.

Ran across this from Dana Bell while doing research:

"The first TBDs reached the fleet (in the form of VT-3) In November 1937. (The last would be delivered in November 1939.) On 13 January 1938, Torpedo Three complained about considerable glare from reflected light inside the cockpits and asked permission to apply flat black to reduce the reflections. On 7 February, BuAer asked Commander Aircraft, Battle Force if this was a widespread problem, applicable to other aircraft, or if it was limited to the TBD. The response (on 18 February) from ComAirBatFor noted that the problem was widespread and should be addressed for all naval airplanes. 

In 16 April, BuAer sent color cards of the Armys Bronze Green and Flat Black colors and asked for a fleet test. The report came from NAS San Diego on 3 October. I mis-remembered the details here, but FOUR TBDs were painted (with no BuNos provided). Two aircraft had Flat Black all the way down to the rudder pedals, one had black applied to the inside of the enclosure and the flat surfaces immediately thereunder. The Bronze Green aircraft was a similarly painted partial cockpit. The Bronze Green was reported as a mix of P-27b primer [zinc chromate] and drop black to produce the "proper shade" - note that these pigments cannot produce a true Bronze Green. The aircraft were delivered to VT-3 with a request that the unit report on the effectiveness of the scheme. 

Ive misplaced the VT-3 reply - theres still a heap of filing to do around here - but on 27 March 1939, BuAer noted that there had been considerable correspondence on cockpit colors. Bronze Green was chosen at that date for all new cockpits. Existing aircraft could be repainted at the discretion of the personnel concerned. During major overhauls, all cockpits were to be repainted. 

Thats where my guess that the TBDs were probably repainted before June 1942 came in. First, San Diego (where they would all be based by the time the war broke out) knew the fleet wanted the change made. And if the changes werent made immediately, they certainly would have occurred during any overhaul during the next three years. While I am assuming that San Diego continued to mix darkened primer for the Devastators, they might have actually applied true Bronze Green to some aircraft - its just that Ive never seen any evidence that that occurred."

Source:  http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1327561686/TBD-1+Interior+Colors

Since I'd already painted the cockpit part with Interior Green, I repainted them with Bronze Green.

Added seat belts from masking tape, and painted the ends gold to represent buckles.

Airfix didn't include a decal for the instrument panel.  Eduard made a PE set, but it's out of production, so I printed up the IP instruments on paper and glued them on.  

None of this is going to show up much under the "clear" canopy in the kit.  It's pretty thick, distorted and shows its age.

I used some weathering powders inside the fuselage to break up the color a little.  After I applied the flat coat, the shading pretty much disappeared.

Also added the little observation windows in the foreward area.

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Friday, July 21, 2017 10:35 PM

Scott:  I had to look up your latitude and longitude to figure out where it'll be 100 F.  Hope it doesn't come any further north.

Have fun in the basement.

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Friday, July 21, 2017 2:36 PM

Wow GM, great to see your progress and another Lex under way.  As for me, I started decalling all the planes and at the same time, doing the airgroups for my Enterprise build.  Its supposed to be 100F this weekend, so I  plan to live in the nice cool basement and should have my photo hosting set up this weekend and some progress shots made.

Scott

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