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C-47 Skytrain/Dakota/DC-3 GB

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  • Member since
    August 2016
Posted by Keyda81 on Wednesday, January 9, 2019 12:46 PM

I'll have to check out his channel sometime.  

I've started the masking process, and I'm almost finished.  I'm hoping to get some paint on the plane this afternoon.  Hopefully two out of three colors than I plan on using.  So wish me luck!

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Wednesday, January 9, 2019 1:13 AM
There's a very good YT Channel called Andy's Hobby Headquarters. Andy owns a model shop in Phoenix and builds well and fast. He's a great fan of Tamiya and recommends a technique I'd bet would work great. He takes a bottle of Tamiya and fills it to the top with modeling lacquer thinner (made by Tamiya or Gunze Mr. Color - not hardware store stuff). From watching his painting I'd guess he uses an Iwata Eclipse with a .35 needle. I'd bet real money that his tip would work well. Everything Tamiya makes is good. Just not for me. I modeled a lot when I was a kid - circa 1960. I used Testors everything - glue in a tube and enamel paints. Hand painted natch - I didn't know what an airbrush was. Enamels went out when I got an airbrush - I don't have the space for a spray booth.and my wife didn't even like it when I use Tamiya which are pretty mild. So I got used to water based paints and now I know how they work. Perference and nothing more. I know modelers so good they'd work fine with color crayons. Armor uber-guru Mike Rinaldi is moving toward using acrylics to lay down a base and does everything else with oils. (Testors didn't make oil paints when I was a kid, so I didn't get a head start there either.) Eric

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    August 2016
Posted by Keyda81 on Monday, January 7, 2019 6:53 PM

Eric, Thanks for all the info.  You've got me thinking maybe I would be better off brush painting the craft paint on.  It might be a little thick and leave brush strokes, but maybe I could just thin it a bit with Future, so it flows better.  But not thin enough to run through the airbrush.  Something to consider, and test out.  I do have some areas that would be best blended out with the airbrush though.  Maybe I will go with a 60/40 mix of Future/water and give that a go.  I did test the mix out on a trashed kit, and it was obviously a bit more fragile than model paint, but not as bad as I expected.  

plasticjunkie, I use mostly Model Master enamels myself, I've always just had better luck with them.  I have used a couple Tamiya acrylics, but I still prefer the MM enamels.  They just never fail, lol.  I'll have to check out the Mission Models stuff one of these days.

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Monday, January 7, 2019 6:15 PM

Never had good luck airbrushing craft acrylics even using all the additives mentioned. I do use them for terrain color and other dio work. I recently played with Mission Model Paints and was impressed how they sprayed. They may very well replace my discontinued MM enamel FS colors once I run out of them. 

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Monday, January 7, 2019 6:03 PM

Anyone curious on how to airbrush craft or artist acrylic paints might be interested in the tirade below - if you're not, it will be pointless. I've spent years dabbling in the subject and have been advised by Golden Paints on the subject - and they know everything about acrylics. (They can claim to have invented them.) Forewarned.

Craft paints in my experience are not created equal. They vary in pigment load and general quality of the binder - so if two brands are there, plunge for the more expensive one. The one thing you can count on is that craft paints will be water based acrylics. Check the label - if it says "nontoxic" and "nonflammable" - it's water based. (If the label says nothing it will be water based. Law requires "flammable" and "toxic" materials to be labeled. If you bottle says either, it will be an "acrylic/lacquer" like Tamiya or Gunze. The only claim these brands have to "acrylic" is that you can clean them with water. They act very differently at every step and are excellent for airbrushing but bad for hand painting. That said, some people like water based paints for health reasons - I do not think the acrylic lacquers are dangerous if used properly. I use solvents for cleaning my airbrush, but stick to water based paints out of preference.) People that make craft paints want to sell it to schools - and if your pupils might drink the stuff, you want it to be pretty benign. (I'd guess craft paints might also not use extremely useful but not very healthy pigments like zinc.)

Craft paints are widely available and that's a real plus. If you're lucky enough to live where there is an art supply store (Blick Arts is the biggest in the US) or buying enough stuff to justify an internet buy there's a really good alternative. Blick arts sells the artist version of Vallejo paints. Vallejo started as an artist supply company and only branched into model paints later. (Check their website - it starts with a kind of portal - art or model.) Vallejo "Fluid Acrylics" are identical to Vallejo "Model Color" or "Panzer Aces" and thus thicker than Vallejo "Model Air." Standard pigments go for about $5 for a 4 ounce bottle - ritzy mixing pigments are more, but you'd never find those in modeling sites. That's about half the price of Golden Fluids which are made by the top US artist acrylic company. Blick also has proprietary acrylic fluids that are about the same - I like their "matte acrylics" for hand painting. These will be better paints than craft paints. How much better depends on the quality of the craft paint.

You can airbrush craft and thick water acrylics. If you want good results you need to understand a little how water based acrylics work. (Check a very good YouTube video called "Worst Mistake Acrylic Painters Make" for details.) Water based acrylics are pigments suspended in a binder made by some form of polymer. How thick the binder is will depend upon the purpose of the paint. As craft and many artist acrylics are made for hand brushing (ditto for Vallejo Model Color/Panzer Aces) they'll be fairly thick, which allows them to adhere well and quickly to non-porous surfaces - like plastic. If you thin the polymer heavily with water (I'd say anything over 20% is a risk - 50% won't work) it will go through an airbrush, but when the paint dries the binder molecules (the stuff that makes the paint film adhere) won't be able to reform and the surface will be unstable and probably look bad. A lot of home brew thinners are used - the Future/water is common. It sort of works because Future is very close chemically to a polymer - that's why it's used so commonly by modelers. So your 50/50 Future/Water means you're thinning the paint with 25% water and 25% sort-of polymer. Dried Future will hold the paint film, although I wouln't praise the finish. You will get a gloss finish obviously, but varnish will handle that. This is a good home brew, and easily available. (A usually good modeler on YouTube claims you can airbrush Vallejo Model Color with "retarder medium" which is one bad idea in my book. The stuff is a conditioned polymer, but I'd worry about the finish drying properly. Retarder can be very helpful - in drops - not dollops. The best natural retarder is glycerin - cheap, and really effective - unfortunately your paint may never dry if you use two drops.)

A better solution is to run down a bottle of "Airbrush Medium" which is made by several art companies - Liqutex and Golden are two. Very similar is something Vallejo called "Thinner Medium". They all look the same and will all work. They're white, water-like consistency and simply a thinned polymer that's the same as your paint. So this will go through the airbrush nicely and the pigments will bind perfectly when dry. However, you are cutting the pigment load with thinned paints (that's true regardless of what type of paint you use - this effect is very desireable for many applications) so don't expect the paint to be quite the same color - but it will be close. Mix it about 1:1 with craft or fluid acrylics - or less depending upon your airbrush. You might want to track down some Fluid Retarder and use a bit to avoid tip dry - just follow the instructions. All of this stuff can be found on Amazon, but the Blick web site will sell it for less. (I wouldn't experiment with flow improvers made for latex like Floetrol - the stuff is very cheap, but latex and modeling acrylics aren't really quite the same animal. But it's all water solable so who knows?)

If you want to know how acrylic paints work Golden has a splendid web site that's filled with information of all kinds. Artists are good customers and very picky. And there are also more of them. Model makers pay extreme premiums for the things we use - Golden High Flow acrylics are cheaper per volume than any modeling brand. Vallejo makes super acrylic varnishes and they're a third the price on Blick than from a modeling site.

Eric

 

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    August 2016
Posted by Keyda81 on Monday, January 7, 2019 3:51 PM

GMorrison

The stripes came out well. You'll no doubt hear all about how the stripes were painted on by hand on 6/05/44, but your subject is the restored aircraft and judging from the photos, her stripes are nice and sharp.

I suggest you wait a solid week before putting any masking tape on them. No hurry, find something else to work on.

 

Yep, I've already heard it once, lol.  I just showed said person a picture of Whiskey.  I plan on working on the engines, and the few things I need to scratch build.  I'll probably keep my hands off the plane itself until the weekend.  In fact I just took a trip to the hobby store and picked up some materials so I can work on the engines.  I'll be following lawdog's tutorial.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, January 7, 2019 11:55 AM

The stripes came out well. You'll no doubt hear all about how the stripes were painted on by hand on 6/05/44, but your subject is the restored aircraft and judging from the photos, her stripes are nice and sharp.

I suggest you wait a solid week before putting any masking tape on them. No hurry, find something else to work on.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    August 2016
Posted by Keyda81 on Monday, January 7, 2019 11:50 AM

scottrc

Whew Keyda, I was nervous for you as well since I seem to have really bad luck with bleed, which is why I now always spray a clear coat along my mask.  Spectacular job on those invasion stripes.  Toast

 

Lol, I was seriously waiting for a disaster while I was peeling off the tape.  I was shocked when there was no disaster!  Thank you!

Thanks Mark!

UnwaryPaladin, Thanks!  Haven't really done much taxidermy lately, but I was using craft paints, and oil paints.  Someone posted on one of the Facebook pages about using craft paints, and of course I had to inquire.  Only because I knew matching Whiskey's colors would be impossible, and I felt trying to mix model paints to come up with the right shade would be a lot more costly than trying it with craft paints.  I can also mix up a much bigger batch with the craft paints.  They told me they thin the paint with a 50/50 mix of water and Future.  So I'm going to give it a go, and hope it works out.  I'm going to try to avoid masking over the craft paint if I can.  I might have to do it in a few small areas.  But that's why I painted everything else first.  I'm not worried about masking over the model paint. 

 

  • Member since
    June 2017
Posted by UnwaryPaladin on Monday, January 7, 2019 10:49 AM

Keyda81

Nice!  I did the same thing with mine.  I test fitted stuff and it was great.  Somehow things got fudged up when I glued everything together.  Made some extra work for myself, lol.  Can't wait to see it all painted!  Are you doing the camo scheme? 

 

Yes, going with the camo scheme. Keyda, the stripes really turned out nice! What kiind of paint do you use for your taxidermy work? I've found the Wildlife Colors brand works fairly well on plastic. Craft paints have been hit or miss for me. Haven't had much luck with the gloss craft paints yet.

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Denver, Colorado
Posted by MrStecks on Monday, January 7, 2019 10:11 AM

deattilio
The engines look great.  Nice work on the wiring!

Keyda
Beautiful job on the stripes, they look great.  Really coming together nicely.

UnwaryPaladin
Looks like it's shaping up nicely.  It's frustrating to test fit something and not see any issues, only to have it go south when the glue gets applied.  Looks like you're handling it well. 

Cheers,
Mark


On the bench:  Revel 1/48 B-25J Mitchell

In the queue: Tamiya 1/48 F4U-1A Corsair

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Monday, January 7, 2019 10:01 AM

Whew Keyda, I was nervous for you as well since I seem to have really bad luck with bleed, which is why I now always spray a clear coat along my mask.  Spectacular job on those invasion stripes.  Toast

  • Member since
    August 2016
Posted by Keyda81 on Monday, January 7, 2019 8:45 AM

Nice!  I did the same thing with mine.  I test fitted stuff and it was great.  Somehow things got fudged up when I glued everything together.  Made some extra work for myself, lol.  Can't wait to see it all painted!  Are you doing the camo scheme? 

  • Member since
    June 2017
Posted by UnwaryPaladin on Sunday, January 6, 2019 9:42 PM

Got a chance to work on Spooky after the holidays. Sometimes I create my own problems. Based on numerous dry fittings, the fuselage halves could have gown together with very little seam work. Somehow I wound up with a step in the seam that took some work to fix. 

 

The lower part of the center wing fit well, then the wing halves are attached.

Pretty big bird for 1/72!

The only parts of the wing assembly that will need work are the engine nacelles. They assemble with a verticle seam, I would think a radial seam matching the panel lines would be just as easy to cast. An exhaust pipe fits into the groove, I think I can blend the putty under it so the transition will be hidden. The other side of that nacelle fits fine, go figure.

After I finish cleaning up the nacelles and a few other small areas, she'll be ready for paint!

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Towson MD
Posted by gregbale on Sunday, January 6, 2019 8:18 PM

Keyda81
Lots of tape pulling, accompied with some stress, lol. Drum roll please.............Big Smile

Looking really good there, K! Your patience and hard work really paid off!Yes

Greg

George Lewis:

"Every time you correct me on my grammar I love you a little fewer."
 
  • Member since
    August 2016
Posted by Keyda81 on Sunday, January 6, 2019 8:10 PM

So after doing the shopping this morning I spent the rest of the day working on the invasion stripes.  That was a bit challenging, stressful, and tedious.  Also my first time painting them.  I know it seems kind of backwards to put the stripes on already, but I can mask them off and not worry about pulling the paint. 

Started off with masking off the white area and spraying that.

Then came the tedious part.  Masking off the areas that I wanted to stay white.  Lots of measuring, cutting tape down to size, and measuring again, lol.  That Tamiya tape for curves was a life saver when it came to the stripes on the fuselage.  I opted to paint the de-icing boots in the same shot.  All ready for the black.  I got nervous at this point, lol.

Hanging out in the paint booth after spraying the black. 

Lots of tape pulling, accompied with some stress, lol.  Drum roll please.............Big Smile

I'm thrilled with how they came out!  I was so expecting major bleeding of the black.  But my paitence paid off.  I made sure everything was burnished down with a toothpick.  I was really waiting for some kind of disaster, lol.  Going to let the paint dry for a few days before I mask it off to paint Whiskey's signature colors.  I'll work on the engines, and other stuff for now.

  • Member since
    August 2016
Posted by Keyda81 on Sunday, January 6, 2019 4:24 PM

deattilio

 

Some nice work and progress in the GB!  Feeling like I’m still tethered to the start line with my kit.
Didn’t get much time at the bench but, took care of some tedious details.  Plug wires were bit of a pain but were easier than those seatbelts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Those engines look great!  I hope mine come out half as nice!  I haven't started on mine yet.  I'm going to work on those while I let the craft paint dry.  I left the engines and some scratch building to do so I had something to do while paint dries.  I have a hard time leaving things alone, lol.  I've got the white painted on for the invasion stipes.  Letting that dry before I mask it and do the black.  Then it's on to the craft paints.  Wish me luck!

  • Member since
    October 2005
  • From: New Port Richey
Posted by deattilio on Sunday, January 6, 2019 4:10 PM

 

Some nice work and progress in the GB!  Feeling like I’m still tethered to the start line with my kit.
Didn’t get much time at the bench but, took care of some tedious details.  Plug wires were bit of a pain but were easier than those seatbelts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

WIP:
Trying to get my hobby stuff sorted - just moved and still unpacking.

 

"Gator, Green Catskill....Charlie On Time"
 

 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Towson MD
Posted by gregbale on Sunday, January 6, 2019 10:59 AM

MrStecks
I had to cut off the locator pins at the top of the struts and sand them a bit to get the gear to hang vertically instead of canted off to the left or right.

Mark, I appreciate the heads-up!

At that scale, it's spindly enough, without having to re-engineer it! Sad

Greg

George Lewis:

"Every time you correct me on my grammar I love you a little fewer."
 
  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Denver, Colorado
Posted by MrStecks on Sunday, January 6, 2019 10:17 AM

Greg, the Roden kit is looking good.  Best wishes with the landing gear, that was the worst part of that kit for me.  I had to cut off the locator pins at the top of the struts and sand them a bit to get the gear to hang vertically instead of canted off to the left or right.

Cheers,
Mark


On the bench:  Revel 1/48 B-25J Mitchell

In the queue: Tamiya 1/48 F4U-1A Corsair

  • Member since
    August 2016
Posted by Keyda81 on Sunday, January 6, 2019 8:25 AM

GMorrison, I wasn't planning on doing any PE other than what came with the kit when I bought it which was the Eduard stuff.  When I opened the box I found a page that showed making it flaps down, and that gave me the idea.  This is pretty much my first venture with PE.  I did alright with the interior stuff, but the flaps just gave me a hard time.  More than likely from my inexpierence.  Live and learn.  They could be better, could be worse.

Eric, Some tools to deal with the PE, and the right glue probably would of helped a lot.  After this build I think I will try to avoid PE, lol.  Thanks for the tips!  If I venture forth into PE again I will certainly give different glue a try, and get some tools as well.

Greg, Looks like you'll be ready for paint soon!  I felt like I wasn't getting anywhere with my repeated putty/sand/prime sessions.  Don't worry you won't be lagging for long lol, I still have TONS to do.  You'll be flying by me soon, lol.  Thanks!  I've certainly learned something from this venture with PE.

 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Towson MD
Posted by gregbale on Sunday, January 6, 2019 7:00 AM

Lagging well behind everybody else, but I finally got my wee Roden 'beastie' on the production line. Fuselage together, canopy and wings on, clear parts masked for eventual painting.

Did a bit of 'pre-contouring' at the rear base of the canopy area where either the canopy is too narrow or the fuselage too wide...a little putty should blend everything nicely.

The kit provides both the short and long nacelle intakes...though, oddly, it doesn't actually mention the shorter ones, which I'll need for my RCAF bird. I'll also have to lop off the tail cone, which was mainly a feature of civil a/c and rarely found on military marks.

Really inspiring work on the builds, everyone! EBergerud, the mini-tutorial on black-basing was hugely instructive; I've been doing a variant of that for years without realizing it had a name!Big Smile And Keyda, I know it was a lot of work, but the flaps look great!

TTFN

Greg

George Lewis:

"Every time you correct me on my grammar I love you a little fewer."
 
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Sunday, January 6, 2019 5:08 AM

EBergerud - really helpful comment.  We all strugle with PE.  Thanks for the info - looking into this vendor.  Cheers!

Thanks,

John

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Sunday, January 6, 2019 4:55 AM

If you don't think ship PE sets the standard for awful - you haven't seen a $200 "super upgrade" set from someone like Prontos or Flyhawk - of course some ship modelers think nothing of spending six months on one model - or a year.

Two gadgets are really useful. Small Shop sells a $10 gadget that's beastly simple but really helpful. It's a clear piece of plexiglass with a beveled side and a handle super-glued on. You can put the thing on top of the PE - see what your doing - keep it in place, and get it off with a blade. Their little bending tool is neat too. But the hold'em gadget is more helpful I'd say. The other gadget is a wax pencil. They're white and have a sticky filling. You put the thing on a PE part, even one very small, and it should stick - but not hard so it comes off easy when in position. This is a $2 item. (A thick toothpick with some beeswax does almost as well.) And of course the most important ingredient (beyond younger eyes) is Aleene's tacky glue - the stuff grabs PE like magic. Small PE parts often only need Aleene's, but a dab of stupid glue seals the job. Aleene's is available at any fabric store and most hardware stores. Aleene's dries clear.

Eric

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, January 5, 2019 11:49 PM

Keyda81

Thanks, lol.  I feel you pain!  I hate PE!  

 

Well, that's silly.

Not to be a turkey, but it is a thing we can choose, right?

I do find aircraft PE more challenging than ship or armor PE. 

But, you need to learn the skills to deal with it.

There is so much first hand knowledge by folks available online in terms of techniques and tricks.

I think your flaps look ok, and I would say the only thing is to wash them in acid now to get rid of all of your fingerprints.

 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    August 2016
Posted by Keyda81 on Saturday, January 5, 2019 10:41 PM

MrStecks

Keyda,
Nice progress on W7.  I'm impressed with your PE flaps...  and also a little angry.
But that's just because I become angry whenever I see PE, at all.
It just triggers me. lol
(I've been battling with PE this evening on a Fw-190 kit.  Arghhh!)

Cheers,
Mark 

 

Thanks, lol.  I feel you pain!  I hate PE!  I have struggled my way through the flaps.  I'm fine with flat pieces that just need to be glued in place, but when it comes to bending, and constructing tiny parts that need to be glued together I suck, lol.  Everything wants to stick to the tweezers instead of where it's supposed to despite my careful application of glue.  So irritating!  I'm really surprised I didn't land up with the tweezers glued to my fingers, or my fingers glued together.

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Denver, Colorado
Posted by MrStecks on Saturday, January 5, 2019 10:04 PM

EBergerud,
Nice work on the black-basing.  For me I really prefer it now to pre-shading.  Doog's videos are great.

Keyda,
Nice progress on W7.  I'm impressed with your PE flaps...  and also a little angry.
But that's just because I become angry whenever I see PE, at all.
It just triggers me. lol
(I've been battling with PE this evening on a Fw-190 kit.  Arghhh!)

Cheers,
Mark 


On the bench:  Revel 1/48 B-25J Mitchell

In the queue: Tamiya 1/48 F4U-1A Corsair

  • Member since
    August 2016
Posted by Keyda81 on Saturday, January 5, 2019 9:39 PM

keavdog

Comming along nicely.  Lots of progress - interested to see how your craft paint works out.

 

Thanks!  I am too, lol.  I did a test patch on a junk model and masked over it.  A few tiny spots of paint lifted, but that was it.  I'm just going to try and avoid masking over it if I can.  Fingers crossed it works out alright.

 

 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Saturday, January 5, 2019 9:09 PM

Comming along nicely.  Lots of progress - interested to see how your craft paint works out.

Thanks,

John

  • Member since
    August 2016
Posted by Keyda81 on Saturday, January 5, 2019 8:43 PM

Finally got to spend the entire day at my bench, and I have something to show for my time, lol.

I had to scratch make these tubes on the bottom of the fuselage.  I almost missed them in my pictures.

Finally a coat of paint on the underside!

Added the chips on Whiskey's chin.

Painted the outside of the flaps.

Got the control surfaces painted.

Next up I think I'll finish off the bottom of the plane by painting the inner flap sections white.  I'm working in a specific order with the paint.  The upper part of the fuselage, and the wings are likely going to be painted with acrylic craft paint.  I've had a few succesful tests using it thinned with future and water.  I'm aware of the adhesion issues that might pop up with going this route, but it is going to give me a better chance of matching Whiskey's unique colors.  So I'm laying down all the regular model paint first.  I know I can mask over that without issue.  So fingers crossed I get this right.  I may even paint the invasion stripes and de-icing boots before painting the upper part of the wings and fuselage.  Just so I don't have to mask off the acrylic paint at all. 

 

  • Member since
    August 2016
Posted by Keyda81 on Saturday, January 5, 2019 1:19 PM

Thanks Gary!  I wish they looked a bit better, but it is what it is at this point, and I'm trying to the best of my ability.  Most of that portion won't be seen once the flaps are in place anyway. 

Eric, sounds like a place I wouldn't want to live.  It amazes me where some people to choose to live.  Some of the most unforgiving places.

Scott, YesI've wanted to give that painting method a shot myself, but I won't be trying it on Mini Whiskey.  Maybe on my next build which will be the P-40 for the Airfix GB.  Whiskey pretty much lacks noticable tonal differences.  I attempt to highlight things here and there, but I don't know.  I'm already putting my skills to the test with the paint job.

I've been keeping busy with the putty/sand/prime/repeat.  I still have some areas to work on.  I'm hoping I can at least get color on the bottom of the plane by the end of the day.  We'll see.  I'm trying to take care of all the little spots that still need sanding first.

 

 

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