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C-47 Skytrain/Dakota/DC-3 GB

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  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Saturday, January 5, 2019 9:42 AM

I started my Gooney Bird project his morning.

Eric,

Your tutorial came at the best time.  My plane also is going to be a representative of the CBI. I may try this technique on this project.  I have been trying it on my last couple of 1/700 ship projects and the results have been quite impressive.  I never could get pre-shading down. 

Scott

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Saturday, January 5, 2019 5:01 AM

Burma was very bad news for aircraft. No place on God's planet was worse than New Guinea day-in-and-out (except perhaps someplace beastly cold - heat can't kill you). But Burma did have the monsoon and mega mud. When things were really ugly, it grounded man and machine, but what's surprising is that both sides fought through even dreadful conditions. A C47 had very strong under carriage, and was perfect for the rough spots. Not sure what the Commando Air Force was really intended to do - the Wingate deep penetration campaigns were hard to call successful, although I guess Merrill did a little better. I titled my first chapter about the South Pacific "The War Against the Land" - that would do for Burma too. (Of course there were cities, roads, a civilian population and women - all things not there in New Guinea and nice when not fighting - but a major campaign in Burma would have been a blinking nightmare. Good generals though - Slim was very keen and Stillwell was a splendid operational leader - he should have been an Army Commander in the ETO instead of being wasted in China. Put Stillwell in Courtney Hodges' spot and the US might have cracked the Rhine in late 44. Maybe. Or not.

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

GAF
  • Member since
    June 2012
  • From: Anniston, AL
Posted by GAF on Saturday, January 5, 2019 12:51 AM

Keyda> That coming along nicely!  Getting close to laying down some color.  The flaps look great!

Eric> I must admit that the subject I've chosen was stationed in India, so I'm paying close attention to what you're doing here.

I hope I can get started on my C-47 soon, but my current project is giving me fits!

Gary

 

  • Member since
    August 2016
Posted by Keyda81 on Friday, January 4, 2019 8:43 PM

Looking good Eric!  You have certainly spent time doing research for your build!  Look forward to seeing more progress. 

I finally have enough for an update, lol.  After fighting with the flaps from start to finish, they are done.  I still have a lot of tidying up to do with them though.  They don't look the greatest, but you won't see much of it on display.

Started to add some of the exterior PE.

As she sits for the night. 

I still have a little bit of putty/sand work to do, but not much.  Honestly I think I'm getting to a point of being too picky, lol.  Once I start laying down paint, during drying sessions I think I'll follow lawdog's tutorial for radial engines, and start scratch building other things.  Hoping to start putting paint down this weekend!

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Friday, January 4, 2019 5:33 PM

If anyone is having Olive Drab worries, don't. According to Dana Bell the paint was supposed to have seven pigments. When war production started, producers dropped the pigment cadmium because it was used to process armor plate. It also stabilized the OD. In practice, the USAAF insisted on proper camo and proper OD. (ANA 41 is very dark.) But once in the field, the stuff faded with warp speed. It was also matte which helped it fade and also pick up dirt. We see color pics of restored planes in lovely gloss OD applied with modern paints - the one thing a WWII bird would not have looked like. So about anything would work.

Keydra: I did the 1/48 Revell JU-52 - a really good kit, although a late release for Revell. I'd think the old Monogram would be pretty good. Revelogram models were usually nicely shaped. If you look at a DC3, you'll note the zillion rivets - raised panel lines almost get that effect better than recessed, especially at 1/48. I don't have the space, but there's something neat about big models.

John - if you're out there - very nice kits. Did you like the AM B-25? I've got one in my stash but have heard that A) it's one of the greatest kits ever made and B) the kit is horrid and will drive you bats. Not sure if I want to take the plunge. But it is big.

Eric

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Friday, January 4, 2019 5:02 PM

 

I've started the black basing. (For those unfamiliar with the technique there's a really good 8 minute video on YouTube by the fine modeler Matt McDougal whose callsign is Doog. Search "Black Basing" and it's there.) The idea is to avoid pre and post shading altogether and create a random tonal variation. Natural light will cause tonal variation on even a new item - any military artifact in service will show wear very quickly and that amplifies tonal variation. Instead of priming in gray and using black paint to preshade - which provides a "shadow" along the panel lines (a tonal variation - but one that is very symmetrical - very different from the random variation my eyes see) you prime in black and cover the model with very thin squiggles and lines. That's called the mottling phase. Mottling requires "painting small" - you get in very close (less than an inch) and spray thinned paint at very low psi. The color chosen will depend upon the base coat color - a simple mottle would be a lightened version of the base color. More colors cause different tonal variations. Doog does one thing differently than I do. He uses the "acrylic lacquer" paints like Gunze or MRP. There's no question that for this task they're better. However, I use only water based products whenever possible so I don't.

 

 Primed by Eric Bergerud, on Flickr

 

For the first time I tried Mission Model paints a new US made water based acrylic. (Armor super star & graphic artist Mike Rinaldi helped in development and designed the bottles. The bottles, btw, are very good: dropper and ball bearing inside: just like High Flow.) I've used Golden High Flow for a couple of years and think they're splendid. I did want to try Mission Model paints because they had very good renditions of olive drab (including ANA 41 - the very dark OD used on almost all US AC in WWII). A good olive drab is a very hard color to mix on your own. MM paints come with proprietary thinner and a polyurethene conditioner: that may sound like Greek to many, but it's similar to the polymer thinning mediums used for High Flow. Mission doesn't want you to thin their paints as much as many do - I'd thin High Flow at least 50:50 for mottling. With MM I settled for a ration of ten parts paint; three parts thinner and three parts conditioner. I also added a couple of parts of Windsor Newton fluid retarder. WN is very good stuff - just don't use too much or the paint won't dry. The Mission Model conditioner is also a retarder, but I reinforced it because "painting small" will cause tip clog, and you don't want tip dry too. (When mottling you'll want to wipe the tip clean with a paintbrush every few minutes - no problem.) High Flow has ample retarder built in. (I should note that I've been using a Japanese made Creos Platinum airbrush - made in the Iwata factory for Gunze. It is terrific for detail work and has made my Harder Steenbeck obsolete. Unfortunately the nozzle used a very small and requires a special wrench to remove. But it is precise. When you remove the needle, there's almost zero paint on it above the tip - the sign of a well made brush. The basic Creos is $85 and well worth it in my view. I use a .2mm needle.) I did have a little trouble with splatter at first (not hard to do at 1 inch), but when I dropped to the psi down to about 10, things began to work very well. I used two shades lightened OD (cut with yellow - not white - as recommended by US armor guru Steve Zalogda), and lesser mottling with a medium green and white. Here's the result:

 

 Mottle by Eric Bergerud, on Flickr

 

 MottDet by Eric Bergerud, on Flickr

 

After mottling, you apply a highly thinned base coat. (Doog calls this stage "blending.") With High Flow I would have used 60% thinning medium. (Doog recommends 70% thinner with Gunze or MRP). I watched Will Pattison on YT do a two hour review on Mission Model paints and he tried an abbreviated form of black basing. He also noted, correctly, that MM are best applied in thin layers, layers which are quite translucent at low psi. This is very important because if the base coat comes down too heavily, the mottling will be erased. If you've every sprayed preshaded lines out of visibility you know the problem. (Should note that because of the techniques used, black basing requires very little paint. That means fine detail remains very visible.) For this job I used my standard Iwata Eclipse and spray from a normal distance at about 15 psi. It took several coats to build up which is good. I stop applying base coat before it looks done because the acrylics will darken when they dry. You can always add more if needed. But the whole idea is have a lot of tonal variation. I am very happy with the Mission OD ANA 41. It's very dark, and that's accurate. (It's also very matte - that's one difference from the eggshell satin of High Flow.) I came upon an interesting factoid. When looking at C47 pics, it struck me that very often the fabric rear vertical tail appears a different color. According to USAAF color expert Dana Bell, most C47s had this piece constructed in several different factories so it was often done in a different shade of OD. To replicate this, I applied OD ANA 319 - the olive drab that the USAAF was going to use in early 1943 but rarely did because of the switch to natural metal finish a couple of months later. ANA 319 is interesting - as I understand Zalogda, who certainly knows olive drab, this shade is almost identical to that used on American armor and vehicles. It's distinctly lighter. Should note that I haven't done anything to avoid a slight yellow shift from the lighting here. I suppose I'll have to beg my wife to use her iPhone to photograph the finished build. Here what we've got now:

 

 Blend by Eric Bergerud, on Flickr

 

 BlendFus by Eric Bergerud, on Flickr

 

Haven't done the bottom yet, but that's faster. It doesn't look good now, but it's not supposed to. We're thinking a very hard working transport flying in New Guinea a place hard on man, beast and machines. There's a lot of weathering to come: salt fading, oils, panel lines, exhaust/fluids. I may put on a filter to lighten it even more.

 

Eric

 

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Towson MD
Posted by gregbale on Friday, January 4, 2019 9:16 AM

MrStecks

 

 
scottrc

 Hi Mark,

I have built three Roden kits and all three drove me to the verge of a meltdown, so I commend you for doing such a fine job on yours.  I could never use the kits decals.

Scott

 

 

Thanks Scott.  I thought about AM decals, but I bought that kit purely because it was super cheap on eBay, and I couldn't bring myself to put any more money into it.  lol.
Thank goodness my next build is back in good old familiar 1/48.  Yay!

Cheers,
Mark

 

 

Useful to hear all the cautions about the Roden kit.

I've just got the wings and fuselage halves on mine assembled--separately--and so far no problems other than a too-snug wing join.

But I'm not using the kit decals...so I guess I've dodged a bullet there, too.

Great work, all!

Greg

George Lewis:

"Every time you correct me on my grammar I love you a little fewer."
 
  • Member since
    August 2016
Posted by Keyda81 on Friday, January 4, 2019 8:23 AM

I've never had any dealings with a Roden kit yet.  I do have one in the stash.  However I bought after market decals when I bought the kit purely because the AM ones looked cool, lol.  So I guess I'll dodge a bullet there. 

I've been slowly picking away at the interior portion of the PE flaps, and they are driving me insane.  I don't mind the small pieces that simply get glued in place, but bending and trying to construct tiny pieces is making me miserable.  I just hope it turns out alright.  I really should of just made the stuff out of styrene. 

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Denver, Colorado
Posted by MrStecks on Thursday, January 3, 2019 5:04 PM

scottrc

 Hi Mark,

I have built three Roden kits and all three drove me to the verge of a meltdown, so I commend you for doing such a fine job on yours.  I could never use the kits decals.

Scott

Thanks Scott.  I thought about AM decals, but I bought that kit purely because it was super cheap on eBay, and I couldn't bring myself to put any more money into it.  lol.
Thank goodness my next build is back in good old familiar 1/48.  Yay!

Cheers,
Mark

 


On the bench:  Revel 1/48 B-25J Mitchell

In the queue: Tamiya 1/48 F4U-1A Corsair

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Thursday, January 3, 2019 11:56 AM

 Hi Mark,

I have built three Roden kits and all three drove me to the verge of a meltdown, so I commend you for doing such a fine job on yours.  I could never use the kits decals.

Scott

  • Member since
    August 2016
Posted by Keyda81 on Thursday, January 3, 2019 8:22 AM

Thanks Mark!  Change is never easy, lol.  Looks great from here!  I agree about the smaller builds, the landing gear and other little parts are a complete nightmare.  I will get your pic added to the completed builds section, feel free to grab a GB badge!

keavdog, wouldn't surprise me!  Lol.  Now that I think about it Hubby has an inspection camera if I ever want to show people the interior!Smile

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Wednesday, January 2, 2019 10:40 PM

Looks good Mark.  Ya, tiny scale has pluses and minuses.   Shame about the decals.  Had a similar issue with a wildcat I just finished.

Those interiors look great, but then buttoning them up for eternity sure seems a shame.   Maybe minicams and display monitors will be a thing of the future.  

Thanks,

John

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • From: Denver, Colorado
Posted by MrStecks on Wednesday, January 2, 2019 10:29 PM

deattilio
Plane's looking great.  I love the interior work you've done.

Keyda
Nice pics of W7, including the in-flight one you posted earlier.  Love it.
Best wishes on dealing with the high blood pressure.  Making life changes are never easy, but it's better than having to take meds.

 

Final Update:
Well, I'm calling this bird done.  I can only upload this one picture, because from any other angle it's a disaster.  Well, maybe not a disaster but certainly not one of my best.

Turns out the kit decals were absolutely terrible.  The T2 and stars and bars on the left side of the fuselage ripped to shreds.
This one will go on "display" in the spare bedroom, where no one ever ventures.

I quite like the base though. Smile

My thoughts on the Roden 1/144 kit?  It's too small!  lol.
Actually, a lot of the build was okay.  But the really tiny parts, (especially the landing gear and landing light clear parts) were simply impossible to work with.  It was so frustrating right to the end.
But I learned some things, and that's always good.  And I always learn new things watching other people's builds, which is the great thing about these group builds.
Can't wait to see how the other builds come out.

Cheers,
Mark

 

 


On the bench:  Revel 1/48 B-25J Mitchell

In the queue: Tamiya 1/48 F4U-1A Corsair

  • Member since
    August 2016
Posted by Keyda81 on Wednesday, January 2, 2019 10:19 AM

GMorrison

That's a great picture. You really need to include the donations can. It's the "bomb".

 

I didn't even think of that!  I'm sure I have something in the spare parts pile that would work.  Thanks for mentioning that!  I would of never even thought of it, lol. 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, January 2, 2019 9:09 AM

That's a great picture. You really need to include the donations can. It's the "bomb".

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    August 2016
Posted by Keyda81 on Wednesday, January 2, 2019 8:59 AM

deattilio

Everything is put away for the week but, my "Gooney" is finally starting to take shape.  The wings are only in place for the pics and not actually glued yet.  Also relieved I can see some of those seatbelts through the open door.

 

Looks great!

I felt the same way after spending all that time building the seats from scratch, lol.  I intend to display it with the one door open, and I'm going to scratch build the wheel chocks and gust locks. 

Something like this, but with the door open the other way.

She was set up for dropping paratroopers at the Thunder of Niagara airshow in that pic.

Or, I was thinking I could also scratch build the stairs in this pic.

They have those stairs set up when she's on static display, or for boarding passengers for flights.  That's me dressed in white(it was a 90 degree scorcher that day)talking with a couple of the volunteers before my flight last summer. 

 

  • Member since
    October 2005
  • From: New Port Richey
Posted by deattilio on Tuesday, January 1, 2019 8:29 PM

Everything is put away for the week but, my "Gooney" is finally starting to take shape.  The wings are only in place for the pics and not actually glued yet.  Also relieved I can see some of those seatbelts through the open door.

 

WIP:
Trying to get my hobby stuff sorted - just moved and still unpacking.

 

"Gator, Green Catskill....Charlie On Time"
 

 

  • Member since
    August 2016
Posted by Keyda81 on Tuesday, January 1, 2019 11:11 AM

plasticjunkie

 

 
Keyda81

 

So turns out my "off balance" spells are not caused by my ears.  They are fine, hearing is good too, despite the contstant ringing in them.  Anyway, my blood pressure is the culprit in this case.  Time to make some life style changes I suppose.  I am going to try and avoid going on BP meds. 

 

 

 

 

 

 I’m pre hypertension and have been on one BP med for over 12 years. Sodium is one of the main culprits. Keep a close eye on the numbers. Prevention is easy and very important.

I started riding my bike 11 miles several times a week and have dropped 10 lbs and noticed my BP numbers are even better so a little activity will help out. 

All the  best for the coming New Year.

 

I am going to devote at least a half hour a day to some kind of exercise.  I'm going to cut a few things out of my diet as well.  

Looking good Deattilio!  PE stuff can be such a pain!  I still have a lot more of it to mess with myself.  Not looking forward to it either.

Not sure if I'm going to get any bench time today.  A couple of trees came down and knocked the power out last night.  I was awake most of the night listening to the chain saws.  Powers back on, but still don't have any phone internet or cable.  I'm using my phone right now, lol.

  • Member since
    October 2005
  • From: New Port Richey
Posted by deattilio on Monday, December 31, 2018 9:21 PM

Well, this took much longer than anticipated.  They came with the PE and were even pre-painted so figured I should go ahead and use them.

Seatbelts, they're just seat belts.  What could be so difficult about "throwing" these in?  Total parts count - just the seat belts - 90!!!  Plus another 6 for pilot and copilot.

Got seatbelts mounted and shot a clear coat.  Next will be to add a wash before buttoning up the fuselage halves.

 

WIP:
Trying to get my hobby stuff sorted - just moved and still unpacking.

 

"Gator, Green Catskill....Charlie On Time"
 

 

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Monday, December 31, 2018 4:05 PM

Keyda81

 

So turns out my "off balance" spells are not caused by my ears.  They are fine, hearing is good too, despite the contstant ringing in them.  Anyway, my blood pressure is the culprit in this case.  Time to make some life style changes I suppose.  I am going to try and avoid going on BP meds. 

 

 

 

 I’m pre hypertension and have been on one BP med for over 12 years. Sodium is one of the main culprits. Keep a close eye on the numbers. Prevention is easy and very important.

I started riding my bike 11 miles several times a week and have dropped 10 lbs and noticed my BP numbers are even better so a little activity will help out. 

All the  best for the coming New Year.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    August 2016
Posted by Keyda81 on Monday, December 31, 2018 12:50 PM

jeaton, Most kits I build are a bit of work, lol.  It will be quite some time before I get that anyway.

 

So turns out my "off balance" spells are not caused by my ears.  They are fine, hearing is good too, despite the contstant ringing in them.  Anyway, my blood pressure is the culprit in this case.  Time to make some life style changes I suppose.  I am going to try and avoid going on BP meds. 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, December 31, 2018 12:49 PM

Yes, although it's one of the better WB kits in terms of fit. Still get night sweats from the B-10.

I'll be a late starter. A few in line ahead of this including a very difficult motorcycle.

Everyones progress looks good. Fun to follow.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Monday, December 31, 2018 12:11 PM

Keyda, the Williams Bros. kit can be a bit of work, I was 5 years on that one, start to finish.  A lot of the reason for that was getting up to speed on the aluminum finish, and just generally using it to improve a bunch of modelling skills.  Here's the link to my build log:

http://www.yolo.net/%7Ejeaton/mymodels/c46/1c46/1c46.html

John

To see build logs for my models:  http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.html

 

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Monday, December 31, 2018 10:18 AM

Since we are talking about the C-46, accorning to my local CBI pilots, they preferred it over the C-47 because it had better performance at high altitude, something I guess you would want when flying over the highest mountains in the world.

Mr Streaks, it is the Revell 1/96 Constitution.  Its about done and I am now starting on my Gooney.

Scott

  • Member since
    August 2016
Posted by Keyda81 on Monday, December 31, 2018 7:55 AM

jeaton01, Nice builds!  Looks like that C-46 kit builds up nicely.  It's going to be a long while before I get to that one though.

deattilio, Looks good!  It is a shame once it's closed up you won't see any of it.  At least there is photo evidence!

plasticjunkie, Lol, I bought mine in March. 

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Sunday, December 30, 2018 10:50 PM

[quote user="Keyda81"]

Plasticjunkie, how long ago was that?  I bought my kit from eBay, lol.

 

Was a couple of years back. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    October 2005
  • From: New Port Richey
Posted by deattilio on Sunday, December 30, 2018 9:01 PM

Needed to show some of the detail before its lost once the halves are closed up.  Got most of the interior complete, little more to do tomorrow.  Since she's a Rhodesian bird I figured a bit of dust on the deck was appropriate.  Also, the paint affect for stringers/ribs did not come out exactly as planned but I'm just gonna live with it.

 

WIP:
Trying to get my hobby stuff sorted - just moved and still unpacking.

 

"Gator, Green Catskill....Charlie On Time"
 

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Sunday, December 30, 2018 8:32 PM

I wish I had time to join this GB, but I'm over my head already in GB's.  But here is a me too on the size of the C-46.

 

John

To see build logs for my models:  http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.html

 

  • Member since
    August 2016
Posted by Keyda81 on Sunday, December 30, 2018 7:28 PM

Plasticjunkie, how long ago was that?  I bought my kit from eBay, lol.  Big Smile

MrStrecks, Thanks! It is rather large, lol.  I bump it all the time cause it's taking up the whole bench.  Thank you, I'm feeling a bit better, but still going to see the Dr. Tomorrow.  I know what you mean about being lazy, I've been lounging around most of the weekend!  

GMorrison, Nice!  

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, December 30, 2018 6:44 PM

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

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