C-47 Skytrain/Dakota/DC-3 GB

Good start MrStrecks!  You'll have a whole plane in no time.  I'm no where near painting yet, lol. 

GAF, Looks like a nice kit.  Certainly looking forward to seeing the interesting paint scheme you are doing.

I've been a bit distracted from modeling for the past few weeks because of health and a death in the family, but I'm now recovered enough to try to get some bench time.  I have some other projects ongoing, so I won't be able to start on this one for a while, but thought I would go ahead and post some preliminary shots of the model and the intended scheme.

The model is a Wm. K. Walthers, Inc. "Cornerstone Series" C-47 #933-1150 in HO scale (about 1/87th).  It has recessed panel lines, which are finely inscribed and are quite nice.  The details on the model are good, though there is no cockpit or interior details.  The model comes with three fuselage halves:  one for a C-47 with cargo doors, and one for a DC-3 model with passenger door.  It also has two sets of clear plastic windows (one for each version).  The decals represent three C-47s, two of the European theater and one for the CBI.  I will not be using any of these except for the national markings.

The aircraft I will be modeling is a member of the 1st Air Commando Group, based out of India in 1944.  A special operations group designed to supply and support units operating close to the front or behind enemy lines.  Its "?" insignia was a nod to it's secretive functions.  A brief history of the group may be found here:

http://www.historyofwar.org/air/units/USAAF/1st_Air_Commando_Group.html

Some images of the aircraft:

Thanks for looking!

Gary

Okay, I'm underway on my Roden C-47.

Never before have I been able to lay out all the parts of a kit, in one corner of my workbench.

Since this kit doesn't have ANY interior details, and I don't feel like scratch building anything at this scale, I decided to paint the whole interior black so that nothing will be visable inside through the windows.

Wings glued up, just need to clean the seams.  They fit together well.

I was debating how to easily and quickly mask the windows.  I decided to lay some tape across the whole window section and burnish it down, then carefully cut away the excess.

That worked pretty well, so I glued them into the fuselage sides.

I hope to get the rest of the major construction done this evening, and start painting tomorrow.

Cheers,
Mark

keavdog

I got the landing gear on and a really nice fitting windscreen considering the scale.  I put a first coat of paint on the control surfaces which lifted the Alclad so hoping the second coat goes on nicer.  I have to say I was enamored with this scale (1:200) in assembly until I had to put the gear together - wow talk about fiddley bits!  Anyhow, more work fixing this and that but here's where I am.  One note - not sure how to touch up the finish where I bled over detail painting. A few more tiny parts to put on and then decals!  Toothpick added for scale reference :)

Holy cow that's tiny!  I thought my 1/144 plane was small, but now I feel like I've got it easy.  Your build is looking awesome. 

Cheers,
Mark

keavdog, I hate landing gear in any scale, lol.  I can not imagine stuff that small.  I get nervous and start sweating just thinking about cutting it from the sprue!  Looking really good!  That is the major draw back of "metal" paints.  I have yet to complete something that actually looks like metal.  I have a couple in the stash that I intend to NMF, it will probably be either Alcalad, or foil.

GAF

 EBergerud

 Anyway, look at this pic: judging from the insignia and apparant lack of astrdome and the Aussie soldier, I'd guess early war - maybe Kokoda-Buna. The windows look almost tranlucescent. Also seem to lack gunports. (Maybe one of the few C-53s?) Also a good reminder that it's hard to over weather WWII radial engined planes - they did kick out oil.

Eric

Judging by the insignia, the windows, no cargo door and the smaller air intakes for the engine, I would guess this was a civilian DC-3 drafted into wartime service.  Definite C-53 candidate.

Gary

 

MrStecks

Wow keavdog, that Alclad looks awesome.

Well, I'm ready to get started on this impossibly tiny Roden kit.  I've never built anything this small.  I am a very patient man, but this tiny thing strains that patience just looking at it!  hahahaha....

I'm just going to go with an out-of-the-box build here, since this scale will challenge me enough.  we'll see how it goes.
I'm enjoying the discussion about the windows.  I don't think it will impact me though, since these tiny windows are impossible to see!  hahaha....

Cheers,
Mark

 

 

 

Don't feel bad, I'm not good with things that small either!  I've done a handful of 1/144 stuff, but depending on the plane, some aren't all that small.  Like my C-5, C-17, or B-52.  The smallest one to date is a 1/200 AC-130.  I wasn't a fan, lol. 

Wow keavdog, that Alclad looks awesome.

Well, I'm ready to get started on this impossibly tiny Roden kit.  I've never built anything this small.  I am a very patient man, but this tiny thing strains that patience just looking at it!  hahahaha....

I'm just going to go with an out-of-the-box build here, since this scale will challenge me enough.  we'll see how it goes.
I'm enjoying the discussion about the windows.  I don't think it will impact me though, since these tiny windows are impossible to see!  hahaha....

Cheers,
Mark

plasticjunkie

I don't trust white glue on side windows like on the DC3, very easy to push in during masking. Aleene's or Testors Clear Parts Cement will provide a stronger bond. I have used in the past that Formula 560 on my RC plane canopies, very good sutff. 

 

That is exactly what I was afraid of, so I just opted to be on the safe side, and use the kit windows.  Not entirely accurate to W7, but I'm sure it won't be noticed much anyway. 

I don't trust white glue on side windows like on the DC3, very easy to push in during masking. Aleene's or Testors Clear Parts Cement will provide a stronger bond. I have used in the past that Formula 560 on my RC plane canopies, very good sutff. 

EBergerud

Keyda: dare I ask why you wouldn't put on white glue windows after painting? I did an Italeri Sunderland a few months back (huge model even at 1/72) and it had maybe 20 windows. Four or five fell inside, so I used glue to replace them and it worked fine. (I did use Formula 560 Canopy Glue - well worth the $4 for a lifetime supply. It's stronger than regular white glue and good for PE.)

The windows being installed and masked will keep paint from getting inside when I spray the exterior.  I have replaced a few small windows with white glue when they've fallen inside.  One of my Hercs did that after I painted it, I some how knocked a window lose.

Keyda: dare I ask why you wouldn't put on white glue windows after painting? I did an Italeri Sunderland a few months back (huge model even at 1/72) and it had maybe 20 windows. Four or five fell inside, so I used glue to replace them and it worked fine. (I did use Formula 560 Canopy Glue - well worth the $4 for a lifetime supply. It's stronger than regular white glue and good for PE.)

Last C47 window factoid: a pretty good photo build of the new Airfix C47 claims the cockpit side windows are not very well molded and recommends putting them on before gluing the the fuselage together as there'd be a danger of it falling inside. Wouldn't want to use Formula 560 on a windshield. (Did say the side windows fit in nicely.)

On the C47 pic - when I saved it off Google it said "Papua 44" which is clearly not right. (May be a slight possibility that the bird is one of two or three "DC-2 and a halfs" - DC3s that were kepy flying by attaching DC2 wings. In 1942 absolutely no aircraft went to waste.) The armed Papuan probably belonged to one of the small prewar Aussie police units or a small militia unit that included indigenous peoples. In general the Aussies did not want the population to get firearms. The prewar Papua interior (actually an area just a few miles either side of the Kokoda track or the coast - the real interior was utterly unknown to anyone except those who lived there) was controlled by a handful of ANGAU officers who were tasked to prevent blood feuds between tribes and set up labor contracts with chiefs for the coconut plantations on the coast. The Aussies were not happy with the American policy post-1942 of employing indigenous workers for all kinds of jobs and paying them with cash. They were right to worry. The US presence in the entire area (including the Solomons, New Caledonia, Bismarcks etc) brought the modern world to peoples with one foot in a Paleolithic world and almost certainly accelerated calls for independence after 1945. And the C-47 played a role. In Papua and especially the big island of Bougainville, WWII revived a badly understood cultural practice anthropoligists call the "Cargo Cult" - an effort to bring back cargo carrying aircraft via magic and ceremony. Making symbolic airfields was a major part - bring back the C47s.

Eric 

GMorrison

The windows look flat, which if so Christine if you are listening; would be easy to replace on W7. BTW if you do so, measure all of the holes. I've mass produced too many parts, only to find that they all only fit in the one place where I made a pattern from.

 

I opted to use the kit windows because I figured they would hold up better against masking than ones made from clear parts glue, which is all I have to make clear stuff.  I've never seen clear styrene in any of the shops around here either, so I never even thought about going that route.  Oh well.  Not the end of the world. 

That exterior shot is worth study. The marking is pre-Midway, generally speaking.

The windows look flat, which if so Christine if you are listening; would be easy to replace on W7. BTW if you do so, measure all of the holes. I've mass produced too many parts, only to find that they all only fit in the one place where I made a pattern from.

There isn't a cargo door, at least on the port side.

The guy on th left with the rifle looks native.

The watermark on the image traces to a guy from New Zealand who has some pretty interesting logs online.

Thanks for sharing.

Glad to see you have gotten started deattilio!  The old Monogram kit I have does have some raised detail in side the fuselage, I'm pretty sure my boxing is from 1978.  It is rather difficult to see inside once it's closed up too.

keavdog, that is shiny!  I might have to give that stuff a try. 

Didn't make a whole lot of progress today.  It was more like get frustrated, then walk away for a few hours, come back and get frustrated again, lol. 

I filled in my huge wing root gaps.  I'm not sure if it was me or the kit, either way I can fix it.

Started putting together the PE flaps.  They don't exactly fit to well on the plane.  I might just scratch the inside pieces from sheet styrene like learmech did, and use the PE for the actual flaps.  The trouble is probably coming from the fact that they are for the Trumpeter kit.

She looks like a C-47, I just have to make her look like Whiskey 7!

EBergerud

 Anyway, look at this pic: judging from the insignia and apparant lack of astrdome and the Aussie soldier, I'd guess early war - maybe Kokoda-Buna. The windows look almost tranlucescent. Also seem to lack gunports. (Maybe one of the few C-53s?) Also a good reminder that it's hard to over weather WWII radial engined planes - they did kick out oil.

Eric

Judging by the insignia, the windows, no cargo door and the smaller air intakes for the engine, I would guess this was a civilian DC-3 drafted into wartime service.  Definite C-53 candidate.

Gary

You're right about the plexiglass windows being clear. Gurus with DC3 experience confirmed on both AeroScale and Flory. There's a short YouTube Clip "Air airstrip being constructed and a C-47 lands in New Guinea...HD Stock Footage" that clearly shows the light coming through as the angle changes. And yea, the holes are gunports - legend has it someone in NG shot down a Zero through one. (I do not believe it, although C47s were often harassed and a couple downed by Zeros near Buna in late 42.) No transport plane would have been anything like a deathstar as the crews were usually as small as three. (Fewer guys, more cargo.) However, I suppose it's possible that something like this might have showed up:

windows3 by Eric Bergerud, on Flickr

But how to model those windows. I've been thinking about starting a thread about clear parts. (Everyone wants a perfect canopy, but did WWII service aircraft have shinny-clear canopies? That's a question for my next fighter - will marshall pics then.) I do wonder if the windows on transport in New Guinea would not have been assaulted by the brutal conditions there - especially the mud-dust that afflicted people. (It was so hot and rained so often that you could have mud that turned to dust within an hour.) Barring theaters with extreme cold, NG was arguably the worst place to serve in WWII, especially if you didn't like malaria, jugnle rot etc. Anyway, look at this pic: judging from the insignia and apparant lack of astrdome and the Aussie soldier, I'd guess early war - maybe Kokoda-Buna. The windows look almost tranlucescent. Also seem to lack gunports. (Maybe one of the few C-53s?) Also a good reminder that it's hard to over weather WWII radial engined planes - they did kick out oil.

NG44 by Eric Bergerud, on Flickr

Eric

Those are gun ports.

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/wwii-47-window-gun-port-mint-conditon-406144278

keavdog

I've been a big fan of Alclad for a while - this is my first time using ALC119 - airframe aluminum and it is pretty impressive!

Zounds! Impressive is hardly the word. It looks more like shiny chrome.

Well done!

I really like the convenience of the alclad gloss black base.  Airbrush ready

=

I've been a big fan of Alclad for a while - this is my first time using ALC119 - airframe aluminum and it is pretty impressive!

There is some impressive work and nice builds coming along in the group.
I know I’m behind but I made a little progress.  Got some pieces washed and primed however, my hobby desk is not yet fully set up or fully functional.  I don’t have my airbrush set-up yet which is really slowing me down.  All my paints are still in Ziploc bags.  I’ll get there, just may be a little behind everyone else in the group for a while.
Bit disappointed in the kit as it does not have any of the internal stringers/ribs molded.  Not surprising given age of the kit but, I plan on having one of the doors open.  I’m too lazy to create all that detail for this kit and hope to create the illusion of the detail with some paint work.  The interior might be dark enough to make the effect look right.

keavdog

A bit of a setback.  I didn't like my alclad finish so dropped the little DC3 in to Testors ELO (which I have had success with before).  I suppose the super thin plastic at this scale maybe had something to do with it, but when I pulled it out and went to hit it with a tooth brush is broke apart like a Hershey bar.  Thinking shelf of doom crash scene for this one...

If ever an inanimate object looked 'forlorn'...that one does! Very glad you had a backup to hand!

Great and very inspiring work, one and all! Also some lovely schemes in the works, including the Aer Lingus one, which I had not seen before: really eye-catching.

I'm leaning heavily toward doing my own in 'workaday' RCAF colors, after having seen this photo from the collection of former techie Bill Ewing (posted on the http://www.douglasdc3.com site)

Hope to begin work some time this week.

EBergerud

Yikes: a really good looking GB here.

OK, just cracked the box of the Airfix C47 and I already have a question. (Bet this has already come up, but I was working on the Commonwealth GB and haven't been paying attention.) Shame on me, but I had forgotten that C47 transports had windows. But they do. But what kind? I'm not sure whether the windows were simply painted over and the little circle shows up like a raised panel line, or whether there was a kind of shade attached? They don't appear to be clear.  Here's a good pic:

We're going to send this bird to New Guinea so it can supply allied ground troops. (I did some writing on the subject a few years back and was lucky enough to have long "face to face" to two of the C-47 pilots that flew there. Very smart guys and both stayed in aviation. In terms of hours flown, few if any pilots would have matched aircrew doing that type of duty. They didn't list missions, but "hundreds of hours" flown. A lot of the men who later got commercial aviation off the ground had experience with Gooneys. Anyway, it's a soft spot for yours truly, and a good excuse for some heavy weather.) I can see there will be fun and games figuring camo schemes and things like interior colors. That's part of the hobby I like.

Eric

The windows were clear, and didn't have shades.  Painted over?  Not to my knowledge.  The circles in the windows were supposedly for troops or crew to shoot out of (if I recall correctly).  Can't remember where I read that, but I'll check around to confirm.

Oh, and the only DC-3s that had curtains were for civilian or VIP use.

And I think this is where I read about the window plugs.

https://forum.keypublishing.com/forum/historic-aviation/82337-c-47-dc-3-question?80371-C-47-DC-3-question=&s=2c3acfe5752473bf2227bb1743c99173

Gary

MrStrecks, Not being able to log on drove me nuts!  I get on every morning usually when I'm drinking my coffee, lol.

learmech, I'm doing the same kit.  I too have struggled with posting images in the past.  It takes some getting used to.  Then go figure when you get used to a site, something else happens then you have to find a new site, lol.  The flaps look great!  I have the PE ones.  They are for the Trumpeter kit, but I shoud be able to make them work.  I didn't trust myself enough to scratch build them. 

EBergerud, I'm not entirely sure about the windows.  The ones in my kit have those small circles molded right into the clear plastic.  It's not accurate to Whiskey 7, her windows must of been replaced at some point, but I'm not going to try and buff all those out.  I would more than likely ruin the plastic.  Hopefully someone else can answer your question.  The log on troubles drove me nuts.  I tried everything, and nothing worked.

No progress from me yet.  Hopefully I'll get to the bench tomorrow.  I decided that today was a relax day, and took myself and the kiddo for haircuts.  Next week is going to be super busy for me with cleaning, shopping, and making Christmas cookies!

Yikes: a really good looking GB here.

OK, just cracked the box of the Airfix C47 and I already have a question. (Bet this has already come up, but I was working on the Commonwealth GB and haven't been paying attention.) Shame on me, but I had forgotten that C47 transports had windows. But they do. But what kind? I'm not sure whether the windows were simply painted over and the little circle shows up like a raised panel line, or whether there was a kind of shade attached? They don't appear to be clear.  Here's a good pic:

Post-War by Eric Bergerud, on Flickr

We're going to send this bird to New Guinea so it can supply allied ground troops. (I did some writing on the subject a few years back and was lucky enough to have long "face to face" to two of the C-47 pilots that flew there. Very smart guys and both stayed in aviation. In terms of hours flown, few if any pilots would have matched aircrew doing that type of duty. They didn't list missions, but "hundreds of hours" flown. A lot of the men who later got commercial aviation off the ground had experience with Gooneys. Anyway, it's a soft spot for yours truly, and a good excuse for some heavy weather.) I can see there will be fun and games figuring camo schemes and things like interior colors. That's part of the hobby I like.

Eric

Happy to help. If you ever fly in to MRY let me know.

Bill

Wow, those look really great