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British Army Group Build 2020

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  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Wednesday, November 4, 2020 10:17 AM

That's interesting, I think I used XF-57 Buff to lighten the colour for the upper surfaces on my Comet. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Wednesday, November 4, 2020 9:07 AM

The online colour blender tool is handy, but is really meant for digital colours.  Viewing online and real paint is not the same since the screen is backlit, resulting in a bit brighter colours.  It still is handy to give an idea of colour mixes, but one should still rely on hand mixing paints to make final decisions.

Anyhow, this is what I meant about using grey to lighten the SCC.15 mix.  It does get lighter, but the colour becomes overpowered once past the 10% point.

THe RGB values for Tamiya were obtained from this site by just typing in the paint number xf53 for their Neutral Grey:

https://encycolorpedia.com/search?q=xf53

regards,

Jack

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Wednesday, November 4, 2020 12:44 AM

Wow Jack that is some great tool you have for mixing paint. As it turns out I didn't have any of these Tamiya colors, so I ordered XF-71, XF-21 and XF-53 tonight and they should arrive by Friday.

Thank you for all your help.

Harold

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Tuesday, November 3, 2020 11:53 PM

To lighten the colour, I'd not go with grey as it's fairly dull mix already.   I would actually try either XF-71, which was from the original formula, or maybe XF-21 Sky.

I did a quick digital study with XF-21, and would aim between 10 to 20% added to your mix.  Go less if plans are to follow up with weathering.

I used this online blender tool:

https://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/color-blend/#:::rgbd

 

The resulting blends are 100% pure colour at the top and bottom, while the sample increments are at 10%

If you use XF-71, it will take it closer to the original mix.  The results progress to a more visible green, which is how SCC.15 was described the more it aged.

 

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Tuesday, November 3, 2020 6:56 PM

jgeratic

Hello Harold, the new mix looks good, it certainly appears to be from the same 'family' of SCC.15.   It is a bit darker, but Mike did mention this.

Also, good job on the windshield.

 

regards,

Jack

 

Thank you. I have been looking for your input Jack and that is good news because I totally agree with you on the color. Now my friend how do I lighten the mix? In other words what color would take a touch of darkness out of the mix?

Harold

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Tuesday, November 3, 2020 6:50 PM

Hello Harold, the new mix looks good, it certainly appears to be from the same 'family' of SCC.15.   It is a bit darker, but Mike did mention this.

Also, good job on the windshield.

 

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Tuesday, November 3, 2020 1:55 PM

Gamera

Whoops, my mistake. I didn't enlarge the photos- now I can see where the paint came off... 

 

Cliff below are pictures of the masking and painting rework I did yesterday. Gino said he leaves the masking tape on through the entire painting process. I have had bad experience where the paint peeled off places, I did not want it too because I left the tape on too long. However, I am using Tamiya masking tape and it might make a difference, plus I plan to use a sharp blade and score the paint around the windows to prevent the paint from peeling when I remove the tape.

Harold

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Tuesday, November 3, 2020 1:28 PM

[quote user="Sergeant"]

jgeratic

Don't know if this really helps, just noticed that the Vallejo I have is the correct number 71.016, but is labelled as US Dark Green.  I bought it back in 2013 when it was part of their RAF/FAA set (16 bottles), and it was instructed to be used for RAF day fighter scheme. 

No idea if they changed the formula when relabelled as USAF Olive Drab, but comparing to the digital chip it looks very similar.

 

regards,

Jack

 

 

Well Jack it is raining today, so I tried a different method of photography (on-camera, non-directional lighting). Considering all the variables of lighting, computer screens and paint types I will let you judge for yourself.

Harold

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Tuesday, November 3, 2020 7:36 AM

Whoops, my mistake. I didn't enlarge the photos- now I can see where the paint came off... 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Monday, November 2, 2020 11:52 PM

"adjust with medium grey for scale"

Scaling colour can be a contentious issue.  Basically since the model subject is small, it reflects less light to the viewer's eye, and the preception of colour results in a more darker shade.  To compensate for this, some suggest lightening the colour slightly. 

 

regards,

Jack

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Monday, November 2, 2020 10:43 PM

jgeratic

Harold, I'm curious too about this new SCC.15 mix, where did you find it?  A pure yellow additive gives me an impression it will be quite different, but still be an olive colour of sorts.

regards,

Jack

 

Hello Jack, below is the email Mike sent me with instructions on mixing Tamiya paint to match S.C.C. 15. 

Hello Jim [Harold]

Thank you for your order and payment, confirmed this morning.  Here are the Tamiya mixes you asked for, don't want to stop getting on.
SCC.15 Olive Drab  5 x XF61 + 2 x XF62 + 2 x XF3.  This is slightly darker than the standard so adjust with medium grey for scale.
SCC.14 (black)  XF69 Nato Black is spot on.
I will make up your order today, and advise when posted.
Regards
Mike
 
Jack, I am not sure I know what "adjust with medium grey for scale" means. I decided to just try the mix on a couple of spoons and see how it compares to your sample made from Mike's previous instructions. I will post a picture taken in daylight tomorrow for you to see how it looks.
 
Harold

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Monday, November 2, 2020 6:55 PM

Harold, I'm curious too about this new SCC.15 mix, where did you find it?  A pure yellow additive gives me an impression it will be quite different, but still be an olive colour of sorts.

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Monday, November 2, 2020 5:46 PM

Gamera

Looks good to me. You did an excellent job masking off the windows. 

 

I wish that were true my friend. I used liquid masking and it was not applied heavy enough, so in some places I had to remove paint. I talked with Gino about keeping the windows clean while painting and he suggested masking tape instead of liquid masking. So I cleaned the windows as good as I could and taped both sides of all the windows. Then I repainted the cab with a good coat of Vallejo olive drab primer and it looks better than it did, but the proof will be when I remove the tape.

I also received finish paint from my supplier today. I am using a Mike Starmer mix of 5 parts Tamiya XF-61, 2 parts XF-62 and 2 parts XF-3 to get a colour match with British S.C.C. 15 Olive Drab. I painted six clear plastic spoons with Vallejo Olive Drab Surface Primer today and later tonight or tomorrow morning I will paint a couple of spoons with the mixed color. I do not have the color chip Mike is sending me yet, but I am curious to see what it looks like. This is a different mix than the one Mike published in his white paper that Jack and I have been using.

Harold

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Monday, November 2, 2020 11:21 AM

Looks good to me. You did an excellent job masking off the windows. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Saturday, October 31, 2020 8:37 AM

I am really likeing that Harold, the PE is nicely done and looks great with some paint on. Nice touch haveing the front window open.

Love the sig pic.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Saturday, October 31, 2020 6:40 AM

Gamera

Harold: Looks good! I really like that PE grille. 

 

Thank you, Cliff. I have the primer on and need to give it 24 hours to dry thoroughly before I do any touch up around the windows.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Friday, October 30, 2020 9:02 AM

Harold: Looks good! I really like that PE grille. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Wednesday, October 28, 2020 11:38 PM

Thanks, Bish, Cliff and our Mate from down under, in the beautiful land of Australia. I have been reading about Australia and found out it has more dangerous animals in the outback than the jungles of South America or Africa.

Today my progress was limited by other activities, but I did manage to get the windows and mirrors on the cab. The next step is to mask the windows and give the cab a couple of coats of primer. I will use a new liquid mask made by Hobby Pro manufacture of VMS products in Poland. https://www.vms-supplies.com/ 

The split windows on this Matador remind me of a 1932 Model A Ford my neighbor had when we were kids growing up in the country on a farm. That split window ventilation worked rather good on a nice day when it was not raining.

Harold

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Wednesday, October 28, 2020 3:52 PM

Thanks LA, need to get some more work done on that soon.

Nice progress there.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Wednesday, October 28, 2020 3:51 PM

lostagain

 

 
Bish

If the £ drops any more we will have to fly to Oz to find it.

 

 

Wondered what that 'splat' noise was...

 

lostagain

 

 
Bish

If the £ drops any more we will have to fly to Oz to find it.

 

 

Wondered what that 'splat' noise was...

 

Yep, that was our economy.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Wednesday, October 28, 2020 11:45 AM

Harold and Piers: Those look good guys!!!

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    April 2014
  • From: Australia
Posted by lostagain on Wednesday, October 28, 2020 6:30 AM

 

Bish – never tried a bust before – looking forward to seeing your techniques.

 

Harold, definitely worth coming down under for a look around. It’s a long flight to get here – so make it a long trip! The Matador is coming along really well, the paint is going down well now that you have sorted out the airbrush and compressor.

 

That has been a huge rabbit hole to go down with the British Army paint colours, makes my head hurt.

 

Svenne, another truck! Excellent! And at a bargain price! Off to a good start there!

 

GreySnake, the Sherman looks really good, an attractive scheme. Very nicely finished, good that you saw it all the way through.

 

Gamera, the Conqueror is looking huge.

 

The Achilles is coming together easily, the Tamiya 1/48 armour kits have been great every time.

 

  • Member since
    April 2014
  • From: Australia
Posted by lostagain on Wednesday, October 28, 2020 5:36 AM

Bish

If the £ drops any more we will have to fly to Oz to find it.

Wondered what that 'splat' noise was...

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Tuesday, October 27, 2020 3:17 PM

Good to hear your sorted on the markings and scheme Harold.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Tuesday, October 27, 2020 3:15 PM

Jack, yes indeed, i do mean the land down under.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Tuesday, October 27, 2020 2:01 PM

I received the new air compressor I ordered. At first, I was disappointed because the Iwata miniature spray gun I have is too big for the air compressor. The spray gun has a 1.0mm needle and nozzle set. Then I tried the new air compressor with my Iwata airbrush that has a 0.35mm needle and nozzle, it works perfectly. In fact, it works so good at 17 PSI I was able to paint the Matador truck bed, cab interior, canopy and undercarriage with no runs and no over-spray using Vallejo surface primer. The finish is smooth, and I did not use any thinner or flow improver.

In the past my big industrial air compressor made it hard to regulate the air pressure in the 15 to 20 PSI range because it was designed to operate at 100 to 125 PSI. Even after I added a second regulator and moisture filter it would deliver to much air or not enough and the compressor was very laud. The result was either occasional runs in the paint, excessive paint buildup around tight places, or rough finish from dry paint (over-spray) when I use my airbrush. The miniature spray gun has its place with large aircraft wings and ship hulls, but I seem to do fine on 1/35 scale AFV bodies with a 0.35mm airbrush at 17 PSI.

Below is the work I did yesterday and today with the first coat of USA Olive Drab Vallejo Surface Primer #74.608. The finish coat will be British S.C.C. 15 Olive Drab (which is not US Olive Drab). It will be a Tamiya mix of XF-81, XF-58, and XF-71 that Mike Starmer researched. The camouflage paint will be S.C.C. 14 Blue Black, Tamiya XF-69. Originally, I had planned to use Vallejo paint, but after other considerations have decided to go with a proven Tamiya mixture. The camouflage pattern will be like figure 7 from the British Military Training Pamphlet #46, shown below.

I feel the need to explain that colours mentioned in M.T.P. #46 were superseded by S.C.C. 15 Olive Drab and S.C.C. 14 Blue Black in 1943, but the camouflage pattern illustrated in M.T.P. #46 remained the same. These were colours used in N.W. Europe during the Second Wold War. Originally I had planned to model the Matador after British Army units located in the Orkney Islands, but identifying specific units became very difficult and as it turned out I already had decals for the British 2nd Army.

Harold

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Sunday, October 25, 2020 12:55 PM

Harold, no problem about the helping out - it benefits me too, as now I at least have a possible use for that particular Vallejo paint.  My jar of Tamiya mix SCC 15 is seven years old, so good to know it is still useable, and I will need it for My Humber Scout once I get back to it.

Bish, I take it by OZ you mean Australia and not that place with the yellow brick road.  Hopefully things work out for our friends across the pond.

 

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Sunday, October 25, 2020 12:17 PM

Jack I now know that I have 47 bottles of Tamiya acrylic paint and 88 bottles of Vallejo. Would you believe none of the colors I need for S.C.C. 14 and 15 were among them. I am not a very attentive store keeper, so I had no idea how many or what colour paint I had on hand.

Harold

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Sunday, October 25, 2020 11:58 AM

[quote user="jgeratic"]

Don't know if this really helps, just noticed that the Vallejo I have is the correct number 71.016, but is labelled as US Dark Green.  I bought it back in 2013 when it was part of their RAF/FAA set (16 bottles), and it was instructed to be used for RAF day fighter scheme. 

No idea if they changed the formula when relabelled as USAF Olive Drab, but comparing to the digital chip it looks very similar.

 

regards,

Jack

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Sunday, October 25, 2020 11:10 AM

If the £ drops any more we will have to fly to Oz to find it.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

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