AIRCRAFT, ARMOR, FIGURES, SHIPS - D-Day Group Build, 5-8 June 1944

I'll be visiting a good hobby shop soon, just to see what they have, so maybe the tamiya marder might not b a bad idea.
Once again though, were any russian vehicles involved, by some odd chance?

Hey M1 and rebel, when are we all going to get issued the GB patch? Thanks

QUOTE: Originally posted by zokissima I'm just curous, were any Russian vehicles involved in this?

One site I found lists the 'Das Reich' division as having a unit of T-34/76c tanks on it's order of battle in Normandy. Where or when they might have seen action I don't know.

I'm in for a Marder III build!

Thundergod,

I think you will find that jagdpanthers did not enter combat until quite late in Normandy. I read it somewhere on the net, but for the life of me can’t remember which site. In any case, something was mentioned about the ones that did see combat were not involved during the initial first few weeks of combat.

All,

As far as the units and vehicles that we are modeling, are we going to say any vehicle that was in France during those first few days of combat? Or are we restricting it to units that actually saw combat? I think you could find quite a lot of vehicles that never fired a shot, but experienced allied bombings. Will these vehicles be included? I feel that anyone should be able to build anything that they want, but like Richard said, if we are not careful we will end up with a “build whatever you want group build”. Then we would end up with, well… and armor forum!

Since I am a German armor fan and you guys have really gotten me excited about a D-Day build, would anyone like to do a really specific group build with me? I was thinking a Tamiya Pz IV D-Day build. Or how about a Tamiya Marder III D-Day build? If some of you want to do this (3 or more) I could even see if I could make a forum on my site for the build. That way we would not take up space on the armor forum, and we wont have to weed through tons of posts on the D-Day thread. Well, it was just a thought…

Let me know what you guys think.

Near as I can tell from my Osprey book on Normandy, the following German armored divisions were there on or near D-Day: 21 pz div, 9 pz div, 2 pz div, 116 pz div, Panzer Lehr div, 1 SS LAH, 2 SS Das Reich, 9 SS Hohenstauffen, 10 SS Frundsberg, 12 SS Hitler Jugend, 17 SS Goetz von Berllichingen.

I can't find any info on the tanks available, but I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the crazy French converted Lorraine Schleppers. Of course none are readily available.

QUOTE: shoot which tiger would of been there?early, mid late ,late?

There were 3 late production tigers on the 13 June at villers-bocage. Whittman's 205 and two other tigers under his command-still trying to get the numbers of the two...

shoot which tiger would of been there? early, mid late ,late? stug, tiger, jagdpanther cant choose its a hard one.

I am in

I am still researching what I will do. Either a Marder III, TIger I, or possibly a StuG.

Well I found this site about the the Germans were doing in june http://www.feldgrau.com/june.html

as for the june 13th thing, if you guys want to extend the time period thats fine. I'll make it June 5-13 1944. Anything used by Axis Or Allies. THat way Some(like me) can build C-47's and Airborn troops. I'll update the lists.

QUOTE: Originally posted by ddayomaha Question: M26's and M18's were not used on dday right?

That's correct ..... and for anyone thinking Sherman ... no M4A3's or 76mm versions were available on D-Day

QUOTE: If we could set a time period (6 Jun - 13 Jun???)

That would be a good idea to make it june 6 through the 13. I'm going to have to quit the GB if I can't do a tiger, or I'll have to scramble and save up for a kit. Just a thought...

QUOTE: This first confirmed use of the Tiger at Normandy was with Wittman and 3 others against Canadian and Britsh forces on 13 June.

Yes, I did some extensive research on that and it appears that Whittman's tiger 1 was a late production tiger 1and his tiger was tank 205. The 205 is in red and white and it has zimmerit on it too. The canadians and brits fought whittman's 3 tigers at villers-bocage on June 13, 1944. Whittman commanded 3 tigers from the 101st SS Heavy Panzer Battalion. The 101st SS HTB was commanded by Major Hein von Westernhagen. Just in case you wanted to know. I'm doing whittman's tiger 1 on that day if the d-day date is moved back to the 13th.

Can I make a suggestion?

Before we get too far we should set parameters, other wise we could build just about anyhting.

If we could set a time period (6 Jun - 13 Jun???) and limit what type equipment.

I see this getting out of hand like "Well Gen. Bradley was there, can I build a "Bradley IFV"

EDOG: I tried (in vain) to prove you wrong about the Tigers. The only thing I could find was one "privates" account that they encountered "Tiger 1s" before they reached Caen (8 Jun). Not to dicount this hero's account, but I can find nothing to confirm this. This first confirmed use of the Tiger at Normandy was with Wittman and 3 others against Canadian and Britsh forces on 13 June.

Question: M26's and M18's were not used on dday right? I'm almost positive but I dont want to buy any more kits until I finish the ones I have. Also were panther lates around?

I know i'll be doing the DUKW though!

QUOTE: your pic is of an eastern front IV, right? as that's t-34 extra track links i can see stuck all over it?

Yes it is. I just updated my profile and thought the pic looked cool. Hey, I didn't realize it had side skirts, just realized the t-34 treads. Looks like I'm in with a tiger 1.

I'm just curous, were any Russian vehicles involved in this?

QUOTE: Originally posted by ArmorMaster I know the PC game call of duty has Tiger 1's and pzrkmwgn 4's on d-day, but maybe that was an inaccuracy. Saving PVt. Ryan had tigers in it on normandy though, so I'll probably end up doing a tiger 1. Would anyone know if there are any aftermarket kits for pzkmpwgn 4 side and turret armor skurts? I'll look into it.

there's loads of aftermarket stuff for your panzer IV, although i only know UK outlets...if you get stuck i can let you know at least what i think is out there.
your pic is of an eastern front IV, right? as that's t-34 extra track links i can see stuck all over it?
regards,
nick

Great info Richard and Eric, thanks.

Hehehe, good, I was actually looking for a reason to build a panther, since mine's been sitting around for a while gathering dust. As far as this build goes, if I'm still in it come June, I'll probably end up doing a panther.

QUOTE: Originally posted by rebelreenactor Frosty, Does this mean u r in??

rebelreenactor:
that's affirmative, General ! i'm in...
now all i have 2 do is figure out what 2 build 4 this project !

frosty

Nice webpage, edog. Thanks for sharing!

I know the PC game call of duty has Tiger 1's and pzrkmwgn 4's on d-day, but maybe that was an inaccuracy. Saving PVt. Ryan had tigers in it on normandy though, so I'll probably end up doing a tiger 1. Would anyone know if there are any aftermarket kits for pzkmpwgn 4 side and turret armor skurts? I'll look into it.

Ok, so I did a little research…

Apparently, Tiger IIs didn’t arrive in Normandy until Mid July with the 503rd, so they are out. Everything I have read so far states that the first Tiger Is in combat in Normandy were with the 101SS on the 12th of June. I am not sure if the JagdPz IVs from Pz Lehr made it into combat before the 9th.

As far as tanks that were in Normandy before the 9th, there were Panthers, Pz IVs, and Pz IIIs. Now as far as SP guns, Hummels, Stug IIIs, and Wespes were there too. AND the 12th SS (HJ) had 12 Marders attached to a Battalion that participated in the fighting outside of Caen on the 8th. These were probably the 7.5 cm Marders.

This info is assuming that the only Panzer divisions to make it to the front before the 9th were the 12ss Pz, the 21st Pz, and the Pz Lehr. (I am pretty sure that this is the case)

If you guys want to learn more, start with this page, its SICK!!! and it matches pretty well with all the onther info I have seen.

http://w1.183.telia.com/~u18313395/normandy/index.html

Hope this helps

Not sure how accurate it is but I found this list on a website, although it does not list variants.

Allocation tables, men and equipment

PzKpfw IV
PzKpfw V PANTHER
PzKpfw VI TIGER AUSF E
PzKpfw VI TIGER AUSF B
STURMGESCHÜTZ
JAGDPANZER IV
JAGDPANTHER
MOBILE FLAK

Also found this website, again note sure how accurate it is:

http://w1.183.telia.com/~u18313395/normandy/articles/gerafvtemp.html

Count me in please, I will be doing Academy's Mid Pro TIger (Full Interior) I will either do one from the 12th SS Panzer or 21st Panzer. I am still in the research phase.

Huuuuummmmm may have to do a jagdpanther seems either way I go I will be buying a kit for this build.

Looks like I need a new model! Thanks wrbridge! Does anybody have any sites where I can find out what divisions were where at certain times? I'll keep looking...

QUOTE: Originally posted by ArmorMaster Hey wrbridge: Do you have a book of what vehicals were where on what dates? If so, would you be able to see if there was any tiger 2's in any panzer division around normandy during or close to D-day? That would help a lot. Thanks

No, I don't have a book that has that detailed information, wish I did though! The information on the Marder III I got from a website on the 'Das Reich' division. But from what I can find out from the books I do have it appears that the Tiger 2 was first deployed to the Eastern Front in May of 1944, and the Western Front in August 1944 (heavy tank battalion 501 I believe).

It's not much, but I hope it helps some.

QUOTE: Originally posted by tigerman Thank you Warren and you answered my next question about known units too.

No worries, glad to help.

Thank you Warren and you answered my next question about known units too.