Well Cliff and Jack I made some progress. I was able to lightly sand with 1,000 grit sandpaper along the dark green edges to feather them into the dark brown. It was a good thing I had only two lights coats of paint on the model.

Then I gave the entire model two light coats of grey surface primer, so I could see if the dark green lines were going to show. It needed a little more sanding and then I gave it three light coats of dark earth brown.

The camouflage preparation step is where I need a little help. I understand how the paper camouflage masks I downloaded are to be used, but I'm not clear on whether I place the masking putty along the edges of the paper masks and then add liquid masking on top of the paper masks or just use the paper masks without liquid masking to protect the dark brown?

I need to give the new brown paint job at least 24 hours before I start the camouflage work, so I will wait to hear from you guys before I start masking.

Harold

jgeratic

One of the members here has a web page where you can download spitfire masks:

http://www.yolo.net/~jeaton/mymodels/spitfire/templates/SpitTemp.html

 

Maybe print them out on paper, cut out the required shapes, and then apply the rolled putty masks along the edges?

 

regards,

Jack

 

 

Thank you for your encouragement.

Harold

One of the members here has a web page where you can download spitfire masks:

http://www.yolo.net/~jeaton/mymodels/spitfire/templates/SpitTemp.html

Maybe print them out on paper, cut out the required shapes, and then apply the rolled putty masks along the edges?

regards,

Jack

Harold: It shouldn't be too hard to remask and spray on some more dark green. If it'd went the other way and you'd gotten too much green it'd been harder to spray more brown on over the darker green. 

Not quite what I had expected... I wanted a 50% - 50% coverage of Dark Earth Brown and Dark Green, but it's more like 70%-30% because I miscalculated the thickness of the masking putty.

Before I do any more with this model I have decided to build the second spitfire that came in my kit. It will have the same camouflage paint colours but the exterior has a few different features, most noticeably the two cannons on the wing. This will give me a chance to adjust the camouflage pattern to approach 50% - 50% Dark Earth Brown and Dark Green.

The decals I plan to use are for a Mk. IIb, Serial No. P8385 flow by F/O Miroslaw Feric, No. 303 (Polish) Squadron, RAF Northolt, Great Britain, May - June 1941. The cockpit is already to go, so I can concentrate on the exterior assembly and painting.

Harold

Gamera

Looks great Harold! 

I'd only heard about the matts being used to mask off the camo with a hard edge. This is interesting, I don't know about the rest. 

 

I pushed the limits a bit to see what would happen. The liquid mask is supposed to have 30-minutes to cure, but I only gave it 15-minutes. I intentionally airbrushed a single heavy coat of paint to see if it created unsightly edges and it didn't, but I will use two light coats of Dark Green instead of one heavy coat. The Dark Green is a mix of 8-parts Vallejo #71.325 IJN Dk. Black Green, 1-part 71.324 BS Dark Green with 4-parts 71.323 BS Dark Earth.

Harold

Looks great Harold! 

I'd only heard about the matts being used to mask off the camo with a hard edge. This is interesting, I don't know about the rest. 

That is correct about the invasion stripes.  The Allies had pretty much air superiority from the start, so it was more important to reveal their identity quickly to avoid friendly fire.

As I understand it, maintenance units would have the spray guns, and they would be responsible for a number of squadrons in the area. 

At squadron level, they too would have paints, but am not sure if the erks were trained for spraying paint, just hand brush?  Paints here were likely  just for touch ups on minor repairs, as well as applying new codes on replacement aircraft, either direct from the factory or from a different squadron.

regards,

Jack

jgeratic

Photo no.4 depending on the date, may have had the b/w invasion stripes applied in the field by brush.  This was hastily applied the night before D-Day, but yes, operational use would further create the worn look.  Also, later on in the European campaign, the top portions of the stripes were removed by painting over them.

regards,

Jack

 

How were British airplanes repainted while in operational squadrons? Did the RAF have maintenance centers with paint spraying equipment, or was it all done in open fields by the squadron ground crew with paint brushes?

Harold

Photo no.4 depending on the date, may have had the b/w invasion stripes applied in the field by brush.  This was hastily applied the night before D-Day, but yes, operational use would further create the worn look.  Also, later on in the European campaign, the top portions of the stripes were removed by painting over them.

regards,

Jack

I agree with you Jack. I did not find any closeup original photographs of Squadron 131, 602, or 616; however, I did find clear evidence of both sharp demarcation lines, soft camouflage lines, minimal overspray and heavy operational paint wear. I think my choice will be to sharpen the demarcation lines a little on the wings and continue with softer camouflage lines between the Dark Earth Brown and Dark Green colours.

In photograph No. 1 of an early version Spitfire that was force down by the Germans it clearly shows hard (sharp) edges along demarcation lines on the wings and engine panel. In photograph No. 2 some lines are hard and others along the wings appear to be softer. In No. 3 there is a little overspray on the engine panel, and the wings appear to be soft edges. In No. 4 the paint is worn very badly an indication of many operational hours with little time for repainting.

Photo No. 1

Photo No. 2

Photo No. 3

Photo No. 4

Harold, nice spot on the shoulder patch to date the photo.  Thanks for the compliment, but am not that much of a detective, just that I have visited these 'rabbit holes' before and know/remember where to look. 

Here's a shot of a 616 Sqn mount during winter of 1941.  One thing seems to be is the forward fuselage where the engine is located tends to always have a hard edge, literally right along the panel line (mind you it could be field maintenance repaint):

As an aside, it's quite likely wing leading edges would receive touch ups to paint over chipping from the prop throwing up debris.

regards,

Jack

Jack, I can tell by the uniform of the American officer, on the right in your photograph it is 20 June 1941 or later. His shoulder patch (badge) is that of the newly formed US Army Air Force. Prior to June 1941 the US Army Air Corps (predecessor of USAAF) patch had a white star on a black field with a red circle in the middle of the star.

The aircraft I am modeling is serial number P7966 flown by Douglas Bader, Commanding Officer of the Tangmere Wing from 18 March 1941 until he crashed on 9 August 1941. There were three Squadron in the Tangmere Wing while Douglas Bader was in command. I think they were 131, 602 and 616 Squadrons.

https://www.tangmere-museum.org.uk/artefact-month/douglas-baders-fateful-day-9-august-1941

Jack, you have the mind of a detective. Thank you for solid historical investigation.

Harold

For the question on demarcation lines between colours (concerning Spitfires), will start with a quote from Edgar Brooks and his research:

Supermarine used "stencil mats" from 1937, right through the war, so hard-edged, but not every M.U., or C.R.O. company had them, so camo, from them, could have been soft-edged. Anecdotal evidence gives a maximum of .5"-1" permissible overspray on top colours, with a maximum of 2" between upper and lower.

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234940809-spitfire-camo-demarcation-question/page/2/

So generally at 1/48 scale,  2 inch overspray is 1mm and half that for top surfaces.  There could be variations due to some circumstances as mentioned, but note too that early war tend to be very hard edge.  I'd suggest looking at photos from the squadron being represented in (1941?) for more definite idea.

Not sure the year of this photo, but Harold, looks close to what you have done on the leading edge;

regards,

Jack

jeaton01

Seargeant, I usually paint the bottom of the airplane last, as it is is easier to have a loose mask at the edge when I paint the bottom so I get a soft demarcation between the colors.

 

I wanted to show some progress I made the last few days. I would like any feedback on the transition between the Dark Earth Brown and Sky colour at the wings edge. Please see closeup picture below.

In an earlier post John mentioned softening the demarcation (transition) between the dark top colours and Sky colour underneath the wings. I have never done this before, so I would like some feed back on how it looks compared to other modeler's painting?

The next major step on this project is camouflage paint with Dark Green. I have the colour tested and ready, but the camouflage design will be my real test. The few times I have tried to paint camouflage have not gone very well. This time I will use a combination of small masking putty strings about the diameter of a pencil and masking fluid to fill the Dark Earth Brown spaces. The masking putty creates a softer line between the two colors compared to masking tape and that is the look I am trying to achieve.

Harold

Given that everyone in my family was working on Thanksgiving, it gave me some uninterrupted model time.  

And it is currently setting up on the stand. 

Construction is mostly wrapped up now, just a couple small bits I was holding until it was on the stand.  The Harriers and choppers of course need to be added, as the last step.  Hoping to seal it tomorrow and start decaling on Sunday.

Nice progress there JB. I do like Eduard aircraft kits.

alot of impessive builds going on. I didn't realize that I haven't visited this GB in almost 2 months, I have got to do better about posting.

Anyway I was able to get started on my Mk IX.

The cockpit went together well but some of the PE is ridiculously small so I opted to skip alot of it.

Shot the primer this morning but don't have any pics for that yet.

Harold: That looks good! As the guys said, not sure I'd try to fiddle with that or not since it's not really visible.

Piers: Sure you don't need to invest in more clamps? All joking aside she's lookin' good. And probablyworking better than the jury-rigged stuff I've done with rubber bands, clothes pins, and tape.

Tony: You're making great progress, sure you'll have her done by the end of the year.

Got you added Tony.

Today's progress.

I have to get cracking as I would like to finish it by 31 December.

I have the intention of building a collection of RAF and RN types that were piloted by Australians. 

Cheers

Tony

Hi Bish,

I'd like to enter with an Airfix 1/72 Spitfire Mk 1a please.

Cheers

Tony

Harold, i know what you mean, sometimes its better just to leave as is. I know if that was me, i would leave that seam, especially given where it is. The colour looks reall nice.

GAF

Harold> Good idea about the putty.  I've used it to soften the demarcation line and it works.

As for me, I'm doing fine.  I'm taking 3 blood thinners so I have to watch an accidental cut.  It's amazing how much blood a small cut can leak out, which mean being careful about the x-acto!  Thanks for asking!

Gary

Cliff, I worked on the lower tail section, but depending on the lighting the seam still shows a little. I will let the paint dry overnight and decide in the morning if I want to keep working on the seam. Sometimes I can do more harm than good if I keep messing with a painted area.

Harold

Harold> Good idea about the putty.  I've used it to soften the demarcation line and it works.

As for me, I'm doing fine.  I'm taking 3 blood thinners so I have to watch an accidental cut.  It's amazing how much blood a small cut can leak out, which mean being careful about the x-acto!  Thanks for asking!

Gary

jeaton01

Seargeant, I usually paint the bottom of the airplane last, as it is is easier to have a loose mask at the edge when I paint the bottom so I get a soft demarcation between the colors.

 

John, I should have asked before going ahead with the Sky colour, but I remembered someone saying to paint the lightest colors first, so my lightest colour was Sky and then Dark Brown and Dark Green.

I do understand what you are saying about a soft demarcation between upper and lower surface colours, so at this point I will see what happens by simply masking the Sky colour when applying the Dark Brown and Dark Green. If necessary I can create a softer demarcation after the darker paint is on by very lightly sanding the demarcation with 1,000 grit sand paper and then apply an addition coat of Sky if necessary.

The satin varnish I apply to seal the paint and decals may also help to soften that transition. Another idea that was given to me is to apply a small line of masking putty to the edge of the Sky colour areas. The painted edge created by masking putty tends to be softer than masking tape.

Thanks for your suggestion John, as I mentioned before this is my first aircraft model in a very long time.

Harold

Seargeant, I usually paint the bottom of the airplane last, as it is is easier to have a loose mask at the edge when I paint the bottom so I get a soft demarcation between the colors.

Looks good Harold, at least the chipped area is somewhere it isn't terribly visible. 

Gamera

Harold: I don't see any seams on the nose just a small one on the lower tail. You're going better than I was. I had to putty and sand the krap outta my Hasegawa Spit. I think I assembled something the wrong way, I've built the kit before and didn't have the same problem.

Cliff You're right there is a small seam that needs attention on the lower side of the tail. I didn't think it would show, but it does.

I applied two coats of Vallejo #71.302 Sky Type S to the lower surface of wings and fuselage, and it came out ok, but in the process of removing the masking tape I peeled off a little surface primer that will need to be touch up.

I gave the Vallejo #73.601 Grey Surface Primer 12-hours to dry, and I cleaned the plastic with 70% Isopropyl Alcohol before primer, but I think the primer needed more time to harden. My studio seems very humid today and we had a lot of warm rain the past few days, so that might have affected the drying time.

One afterthought is maybe I should have painted the entire airplane with Sky colour, then earth brown rather than masking off sections, but I have been trying to keep the paint buildup to a minimum to preserve as much detail as possible.

Harold