ARMOR - Pz IV Group Build

Thanks Edog... I'm make an list of todo's... Hopefully I can get rollin on this this week sometime... I'm still miffed about BOTH gun parts being damaged.... BUUUUUUT anyway enough whimpering....

Edog,,, I live near Aberdeen and I know they have a Early IV there or they did and I can stop there on my way back from N.Y. this weekend and take a couple pics and post them. Hopefully they are the right ones. As far as sending me Dampers goes,, if you are going to make a boat load of them then sure but for experience purposes I kinda wanna make them myself.

My idea for trying to duplicate the rubber at the bottom of the damper was to get a hollow tube and slide a solid tube thru it. that would also make the top smooth as well and then just require a bolt on the top. I went out this weekend and picked up all the styrene I would need to do the job so as soon as I get one made I will post pics.

I think you are right about the A Bor C version in Africa and it being easier to make the dampers. I really do have my heart set on doing that Africa Korps version.

renarts, as far as the damper, I think you have hit the nail on the head. I never realized it until you described it, but yah, I think that is a sleeve that goes around the outside of the rubber damper with just a little of the rubber protruding from the bottom. Great build by the way. It really looks like it is coming along nicely. Oh, let me see if I can come up with a pic for the dampers. I am also having a hard time finding a clear pic of them.

rebelreenactor, the build looks great so far. Keep us up to date.

Kennethc, I have built the Italeri H kit and it was a great build. The Italeri H is actually quite accurate. Yah, its and Italeri kit which means a lot of cleaning up flashing, getting out the putty and fiddling with the pieces before they fit, but it was a great build. The only thing that the kit could really benefit from is the Tamiya vehicle part kit, and some replacement shruzen. The brackets that fit onto the fender were molded right onto the shruzen and that bugged me, but other than that, no complaints about the kit. Oh, if you want to get anal, the tracks can go too.

feldgrau, I looked and have not found any mention of any Pz IV As, Bs, or Cs in Africa. I am starting to think that trying to make new dampers might be the best option or I could send you the dampers off one of my kits. That way I will be forced to fabricate new ones.

Richard James, I think I have a set of the Pz IV tracks that came with the old Tamiya kit. If you are just looking for some replacements and live in the continental US, I could send them to you. Otherwise, I would go with Friulmodel tracks. They are quite accurate, and you wont spend years putting them together.

j.s.harrison, sure, hop in the build if you want. I will add you to the list

Foster, you are a mad man!! I am surprised you have any vision left to complete the build. I cant wait to see this OOTB build, lol!!

All, concerning the dampers, does anyone live near a Pz IV and not mind taking some pics for us? I was thinking, perhaps we could have a bit of a consortium on making the dampers. I have access to an electronics lab and could probably photo etch parts to make the damper. I could also try to pump out a diagram on autocad, but I need someone who has a VERY precise printer to print up a mask for me. Once we get one master made, perhaps we could approach Tiger Model Designs to cast it and make some copies for us, or try ourselves. Of course I have no idea how much that would cost, but it was a thought.

Sorry for the lengthy post, but I am on this lest posting, more building kick. I am pretty far behind here and need to get some kits finished.

Good luck all!!

Very helpful illustration edog. By chance do you (ar anyone) have a clean picture of the damper? I'm spending alot of time trying to build these and its like I'm missing something. They just aren't looking right. A photo would help me immensly.

Thanks.

I'm watching your posts very intently Robert. I have that kit and will be working on it this fall, and will be very interested in any info you impart on the build.

I'm, anxious to see the work on the tracks you've done.

My Fellow Build-Along Compatriots,

As I looked back through these posts - all the way to Page 2!!! - I discovered that my original post, announcing my modifications to the individual track links in my Dragon Ausf G "Kursk" kit, was made on 15 June...15 June!!! Ok, who's been editing the dates on the posts?

I can't believe it's been almost 2 weeks, but I guess with everything I've been doing, it's possible.

I can now report that every track link has been drilled out, shaped, all flash removed, seam lines cleaned up, and then categorized by condition. Happily, I did not ruin ANY of the links through my efforts and only 8 of them are what I would term "iffy" for use.

I actually finished up yesterday, but needed to take a day off and let my eyes refocus.

Additional updates on my OTB build should be forthcoming quickly. I really like what I've seen from the other builds, but to be honest, I'm glad I'm not letting my AMS syndrome take over completely on this one.

Take care and enjoy your modeling,

OK this is one GB i'd love to join i only have a Panver 1V Flakpanzer from Academy.
This will only be my 2nd Tank the first being the Tamiya Panzer 11.
I'm normally a A/C modeler But you never know i may just come over to the "DARKSIDE"
Just one ? is there any official finish date.
Edog if you accept my Flakpanzer 1V for this GB can you please add my username to the list as a definatly.
Thanks J.S.

Hey guys, I have a Pnzer IV related question, and was directed in this direction. Does anyone know where I can get a set of tracks for a Flackpnzer IV Wirbelwind. Lets just say that I managed to completly destroy the ones from Tamiya. I was thinking of trying some of those individual link tracks for the first time on this one, but as I said before, I'm basiculy clueless on that. Thanks in advance!

Petbat,man i wish i could fix it, but it is on there pretty good. I tried a little to fix it but it was hopelesss. I could use the un-cure debonder, but last time i used it, it melted the plastic.

THe yellow tracks are plastic. It was part of a detail set by tamiya for the PZ IV. It is not very good though, most of the details on the D are better than the set.

Thanks for the comments guys, just wish it was comming along better.

P.S. I have gotten a lot more done since the pics.

Ok ya'll I pulled out the Italeri H kit this morning before work and looked it over. Once again the mantlet is damaged just like the other one. I will try an turn a new one if I can't find a replacement. The thin lip of the mantlet where it matches up to the gun tube is mangled from the packaging. I also broke down and ordered a set of Eduard Zim for this one. I don't really fancy the PE Zim but I REALLY don't want to zim it by hand with all those little fittings to go around...

Ya'lls stuff is lookning great. Mike, Theres nothing like the sight of an old kit crusted up with white styrene bits.... Good Job...!

Rebelreenactor, Looking good pal.!

Looking nice mike. All my references show the aerial deflector frame was not fitted to the mantlet too. Home made chain is hard reproduce for close ups! I tried winding fine wire in and out of pins pushed into some balsa. Looked okay, but I go lazy on this one now and use Tiger Model Design very fine chain - Cheap as chips at 12" for AUD $6-50 (about $5 US) and looks great to.

Like the sliver of styrene in the idler adjuster - who has a Tamiya D or H that doesn't need it?

Coming along nice rebel. What is that yellow track link? It looks resin. Any chance gentle persuassion will get that plate off without too much damage?

Love the pic of the tweezers, been there done that. Ever dropped a tiny piece and found it minutes later - melted on top of the open jar of glue? I have. Led to my first attempt at scratchbuilding. I keep the lid on now.

John and Mike your IVs are coming along nicely.

Edog,,, now you got me thinking do I or dont I ???? Well let me know what the major and minor changes are. Keep in mind I will not be doing an interior on this so inside changes wont be that important. Most likely I will change it to a B. I have found some of the changes and 1 of the major ones is that the front is not angled between the driver and radio operator which will move the side vision port up as well as the lifting hook. Also the idler wheel looks a little different as well. Yeah the more I think about it I think I will make it a B of course this means possibly changing the main color back to Panzer Grey unless in my research I can find that there werre B's in the Desert. I Think there were but alas back to the research.

Heres the turret on mine. The Eduard PE is o.k. but has some issues.
I closed up the vision blocks and replaced some parts like stowage hooks with scratchbuilt. The PE reinforcement band on the rear of the turret was too short. So I made a new one from styrene. The rivets are styrene rod cut and sanded to an appropriate height. replaced the grab handles becuase it was easier to make them from wire than it was to scrape the parting line off the kit pieces.


The periscope had no opening so I hogged out a divet in the periscope housing and filled it with putty. I then used a home made tool to make the impression of the port opening for the periscope.
The frame under the gun is trimmed differently than what the kit calls for. It shows it attached to the mantlet but the photo documentation I have does not reflect this. So it was trimmed up (you can't see it in the pic).


The hull rear with the improvised chains I posted about earlier. In this close up pic they really look bad. But with the naked eye they look much better. A buddy of mine was over the other night and asked where I found such small chain so it passed the visual test.

CRAP! I drove all the way to Jacksonville to the NSLHS....an no Pz IV! Yaaaaah.. I could have called but then I wouldn't have ended up with the new AFV Club 251 Halftrack and Ospreys Panzer Modeling Masterclass.... I just couldn't go in there without buying something....

Anyway back to the point... How dreadful is the Italeri Pz IV H.... I have one that I can spruce up a bit with Tamiya's OVS and what not... What should I watch out for as far as fit....?

Frosty, Great job on the scratchbuilding... You are becoming known for it....
It good to such zeal from the younger crowd....

oh yeah, the big peices are dry fit.

Alright here are some progress pics. They were taken yesterday so i have a little more completed.




I had a major screw up beyond repair without a dremel. I started construction on step 6 and then never finished it. I took a break, came back and started working on step 7.
i was working on one side and then i realized i had a big mistake. I glued the Late version armor plates too far back. I i would halve completed step 6 this never would have happened.


I think i could have trimmed this off with a dremel.

its a blurry picture but basically it is a huge gap that i will fill in with putty.

and to make things a bit more interesting, i was going to put the handle ont he engine cover and the part flew to the beyond. As soon as i finished making a handel out of wire and glued it into place, this is where i found it.

oh well.
and to make things worse for me, I have been to rough with some of the small pieces and one of the broke. right now it is being glued back together.
well i hope everything is going well for you guys.

Thanks edog. I'm with you though, if it's not right, then it's not right. To the styrene stash!
So... based on your drawing and the******poor reference I have of them...
The triangular shaped plate that attaches to the hull has a cylindrical sleeve attached to it, beneath the two vertical plates or brackets and the rubber damper is set up inside this sleeve or housing. The rubber damper protrudes down out of the sleeve a bit?

thanks

MurderDogg, I think I speak for all of us when I say we would love to see some pics of your Pz IV.

Rebelreenactor, From photos, it appears that the inside of the hatches to be painted the same color as the expterior.

Feldgrau, I plan on making one damper and casting the rest in resin. You may want to give it a try as well. As far as backdating the kit, you would have to revamp the gun mantel, remove the turret traverse motor muffler, remove some of the supports around the tow hitch, and a bunch of minor stuff. If you don’t get too carried away with the minor stuff, it might not be too hard. I realize you may have been kidding, but if you get seriously thinking about a backdate, let me know.

Renarts, you could try that with the dampers to correct them a little, but it would still bug me. It’s just a personal preference I guess. I would say do what ever you want for your kit and if the dampers don’t bug you, then don’t worry about it.

Looking at the drawings edog, I was thinking. Regarding the Tamiya D, Why not trim the bracket at the horizontal piece of the damper and attach a section of dowelr or rod to represent the rubber damper? The bracket isn't all that different is it?

Rebel If i am not mistaken,, and somebody correct me if I am wrong but they were painted the same as the exterior of the vehicle.

Edog,,,, thanks for the drawings. I am going to geuss then if the dampers were 5mm tall and 5mm wide at the bottom then the top was about 3mm wide with about 1mm on each side of supports and the rubber damper will be about 4mm wide. Man,, I may need to get my eyes checked after doing six of these. I wonder if converting this to an A or B would be easier???

Thanks edog, so maybe a steel ish color?

Now another question What color would the inside of the hatches be? Would it be panzer gray? or would it be white?
thanks guys, should be the last question (I hope)

Too bad. I just finnished my panzer IV and it looks great. Maybe I'll be able to post pics within a day or two if you guys would like. Let me know.

I did it. I ordered the Italeri Pz IV Ausf. F1/F2. I'm getting it from Roll Model and they say it will be 2-3 weeks untill it's ready to ship, is this normal?
Does anyone know if this kit has indy tracks? I would like to have the indy tacks, so if it doesn't who would you suggest I get?

rebelreenactor, the return rollers should be two colors. The rollers were still rubber on the Pz IV D. As far as the color on the muffler, well it would have been painted the same color as the tank, but the constant heating and cooling would have made the paint chip off fast. Once the paint started to chip off, it wouldn’t be long before it started to rust. So I guess you have to ask yourself, “how new is this Pz IV D?”

Those are some really cool builds. For sure.

On the D... What is the correst color for the muffler??? rust?
And the directions say to paint the return wheels in one color? is this right? most pics i found showed that they were two colors, black and gray. Anyone know?

WOW, you some of you guys are coming along nicely!! everyone has some great builds so far, thanks for sharing. As for myself, well i have barely started the Dragon Pz IV F2. I have told myself that I have to get some other stuff done first and that other stuff is going a lot slower than I thought it would.

feldgrau23, here is a sketch I made up of the original dampers. I hope this helps. Oh, and you can’t really make it out, but there are two bolts holding the rubber damper onto the bracket. As best I can tell the dampers should be about .5cm at the widest point, and about .5cm in height.


good luck with your builds all!!

FYI, very nicely done panzer IV.
http://www.track-link.net/gallery/2793

Whoa! Found them. Looked on GM site and they are listed as Parts Accessories ptp72020 for $12.95 retail, $11.65 web price, but they aren't in stock. Maybe you can find one at one of your favorite sites.

Good luck.

Geez, I don't know about you, Peter, what do you really think?? lol

Frosty, I've seen the mesh shurzen in 1/72 PE by Parts, but it's been a while. I'll see if I can find a hit for you.