ARMOR - Pz IV Group Build

Nice work Rodolfo. That kit is the reissue of the 1975 Tamiya Ausf H - the one I plan to build. As I said, that kit needs some work!

Very nice job on the scratchbuilt armour Frosty, but Mr Rivet Counter asks:
What version was the initial kit? Looks like a G because it looks like it has the L/43 gun, has solid arms on the drive sprockets (what is that bump on the sprocket centre?) and it looks like it has the aerial trough down the side. Has the turret got a small circular hatch on the flat panel near the cupola? If so then this is a G which didn't have the hull schurtzen although you have the correct type for a very early H but then the hull would need zim. (Just ignore Mr Rivet counter, he is just a pain in the rear end)

The H /J had the L/48 gun (about 15 inches longer), new drive sprockets (see rodolfo's pic here),

the aerial was relocated to the rear hull opposite side and they did not have the signal port on the turret roof. Also, the late H's and all J's had steel return rollers for the tracks not the rubber lined ones and the new cast idler wheels, not the tube frame ones. The H had a separate muffler for the auxiliary engine whereas the J didn't. (it's the square box to the left of the muffler in this pic of Rodolfo's. Note the aerial mount here too.)


After your scratchbuilt M32, a conversion to a IV Ausf J shouldn't prove too hard for you. Getting the mesh to scale and to stick will be a good experience! Gotta love someone who scratchbuilds. Do you drill out your track guidehorns too

here's pix of my first attempt at a PzIV,
hasegawa 1/72 w/ scratchbuilt spaced turret armor & shurzen (side skirts).





4 this build i'm going 2 use the same base kit, & try & do a conversion 2
an ausf. J, w/ mesh screen shurzen & only 3 return rollers...
maybe even do a bit of interior work...
i'll b taking my time on this build, i like the no deadline aspect 4 sure !

frosty

rtvmodeler... Great work, I like that a lot. The camo looks super.

rtv,,, I saw your other pics in another thread. again awesome job.

Rodolfo,
Wow! nice work!
thanks for giving us the link to your pictures.
the roadwheel mask is a great idea.
but what, exactly is plasticine?
is it like clay?
i guess it does not react w/ paint (leave stains or residue)
this could be a great help.

Hello friends:

Nice group!, your works are excellent, congratulations. I want to share with you my work of my Panzer IV, I hope you like it

Please go to: http://rtv-mm.com/MyProjects/PanzerIV/panzeriv-1.htm

Regards,
Rodolfo

I started construction today. I decided to start out with the turret.I was dissapointed though becuase i wasnt really paying attention when i glued on the top. It might have ruined the model. Left gaps In a few places. Might be able to fix it. Its all done, except i am going to wait to attach the main gun until i paint the interior. Not sure I will begin the hull.

All 3D things are comprised of 4 shapes or combinations of shapes. Break it down into those, and you can scratchbuild anything.

Cube
Cone
Cylinder
Sphere

i.e. look at your hand. A cube (palm) attached to a sphere (wrist) attached to a cylinder (arm). From it extend cylinders(fingers), with spheres in between(knuckles).

Kenneth.....every time.....then I complain that I need to buy a new kit to replace the parts I stole out of the other!

Go back and check out the Dragon kit. At least 1/2 the kit is spare parts....I'm not joking. The kit is made up of sprues from the early brumbar, Jagdpanzer IV and one other. So instead of just copying the appropriate masters for a new mould, they threw in the whole sprue the original parts were on. In some case you only use a few parts off the whole sprue. I have 2 sets of pioneer tools left over, as well as a full set of rubber road wheels, Idler wheels, external transmission housings, towing clevis' and the retaining clamps and wing nuts, rear engine bay hatches, MG mounts, etc, etc, etc.

Bill, I was scratchbuilding before they invented PE. If you can use that fiddely Aber stuff you can scratchbuild. All you need is a good eye, some good references, and enough money to buy the styrene stock oh, and a certain amount of patience although my stock of that runs out from time to time.

For anyone interested, here is a site with some internal pics of the Ausf G at Munster and a H/J -forgot where. The site also has some good technical info too.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/willphelps/Album0000023.htm

Also Tanks2scale has quite a few pics including detail shots of several IV's:
http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?doc=German%20Tanks&wikiid=92&wpid=146336

Thanks for the Info Edog. I was really unsure. I have found some pics with them and some without. Most likely then the Info with the pics is wrong. No harm tho. If they were wrong then they needed to come off anyhow. Do you have a pic of the way they should look??? If you do I can probably manufacture some.

Thanks, Erick. I didn't know that about the zimm not being on all Iv J's. I guess I was going by the pic on the boxtop (I think it shows zimm!??! ) . I've actually been dreading it for some reason on the IV, so will be more than happy to leave it off, thank you very much!

What do you find is a good ref for the IV's in general??

Thanks for you help, as always

Welcome to the forum gcbob, and yes the Jagdpanzer IV was built on a Pz IV chassi.

Bill, some Pz IV Js did have zim on them, and I have seen them with and without zim on the lower sides of the hull. However, if you are building the Dragon Pz IV J, you should probably leave the zim off. The vertical exhausts included in the Dragon Pz were not incorporated until August of 44 and they stopped applying zim in September of 44. So very few of these Pzs had zim on them. If you must have zim on the tank though, I would put it on the lower hull sides.

Bill, Most pics I have seen of Pz IVs with zimmerit dohave it on the lower hull... yes.

Question about Zimmerit on these things (specifically a J). Did the Germans put zimmerit on the lower hull between the tortion bars above the road wheels? I saw a picture somewhere of someone doing a IV of some type and he put zimm there. It makes sense, I guess, since they didn't have the big road wheels to cover the sides of the lower hull. Dragons kit has some parts placement marks there and if it's proper to put zimm over it, I won't bother cleaning up the area quite as well.

Thanks

How about the Jagdpanzer IV....its the same chassis...??

feldgrau23, Im sorry to say this, but the Pz D should have all the dampers. They can be hard to spot in some photos, but they are there. If you check out the museum photo about half way down the page, you will see the dampers. Here is the link:
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/html/germany/pzkpfw_iv_photos.html

The dampers that the Tamiya Pz IV D has are incorrect in shape though. Here is another photo of a Pz IV G, but it still has the correct dampers.

http://tanxheaven.com/dg/panzer4Gdg/panzer4Gdg-008.jpg

I believe it was the Pz C and before that did not have the dampers. You should be able to easily tell thought because the D had a new gun mantel shield and had extra support around the tow hitch in the back.

Well gang after checking photos, the only Dampers that should be on the D version are the first and last ones. I have removed the middle three and filled them in. The only thing I goofed on was using a pen to mark the openings that I made and unfortunately the pen bled thru. I will post Pictures later tonight. Else wise things are progressing nicely.

I got the Eduard pe mesh side screens on order for my Dragon J yesterday. I downloaded the instructions last week and the screens look incredible. Now, if I can just sort all the little pics of clamps and fittings out, I'll be in good shape.

btw; anybody else bugged by the fact that a lot of times the PE instructions say to use a piece of plastic rod, or something, and they don't tell you what diameter to use or how long to make it?? Guess they figure if you want to use their sets, you should be able to sight in a piece, but that's why I don't do scratch building! I'm sure this is no big deal to Peter, Mike, and Domi, among others!

Petbat LOL ... you too... When I build a kit I pull out ALL of the variants I have to see what can be swapped.... Its more fun having 5 different colored spures on the bench or worse their all the same color and tryin to sort them back out when your done...

SO did you find any thing useful in the Brumbar box... I have that one but haven't looked at it in years. If I didn't want and Pz IV proper I would build that one...

Peace ya'll

Yeah that's nice work - more metal than plastic- but his Luger barrel is bent!

Took the parts for my old Tamiya Ausf H out of the plastic bags and gave it a wash. I was hoping to do an OOB build, but there is so much needing to be done. Opened up my Dragon Late Brummbar to0 see what extra's were in there that I could use, (picture Simpsons theme music here) 'hmmmmmm spare parts' .

No, must resist temptation to start conversion and scratchbuilding, must resist........... must resist........... resistance is futile. (Where did that voice come from?)

QUOTE: Originally posted by edog Aaronw, first off, welcome!! as far as the end date, well I will be lucky if I get half of the ones I have planned done by Christmas. I think you should be fine shooting for August.

Oh, well if you're talking about Christmas then I'm in, my KV-2 and Cromwell need a target anyway and my Italian tanks could use the company. I expect I could squeeze some time in around mid July. Now to choose a version and find a kit.

Wow!

No-one likes an over achiever... Honestly Awsome though....

I am gonna go over to my NSLHS to try and find a Dragon or Tamiya PZ IV... something i can build OTB. I don't fancy messing with the Italeri kit right now...

Love the PE pieces. Seems to me like maybe too much sag on the tracks. Nice Grenadiers.

here is a link to a thread on another forum that will keep you guys motivated:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=212524&messageid=1087568256

I guess he MADE all of those figures too!!! CRAZEY!!

Aaronw, first off, welcome!! as far as the end date, well I will be lucky if I get half of the ones I have planned done by Christmas. I think you should be fine shooting for August.

I might get into this, I've been wanting to do a Panzer 4 but I've got so many projects laying about already and I'm going to be doing the emergency vehicle build starting 6/30. I know you said real lax on the end date, but what is the time frame you are considering, If I've got until at least the end of August I'm in, since I'll have to plan on a Sherman right after (one of my favorites).

Mike,, thanks for the link to that site. It will deffinately come in handy for when I do the interior of the IVJ I am doing for the D-Day Build.

thanks, thats a good site.

FYI
http://byrden.com/panzers/Colours/index.html

some interesting articles on colors