Model Shipways "Sultana" Group Build 2006

I have been very frustratingly busy at making the rails at front of ship. I took my ideas off of the actual Sultana at the Sultana site. I am not necessarily 100% happy with it, but no one will know unless someone critiques it here. No one will know except me if one of my freinds sees it- they won't know enough to make any judgements. Overall, I guess I am somewhat happy with my results.

i will post pictures maybe tomorrow. This ship has been a challenge. I am almost finished with the deck and will move on to the masting - rigging this coming week.

Donnie

The latest

enjoy

Donnie 

ps:need to cut down my timbers some. It is easier to remove than to add. 

I agree with you, Donnie, head rails can be scary  for the first-timer, but they needn't be. If you take a look at the plans sheet, you will see that they are all straight in at least one dimension. For example, the head rails are curved in the body plan (sections) and the sheer plan (full side view), but straight on the deck plan. Use this to your advantage and make them from a straight piece that you bend in the other dimensions as needed, first one way and then the other. It isn't as bad as it sounds.

On the issue of laser cut parts, I am not sure I agree with you. They do have a place. For instance, I recently saw the Bluejacket laser cut mast hoops. They're terrific and would look great after sanding down the burn marks and painting or staining them. But I think we should challenge ourselves as modelers and replace the kit supplied parts with scratch built. Lots of modelers prfer to finish their ships with stains ot just a clear finish, and you can't do that with the castings. For my Sultana, I scratch built the windlass from dowel and basswood pieces then gave it a red cherry stain. IMHO I think the result is superior to the casting in the kit. I did the same with the hatches as others here have done. As soon as I figure out this photo web hosting image download mumbo jumbo I'll post some pictures <G>.

Ed.

Fippy,

that is a VERY nice work indeed !

Donnie 

Bear with me on my "still" lack of good natical knowledge. The fore and aft Hatches and the one with the ladder are from the kit (the metal ones). I just used the Model Shipways paint that I ordered with the kit to paint them with. I used the yellow and the red and black. This is what I did. The first thing I grabbed was the Black and I painted the whole hatch with black so that the black would fill in the tiny holes in the grating. I waited for about 1 minute and took a small hand towel and rubbed the black off of the hatch and what happened is that the black was still "filled" in the hatch holes. Basically I used alot of black paint to completely fill in the holes so that when I wiped across the hatch all of the black paint would be removed except for the very top surface of the hatch. THe rest of this I just painted very carefully the hatch gratings with the yellow and trimmed in Red. This technique was done for the fore and aft hatches.

Now the midship hatch, I did not like the one supplied for only one reason. I could not get the raised individual hatch ring hoops to be painted. Chuck made his from scratch and even made his hoops from scratch.

SO I followed suit on that as well. I went ahead and made the midship hatch from scratch with the individual hatch plank covers. I then went to a local Hobby Lobby in the jewelery department and they had what is called an "eye pins" and "jump rings" . The eye pins were 2" long so I had to cut just about all of that length off. I then hammered the eye pin into the hatch plank until a small "arch" was visible. I just did it this way only becuase that is what I choose to do. No reference materials. I am not sure if I am going to add those hoop rings to the top of those arches or not. I would have to scratch make those as the purchased "jump rings" are little too big.

I then have some "Glaze" paint that I can not remember what the brand is. I am not at my home computer right now as I am out of town visiting other family members. The Glaze was used on all of the hatches and as a matter of fact on the whole ship. This glaze is nice as it leaves a very mild finish and can be applied in multiple coats to achieve the results that you like. One thing that I like about this glaze is that the more you put, the darker and richer the wood or paint finish gets.

Ok the Glaze name on the bottle actually just says "Glaze" and again I am not at my work bench so this is all I know. If I had to make a guess right now, it would be a Floquil or Model Masters type.

Well this should be enough info for you Fippy and others. I will post some more pics when I get back home.

I dread building the rails for the stem, cheek knees and such, this is going to be tough. I think what makes it tough is the fact that it points back to the directions and plans that MS gives us. It is good that we have Chucks practicum. I really feel for those that got this model and I know that they must be having a hard time.  Now this is just my humble opinion. I think that MS needs to seriously revisit this ship and offer MUCH more laser cuts parts. I say that this would be very good for the beginner. This model expect too much scratch building for a beginner. I am sorry - just my opinion. I would not mind paying a little more like $125 if they would have included more lazer cut parts to help along with the assembly. I think about myself and the ones that are coming from the plastic world. I think that people that are coming from Plastic into wood, still have a since of putting parts together. The first wood modeler does not need to get deeply involved in trying to build out cheek knees and extensive railings on their first Model. What I mean by first Model is Model Expo claiming that this is a good first ship to build. I might right them a encouraging letter to the effect. I like MS and I plan to buy the Phantom when all of this is over. I also have a Bluenose II that I bought like many many years ago that I need to finish. But you know that the enitre windlass and other parts are all lazer cut. Anyway, sorry for the side bar of ranting. I am not upset nor mad, I just hate to see a first inspired modeler on this SGB to get discouraged if they seem to have problems. Afterall, this is one of the main reasons I wanted to to this SGB, becuase I knew that I might have problems and if I have problems with it, then I know that someone else "out there" would have simular problems. We can all build this ship together and be proud of "your" finished product.  So, if those of you that are getting discouraged, please don't but get that ship out and go at it again and lets do it !

Thanks for listening to my long winded self this morning !!  Happy Thanksgiving to everybody.

Donnie

Nice work Donnie! I like your new stempost and your deck furniture is very clean. I especially like your ladder! I had a lot of problem with that - I kept breaking it. How did you make your hatches? They don't look like the effect you get when you glue hatch strips together. You are zooming along nicely there.

I've been in the UK for a week but I'm back in nice warm California again. I shall return to my own model probably Friday, so expect some photos next week.

It's nice to see others jumping back into the forum. Welcome! I can't wait to see photos and tales of your modelling adventures. :)

In a previous "post" here on the SGB, Chuck wrote

" If you have the web address for each of your photos then all you have to do is place that web address between these two HTML tags.

 [img]http://www.webaddresshere.com[//img]

 Please note however that I included two forward slashes in the closing tag otherwise you wouldnt be able to see the code.  So remove one of them so it looks like this  /img  and dont forget the open brackets and closing brackets around each tag. 

Chuck"

Donnie adds:

If you haven't already, you will need to get a free or paid account with a hosting site like Photobucket. This is what I use adn I have found that it is very straight forward with little learning curve. You will want to make your images 800 x 600 pixels in size.

go to www.photobucket.com and set up a free account. Load up your images. Set up a link in the forum postings and then everybody can see your stuff ! 

The main thing is to make sure that your IMAGE TAG is set up correctly. Follow the example in this post. If you have any problems, send me an email by clicking on the email link at bottom of the post.

Donnie 

Thanks, Donnie. I'll do that.

 Hmmmm, posting images .... something else to learn <g>

 Ed.

Some more progress (building that is)

Donnie 

No, it is not late to join. We would be delighted to have you in the group.  I started the group because I thought it would be nice to have the support from fellow builders to build something all together.  As it turned out, we have aquired many that have joined. Everyone is at different stages of their project.

I encourage you to become active in the SGB "Sultana Group Build" and post images of your ship and post regularly.

Thanks

Donnie 

Is it too late to join this group built? I've been away from the forums for some time and only just yesterday saw the GB badge on some of the ship forum posts. I've been working on this same kit since earlier this year. I am rigging her as modified by the Royal Navy.

Ed.

Hello to Donnie and Everyone again!

First, I was saddened to hear of your Father's passing, Donnie.  There always seems to be plenty of time for things until, suddenly, it's over and what are left are the memories.  At first for me, when my Father passed, there was an emptiness but in time I began to see myself more and more in the role he played - to my children and grandchild.  Your Father will always be with you because he left you with part of himself and, with time, the physical loss will lessen and the memories deepen.  My, and my family's, sympathy go to you.

As to you model, congratulations!  You said, I believe, at one point, that you were used to plastic and did not expect the Sultana, a wood kit, to be as easy.  Well, that's kind of true. But there again, if you didn't like the way the stem came out on a plastic model, would it be as easy to cut off and rebuild at this stage of the modeling process?  Would you even bother to notice that the plastic stem wasn't what you expected?  Maybe not because someone else made it and all you were supposed to do was glue it on.  This time it's your work you are judging and, as your skills have so nicely improved as you modeled, you began to notice the early work not up to the present standard.  I venture to guess, after you've build a few more models from either scratch or minimally detailed material, you will look back on your early models with a more "wizened" view thinking how they could be improved.

In the mean time, and it looks like I am speaking for most of the folks on this build, your modeling is inspiring.  I haven't even gotten to finishing the hull!  After my last post I was packed off again by my company and sent on another learning thing.  The last couple of weeks my wife and I have been remodeling our son's old bedroom into a - yeah! - hobby room!  So, I will probably not be working on the kit again until next week when I finish, but I watch this forum as much as possible - it spurs me on!  All you guys are doing a great job - keep up the good work!

A note for jtilley - a couple of times you have mentioned, in other forum posts, not understanding why Marx would make a metal deck for the Sea Witch model.  I think I know - for years (I believe from around 1915) Marx was a major toy manufacturer of, you guessed it, tinplate (lithographed) toys!  Very big also in the train and, later, plane toy market.  Some of their lithograph toys are quite collectible (and expensive) due to the fineness of their work.  They competed directly against the toy makers from Germany who, until the end of WWI, were the worlds best - that title ended up going to Marx.  In fact, Marx competed successfully against Lionel and Gilbert (American Flyer and Erector) although they were never as popular as either.  I believe it (the deck) was tin because it's what they knew best.  I wonder if that kit wasn't their trying to break into (or out of) the mold they had created as a toy maker and reach out to other markets?

Soon, I hope, I will be back joining all of you in the build.  And Donnie, you are your best critic.  If you're not satisfied with something, try it again after tackling a couple of other things - the skill will be there judging by what you have accomplished so far.  Look at the reworked stem - much better in your more critical eye now then when you first built it.   After all, isn't part of the fun building these things the satisfaction of learning how to do it better?

Have fun -

Chris

Well, I just could not let that poor stem alone as it looked horried. I cut off the stem near the hull and completely rebuild it. I think it looks better and I like it better. I must say to myself that if I took more time at this, I think I could produce a better model. I was looking at some ships last night at some mighty fine craftsmanship and it encouraged me to put forth more effort.  I guess I am spoiled by the plastic version in which everything is premolded and just glue the part in place. To me it was all about making that plastic part "look better" with aging and weathering techniques that I enjoy.  However, again with Wood, "you" are the captain of how it is going to turn out. You are in complete control of that "strip" of wood and how it is to be cut and fashioned. Yes, there is an "art" to this !

enjoy the pics.

Donnie

ps. those pictures don't lie about the touch up work that needs to be done. It is amazingly upsetting how the camera picks up on blemishes that you didn't think are there !

Fippy wrote:

Work as hard as you can to make it as good as you can, but know when to move on. :)

Fippy,

that was very nicely put. I too am perfectionist, and I am still learning. I think the older I get, the less perfectionist I try to be. I just do things (modeling) that pleases me. So far all my ships have been seen by my wife and maybe a few others.

Donnie

My encouragement to all is to not become discouraged - we are all in this together to build that ship that each of us are uniquely proud of.

I agree Donnie, that we need to put everything in perspective. 

I'm not too happy with my stern windows either, but I have spent a great deal of my life being a perfectionist. As I get older I am constantly trying to "let go" and relax. I still firmly believe that a job worth doing is worth doing well and I'm not one to give up easily.. however, I also realise that I am building ships for fun and if I either stress too much or keep rebuilding the part over and over then I'm not getting the maximum benefit of this amazing hobby.

I also accept that this is my maiden build in a brand new hobby so I'll allow myself some mistakes. I doubt my first ship is going to impress seasoned modellers, but it will be MY ship and I will know that I built her, and that my next one will be better.

Work as hard as you can to make it as good as you can, but know when to move on. :)

It seems that you are hard at work at yours as well. I don't know what to say or suggest about the front Stempost area. I am too having difficulty with this and plan to remove mine and start again. I think it is the consensus of the SGB that everybody is going to have a different take on how their ship should be. 

I am going to go get some much harder wood and shape it for my sterpost area as I am not happy with it. I wished that the Sultana would have at least come with a laser cut stempost so that their would not be any misinterpretation of how it should be. I know that we have the plans and also Chucks practicum, but still I think that Model Shipways should have provided more laser cut pieces. The Transom piece also could have been laser cut with the windows already punched out. I am not that thrilled with my windows, but that is ok. 

I have to come back that this is a past time hobby, even though I tend to take my hobbies seriously.

Just keep up the work on your ship, it will turn out to be a ship that you will be proud of I am sure.  I am certainly not trying to enter my ship in a contest. I am doing this for relaxation and fun. I wanted to start this Group Build becuase I knew that i would need the assistance of all and plus mostly, it is more fun to do this with many people at the same time as I do not feel alone in this venture.

Donnie 

When I did the front I did not like the look of the notch for the figure head and I completed removed it as you can see in the photo;  dont know how authentic it looks though,  any thoughts?.

Looks like that worked, thank you for the tip.  This is where I am picking it up from again.  Will post pictures of the stern when I finish,  I abandoned the one in the pics and started again.  Don't like the windows here.

Gentlemen,

Enjoy your group build and would just like to pass on some great pics of Sultana  1 on 1 scale. Please go to Dry Dock Models web site and in the Forum under General Discussion see "Downrigging Weekend". I think you might enjoy.

Dan

 If you have the web address for each of your photos then all you have to do is place that web address between these two HTML tags.

 [img]http://www.webaddresshere.com[//img]

Please note however that I included two forward slashes in the closing tag otherwise you wouldnt be able to see the code.  So remove one of them so it looks like this  /img  and dont forget the open brackets and closing brackets around each tag. 

Chuck

Donnie,

 Your model is looking just fine.  Its a pleasure to see how everyone made each Sultana their own.  They are very unique.  I agree with your earlier statements about instructuions from kit manufacturers.  Model shipways has agreed to post my first builders guide on their website but I havent sent them the Sultana guide yet.  I have been really busy but I hope they will post this one as well.  The guides are really large files though and they seem to post them as one rediculously huge download.  I will try and convince them to break out each chapter so folks wont have to wait long for the download. 

 Anyway.  Donnie's comparison of plastic kits vs. wooden was interesting to me.  I experienced the opposite.  I bought two plastic kits so I could build them with my kids.  They were intermediATE LEVEL BI PLANES.  I have to tell you I am completely lost and frustrated.  I think that experience is felt with both types of modelling.   Each one has a learning curve.  I havent given up yet but have stopped building them.  In order to give them the proper attention, I need to buy several guides and books to show me the proper techniques working with plastic.  I am not eager to start over again with another learning curve just yet so I continue work in wood.  Go figure. .....And I wish to thank everyone here for their kind words and support with regard to my guides.  It means a lot and I will certainly write more of them since Model shipways has reintroduced several additional solid hull kits.  I just dont know which to build first.

 Chuck

I still cannot figure out how to upload images if anyone can help me out here.

 I have them in photobucket but cannot get them to here.

Thanks

Dan

Wow, nice work!!

You really moved along from your last photos! She looks great, especially the transom with the white frames and the detail on the caprails. Nice.

The stem is definitely a strange shape without all the cheeks and knees. Are you going to use the figurehead? I'm not - I'm doing mine as the British took it and I believe they removed the figurehead. I broke mine in a couple of places too, but judicious glueing, filling and sanding renders is invisible, especially under the paint. I'm glad I'm painting and not staining - paint hides more sins.

Keep her coming. She looks great.

Oh, and welcome back Dan. :)

Donnie,

 I for one empathise with your post and almost for the exact same reasons. As a newbie I didn't expect my first build to take 5 hours, nor be anything like the little Airfixaircraft kits I used to glue together as a kid. In fact I was definitely after something challenging, something to stretch my talents, take a LONG time and take all my attention. I work as a software engineer and so time away from the screen is very welcome to me as I get older. :)

 I totally agree  about the instructions for the Sultana. I too don't want to overly criticise Model Shipways since the kit is excellent, and is a fairly simple ship to start with. I certainly wouldn't feel confident scratchbuilding at this stage. For the money, which is very reasonable, I expect the medium quality of the metal components and roughly-shaped hull. I would, like you, have expected much more detailed instructions. Without you guys and Chuck's practicum I think I would have gotten lost by now. Their instructions are really quite brief.

Of course one could argue that it takes a lot of money to produce detailed instructions with sketches and photos, etc., and it does. I'm wondering if a good solution would be for companies like Model Shipways to solicit the help of experienced modellers. I bet almost any skilled modeller would be only too happy to invest time in writing a practicum for the cost of a free copy of the kit and a credit, or some token fee like $1000. It doesn't have to be as detailed as Chuck's, nor have suggest rebuilding the components at each step, but simply use the kit components with detailed steps.

Thank God for communities on the web like this one, and all the clubs around the world, to help out and encourage newcomers.

Keep posting those photos Donnie, and I shall do the same! Our ships may differ but I love seeing how you did things differently to me and I am definitely learning from everything you post. :)

As usual, not taking my time to make quality pictures, but here is my progress so far.  I keep reminding myself that this is a hobby right?  

Everybody enjoy - thanks for tuning in.

ps. I am going to completely redo that front piece - its   "u g l y !!!"  and its also for those to laugh at - hey I know its funny looking. Just need to bring it back into the ship yard for some more work ! On a serious note, I am realy not happy with the wood that was used to make that stempost and that cut out for the figure head. The wood kept on cracking and would not do what I want it to do. It seems that the wood supplied should have been much harder wood. But at anyrate, I am going to cut that off and maybe go by some harder wood that I can fashion better. 

Donnie 

Hi Dan

I am glad to see you back on the Sultana again, and I can't wait to see those windows!

Donnie

My first model from Model Expo was the Black Prince.  I did not realize how difficult it would be to build until after I received it and started trying to put together the directions.  It took me over a year but I feel that I was able to build a decent model.  There is still a few details that I need to complete on it but I like the results so far and I am leaning towards making a diorama type display with my almost completed model sitting at the pier awaiting its final outfittle prior to sailing.  I live in the New Bedford, MA area wich gives me a very old port to find information and pictures to scratchbuild a era specific waterfront from.  This time however I am glad that I have somewhere to get advice and ideas from for this new model.  I will say however though that a solid hull Donnie is much easier then a plank on bulkhead build.  I think in comparison that is why Model Expo states that the Sultana is a popular build.  Though I believe that they do overstate the ease of shaping the hull.  I added planking to the hull but would say that carving and shaping the hull of this ship was not easy to do.  I do like the directions though and feel that they are far easier then the 4 pages I received with the Black Prince.  In fact I do no intend  to build anymore ships that have a 4 and 6 page plan for directions.  The rigging plan was so complicated that I had to buy a seperate book to complete the model.

Dan