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Model Shipways "Sultana" Group Build 2006

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  • Member since
    November 2005
Hi again
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 7, 2006 5:14 PM

It's been quite a while since I was here,  this time of year is really busy for work and I had to take a break to help my son build his Pine Car Derby Racer.  Then my daughter decided she wanted to join in so we all did one.  But my workbench is cleared and I am back to work on the Sultana again. 

Glad to see all the pictures and recent posts.  I will post some pictures tonight.  Still having trouble with my transom windows, I have probably made 20 windows and have yet to get a set that I really like.  Will try a method later tonight  though that will hopefully yield the results I am looking for.  

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Tuesday, November 7, 2006 1:11 PM

I was thinking today how fantastic it is to share our interest with each other.  I was also thinking "why do I post the pictures of my ship anyway?" I guess it is a sense of "accomplishments" and to give and receive a sense that I am not the only one that is building these ships. I don't feel like I am the only one out there racking my head over a set of manufactures plans and directions that do not seem to make much sense and that I am not alone. So when I post my pictures, it is more like, "this is what I have done and my accomplishments" not so much that I have anything to boast about. All along in building this Sultana, I have had a sense of "I am lost as to what to do"

In a way, I am almost disenchanted with the instructions and plans that came with the model. If it were not for people in the SGB and also Chucks practicum to "go by" and I use the term go by, becuase I am not out to make a model based on exact things that he did. I want my ship to personify Donnie. I also want to reemphasize that I turn to Chucks practicum when I get stuck.

It almost seems that Model Expo over sold the Sultana and saying how easy it is to build. I guess it must be me, but I guess I am used to the plastic versions that the pieces have already been molded and there is really not too much that can go wrong. However, with the Wooden ships, there is infinite amounts of decisions about what to do. How much to sand, how much to paint, what shade of paint, where do I place the plankshear, and other items and the list goes on and on.

I don't mean to complain about model expo, but somehow, they need to come up with a model for beginners that has more TRUE hull already formed. They need to have more LASER cut parts so as to eliminate the guesswork.

You know why I base this information is becuase several months ago, I bought the Midwest Lobster Boat for R/C control. Well, upon opening the box, I was first greeted with a instruction booklet as thick as a magazine with hundreds of steps. The steps were so elementary that it left NO guesswork what-so-ever.  What to glue, where to glue and how to glue. What part goes exactly were and for what purpose.

I know that the Lobster Boat cost like 3 times the other, but good greif, you know, after thinking about it, it seems that the Sultana is not for beginners.

I am sorry for going on like this and it is not my purpose to discourage anyone, but you know, someone else out there on this forum might be just as much discouraged and I am here to tell you that if I can do it , you can to, and THIS is why I post my images. To let others know that even though in my opinion that this kit is really not that fantasic, it can be done. I am thinking about that first modeler that has no clue about ships, how do you think they would deal with this kit? I have some experience with ship building and I am having difficulty with this model, so would someone feel that has never tackled on of these before. Well, the answer I guess lies in this SBG forum to help and people like me having a difficult time can relate to those others that are having a difficult time as well. As a matter of fact, I am wondering right now how many of you that finally got the hull sanded down ever thought that you could muddle thru the rest of it like the thought that I had. I thought to myself "Thank goodness I made it that far even though I am not 100% for sure that I did it right. I am sending out this message to those to take heart even though you might be having problems, I know that I am, but I am trying not to get discouraged. Pick up the ship again with a renewed interest and think that there is no one to impress but just yourself. If you are happy with your ship, then that is all that matters. I am trying to get happy with my build. What is a fantastic model? the one that YOU are proud of !

Dont' give up -

Donnie 

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Friday, November 3, 2006 11:12 AM

LOL...your "sad story" blows mine out of the water!  Nice job!

              greg

http://www.ewaldbros.com
  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Thursday, November 2, 2006 10:29 PM

I can tell you that I am taking a break from trying to mount the transom. I am not going to be able to make the windows like I want.

I will soon post images of this sad story later :-)

 

Donnie 

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, November 2, 2006 12:13 PM

Coming along very very nicely. I love that rudder hole detailing, that looks great! A really nice touch. I eagerly await how your transom turns out.

Keep it going, Donnie.

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Thursday, November 2, 2006 11:58 AM

Ok, here are some pics of the latest.

I am ready to start on the brass pieces for the Rudder and start building the Transom today. I want to say that if you see some marks and some dings that is just due to accidently breaking something or whatever that I plan to go back and touch up more as I go along. I wanted to show the detail of the rudder opening area. I got that off of a webiste and I will be glad to share that site, but I need to go back and look it up. That web site BTW was suggested by someone else on this SGB.

 

 

 

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, October 30, 2006 1:07 PM

Fippy,

Shes coming out great.  Nice and clean.  I can tell your hooked.  Wait till you start accumulating tools and kits like a pack rat.  It cant be helped.  Once again very nice job and keep the pics coming.  I enjoy seeing you progress.  Have you hit any other big hurdles other than the stern?

 

Chuck

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, October 29, 2006 1:17 AM
Donnie, I hope your back gets better again soon. If you're worried about your transom, just read back how I made a total mess of the stern of my ship and that you just couldn't possibly do as bad a job of it as I did. :) I bet yours comes out a lot better than mine and I can't wait to see your photos. As you can see, my deck is coming along nicely. My "stern curse" struck again when I made a mess of the decking right near the rudder extension. I should have measured the hole precisely rather than thinking I could patch the decking seamlessly. Ah well... we live and learn. :) I intend to cover the joins with coils of rope or something. I'm totally loving this as a hobby.
  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Saturday, October 28, 2006 6:32 PM

Well,

I will be mounting my Rudder next - maybe Sunday. Then I guess I am on to the Transom, which again I am not looking forward to. It seems like one of those task that could go on forever. I should not complain as this ship is not as complicated nor is it a scratchbuild.

I hurt my back (again) so I am limited to how much sitting I can do.

 

Donnie 

 

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 1:03 PM
Well,
last night I started on the Keel, Stem and sternpost ( I guess I got that right). I don't think that I will like fooling with the Transom, but it has to be done. Besides, I don't think the ship will look quite right without it Smile [:)]

Donnie

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 11:28 AM
Welcome Back Donnie! We missed you. Let me join the others in offering my sympathy for your loss. That is enough to distract anyone from their hobbies. We aren't mad at you, we just missed you.

I can't wait to hear more about your progress. Oh and pop along to modelshipworld if you haven't already done so, to see Chuck's progress on his Mayflower. Great stuff!

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 11:22 AM
Thanks everybody.
I hope that I can blow the dust off my workbench tonight and get started. By the Way - Chuck has a most wonderful ship - his is very inspiring to say the least.

Donnie
I hope that I can rekindle building again tonight

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 10:53 AM

Donnie, please accept my heartfelt condolences on the passing of your father.  I lost mine in 1990, and the experience still gnaws at me.  Even today, I find myself walking through a bookstore, seeing a new title, and thinking, "there's a good Christmas present for Dad."

I can only think of one good thing to say about the experience of losing a father:  you only have to go through it once.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 9:55 AM

Donnie,

So sorry to hear about your father.  No one could be upset with you but we did miss seeing your progress.  Your Sultana model is spectacular and you should continue the work.  Heres my advice.  Just spend one hour working on the model where you left off.  My bet is that after 15 minutes that love you had for the hobby will be back.  Before you know it...it will be 1am you have been modeling for for 5 hours and lost track of time.  Try to endulge yourself by blocking out everything else and model.

 

Let me know if there is anything I can do.

 

Chuck

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Monday, October 23, 2006 11:10 PM

Hey...you have all of our deepest sympathies, I am sure. Take time to be thankful for how much time you had with him. We'll all still be here.

   Thoughts are with you , sir.

 

                            Greg

http://www.ewaldbros.com
  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Monday, October 23, 2006 10:36 PM
Folks -
I am very sorry for being absent for long. So many things have happened. It seems as if I have fallen way way behind !

My father took a bout of illness (more than usuall), and he is not with me any longer as he has passed away.  Somehow, amoungst all of this, I have let my poor Sultana sit by the side, and I must regain my interest so that I can play catch up with everyone. I hope that no one here is upset with me that I took such a long time away from the forum. I miss everyone here and I hope that you all can help me rekindle my love for ships.

Thanks
Donnie D.

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, October 19, 2006 12:49 PM

Yes they would be planked after the coamings were put in place.  There are some great books on just how the frames of a ship were constructed.  I could start to list them all but can talk to you about that when the time comes.  Most POB kits would not replicate those exact methods anyhow but it sure helps to know how it was really done.  Oh, Caldercraft kits are of excellent quality.  The instructions are inconsistent though from kit to kit.  Thats why it is so important to develop a library to fall back on.  That gets expensive and most public libraries dont have the books you would find most helpful.

 

Chuck

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, October 19, 2006 11:29 AM
Thanks Chuck,

I'm not sure if I am going to place the hatches before or after the planking. I shall use the planking sheet that came with the kit too since I am trying to avoid manual planking on my first build. I'll save that for the next one, which I am sure will be Caldercraft's Sherbourne. I really want to see what Caldercraft's kits are like since I love their Nelson's Navy range. Apart from itching to build their Victory (when I have a few others under my belt of course!), I want to build the Agamemnon as the Indefatigable, which I believe was the same class. I remember you saying Caldercraft were excellent kits, although I have read that their instructions are a little sparse. Mind you, I could say that for Model Shipways too, as far as a beginner is concerned anyway.

I am assuming that ship's would have been planked after the hatches were in place?

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, October 19, 2006 8:55 AM

Fip

 

Your making some great progress.  Wait till you plank the decks.  Thats when the model really starts looking good.  Glad to see your still posting also.  Looks like Donnie stopped posting.  I wonder how he is coming along.  Are you going to glue the gratings with coamings in place first before you plank?  If so, dont forget to paint the decks black underneath them.  It really helps the overall look.

 

Chuck

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 11:00 PM
I installed the caprails and planksheers, even though I couldn't replicate Chuck's fine scrolly bits. Just a little touch up work to do. I've nearly got the rudder pintles and gudgeons finished and last night I built half of the deck hatches from packets of grating strips.

Edit: Not sure what happened to the images. They look fine in preview mode.

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Thursday, October 12, 2006 8:51 AM
I'm sure all of you are parsecs ahead of me...but I am cranking away, yet!  Boy, that is one stunning ship.
http://www.ewaldbros.com
  • Member since
    November 2005
Back modelling again
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, October 12, 2006 1:25 AM
Another brief status report. I'm back modelling and installing my cap rails.

One thing I have noticed about my work is that I often end up touching up my work after I have glued pieces together, either filling and/or painting. Painting often involves a couple of colours too, usually a hull colour and black for the trim I have been working on.

I know I'm a newbie so I'm sure I will get more proficient over time, but any tips on avoiding this kind of extra work. It is very time consuming.

How is everyone else doing? I hope you haven't all quit?
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, October 5, 2006 5:39 PM
Well I'm in the new house but we are still unpacking and I haven't set up the craft room / workshop yet. Sultana made the voyage safely and awaits my attention. Hopefully I shall have her back in drydock within a couple of weeks.
How is everyone else doing?

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 7:52 AM
Great work Chuck, and many thanks for your internet practicum.

Scott

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, September 19, 2006 12:50 PM

Thanks Fippy,

The final chapters have been posted.  Let me know if you have any questions.  I will still frequent this forum and am not going anywhere.  I will post photos of my next project as it develops on www.modelshipworld.com.  I do enjoy lurking here and will post if I have something to contribute.  I am anxious to see how everyones Sultana turns out. 

 

Chuck

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 18, 2006 1:07 PM
Chuck, as always I am speechless at the quality of your model. I can see why you have received a commission(s) - easily museum quality. A wonderful job sir. I can't wait to see your progress on the Mayflower and I hope I get to work in a group build with you again in the future and even better, to get to use another of your practicums. Your Sultana one is extremely helpful.

Seamac, Congratulations on the new job and I'm glad that you are going to be continuing your Sultana build. I can't wait to see your progress.

I'm still in the moving process so I shan't be continuing for a while yet. My dear Sultana is ina  box, lovingly packed in bubble wrap. I'm glad that I'm moving before the more fiddly (and breakable) pieces go on.

Is everyone in this group also a part of ModelShipWorld? It seems a convenient place to keep in touch with everyone once we all complete our Sultana's and move on. Not that the group is breaking up now of course, just that Chuck's completion made me look to the future. :)

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 17, 2006 11:13 AM

No I wont be writing a practicum for the Mayflower.  It will be plank on solid hull.   I will however keep everyone posted with progress photos. 

I happen to be lucky in that I have a first edition of "The New Mayflower - Her Design andConstruction".  It is signed by the author William Baker.  The information it contains along with his second book on the subject is facinating.

 

Chuck 

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: CT
Posted by Seamac on Sunday, September 17, 2006 11:03 AM

Hi Chuck,

Congratulations on completing a fine model.  While I am s-l-o-w-l-y working on my first wood ship with the help of this group, I have built quite a few models in my model RRing days and I compliment your efforts.  It came out very well and has acted as an inspiration for the rest of us - I'm glad you were here and I look forward to the last installment of your practicum.

Are you considering doing the same thing (practicum) for the Mayflower?  As that model is being built from scratch, and I am assuming, will be a plank on frame, I for one would be very interested in following the build.  At the least, will you be posting pictures as you go?

As for Mr. Tilley, well sir, I blame you in part for my slow progress!  I enjoy your writing and have been back reading through the ship forum looking for your comments in particular.  Your knowledge of ships and modeling, along with the easy read of your comments, keep me searching for more.  Thank you for your insight and willingness to share.

As for my progress, when I last posted I said I was cutting out the templates for the hull.  Before I had a chance to get far on that project my new job interfered and I didn't get any further.  The learning process now lessening I have more time and am finishing up the cutting of those templates.  The workweek keeps me busy, only leaving the weekends for now, so I suspect I will be working on the hull by next weekend... we'll see.  How is everyone else coming along?

 

Seamac
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 17, 2006 9:42 AM

Thanks,

I was wondering about the flags.  I had to create them myself using a graphics program.   I did research it on the internet.  But silly me.   I ended up using the wrong one.  I am providing the flags in my practicum for anyone who wants to print them out to use.  It will be a simple fix.  I also printed a pennant but decided not to use it because I thought it would be too much.  

Thanks for the kind words.

Chuck

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, September 17, 2006 9:21 AM

What a beautiful model!  What's particularly impressive is that, without making any serious compromises with historical reality, it looks so much different than any of the others in the group build.  This is the sort of thing that a conscientious, skilled modeler can do with a basically sound kit.

I do feel obligated to mention one point.  (I do so with two thoughts in mind.  1- If I don't somebody else will; and 2- it's easy to fix.)

The diagonal red stripe in the British ensign represents the Saltire of St. Patrick.  It was added to the flag in 1801, when the Act of Union brought Ireland under the jurisdiction of the British Parliament. Prior to that time, the diagonal stripe in the flag was all white.  I don't recall the history of the Sultana's last years, but if I'm not mistaken she was gone well before 1801. 

I'm not sure about the flag on the jackstaff.  British practice in those days was far less formal than American practice is now.  (It appears that, on numerous occasions, British sailing warships didn't fly jacks at all.)  I'm accustomed to seeing a jack that's identical to the field of the ensign - i.e., red and white crosses on a blue background.  But the red cross on the white background may be right.

Tradition has it that the first jack of the American Continental Navy was a picture of a rattlesnake over the words "Don't Tread On Me."  It's occurred to me that, if the design of the such a flag were left to the modern U.S. Navy, it would read:  "No Step."

Bottom line:  it's an outstanding model.  Congratulations!

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

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