Model Shipways "Sultana" Group Build 2006

I hope it was as much fun for all of you as it was for me.  The final chapter of my practicum will be available very soon.  Any comments are welcome. Sorry for all of the pictures but I am celebrating.  I am already working on my next project.

Thanks for all of your endless support and encouragement.

Chuck

Thanks seamac,

 

It sounds really interesting but the two books I have written by Baker go into great detail about the construction methods during that time.  Its more than enough information than I need to create a great model.  It will be as historically accurate for the time period as I can make it even though no one really knows how the mayflower looked.  Rather than second guess the so-called experts I will attempt to give the model the "kitch" look everyone fondly expects of a mayflower model.  You are probably aware of the rediculouss debates surrounding models of the Mayflower.  Some feel she is not worth modelling because we dont know exactly how she looked.  I disagree, and the model will show how worthy a subject she is.  I'll thank you again for offerring.  I might ask you a few questions when I get into the thick of it. 

Hi Chuck,

I don't know how much you want to get into the history of the new Mayflower now at Plymouth but, if you are interested, a book exists (I have a copy) entitled "Give Me a Ship to Sail" by Alan Villiers.  Captain Villiers was selected to sail the newly built Mayflower from England to Massachusetts and he, in turn, selected the crew.  He writes about the building of the Mayflower and how it was altered from the original to meet the then current standards for shipbuilding.  Even at that he was a little skeptical that it wouldn't flounder!  The book covers, in much less detail, other sailing adventures of his at a time when the large, commercial sailing vessels were at the very end of their careers.

If you want I'll mail it to you for the cost of postage to and back.  Keep it as long as you need - now once read it will be a while before I'll have need of it again.  You can let me know here or contact me off line at: cmac@myeastern.com .

Congratulations on the new commission - the person receiving it will be getting a beautiful model.

Thanks Seamac,

 

Chapter Seven will finish it up.  Looking forward to my next project.  The Syren will have to wait also.  I just picked up a commission to build a model of the Mayflower.  It will also be a plank on solid hull.  Should be fun.  I have already started reading and researching.  Mostly the work of William Baker.  He designed the replica now in Plymouth. 

As much as I wanted to build the Brig Syren I cant pass up a paying gig.  I will keep all of you posted if there is any interest.

Chuck

Oh,  Fippy...I looked for those Sculpey Scrolls and must have thrown the extras away.  Good luck with your move. I bet you will be itchin to model over the next few weeks.  Sorry about that though, I should have looked for them first.

Hi Chuck,

Just downloaded chapter 6 of your Practicum - nice work on the masting.  Haven't yet had time to read it, just admiring the photos.  Feel like I could climb aboard and sail her off...

Looking forward to 7, thanks for sharing with us.

Chuck,
Thanks, I'd appreciate that! Depending on just how small they are I might have to cut my bulwarks lower to accomodate them. I only have about 3mm between the middeck and the little step up caprail astern. I'm afraid to lower the bulwarks any more since the space between my caprails and wale is already looking tight as I mentioned in an earlier post.

I can't wait to see the next installments of your practicum and see your Sultana in full rigged glory!

Fippy

 

Thanks, I made like 30 of them.  If I didnt throw them away ( I will check when I get home) I could mail them to you.  I believe you will need 12.  Six clockwise and six counterclockwise.  I will let you know.  I am in the home stretch.  My model could be finished in a week or so.  woo hoo!

 

Chuck

We're moving house at the end of the month, so our realtor told me to pack up my workspace so that our house is nice and neat and uncluttered to prospective buyers. Bah! So alas I am at anchor for a few weeks but I WILL be back and raring to install my freshly painted caprails.

BTW, my sculpey scrolly things came out far too large to look right, and try as I could I just couldn't make them small enough to look good. I've decided to skip the scrolls and try them on a future model. After all, if my ship came out as good as Chuck's on my first time, I wouldn't have any motivation to build another ship! :)

Hello again,

Sorry for the long absence, as I explained to Donnie early in the planning for this build I have started a new job which might require my time... and it has!  I have been watching the threads but have had no time to do any modeling (other than thinking about what I would like to be doing) but the models you guys are working on look great!  Hopefully in the next month or so I'll be back to building.

Keep up the good work

Dan,
I think you should be able to perform a museum quality build. Actually just last week I was in a model shop buying bits and I saw an incredible-quality Sultana model sitting there in the shop. Whilst Sultana is a small model as museum pieces go, it definitely looked museum quality. I only wish the builder had been there in the shop. Go for it, and if you do we'd love to see your build notes and photos here!

I intend to download your novel and read a few chapters about the Liberty. If it is promising then I shall buy the paperback, which I hope you make money from. I have no problem rewarding good writing.

As a segue to my own progress on Sultana... :)
I'm working on the cap rails and spiral fashion pieces, as well as the planksheers and quarter badges/windows. I realize that the mistakes I made on my stern are propogating along my hull. My wale is definitely too far "north" at the stern which is requiring me to shorted the quarter badges to fit them in. I'm basically chopping off the tails below the windows. I may also opt to remove the whole planksheer that runs at the same height as the chains, since I am worried about my wale and the two planksheers and the cap rails being far too close together at the stern. Maybe I should call my Sultana a sister-ship too. :)

It doesn't bug me too much that my hull is diverging from the Sultana. As my maiden build I need to make mistakes to learn from them on my next build. Once I get above deck level everything should re-align with the kit again.

More photos once my cap rails are on.

I want some help.  With the Sultana, yes, only not with the Sultana.  The issue: do you think the Sultana kit from Model Shipways that you are all working with can produce a museum ready model?  I expect at this point in your build you are very familiar with the kit.

 

I hope to build such a model, remodeling the Sultana kit as her contemporary vessel, the Liberty, the first warship of the American navy.  I’ll build my own hull from my estimate of her lines (underwater she derived from a St. Lawrence River galley built in the 1740s, while her upper works were designed to serve the social life of her builder, Col. Skenesborough).  I expect to build in plank on frame (maybe reshape the solid original hull?), but the plans, furnishings, and rigging supplies for Sultana might make a good start for my own model, I think.  Does the kit you’re working with, in terms of cordage, armament, and other equipment  scale well for the size of the model?

 

My model will not end in one of the world’s great museums, I expect, but it has a place.  The Skenesborough Museum (http://www.whitehallchamber.com/skenesborough_museum.htm) contains many memories of the early days at the head of Lake Champlain, but it has no detailed model of the most important ship in the history of the region, Benedict Arnold’s flagship Liberty, which began in 1775 as a small colonial schooner generally like Sultana.  I plan to donate my model to their collection after I finish her.

 

For more about the Liberty (aka Lady Katherine) and her story, you can look at  Dan Forth’s (that’s me) nautical novel Seizing the Forts on Lulu.com.  A download of the electronic (.pdf) version is free.  I am the author, and I know no better summary of this dimly known ship from 1775.

 

Thanks for the encouragement! I'm having a great time building Sultana and am not in a rush. Sometimes I can be a perfectionist which doesn't always do me any favours. :)

I wish more of the group joined in too. I learn a lot by hearing what other builders have to say and their photos.

Donnie, Fippy, and Chuck, you all have some really nice models coming along.  I wish I had the time to build with you all.

Regards,
Scott

Fippy, 

Dont be so critical.  I have seen worse paint jobs on the models of seasoned builders.  That is a very clean model you have there.  The fact that the staern isnt constructed perfectly is OK.  When the model is finished it will look great.  Infact,  I bet in a couple of years you will revisit the Sultana after you get a few more models under your belt.  I no longer have my first model, but I can tell you that yours is much better. 

Wheres Donnie?  I was hoping to see some pics of his progress also.  I guess the 2 of you are the only actual builders with the group. 

Chuck

Here's the results of my painting, and I definitely am not the neatest painter in the world :( I'm sure I will improve with practice.




And here's the stern. Boy did I fight over this one. It's not really like the plans: The transom is too vertical, the fashion pieces are too flat rather than quarter-circles.. but I guess each model is unique in its own way. I need to go over the window frames at some point too. I am probably expecting too much from my maiden build... Chuck and Donnie make it look too easy. :)



Next up are the cap rails.

Thanks Fippy,

 

You are not doing such a bad job yourself.  Its been quiet on this board for a while.  I wonder where everyone went.  If I remember correctly we started with about 10 or so participants.  I can tell you are hooked on it now.  Cant wait to see more pics of your build.

 

Chuck

Absolutely gorgeous, Chuck! There's not much else to say. You are indeed a master shipwright.

Hey folks,

 

I am finally starting to get back into the groove.

Chapter six was finally finished.  It should be available on MSW shortly. The owner is on vacation but will post it when he returns.  In the meanwhile I thought I would post a photo.  The anchor buoys are made from Sculpey.  I have one more rope coil to add to the other side of the shrouds.   I will start constructing the boom, gaffs and yards next and that should finish it up.  More or less.  I have yet to rig the back stays because they would make rigging the gaffs and yards more difficult.

Chuck

As I mentioned a while ago, for the stern windows, rather than use a thin sheet of transparency. I tried something else. It worked pretty well, giving a little glossy reflection under light. I am sure I'm not the first person to try this...

I used Elmers Craft Bond, an acid free glue pen that my wife uses for scrapbooking. Basically I fixed a sheet of black paper behind the window cut-outs. A couple of blobs from the glue pen fills each window nicely. Just spread it around gently with a toothpick. It sets glossy and transparent. Then just attach the white frame using tape, paint, a white paint stick, etc. My photos didn't really do it justice. I think Chuck had the same problem.

I'm just touching up the paintwork and then once I have attached the stern fashion pieces I'll post photos.

I just got off of vacation and I am resuming my build today. I hope that I can get some pictures up soon - maybe late this afternoon  Just slow progress.

Donnie

It's been quiet for a few days. I guess everyone is slaving away at their vessels. :)
A quick progress report from me: I finally got my stern reshaped and attached the assembled and painted transom.Tonight I plan to start painting the hull. The wales are already painted and ready to go on after that. I'll post photos when the painting is done.

How's everyone else doing?

Donnie - I most definitely did not croak when I saw your pictures.  Your model obviously is going to be a fine one.

You might want to do a little experimenting with different ways to represent fastenings.  My guess is that if you started using pencil dots now, the difference between them and the holes you drilled earlier probably wouldn't be significant.

Here's another, even easier - and, at least in the case of some ships, more realistic - trick for doing the job.  Get hold of a mechanical pencil with 0.5 mm lead.  Be sure to pick one with a metal tip.  (Some have plastic tips.)  Lay your deck planks, sand and scrape them smooth, and get them ready in all respects for their final finish.  Then figure out the locations for the fastenings and, with the pencil lead retracted, gently press the hollow tip of the pencil into the surface of the wood where each plug is supposed to be. The result will be a hollow circle.  Then treat the deck with whatever stain or other finish you want to use.  (I like Olympic Paints "Driftwood" color solvent-based stain, followed by a coat of very dillute white shellac.)  The stain will collect in the countersunk rings.  The observer's eye probably won't notice the "fastenings" at all initially, but on close examination the rings will look remarkably like the caulking around the face-grain plugs that covered the iron bolts on the real ship. 

I'm not at all sure that method would be appropriate for the Sultana.  I suspect she was held together with wood trunnels.

One other option - a more time-consuming one - would be to continue drilling holes for all the additional fastenings.  Then go to the grocery and get a big box of round toothpicks.  Sort through them; you'll find that some have much shaper points than others.  Collect the ones that are really sharp.  Dip the end of a toothpick in Elmer's glue, jam it into one of the holes, and snip it off with a pair of flush-cut wire cutters.  When the glue's dry, sand the deck smooth.  My guess is that, on a small ship like the Sultana, adding your own genuine trunnels that way wouldn't add more than an hour or two to the project.  (There are several more sophisticated ways to make trunnels; you can buy a steel drawplate, or there's a company that makes a gadget called a "Tree-Nailer" that chucks into a Dremel tool.  But the toothpick method works remarkably well.)

Good luck.  It's going to be a beautiful model.

Fip,

 

The wales look fine.  Dont try and judge from my photographs.  There are a lot of optical illusions.  As long as you take the measurements from the plans you will be accurate.  It looks really good.  You are doing a great job.

 

Chuck

I've been working away on bits and pieces like my rudder and finishing the transom. My hull is also ready to paint so I positioned the wale.
It looks very high up to me and I am worried that when the cables (?) and other planksheers are on it will be very cramped. The top of my wale is the same measurements below deck level as on the plans - I measured several times, but Chuck's wales look lower. I can't take mine any lower anyway or else I run into the curve of the stern. What does everyone think of my wale positions?





Thanks!

Mr. Tilley
thank you for your "timely" advice. I will look into this for the decking. I guess you probably croaked when you looked at my deck, but all in all, I like your advice. Now, I will say in honestly, I was wondering about the true spacing of all of the fastenings. Ignorance of decking is obvious here on my ship, but, I am happy to note that you chimed in so that I can investigate.
No, it doesn't take long at all to do this on the deck. Now, that I have thought about it right now, I am wondering if I should have taken a pencil and instead of making a hole, make a simulated plug using the pencil tip to make (not a hole)  but a "dot" to represent the plug. However, I have found with a little extra sanding, the holes are filling up leaving or revealing a mocked up "plug" !

I will say that my models so far, I guess I strive for balance. The balance that I strive for is this formula:

Accuracy & precision
_________________
 
Time devoted to the project          =        my own enjoyment (satisfaction)

I guess I look at things like this to keep myself from going "nuts" over a project becuase I am just as perfectionist as the next modeler. I have come to the conclusion that:
1) who all will be looking at my model.
2) will they know enough about the ship to make critical comments about it.
3) am I satisfied with the work enough to realize the mistakes and the "I should have done this to it syndrome" and still be overall pleased with the final result.
I have found that coupled with this and the all of the great people on this forum to help, then I am VERY pleased with it all.

Again, thanks Mr. Tilley for you most timely help and advice. I assure you that it is welcomed and I most all the time take advantage of your advice and put it into practice !!! Why, so that I will become a better modeler rasing the bar to make better ships.

Donnie
 

Maybe I shouldn't bring this up...but....

Deck planks aren't just fastened down at their ends.  They're fastened down to all the deck beams they cross.

I don't know whether the plans included in the current Sultana kit show all the deck beams, but it shouldn't be hard to figure out where most of them were located.  There probably (though not invariably) would be one beam at each end of every hatch and other major opening in the deck.  Once you've plotted out those beams, the intervening ones can be located pretty easily.  A beam spacing of four feet or thereabouts would be reasonable.

In those days long boards were much easier to come by than they are now.  Deck planks typically were as long as 24 feet - or even longer.  If I remember correctly, the layout of the Sultana's weather decks is such that each plank could span the entire length of its section of the deck.  So you don't need to worry about the disposition of butt joints, which is another subject.

In a small ship of the eighteenth century the deck planks might well have been held to the beams by treenails, or trunnels - wooden pegs pounded into pre-drilled holes, perhaps with wedges in slots in their tops to keep them tight.  When the shipwrights were done laying the deck the ends of the trunnels would be adzed or planed off, leaving a flush surface.  The deck planks of later and larger ships usually were held to the beams by iron spikes, driven into counterbored holes so their heads were below the surface of the planking.  After the spikes were in place, the counterbores would be filled by wood plugs held in place by oakum.  In high-quality work, the plugs were cut out of the face grain of a board of the same wood as the deck planks.  The only evidence of the fastening on the finished ship would be a hollow circle formed by the caulking around the plug.

As Donnie says, marking the fastenings on a model actually doesn't take long.  A good, simple trick is to lay a piece of thick tape (electrical tape, perhaps) across the deck at the location of each deck beam in turn, and use the tape as a guide for your drill (or pencil point, or whatever).  You can probably do all the deck fastenings on the Sultana in an hour or two - and you don't need to do all of them at one sitting.

This line of thinking, unfortunately, can open a can of worms.  If you're going to indicate the locations of the deck fastenings, how about those on the exterior of the hull?  There are a lot more of them, because each plank was fastened to each hull frame - and the frames were spaced much closer than the deck beams.

Well, actually, I don't have too much patience as it took me about 15 min or so to drill out the holes (steady hand I must say that I have vs. patience) I have already lightly sanded the deck which has subdued the holes on the deck planking so that it just doesn't blare out at you.

Donnie

thanks for the comments !

Nice Donnie! Wow you have a lot of patience drilling all those holes! I can't wait to see your hull when it is stained and painted, your planking looks great.

She is looking great Donnie.  I have stopped work for the time being.  I am headed down the shore with the family and they insist on having a model-free week with me.  I must comply but admit that I am experiencing some itchiness already.  I am however, bringing plenty of research for my next project.  I will also be "internet-free" and wont be able to keep tabs on the ongoing work.  I will have a lot of catching up to do when I return.

 

Chuck

Outstanding work, Donnie. It is fun to watch your vessel come together!

               greg