Moto GP / GP bike enthusiasts

Bushpig: Looks like a great little kit! The older versions are a great change sometimes and I'm amazed how high the quality is concidering todays standards from the T factory. I think you've done a great paint- and detailing job. The old 500 kit looks pretty cool with that muffler exiting just undernieth the seat...

Sano: Very welcome to the forums and the GB section. I'd recommend you to enter the GB wich is a giant gold mine to raise your modeling skills. No need to be afraid, the Tamiya models are great to work with and if ýou face any problems along the way we'll be much happy to guide you with tips and ideas to progress. I know all of the modelers here to be VERY humble persons and I promise you will get very constructive critisism and helpful tips.

I think SeaBee got all the basics in his answer, some more regarding modeling in general is found on www.scalewiki.com and some regarding bike modeling can be found on my own site www.onetwelvth.com , to mention some.

CF is the part of modeling where I find my own skills to be at the lowest, it is pretty hard and you'll just have to practice. I'll recommend that you do small shapes of masking tape as guidelines and cut out CF decal after those. Put them in place and use a hair dryer to heat them, they will conform and give you a snug fit. The tricky part is to get the patterns to line up ... practice practice practice... Cover the parts with clear and perhaps some smoke clear to flatten the appearance.

 Best regards and again welcome!
Joel - who has updated onetwelvth.com for the first time in 13 (!?) months...

Hello there!....I'm building my second bike, 04 Desmo, and I still have some paint and painting issues, I thought I might get some answers here.

I'm using mostly Tamiya Acrylics....should I be using Enamel?

I also use some Testors Enamel....and here is where things get weird.

I notice the Tamiya Acrylic when applied with a brush, goes on nice and smooth as long as I do one pass and let it dry before I do another pass...otherwise it gets "gummy" and starts to ball-up.

With the Testors Enamel, I find doing smaller parts or details is a lot easier but as soon as the brush has to cover more than its own width, the strokes are noticeable.

So, should I change my paints? should I thin them? Any suggestions?

 For my next model I'm getting an airbrush....finally, and I know things will be different but for now, I need to figure this out.

Using Tamiya cans has been amazing! I can't believe how good it turns out every time....so no issues there.

One last question on techniques....when painting bigger parts I noticed most builders use some sort of stick to hold the part they are painting....is the part glued to the stick? is it held by double sided tape? some kind of clay maybe?

Thanks in advance,

 

Racer155

Hi Racer155

Regarding enamel and acrylics it seems to be a matter of taste. It feels to me that enamels dries slightly slower wich is good when brush painting. Both acrylics and enamels are sensitive to heat from your fingers when handling the parts and they both dry A LOT slower than laquers.

I tend to use acrylics and enamels on engine parts and smaller details and laquer on cowling parts, but then again I'm using an air brush. When brush painting it all sums up to one thing, the correct ratio of paint and thinner. And there is no easy way other than to expriment with your own settings, temperature and humidity will affect the results. What you want is the paint to blend together after every brush stroke. Only thing I can say is that there is very few, if any, paints that you can brush paint directly from the jar without thinning them.

Try not to use the brush on already painted areas as you will get clogs of semi dry paint. If you don't get even coverage, wait until the paint dries and then go over it again. And remember it is REALLY hard to get a smooth surface with regular brushes, so don't get too hard on yourself if you don't accomplish that perfect job you are looking for. I promise that you'll be very satisfied using the air brush later on.

When it comes to handling the larger parts you are correct. Most people stick the parts to a stick or piece of plastic sprue using masking tape, blue tac or whatever is close to hand. Some parts have holes that you can put a tooth pick in. I myself have experimented with heating a plastic sprue and then carefully pushing it to the cowl, making a plastic bond. It works so so. Sometimes the join brakes and sometimes you get irregularities in the surface wich is'nt looking too good. But I'm getting there. Worst for me is when dropping a part in my spray booth when painting.... hate when that happens.

Best regards

Joel

Racer I think Joel has pretty much covered your questions. As I have said before you will not look back once you have upgraded to the airbrush. I use mine for virtually everything (eg if you look at the Yammie pics above I even airbrushed the carburettors - both the metal and yellow parts) The most I use a brush for is to do the rivet heads and screw heads when picking out detail. You will have to learn the art of creative masking techniques but that comes easy enough.

Below the complete Roberts Yammie. I would say I have really enjoyed putting this one together, the only frustration came right at the end when I glued the clear screen in place. As I was easing in the glue I got the shakes and a blob ended up on the left side, not the end of the world and I am sure I can polish it out easy enough.

 

So onto my next build. I think I am going to finish up the Mugello NSR 500 that gave me so much trouble earlier on, it is so close to finished that it seems a waste not to give it one last go.

A+ for the build bushpig and the same for pulling out the old nsr again!

/Joel

joelrydh and bushpig,

 

thanks for all your input, thanks for the time you put into replying to my post! It really helps!

I visit onetwelvth.com almost every day looking for info...great site joel! and I look closely to your builds bushpig, they are awesome....I see the difference it makes to use an airbrush!

I don't have a lot of experience but I'm detail focused so I take my time.....I can't wait to get that airbrush!

The 000 brush was a good thing I found out about by reading your reports...so I'm buying a couple of those as well. I made my own "detail" brush by cutting a regular brush down to about 2mm...it does great when I need to paint the brake rotor rivets, screws and bolts or to fill up a small area such as the chain tensioners.

 

Oh! since I'm here....how do you deal with decals that go over the front cowl and windscreen? I tried putting the 46 on the GOOOOO!!!! M1 over both and then cutting it with a blade but I ended  up with a visible gap.

Also, what do you use to seal the decal onto the windscreen, Tamiya clear, Future or do you just leave it like alone?

Anyway, thanks for sharing!

 

racer155

This is just the thig a gb is for, to learn and get inspired from each other.

With wind screen decals I separate them with a sharp blade and disregard the gap. I don't seal the decals at all...

Joel

So joelrydh,

 

you don't use any clear or future on your windscreens?

I think they look just fine without anything but I'm interested in the different aproaches...

racer155

racer155 wrote:

So joelrydh, you don't use any clear or future on your windscreens?

No I don't... I haven't found any good ways of masking off the clear part when using clear paints. If using Future there could be an idea to dip the whole screen in the stuff, I know car modelers that dip the entire window in future to make it look more glass like and remove scratches. As Future is self levelling it should be ok.

While talking of Future (not to mix with THE Future ;-) ), do you thin it in any way before spraying it through an airbrush?

/Joel

Joel - you don't... but not as in you don't thin it, you don't airbrush it! Learn from my mistakes... I've once tried it and it was a complete mess. Talked to somebody who uses it all the time on 1:20 F1's and he said in that scale it smooths out so nice, he allways brushes it on. I've tried it and it works fine - also on bike panels. Since we don't have the real thing in SA, though, I am not using it much any more. Back to "the dreaded" (by many) TS13 for me...

Question from my side. Just added my exhausts on the Kawasaki this morning. I was absolutely dumbfounded to see one pipe (central one on the left-hand set) not fitting properly where it "enters" the engine. Any of you ran into it - or heard of somebody running into it? It is the first time on any of these modern Tamiya bikes I've had a fit problem of any sort. And if I remember correctly, the front end of the pipes are molded and you only glue on the open ends' halves, so I could not have done it much differently. Maybe I stuffed up something else. 

SeaBee wrote:

Maybe I stuffed up something else.

Well, probably Unlikely to me that a Tamiya kit would have that of a fitting issue. I don't have the kit myself though so I can't really look at the instructions to maybe figure it out...

/J

Seabee I cant comment on the kawasaki but as you say it seems unlikely Tamiya would have such an error in this day of computerised tooling etc. The only thing it maybe is a defect part which warped whilst cooling, I am sure they must get this now and then. why not take it into a dealer and try to compare to a new one, I am sure they would relace it if you find it to be a problem. (Tamiya are fantastic with after sales service in my experience)

Racer on the screen question firstly I would not recommend ever trying to put any clear coat onto the screen (refer back to seabees woes earlier in this build). As for the stickers I tend to try and get some reference photos of the real bikes and then apply as close to reality as possible. Some are just stickers placed on the screen so you get away with just sticking it on without cutting. Others seem integrated with the clear screen so in that case you would have to cut. I dont really like cutting decals so in most cases I would just leave it in one piece, I find once it beds down after some microsol it looks fine. On a few builds I have actually sprayed clear onto the panels after applying decals and so this has entailed making a plan with regard to the screen (the Go!!!!!!!!!! bike is one I think).

In this case I leave the small decals which go onto the side of the screen off till afterwards (in Rossis case these are the little insurance disc and his comical picture) . I have carefully applied Tamiya masking tape onto the screen, keeping slightly away from the decal, you need to do a bit of cutting and fitting to get it right but avoid putting it on and trying to cut to shape with a knife, you will just lift the decal as you pull the trimmed bit off and probably damage the screen. Also make sure you mask off the rest of the screen on both sides. Spray as normal with clear and once dry carefully remove the mask and apply the little decals on the edge / side. Hope this makes sense, difficult to describe but I could try to do some pics to show what I mean if it doesnt.

thanks 4 all of the positive feedbacks seabee, joel, and all the guys here

now i'm currently working on doohan's nsr500'99 as my first motoGP kit. the bike number is 1, it's my 1st kit, and i hope the result to be the numero uno also (even though i screw it later, at least i started with a good philosophy ). (maybe) i'll put on some pics here later (if i didn't screw up too much )

about the decals on the screen: is it really okay to not seal decals? cuz some decals on one of my gundam start to fall apart (peel) after about 2 months. maybe it's because the direct hit of sunshine from my window, but i didn't risk it, i immediately buy TS-13 and clearcoat all of my gundams, ahahahah

btw: cool looking site joel! u just got urself one more loyal visitor! and i see u've also done doohan's nsr'99. any more tips for me? hehehe

Hey Sano. Just relax, build and enjoy! We all start somewhere and hopefully improve with every kit we tackle.

 I just found this browsing the net, has anyone used any of their product? The Rossi test decals really appeal to my desire to build out of the ordinary / test bikes / anything to do with Rossi. I hope this means Tamiya are not too far behind in getting ready to launch the 800cc bikes at last! I see he has a Stoner section but only one bike so far.

http://www.schumi-rossi-diecast.com/epages/61462714.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61462714

 

Ehrm... okay, maybe it sounded worse than it was! The one that was giving problems was not all that bad - it only needed a drop of glue to stay in place! Sorry if it sounded worse...

Hi Chaps. Well I managed to knuckle down and finish the NSR500 in the Renaisance Mugello livery. As you know I had encountered some problems along the way which eventually made me pack the whole thing away for a better day! Once I got going again I realised I was never going to get the 2 cowls to line up so I decided to go with an "in the garage" look by showing the lower cowl removed.

I made the lower cowl stand out of wire and some epoxy metal bond, added a bit of black tube and it all ends up looking OK. This way I got finished and manage to show off a bit of the engine detail in the process. In the final assembly I had major frustration with the two top exhausts, however eventually realised I was trying to put them in upside down  (in the build you remove the kit mounting brackets so I lost my frame of reference - note this anyone who decides to make this kit up and the South Africa test bike from the same supplier).

So in summary, as my first venture into resin transkits I learnt a lot, made a load of mistakes, but in the long run I think the bike is a nice additon to my collection. I certainly will approach the next one quite differently.

 

I think I will take a few days to decide what to build next, so many options so little time!

 

This is such a gorgeous bike and I'm very glad you came to finish the kit. Your work on it is magnificent, and the fitting issues is hard to come by. The under cowl stand is a nice feature and works fine together with the rest. As I've commented earlier the decal job is super and so is the exhaust staining. Maybe it looks as the upper mufflers are slightly too much out from the cowl but it is hard to judge from the pics. Great job Bushpig and I'm happy to hear that you will get back to the resin kits, there are a lot of nice bikes in that segment,

Joel

Bushpig, very very nice build! Personally never liked that particular scheme, but that's got nothing to do with the fact that you did well! And I'm glad you got back to it and showed the determination to get it done. And like Joel said, a very good bit of innovation with the bottom cowl stand.

Congrats on doing a great job from something you wanted to trash a while ago! Just having gotten back to it is a achievement in it's own right!

Bushpig, joel, seabee...

 thanks for the info on the windscreens, now that we talked about windscreens and future I think it makes sense to leave them alone, after all, the real ones are plastic, not glass.

Before I go on....the bikes you guys are posting are AMAZING!!!!!!!!! keep it up!

So, hopefully I'll have enough cash left from my next paycheck and I want that airbrush...I know I've asked before but I'll ask again: what airbrushes are you guys using?

I just went to Iwata's and Badger's websites and I have a headache. I noticed Badger has a model # and then they say "available in fine or medium".....aarrrggghhhhhh.....I think they are talking about the tips ....

So what should I get? all I build is 1 1/2 bikes and the rare airplane here and there..

I wanted the baddger 155-7 but now I read that bottom fed ABs and wonder if a bottle is too big for what I do....

The I looked at the Iwatas but their ABs below $200.00, according to their own charts, are only a "good" match for model, diorama or figurine building

I'm as always....overwhelmed!

I really don't want to spend more than $150.00 on the AB....what do you recommend and what do you use?

Thanks in advance!

 

PS: I can't wait to watch the race tomorrow....Go Spies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is a jungle...BUT here is my experiences

All I ever used are gravity fed airbrushes and I don't want to switch. I have one Rich .2 mm nozzle and one Iwata .4 mm. I feel the Rich one is better for almost all my 1/12 purposes and that the .4 mm Iwata is crap when detail painting, the strokes are just too wide.

The Iwata is easier to clean and spare parts are more avaliable.

If I were you I'd go and check out e-bay. Find a seller with 1000+ positive feedbacks and you can feel safe and probably get a better deal than buying from your LHS.

Joel

Racer. Spies did well for his first outing, definitly someone to watch. Poor old Toesland, dropping it on the first corner of your home GP is not good! stoner is looking ominous again!

Airbrushes, as Joel says this is a huge topic. I have used a Badger 200 for the last 20 years (the same one!) and never had a days trouble (it's a bit like the AK47 of the airbrush world!). It just takes a good clean after every use and after a few months a strip down and detailed clean up (very simple). I like the 200 because you set the paint flow with a screw at the back and so dont have to worry about controlling that parameter (as in a dual action). I have a medium tip and needle for general spraying just about everything I do. And then have a fine tip and needle for very detailed work (eg the heat staining on the exhausts). I would say though you could easily get away with the medium on 1/12 bikes and planes. Very important is your air supply, a compressor is best. I have had a quick look on the net and you can pick up a badger 200 with compressor set for $200

 Joel / Seabee thanks for the comments and encouragement. The exhausts are in place where they should be so there is not much I can do about them sticking out Joel, they look OK in real life so do not worry me. I have decided to go ahead with a Rossi 2006 M1 in the camel livery (with detail from the Studio 27 photo etch set), very early days so far so just a lot of prep work going on at the moment.

joel, bushpig....

again, thanks for the input....I've been reading a lot on line and it is a jungle out there! but I think I'm over thinking it. I just need to do it. I like the Badger 100G or 100LG....

Would you agree that a single action is a better choice for me....a first time airbrush buyer?

Speaking of the race....Rossi is my guy but this year I really want Toseland to do great. That guy has some serious talent and clearly the spirit of racing. Then we have Spies....I think he'll do good too but Suzuki needs to step it up a little.

How can I post some of my pics? what resolution?.....my camera has a setting (the lowest res.) that is called "e-mail" res or something like that.

I'd like to contribute to this amazing thread...it's given me so much, it's time to show you how much I've learnt.

Thanks.

Hey Bush, they'll set the violence police on you! Talking about an AK and a spies in one post - tsk-tsk... I must admit, I saw the guy's name and it just jumped out so much - there must be SA or Dutch parentage in there somewhere!

Racer - do not be overawed by the prospect of a double action. You can achieve so much more and getting used to an a/b - you may as well just jump to the double-action immediately. I had one of those basic Badgers bottom feeders (is it a 250?) to start of with and got a Badger 150 after I broke (own stupidity!) one sealing rubber the original. It's both bottom and gravity fed and doible-action. Thought the double action would be weird, but it is very natural. And you can accomplish so much more with it, since you can dictate the flow of the paint. Don't know if you guys would agree or disagree...(?) But as has been said, airbrushing is a vast topic. I use Badger because it's readily available here, but would have liked to have tried out the Iwata's, having heard great things about them (esp as Joel said the cleaning, which is allways critical in any airbrush!)

Racer: It's your choice but I'd definately go for a double action. Not very hard to handle actually.

To the entire group I'm reaching out for side shot reference pics of the yzr, I'm at the stage of wiring the engine up and I have got too bad images to see where those wires are heading. So if you have anything to share you are much welcome to post them here or mail them to joel AT onetwelvth.com. Any pics from say 98 to 2001 are most appreciated.

/Joel

@joel: these pics come from -i forgot, 2004/2005? yellow yzr.. but who knows, it might help a bit 

While I'm at it, anyone got any tips regarding the making of wire clips? I've seen some amazing stuff in some builds but I'm not after anything too fancy, like p/e or so. Just to make bundles out of different sizes of fishing line. So far I've gone with masking tape and small pieces of rubber hose from the Tamiya kits. The latter is quite good but any other ideas are much welcome.

/Joel

Sano; They are from the 2006 Camel bike. Connector boxes are quite different from the earlier generation yzr but they do tell something about what goes where. Thanks.

Joel

Seabee, I thought about my references once I had posted but what the hell, let them come interogate me!

Racer I was also somewhat stumped when it came to posting pics. In a nutshell you need to open an online storage such as photobucket.com. You load your full resolution pics there, then copy the .IMG link and paste it into your post. Quite simple once you get the hang of it.

Airbrush, again interesting that you guys are all recommending dual action. I started with dual action and as I said moved to the single action ages ago. I found both just as easy so racer go with what feels comfortable to you.

Sano those are great pictures you have, especially as I have just started a 2006 M1, do you have any more? I already see a few mistakes in the Tamiya paint colour references vs what I can see in your pics. These would also be great for the Top studio set I have bought for the 2004 and 2005 versions which I will tackle one day.

Joel, if you mean the hose clamps as in the one on the pipe leading from the radiator in one of Sano's pics. I have played around with a method Andrew gave us earlier in this build. Thin silver wire, wrapped twice round the piece, twist to tie up, add a spot of superglue then trim off the ends. They come out quite nice though I have not yet mastered the whole process.

So you guys how about showing some of your progress, I feel a little alone in the building at the moment! 

Progress...? WHAT progress?! This is the most frustrating time I've had ever since I started building again. I go weeks on end doing absolutely bugger-all on any model. 3 on the workbench: this Kawasaki, 43rd Sam Hornish Panther racing indycar (70% done) and a MFH Aston DBR9. So the other being multimedia kits, this is allways the easiest one to resort to when picking up something. And yet still I am building in such spurts that I am sure this is the longest I've taken to build a bike yet - and that without doing any frills. I am in fact scared that the lack of "flow" in building will cause me stuff it up and/or get hurried as the end nears.

But in short - I am now working on the front-end - the handles, front forks, etc. And have been since the start of the month, at least!

Bushpig wrote:

Joel, if you mean the hose clamps as in the one on the pipe leading from the radiator in one of Sano's pics.

No, I mean simple plastic stripes that join wires and electronical lines together in bundles. Something that let you gather up wires from different boxes so they run together to whereever they are going.

/Joel