251 Halftracks GB 1 October '08 - 8 June '09

Hey all, in my eternal strive to be great! I found this Ruski website dedicated (As far as i could fathom) to the SdKfz 251. My Pc Kicked up an error saying the site may be a virus. I checked it out and it wasnt.

http://www.weltkrieg.ru/armoured/SdKfz251/

...Guy

Here are a few pics of what looks to be the /8 that came from an album that is up for sale on ebay.  Might help Hermes in his build. 

Don

dupes wrote:

The majority of those pics are from (or, at least the same ones as) the Squadron "In Action" book - can you get those over there? Too bad my Russian is a bit rusty (been a while) - there might be some good info in there. Heh.

I know there wasnt a 'Stars n Bars' flag but there was a Union Jack. We speak fairly similar languages so im sure youd get away with it being translated into English!!

Scroll too top of page, Big boy.

...Guy

Luftwoller wrote:

Hey all, in my eternal strive to be great! I found this Ruski website dedicated (As far as i could fathom) to the SdKfz 251. My Pc Kicked up an error saying the site may be a virus. I checked it out and it wasnt. http://www.weltkrieg.ru/armoured/SdKfz251/ ...Guy

Man that is one COOL site - makes me wish I had worked a little harder at Russian in college...

Luftwoller wrote:

dupes wrote: The majority of those pics are from (or, at least the same ones as) the Squadron "In Action" book - can you get those over there? Too bad my Russian is a bit rusty (been a while) - there might be some good info in there. Heh. I know there wasnt a 'Stars n Bars' flag but there was a Union Jack. We speak fairly similar languages so im sure youd get away with it being translated into English!! Scroll too top of page, Big boy. ...Guy

D'oh!!!  So that's what those little flags are for... 

Bish wrote:

dupes wouldn't it be possible to let some of those just coming to the build who don't feel able to sctratch build to build variants we already have listed but on a different model chassis. For example you have one /9 being built, but it was built on the Ausf C and D model, and the D had two types. We have all 3 of the /17 being built, so how about the others.

Hey Dupes,

I noticed as I was getting caught up on things that Bish had brought up the above.  Have you given any thought to his suggestion?  I only ask because I see that, as you said in a recent post, the build seems to be reaching a critical mass, but by building the same variant on different chassis, you'd open it up a bit and give some who want to participate a chance...  Personnally, I think it is a darn fine suggestion - of course, I don't know enough about the 251 family to know how many were built on different chassis (was there any variant built on all four chassis - even if only in 'test' form...  that would be... nifty...)  Uhh, there were four chassis, right... A - D???

Pordoi - very cool find! (What key words were you searching for that brought that up?) Only thing that makes me think it isn't an /8 is the machine gun still mounted on the front. I believe that they were removed from the ambulances.

Lufty - wait, you mean it translates to YOUR english (Bloody hookers got me right chuffed! Bob's your uncle!) or MY english (dude, where'd you get those awesome pants)?  

Boyd -  I've considered opening the build up a bit more, but keep coming back to my original goal - to see if we can crank out all 23+ of the "major" variants. If I start allowing A/B/C/D models of each variant, I know that we won't get any of the harder (i.e., modified) ones built. Shoot, I've already got ME doing some conversion work - didn't see that happening. Like I said earlier, I really didn't think that we'd fill up all of the currently available variants - period! Much less before we even got to kit assignments. Heh. Of course, in every GB, there's always someone who bites off a bit more than they can chew schedule-wise, and ends up bowing out, which would reopen a slot. I hope it doesn't happen (!), but if it does, we can get some of the latecomers in that way as well.

dupes wrote:

to see if we can crank out all 23+ of the "major" variants. If I start allowing A/B/C/D models of each variant, I know that we won't get any of the harder (i.e., modified) ones built. Shoot, I've already got ME doing some conversion work - didn't see that happening.

Ahh, good point - I guess I had not considered that part. 

Dupes,

I came across this reading a post today on the Missing Links Axis discussion group.  Someone directed the readers to the album up for sale on ebay and was interested in identifying a divisional symbol in one of the earlier pics, I think.  I looked through the photos and came across the 251 shots.  Like you say, having an operational MG isn't something that would convince the enemy of benign intent on the battlefield .  But it's been clearly modified to carry stretchers. 

 Don

dupes Thats a fair enough point on the variants. It would be nicer if we could get all 23 variants built rather than a few variants in different models.

pordoi referance those pics of a/8, i am not sure if it carried stretchers on either side. My guess is is thats it just a /1 converted to carry stretchers. The cross on the side doesn't stand out very well for a red cross. It look more like a normal black one, which would mean no rules of war has been broken. And beshides, the Russans probably took no notice of suthc niceties, so the Germans would have just converted standard vehicles armed and without markings that stood out a mile.

Luftwoller Can i assume you have never heard a yank strangle the mother tongue.

Bish wrote:

pordoi referance those pics of a/8, i am not sure if it carried stretchers on either side. My guess is is thats it just a /1 converted to carry stretchers.

Bish, so here's where I get confused.  What's the difference?  Aren't all /8s really just converted /1s?  Whether its field converted or factory converted.  Or are the different variants always defined by factory specifications?  Certainly, the interior layout of the stretchers on the right side and a bench seat on the left in this 251 is consistent with the description of the /8 here;

http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/pit/3515/251/251-8.htm

Bish wrote:

And besides, the Russians probably took no notice of such niceties, ...

...which could be a good reason not to remove the MG.  As an aside, it looks to me like these photos were taken during a training exercise, or possibly as propaganda to show the home front how efficient the troops were at treating and removing their wounded from the battlefield.

After thinking about it, i am probably wrong about haveing stretcher on both sides. Most armoured ambulances tend to have it on one side that way they can accomodate walking wounded, as in the pics. As for any difference between factory built and field conversasions, i guess it just depends on whats avilable. I should imagine the factory ones would have a better finish and would look the same depending on what the requiered specs were at the time. The field mods could look as different as the number of vehicles converted. Just depends on who did it and what they had to hand.

If you look at the pic showing the empty stretcher position, you can see the seat backs. At a guess, i would imagine thats these would not be fitted in a factory built version as they serve no purpose.

It would be nice to have a look at the inside of a deffinate factory built vehicle to compare it.

As an additional aside, the Germans, from what i remeber reading, were good at looking after their wounded. If i remeber right, the survival rate of wounded Germans was second only to American wounded.

Oh yes, Bish. And strangle it like a goodun. Dupes seems to speak some strange 'Back woods Local lingo'.

I say Dupes old bean, my Lycra wearing buddy. Do they eat the 1st born where your from.  Old man, what what!!

...Guy

The factory C/8 model has a single long bench seat on each side that folds up to accomodate the stretcher cases - you'll notice the folded seat behind the stretchers in most photos. The reason you usually only see one side with stretchers is because there's no walking room in the middle if both seats are folded and four stretchers are loaded, and also because each vehicle was equipped with only two stretchers. These photos show how it would look with no modification:

The rail-like structure that supports the legs of the lower stretcher folds in half to stow under the seat. You can see the folding joint in this photo:

There's also a fold-up 1-man seat at the end of each bench so the medics have somewhere to sit even if they do carry four stretchers.

On the field-converted models, a fixed wooden bench on the left and stretcher cases on the right seems to have been the popular configuration, and the factory models with folding seats were probably used the same way because it was what everyone was used to.

You'll see how it all works when I build my model. I've been toying with the idea of casting all the parts since I've successfully made my own resin parts before, but this would be a much more difficult project that any casting I've previously attempted...and of course as soon as I finish making a conversion, Dragon will come out with a superiour plastic kit

Hermes You can deffinatly see the difference between the factory built /8 in your pics and what is clearly a field mod /8 in pordoi's pics.

And even if Dragon come out with a kit of kit, you have the satisfaction of nowing you got there first. I must try my hand at scratchbuilding, i keep putting it off cause i don't think i am good enough. But i won't know till i try. Will look forward to seeing yours and picking up some tips.

Picked up the Squadron 251 book today for $9.00. Found out that they only ever made 1 251/17 command variant ever. Kinda' cool bit of info.

Josh

Not much time left until you all can go nuts buying up all of your supplies for the GB - I know I personally pre-bought a few things, knowing that I'll use it all up in the future anyway.

Snagged a mortar crew and ammo boxes (thanks Hermes for the links) should I be assigned the /2, and also picked up the cable spools and hooks for converting a /1 to a /11 from the DML Kettenkrad-with-spools set ("collector's item" my ***!) should that be what I end up building (thanks again Hermes!).

Anyone find any additional juicy pics or research?

Marc, i think theys the perks of running the GB LOL.

...Guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cWUMcaoPsQ

something to get you ready. (view all parts)

Hermesminiatures  I have a couple of questions for you.  First one is that you stated that the /2 sometimes had rockets on it as well (stuka).  Would you happen to have any pics or could direct me to were I may find them.  Also about the /2 do you have any pictures of this version.  I know I might not get assigned this but I am interested in it and might build one for myself.   Another attempt at scratch building.

Thanks in advance

Kim

ps1scw wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cWUMcaoPsQ   something to get you ready. (view all parts)

Awww thanks a million NOT!! Ive just sat down through 2 1/2 hrs of those tutorials. I had so much to do today as well LOL. I think ive even picked up some Japanese as well.

Only jesting. Those guys have some skillz for sure.

Does anyone have any close up pics of the radios in the 251/3? Im getting twitchy as i feel some detailing coming on.

...Guy

Two and a half hours, eh? Was it worth it? I need to go hijack some broadband down at the old coffee shop to check it out...maybe later this week.

Lufty - let me see what I have for radio pics of either the /3 or /6.

Wow, time sure does fly...assignments coming on Friday!

Well? Fridays has arrived and its 10.02am here. Wheres my assignment big boy? LOL

...Guy

Hah! I was actually on here last night to issue the assignments, but I figured if I did that, some joker would wait until the very last second to squeeze in.

So here we are now! 1st of August already, if you can believe that! Which leaves us 2 months to secure as much plastic-and-PE goodness prior to the start of the build.

Without further ado, here is the official roster for October 1st:

Espins1                  Sd.Kfz. 251/1: Basic SPW fitted with the FuSpG ‘F’ R/T unit.

SMJModeler         Sd.Kfz. 251/1: Stuka Zu Fuss

Panzer88                Sd.Kfz. 251/1: Falke IR vehicle

Dupes                    Sd.Kfz. 251/2: 8cm GrW34 Mortar carrier

MPKev31b            Sd.Kfz. 251/3: Communications vehicle

BBrowniii               Sd.Kfz. 251/4: Light artillery tractor

White_R34            Sd.Kfz. 251/5: Engineer vehicle for special assault engineers

Luftwoller              Sd.Kfz. 251/6: Command Vehicle

Assurgeant           Sd.Kfz. 251/7: Engineer vehicle basic

Hermes                   Sd.Kfz. 251/8: Field Ambulance

JMart                      Sd.Kfz. 251/9: 7.5cm KwK37 L/24 Support vehicle

Sfcmac                   Sd.Kfz. 251/10: 3.7cm PaK36 light anti-tank gun vehicle

Wing_Nut             Sd.Kfz. 251/17: 2cm Flak38 AA vehicle

Bish                        Sd.Kfz. 251/17: 2cm KwK38 Schwebelafette

FastasEF                Sd.Kfz. 251/17: Command vehicle

Pordoi                    Sd.Kfz. 251/18: Artillery observation and command vehicle

Bufflehead             Sd.Kfz. 251/20: 60cm IR “Uhu” searchlight vehicle (Ausf. D only)

Russamys              Sd.Kfz. 251/21: Triple 2cm MG151 and 151/20 AA vehicle

Panzerguy             Sd.Kfz. 251/22: 7.5cm Pak40 anti-tank vehicle

Moose421             Sd.Kfz. 251/23: Reconnaissance 2cm KwK38 turret

Which leaves us with the following variants, should anyone decide to get in late, or want to do a second build (personally, I'm leaning toward doing an /11 or /19 if no one else is interested): 

x                              Sd.Kfz. 251/11: Telephone communications vehicle

x                              Sd.Kfz. 251/12: Artillery surveying vehicle

x                              Sd.Kfz. 251/13: Artillery surveying vehicle (Sound recording)

x                              Sd.Kfz. 251/14: Artillery surveying vehicle (Sound ranging)

x                              Sd.Kfz. 251/15: Artillery surveying vehicle (Flash spotting)

x                              Sd.Kfz. 251/19: Mobile telephone exchange vehicle

I'll post all of this up on the front page here in a bit, as well as more info here, no doubt, that I'll remember after drinking some more coffee. Heh.