251 Halftracks GB 1 October '08 - 8 June '09

dupes wrote:

Which leaves us with the following variants..... x                              Sd.Kfz. 251/12: Artillery surveying vehicle x                              Sd.Kfz. 251/13: Artillery surveying vehicle (Sound recording) x                              Sd.Kfz. 251/14: Artillery surveying vehicle (Sound ranging) x                              Sd.Kfz. 251/15: Artillery surveying vehicle (Flash spotting)

Dupes,

I tracked down a copy of Panzer Tracts 11-1; Panzerbeobachtungswagon Sd.Kfz.253 to Pz.Beob.Wg.Panther, by Jentz and Doyle.  Regarding the variants above, it states that plans were made to mount the sound and flash spotting gear on a 251 chassis, but the authors conclude that no proof exists that any of these four types entered production.  That's not to say that some weren't modified, but these variants seem to be paper 251s.

It was also disappointing that Panzer Tracts had no information on the 251/18, other than it was made in 4 variations that differed in the radio sets.  Didn't even mention the map table.  So I guess that I have some freedom to build the interior.

But now I'm in the same boat as Luftwoller; looking for pictures of Fu5 and Fu8 radios.  Anybody comes across photos of these units, please post.  thanks.

Don

Huh. Very interesting about the 12-15. I wonder if there's any more info available about these variants around? If there was, I would have thought that Panzer Tracts would have had it.

Speaking of which, how do you like the Panzer Tracts? I know Russamys was also tracking down some copies - are they worth it? Lots of good stuff?

As for your /18, I'm sure you can come up with something convincing enough using the existing pics of the other "command-style" variants. Besides, if there's really no good refs available, you can't be wrong!

Shoot, I had hoped to get that front page done today - it'll have to wait until Monday unless I can find some wireless internet to mooch off of, as I'm heading to the MS150 ride in about an hour. 150+miles of cycling to benefit the National MS Society...at least it'll be 150 as long as the weather holds up. Not looking great so far.

If any of you have an extra 5 or 10 bucks hanging around, and want to make a donation on my behalf (or just find out more about the ride), go here:

http://main.nationalmssociety.org/goto/marc.dupuy

I promise I'll be thinking about 251's the whole time!

Any questions about kit availability and whatnot with the final assignments out, post them here, I'll try to get on over the weekend.

Hi Dupes,

Thanks for the selection, now looking forward towards the start of the build date.

Dupes,

Have a great time on the MS150.  That was the first organized tour I ever did - what a great time.  I have very fond memories of that ride - although I recall not being in the proper shape for it and day two really took it out of me (I think I was about 15 or 16 when I did it...)

What is up with the weather in Maine?  Down in southern New England it is looking to be a beautiful weekend...  Good luck to you.  I'll see if I can't hook you up with a couple of bucks!

dupes wrote:

I'll post all of this up on the front page here in a bit, as well as more info here, no doubt, that I'll remember after drinking some more coffee. Heh.

Mmmm, coffee...  Sadly I am having one of those days where it is already 10:30 and I have not even finished my FIRST cup of coffee...  OH THE HUMANITY!!!    

pordoi wrote:

dupes wrote: Which leaves us with the following variants..... x                              Sd.Kfz. 251/12: Artillery surveying vehicle x                              Sd.Kfz. 251/13: Artillery surveying vehicle (Sound recording) x                              Sd.Kfz. 251/14: Artillery surveying vehicle (Sound ranging) x                              Sd.Kfz. 251/15: Artillery surveying vehicle (Flash spotting)   Dupes, I tracked down a copy of Panzer Tracts 11-1; Panzerbeobachtungswagon Sd.Kfz.253 to Pz.Beob.Wg.Panther, by Jentz and Doyle.  Regarding the variants above, it states that plans were made to mount the sound and flash spotting gear on a 251 chassis, but the authors conclude that no proof exists that any of these four types entered production.  That's not to say that some weren't modified, but these variants seem to be paper 251s. It was also disappointing that Panzer Tracts had no information on the 251/18, other than it was made in 4 variations that differed in the radio sets.  Didn't even mention the map table.  So I guess that I have some freedom to build the interior. But now I'm in the same boat as Luftwoller; looking for pictures of Fu5 and Fu8 radios.  Anybody comes across photos of these units, please post.  thanks. Don

The /12 definitely existed.  There is a photo of a 251/13, although it may be a field modification. As far as the other two, they were probably not factory produced if there are no pictures...

I know im i bit thick en all but i was convinced today was the start date. I even put the kit box and AM stuff on the bench ready to start tomorrow morning DOH!!!. Ill have to start another wingy thing. or maybe an armor thing? To get me in the mood.....or maybe both LOL.

...Guy

pordoi wrote:

dupes wrote: Which leaves us with the following variants..... x                              Sd.Kfz. 251/12: Artillery surveying vehicle x                              Sd.Kfz. 251/13: Artillery surveying vehicle (Sound recording) x                              Sd.Kfz. 251/14: Artillery surveying vehicle (Sound ranging) x                              Sd.Kfz. 251/15: Artillery surveying vehicle (Flash spotting)   Dupes, I tracked down a copy of Panzer Tracts 11-1; Panzerbeobachtungswagon Sd.Kfz.253 to Pz.Beob.Wg.Panther, by Jentz and Doyle.  Regarding the variants above, it states that plans were made to mount the sound and flash spotting gear on a 251 chassis, but the authors conclude that no proof exists that any of these four types entered production.  That's not to say that some weren't modified, but these variants seem to be paper 251s. It was also disappointing that Panzer Tracts had no information on the 251/18, other than it was made in 4 variations that differed in the radio sets.  Didn't even mention the map table.  So I guess that I have some freedom to build the interior. But now I'm in the same boat as Luftwoller; looking for pictures of Fu5 and Fu8 radios.  Anybody comes across photos of these units, please post.  thanks. Don

Panzer Tracts 15-3 notes the same thing regarding the /12-15 variants.  They were all accepted as standard variants in 1943, but there was never any record of any of those variants actually going into production. 

As far as whether the Panzer Tracts series is worth the money, it depends what you are looking for.  There are line drawings of most variants (which are all 1/35 scale) and a moderate number of original pictures.  There are a lot of excerpts from unit logs and tactical manuals, along with TOEs for various company-size units.  In short, it provides a wealth of technical and tactical documentation regarding most of the various 251 variants - pretty much everything you ever wanted to know about their design and implementation, but if you are looking for lots of wartime photos of these vehicles, you will be disappointed.   

Personally, I am into the obscure documentation these booklets provide, so I very much enjoy them

russamys wrote:

[As far as whether the Panzer Tracts series is worth the money, it depends what you are looking for.  There are line drawings of most variants (which are all 1/35 scale) and a moderate number of original pictures.  There are a lot of excerpts from unit logs and tactical manuals, along with TOEs for various company-size units.  In short, it provides a wealth of technical and tactical documentation regarding most of the various 251 variants - pretty much everything you ever wanted to know about their design and implementation, but if you are looking for lots of wartime photos of these vehicles, you will be disappointed.    Personally, I am into the obscure documentation these booklets provide, so I very much enjoy them

I would agree.  Not alot of photos but some pretty interesting and relevant information for the modeler.  Perhaps it's also that my issue covers some of the more esoteric vehicles.  For those who enjoy scratch building, there are some really neat opportunities in volume 11-1.  How about a mobile V-2 launcher, a variant of the 8 ton half track, with pics of the launching console inside, for those of you who want to do something a little different with your recently purchased DML6466 kit.  Panzer Tracts volumes are not inexpensive, but I think have value.  The real test is always to pick one up yourself and make your own decision.  So put me in Russamys camp...  

 Don

dupes wrote:

Hah! I was actually on here last night to issue the assignments, but I figured if I did that, some joker would wait until the very last second to squeeze in. So here we are now! 1st of August already, if you can believe that! Which leaves us 2 months to secure as much plastic-and-PE goodness prior to the start of the build. Without further ado, here is the official roster for October 1st:   Espins1                  Sd.Kfz. 251/1: Basic SPW fitted with the FuSpG ‘F’ R/T unit. SMJModeler         Sd.Kfz. 251/1: Stuka Zu Fuss Panzer88                Sd.Kfz. 251/1: Falke IR vehicle Dupes                    Sd.Kfz. 251/2: 8cm GrW34 Mortar carrier MPKev31b            Sd.Kfz. 251/3: Communications vehicle BBrowniii               Sd.Kfz. 251/4: Light artillery tractor White_R34            Sd.Kfz. 251/5: Engineer vehicle for special assault engineers Luftwoller              Sd.Kfz. 251/6: Command Vehicle Assurgeant           Sd.Kfz. 251/7: Engineer vehicle basic Hermes                   Sd.Kfz. 251/8: Field Ambulance JMart                      Sd.Kfz. 251/9: 7.5cm KwK37 L/24 Support vehicle Sfcmac                   Sd.Kfz. 251/10: 3.7cm PaK36 light anti-tank gun vehicle Lewbud                  Sd.Kfz. 251/16: Flamethrower vehicle Wing_Nut             Sd.Kfz. 251/17: 2cm Flak38 AA vehicle Bish                        Sd.Kfz. 251/17: 2cm KwK38 Schwebelafette FastasEF                Sd.Kfz. 251/17: Command vehicle Pordoi                    Sd.Kfz. 251/18: Artillery observation and command vehicle Bufflehead             Sd.Kfz. 251/20: 60cm IR “Uhu” searchlight vehicle (Ausf. D only) Russamys              Sd.Kfz. 251/21: Triple 2cm MG151 and 151/20 AA vehicle Panzerguy             Sd.Kfz. 251/22: 7.5cm Pak40 anti-tank vehicle Moose421             Sd.Kfz. 251/23: Reconnaissance 2cm KwK38 turret   Which leaves us with the following variants, should anyone decide to get in late, or want to do a second build (personally, I'm leaning toward doing an /11 or /19 if no one else is interested):  x                              Sd.Kfz. 251/11: Telephone communications vehicle x                              Sd.Kfz. 251/12: Artillery surveying vehicle x                              Sd.Kfz. 251/13: Artillery surveying vehicle (Sound recording) x                              Sd.Kfz. 251/14: Artillery surveying vehicle (Sound ranging) x                              Sd.Kfz. 251/15: Artillery surveying vehicle (Flash spotting) x                              Sd.Kfz. 251/19: Mobile telephone exchange vehicle   I'll post all of this up on the front page here in a bit, as well as more info here, no doubt, that I'll remember after drinking some more coffee. Heh.

When working on your /11 /19.  Don't forget the tactical symbol

Thanks dupes for the assignment.  I took a look at the kit and WOW.  Also looks like I will have a ton of spare parts as well.  Like the mounts for the /22 upper hull and much more.  I can't wait till this kicks off.  I also might think of doing the /11.   It seems like a simple enought conversion.  Just would have to build the racks inside, plus the wire mounts on the fenders.

Also, my wife and I decide to help out and donate.  Her father has MS and knows that everything helps out.

Have fun on the ride.  Makes me want to break my bike out and start pedaling again.  Though it's nothing like you do.

Kim

I do not have any 1251's in my pitifully small armor stash.  I need some opinions form the die hard armor guys.  So far all I have built is 1 Tamiya kit and 4 ½ Dragon kits.  The 251/17 Ausf. C is available from Dragon and AVF Club.  The AFV kit comes with the gun from the Tristar kit and the reviewer seemed to think this was a plus.  What should I expect building an AFV kit compared to a DML kit?  IS the Tri-Star gun really such a plus that I should go the route?

wing_nut wrote:

I do not have any 1251's in my pitifully small armor stash.  I need some opinions form the die hard armor guys.  So far all I have built is 1 Tamiya kit and 4 ½ Dragon kits.  The 251/17 Ausf. C is available from Dragon and AVF Club.  The AFV kit comes with the gun from the Tristar kit and the reviewer seemed to think this was a plus.  What should I expect building an AFV kit compared to a DML kit?  IS the Tri-Star gun really such a plus that I should go the route?

Hi wingnut! I would say no to that. Only because both kits are about equal. With the PE stuff the Dragon  gun may even just edge out the tristar as far as detail. Really to close to call. I'd go with who has the best deal there. The AFV kits are supposed to be a little more accurate in scale measurements but again it is really to small a diff for me to make that a consideration. That's my thoughts on it.

Marc, My very 1st build was a Dragon 251/1 and it was great. Loads of bits mind. I think with Dragons slide molding, there would be nothing in it between Dgn and AFV. I personally like Dgn and if it were me, id stick to what i know.

...Guy

   Pordoi,  not sure if this is exactly what your looking for but maby it can help

   Dupes thanks, looking foward to the start of this one cause it's my birthday

panzerguy wrote:

Pordoi,  not sure if this is exactly what your looking for but maby it can help

Hey Panzerguy, any and all photos are welcome.  Thanks.  Also, Happy Birthday!  (lacking all sense of tact, he asks)  How old?

 Don

pordoi wrote:

(lacking all sense of tact, he asks)  How old?  Don

    Old enough to know better but not to know everything

Old enough to know what's right, but young enough not to choose it

(the prize goes to the first person who can tell us what song that came from)

panzerguy wrote:

Old enough to know better but not to know everything

I know it well.  Those who know better, learn from.  Those who know everything, ignore.

 Don

Alright guys, I'm finally back! A bunch of work to do today, but hopefully I can assimilate all the recent info and get caught up.

Couple of things:

GA.modelmaker - I don't remember seeing you post anything here before. If I just missed it, I apologize. You should take a look at the first page of the GB, because it's going to work a bit differently than most. If you still want to get in with one of the remaining variants, let me know. Perhaps you're confusing this with the "Halftrack" GB?

Moose - thanks a ton for your donation. The event was a huge success (assuming we forget about being pretty much rained out on Sunday), our team is currently at $25k+ with donations still coming in. Stats are up on the mycyclinglog website.

Boyd - (and anyone else who still wants to donate) it's not too late! Any amount will be gladly accepted by the MS Society. Where did you do your MS ride? In Maine? Or Connecticut?

Lufty - sorry buddy, still have 2 months to go. I'm sure you'll find something else to build (or several somethings!) in the interim.

Panzerguy - happy birthday!

Alright, the front page is updated to reflect Friday's assignments. I also threw up the "generic" version of the GB badge, anyone who is on the official roster can feel free to snag it until they finish their build and get the personalized version.

Hermes - been looking at the CH /2, which appears to be a C model. Do you have any knowledge that would indicate that there were other Ausf.'s of the /2? Like, a D for instance? Also very interested to see what sort of markings they provided you with that kit - I'm hoping that I can recreate them with all of the spare decals in the other DML 251's.

dupes, is it still too late to donate for your ride??  For some reason I thought the ride wasn't until today.  If so I'll get on that website and make my donation!  BTW how'd you do other than getting rained out yesterday?  (sorry if you already posted this info...I'm trying to catch up on a lot of posts)

Belated panzerguy!!    Did you get any model stuff for your b-day??