251 Halftracks GB 1 October '08 - 8 June '09

Wow Ernest...neat upgrade! Hope it gets here soon and doesn't slow you down too much.

SAR - if you and Assurgeant can come up with an agreement between yourselves as to who is doing which sub-variant of the /7 and let me know who's doing what that would be great! I don't remember...are you doing the DML or AFV Club kit? I'm not sure if the AFV builds into anything other than the "standard" version. 

bufflehead wrote:

Alas!  After getting those AFV Club tracks on I noticed this!!

Awww NUTS!!  I kept reminding myself and reminding myself to NOT attach the front running gear until AFTER I had test fitted the road wheels and tracks, but did I remember to do that?  NO!  I'll probably have the exact same problem that you did, bufflehead...

By the way, how do you like the AFV Club kit?

bufflehead wrote:

Nice lookin' upgrade set...  Very nice...  I wonder what else they have...  For some reason, I am craving an update for my /4...

bbrowniii wrote:

bufflehead wrote: Nice lookin' upgrade set...  Very nice...  I wonder what else they have...  For some reason, I am craving an update for my /4...

There is an Eduard PE set for the /4, with a seperate set for the gun. They have some nice stuff on that site, but didn't see anything else for 251's.

dupes  the AFV /7 is a standard Ausf C. I think its only the DML Ausf D 3 in 1 kit that gives you the options

Bish wrote:

bbrowniii wrote:  bufflehead wrote: Nice lookin' upgrade set...  Very nice...  I wonder what else they have...  For some reason, I am craving an update for my /4... There is an Eduard PE set for the /4, with a seperate set for the gun. They have some nice stuff on that site, but didn't see anything else for 251's.

Bish,

Do you happen to know the item number for that?  I just looked through the Eduard website and could not find anything specific to the /4 or the gun.

Thanks

bbrowniii wrote:

Bish wrote:  bbrowniii wrote:  bufflehead wrote: Nice lookin' upgrade set...  Very nice...  I wonder what else they have...  For some reason, I am craving an update for my /4... There is an Eduard PE set for the /4, with a seperate set for the gun. They have some nice stuff on that site, but didn't see anything else for 251's. Bish, Do you happen to know the item number for that?  I just looked through the Eduard website and could not find anything specific to the /4 or the gun. Thanks

For the vehicle its 35869 and the gun is 35870. I just ordered mine from Hannants but the vehicle is on limited availibility, which usually means it has been discontinued. But you are right, neither show up on the Eduard site.

EDIT: I just had another look at the Eduard site, putting in the codes doesn't work. But if you type in 251/4 and 18/40 that will. The vehicle set is cancelled so you can't get it from Eduard. But looking at the intructions online there doesn't seem to be anything specfic to the /4 for any Ausf C set might well do.

bufflehead wrote:

Thanks to Bish I was notified about the wrong tracks on my 251/20, but in doing so I had to reread that nice article in AFV Modeller on the "Uhu" kit.  The author related how the AFV kit does not include the searchlight generator so he decided to scratchbuild one as well as scratchbuilding additional items  When he was done he made himself resin copies and sent the originals to Blast Models so that they could create an upgrade kit. Hmmmmmm......... So I searched and sure enough that resin upgrade is now available!!  I couldn't help myself so I ordered the upgrade directly from Blast Models in France.  So this means assembly will halt until it arrives.  I don't want to assemble anything until I can figure out how the upgraded and additional parts will fit.  Here's the upgrade: Hopefully it arrives soon, but coming from France......

In that article, does he happen to say what ref he used about the generator. I have been looking at the 251 site that is linked here and a few other places and there is no mention of it. I even have a schiffer book on 251 that has a photo through the rear doors of a /20 and you can see the front seats and other small boxes at the front. Theres no sign of any generator never mind something as large as that one.

dupes  I'm calling my /17 finished. As i mentioned, i won't have pics up until next Wed. I'll do a final write up when i post them.

Now a couple of days doing other things and then onto my Kugelblitz on Monday.

Bish wrote:

bbrowniii wrote:  Bish wrote:  bbrowniii wrote:  bufflehead wrote: Nice lookin' upgrade set...  Very nice...  I wonder what else they have...  For some reason, I am craving an update for my /4... There is an Eduard PE set for the /4, with a seperate set for the gun. They have some nice stuff on that site, but didn't see anything else for 251's. Bish, Do you happen to know the item number for that?  I just looked through the Eduard website and could not find anything specific to the /4 or the gun. Thanks For the vehicle its 35869 and the gun is 35870. I just ordered mine from Hannants but the vehicle is on limited availibility, which usually means it has been discontinued. But you are right, neither show up on the Eduard site. EDIT: I just had another look at the Eduard site, putting in the codes doesn't work. But if you type in 251/4 and 18/40 that will. The vehicle set is cancelled so you can't get it from Eduard. But looking at the intructions online there doesn't seem to be anything specfic to the /4 for any Ausf C set might well do.

Bish,

Thanks for the good info.  I think I reached the same conclusion that you did - there are no sets with anything specific to the /4, so I may just go with a generic C set.

Bish wrote:

I ordered the /4 set anyway because it was on special offer at Hannants. To be honest i am not sure if the /4 vehicle, apart from the stronger towing cleat, was any different from a standard /1. I know it was supposed to carry some ammo for the gun, so would have thought it would have ammo racks. My /4 is in my room in camp, i can't remember if the kit has ammo racks in it.

Bish,

The AFV Club /4 kit that I am working on does have ammo bins that replace two of the seats.  From the research I have done, however, the /4 desination gets a little tricky.  Some of them were actually specially outfitted as an prime mover for the 105, with the added ammo storage.  On the other hand some /4 seem simply to have been /1s that were pressed into service hauling the guns with no real upgrades or modifications (beyond the pintel).  So, a TRUE /4 should have the ammo storage, but not ALL /4's were true /4's.  Got it?  Clear as mud, right?

bbrowniii wrote:

Bish wrote: I ordered the /4 set anyway because it was on special offer at Hannants. To be honest i am not sure if the /4 vehicle, apart from the stronger towing cleat, was any different from a standard /1. I know it was supposed to carry some ammo for the gun, so would have thought it would have ammo racks. My /4 is in my room in camp, i can't remember if the kit has ammo racks in it. Bish, The AFV Club /4 kit that I am working on does have ammo bins that replace two of the seats.  From the research I have done, however, the /4 desination gets a little tricky.  Some of them were actually specially outfitted as an prime mover for the 105, with the added ammo storage.  On the other hand some /4 seem simply to have been /1s that were pressed into service hauling the guns with no real upgrades or modifications (beyond the pintel).  So, a TRUE /4 should have the ammo storage, but not ALL /4's were true /4's.  Got it?  Clear as mud, right?

I know what you mean. Not sure if you have looked at this site, its one dupes posted at the start of the build. It mentiones a renumbering saying that originally /4's were just ammo carries and the toweing vehicles were originally /3. Then in 43 the /3 became a command version and /4's toweing /ammo vehicles.

Its odd that the Eduard set seems to have nothing for the ammo bins. The instructions on the site even show all the seats fitted. I am guessing they just took a standard Ausf C set and re-labeled it.

http://www.pietvanhees.nl/251/

Bish wrote:

bbrowniii wrote:  Bish wrote: I ordered the /4 set anyway because it was on special offer at Hannants. To be honest i am not sure if the /4 vehicle, apart from the stronger towing cleat, was any different from a standard /1. I know it was supposed to carry some ammo for the gun, so would have thought it would have ammo racks. My /4 is in my room in camp, i can't remember if the kit has ammo racks in it. Bish, The AFV Club /4 kit that I am working on does have ammo bins that replace two of the seats.  From the research I have done, however, the /4 desination gets a little tricky.  Some of them were actually specially outfitted as an prime mover for the 105, with the added ammo storage.  On the other hand some /4 seem simply to have been /1s that were pressed into service hauling the guns with no real upgrades or modifications (beyond the pintel).  So, a TRUE /4 should have the ammo storage, but not ALL /4's were true /4's.  Got it?  Clear as mud, right? I know what you mean. Not sure if you have looked at this site, its one dupes posted at the start of the build. It mentiones a renumbering saying that originally /4's were just ammo carries and the toweing vehicles were originally /3. Then in 43 the /3 became a command version and /4's toweing /ammo vehicles. Its odd that the Eduard set seems to have nothing for the ammo bins. The instructions on the site even show all the seats fitted. I am guessing they just took a standard Ausf C set and re-labeled it. http://www.pietvanhees.nl/251/

Bish,

Yeah, I did see that site.  I too, am a little surprised/bummed that there are no sets with nice ammo bins.  The AFV Club kit that I have is a straight up -/1C, but it comes with some resin ammo bins and a few other tid bits to make it a -/4C.  All in all a nice kit, but there are some spots that I'd love to dress up a bit...  Ah well, off the Evilbay and Squadron...

Guys: I just received my 251 in Action book from JMart...I read the intro and had a chance to thumb through it a bit, NICE stuff with a ton of pictures of the different variants, if you get the chance gbab yourself a copy!. 

dupes: I found two pic's I especially liked, I'll get the pages and/or post the photos here.  I'd like your ...you being the moderator and all!

bbrowniii wrote:

Bish wrote:  bbrowniii wrote:  Bish wrote: I ordered the /4 set anyway because it was on special offer at Hannants. To be honest i am not sure if the /4 vehicle, apart from the stronger towing cleat, was any different from a standard /1. I know it was supposed to carry some ammo for the gun, so would have thought it would have ammo racks. My /4 is in my room in camp, i can't remember if the kit has ammo racks in it. Bish, The AFV Club /4 kit that I am working on does have ammo bins that replace two of the seats.  From the research I have done, however, the /4 desination gets a little tricky.  Some of them were actually specially outfitted as an prime mover for the 105, with the added ammo storage.  On the other hand some /4 seem simply to have been /1s that were pressed into service hauling the guns with no real upgrades or modifications (beyond the pintel).  So, a TRUE /4 should have the ammo storage, but not ALL /4's were true /4's.  Got it?  Clear as mud, right? I know what you mean. Not sure if you have looked at this site, its one dupes posted at the start of the build. It mentiones a renumbering saying that originally /4's were just ammo carries and the toweing vehicles were originally /3. Then in 43 the /3 became a command version and /4's toweing /ammo vehicles. Its odd that the Eduard set seems to have nothing for the ammo bins. The instructions on the site even show all the seats fitted. I am guessing they just took a standard Ausf C set and re-labeled it. http://www.pietvanhees.nl/251/ Bish, Yeah, I did see that site.  I too, am a little surprised/bummed that there are no sets with nice ammo bins.  The AFV Club kit that I have is a straight up -/1C, but it comes with some resin ammo bins and a few other tid bits to make it a -/4C.  All in all a nice kit, but there are some spots that I'd love to dress up a bit...  Ah well, off the Evilbay and Squadron...

I am guessing we have the same kit, i think AFV only have the one, 35S28. Haven't looked at mine properly yet. Will be interested to see how yours goes together.

bufflehead i totally forgot i had a scanner. heres the pic i was on about, not sure if you have seen it, might come in useful.

Bish wrote:

I am guessing we have the same kit, i think AFV only have the one, 35S28. Haven't looked at mine properly yet. Will be interested to see how yours goes together.

I bet you are right.  Mine is the 'Only 3000 (or was it 5..?)' made, towing the 105.

So far it is going together well, but there have been some challenges, I'll admit that.

bbrowniii wrote:

bufflehead wrote: Alas!  After getting those AFV Club tracks on I noticed this!!   Awww NUTS!!  I kept reminding myself and reminding myself to NOT attach the front running gear until AFTER I had test fitted the road wheels and tracks, but did I remember to do that?  NO!  I'll probably have the exact same problem that you did, bufflehead... By the way, how do you like the AFV Club kit?

Hey Boyd, I thought attaching the roadwheel arms AFTER the front running gear was installed would be the ticket to perfect wheel alignment....maybe I should have tried it your way!

As for the AFV kit....overall I like the kit.  Its nicely detailed and fit so far has been pretty good.  In some ways it reminds me of an Italeri kit in that there's a lot of seams to remove and some flash in awkward areas.  There is one thing I found odd about this kit...the plastic.  It seems a little softer(?) than any other kit I've built.  Nothing bad, just takes a little more effort to remove sharf from sanding and scraping.   I'll reserve final judgement until assembly is complete! 

Bish wrote:

bufflehead wrote: Thanks to Bish I was notified about the wrong tracks on my 251/20, but in doing so I had to reread that nice article in AFV Modeller on the "Uhu" kit.  The author related how the AFV kit does not include the searchlight generator so he decided to scratchbuild one as well as scratchbuilding additional items  When he was done he made himself resin copies and sent the originals to Blast Models so that they could create an upgrade kit. Hmmmmmm......... So I searched and sure enough that resin upgrade is now available!!  I couldn't help myself so I ordered the upgrade directly from Blast Models in France.  So this means assembly will halt until it arrives.  I don't want to assemble anything until I can figure out how the upgraded and additional parts will fit.  Here's the upgrade: Hopefully it arrives soon, but coming from France...... In that article, does he happen to say what ref he used about the generator. I have been looking at the 251 site that is linked here and a few other places and there is no mention of it. I even have a schiffer book on 251 that has a photo through the rear doors of a /20 and you can see the front seats and other small boxes at the front. Theres no sign of any generator never mind something as large as that one.

Bish, it seems the model auther used the other Uhu article in the same magazine (he probably received a copy before publication).  In the same magazine there's an article by another author on the Uhu with several photos of one in Fallingbostel, which might be in England and taken after the war.  The photos definitely show a large generator in the area in front of the searchlight.   It refers to the generator as 8-kV but in the model article is says 8Kw. The author also recommends Panzer Tracts No. 15-3 m SPW (Sd.Kfz.251) Ausf. C & D by Tomas L. Jentz and Hilary Louis Doyle.  Also, the model author shows how he tried to use a resin 8 KW generator from DES Kit, but it was too big which prompted him to scratchbuild it instead.

Hope this helps!

Bish, actually that article in the mag has that photo plus this one that shows the top part of the 8Kw generator:

bufflehead You may have already seen this, but in case you haven't, or haven't seen it anywhere else, heres a link to the /20 review on PMM that i was just looking through. As well as mentioning the 8kw generator, it also mentions an exhaust outlet for it at the rear of the vehicle. Its missing from the kit but it says how to correct it. It also shows where the exhaust comes into the vehicle and a couple of bits missing off the searchlight.

http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/afvclub/afv35116.htm

bufflehead wrote:

By the way, how do you like the AFV Club kit?   Hey Boyd, I thought attaching the roadwheel arms AFTER the front running gear was installed would be the ticket to perfect wheel alignment....maybe I should have tried it your way! As for the AFV kit....overall I like the kit.  Its nicely detailed and fit so far has been pretty good.  In some ways it reminds me of an Italeri kit in that there's a lot of seams to remove and some flash in awkward areas.  There is one thing I found odd about this kit...the plastic.  It seems a little softer(?) than any other kit I've built.  Nothing bad, just takes a little more effort to remove sharf from sanding and scraping.   I'll reserve final judgement until assembly is complete!

Ernest,

Yeah, the roadwheel arms.  I thought of that too... after I had already attached one side.  So, even though I had the 'best' of intentions, I completely failed to follow through.  I guess I shall have to wait and see the consequences...

It is funny, the observations you have about the kit.  They are similar to mine, but I thought the plastic actually seems harder than other kits (DML for example).  I find it to be more prone to snapping and not as flexible.  Hmmmm, interesting.

Hey guys - sorry I've been absent, but I've been in the hospital all week with my mother who suffered a stroke on Tuesday morning. Going to be a reduction in my modeling (and forum) time for a while, not sure how long depending on what her recovery looks like.

Fear not, the GB isn't going anywhere, just wanted to give you guys a heads up explaining why I may not be able to get back to you as quickly as I'd like to.

Keep up the good work!

Dupes,

We'll be here when you get back.  Like Bish said take all the time you need, and treasure every moment you get to spend with your mom.  Here's hoping for a speedy and full recovery.