PAGE 5-FINISHED PICS! The "MIG-nificent" DML King Tiger!

Wow Doog, that looks sweat. Very realistic . I'm going to have to try out MIG products. I've always made mud with spuadron putty, but it is very tideous. I'm going to have to try your way. What colors would you reccomend getting to start out?

Erik

looks good, is the mud set worth it? I checked internet hobbies and it is 42 bucks.

It looks really cool though.

Mansteins revenge wrote:

the doog wrote: King Tiger # 300 was part of "Operation South Wind"--the attack on the Soviet bridgehead on the western flank of the Gran RIver in Hungary. Jochen Peiper's 1st SS PanzerKorps led the attack. Here it was photographed 45 miles from Budapest.This photo is from the excellent J. Fedorowicz book "SS Armor on the Eastern Front" by Velimir Vuksic. You can see that it still has the AA ring around the commander's cupola--surprising, as I would have thought it to have been a "final model" KT. You can also see the base coat where the missing links are on the turret.                I have that ref but have really never paid much notice to that pic---ya know, that looks like Peiper, himself!, in the turret...pics of him in '44 and '45 are extremely rare...cool...

OK, guys--here's a weathering update. I took my Tigger out to brap around in some mud and snow!

Here's the stuff I used to make a mud mixture. What I'm going to do is to go for a two-layer look to the mud--a lighter "dried" mud first, then a "wet" darker mud. First I used a combination of MIG Powders "Light Dust" and "Dried Mud", and mixed in about 30% powders, with 30% plaster (in the cup lower right), and 30% MIG Acrylic Resin. The other 10% was added real dirt and leaf litter for texture.

The Acrylic Resin is interesting stuff. It's white, thick, and "oozy", and looks like the glazing sugar icing that you would get in a package of Apple Turnovers or something. Alternately, it kinda looks like, well...."baby batter"! . When I mixed everything up, I added a little drop of water slightly thin it, and here's what it looked like....

Taking an mid-sized paint brush, I start slopping it on....Now, you mightnotice that I'm working on a hull that is already somewhat "dirty"--this was my layer of "painted dirt". I used acrylic craft paints to stipple on a coating of "paint-only" dirt, in a two-color random layer. I used like, a dark brown, and a lighter tan-colored brown, and just mixed them "on the brush", stabbing at, and stippling the bottom of the model to provide a chromatic base. In retrospect, I'm not even sure if this was necessary, but it's still a "remnant" of my "old" weathering method.

Here;s what it looks like after a bit of work...I have to say; this is some cool stuff! What's nice about it is that it dries fast! No having to wait overnight for the celuclay mix to dry!

I even put a little in the sprockets, where you'd expect it...

The tracks have been given a wash of 502 Abteilung #060 Light Rust Brown, and then an application of metallic grey over the tops, and also in the middle of the teeth where the wheels would be rolling. Then a final light drybrushing of pure silver.

One thing to know is that I have been experimenting with the MIG Thinner vs regular mineral spirits. If you use the MIG thinner, it seems to be of a linseed-oil quality, or perhaps some sort of enamel base? It takes a much longer time to dry. This could be very advantageous for applying certain techniques, perhaps like the oil dot method? Or for using filters? But I have found that for a quick, perfunctory wash, I prefer the standard mineral spiritssimply for the faster drying time.

The sprockets were goven the same treatment.

Now, to do the "wet" mud, I added i some MIG "Russian Earth" powders, which darkened the olor considerably, and then I also added some acrylic gloss from Model Master, to give it a "wet" look when it dries. 

Patiently, I start applying it in between the links...

...and then, in order to show the track faces and the highlights of metallic grey, I simply brushed my thumb across the faces, wiping away the mud mixture. Simple. Easy. Effective. I'm turning into Private Pyle!

Here it is mudded on th etop of the track...(I'll do the bottom after I get all the wheels on...)

I slap....sorry--"brap" some of it on the hull--note how it now sets itself off from the "dry" mud...

And finally, since my Tigger was brappin' in the snow, I'll add some Woodland Sceneics Snow, shaken from a cup, on the hull and tracks...

Now, I'm curious to see if that WS Snow will show up on the mud, or will it sink in, and need some other application? I also hit a small section of it with MIG Pigment Fixer, to see if that will affect it? If it does, I'll try using MIG Snow powder--I think I have an "Ashes White" in the stash here....right now I'm waiting on it drying, so I'll post an update tomorrow if I can!

To be continued....!

the doog wrote:

King Tiger # 300 was part of "Operation South Wind"--the attack on the Soviet bridgehead on the western flank of the Gran RIver in Hungary. Jochen Peiper's 1st SS PanzerKorps led the attack. Here it was photographed 45 miles from Budapest.This photo is from the excellent J. Fedorowicz book "SS Armor on the Eastern Front" by Velimir Vuksic. You can see that it still has the AA ring around the commander's cupola--surprising, as I would have thought it to have been a "final model" KT. You can also see the base coat where the missing links are on the turret.

the doog wrote:

WOW, great observation there, Bill! And an interesting discussion ensuing as well! Shall we just invite everyone from Armorama over? LOL!

I'm sure it would make for some interesting conversation!  (For the curous, Karl and I are talking about this thread: http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=129487&page=1 ). It was a fascinating exchange with a lot of things thrown around...and it obviously inspired you as well with this project so it's all good!

wbill76 wrote:

MR/Doog, look even closer. The Pz IV exposed primer on the front plate is due to the loss of the bolt-on applique plate that should be there but has been knocked off. Look around the tow pintles and you will see that there's an outline of Dunkelgelb there where the plate doesn't cover.

And an interesting discussion ensuing as well! Shall we just invite everyone from Armorama over? LOL!

Bill, (Citaldelgrad) thanks for your kind words! It sincerely gives me pleasure to "teach" and to inspire others with my work, so your words are much appreciated! I'm happy to have thus inspired your work!

Tony--the MIG stuff is great! I have noticed however, that if you use the MIG thinner to cut the oils, they take forever to drt. I'm curious as to what the composition of the thinner is? Linseed oil? Enamel thinner? I have noticed that if I use regular mineral spirits to thin them, they behave the same way as my usual oils.

Thanks again for that info, Boyd--I'll use that info in the future, I'm sure!

I have to go to Pennsylvania tomorrow to get some emergency dental work done (had a bonding blow out!) so I'll be back later tomotrrow, and I have a new update coming...see you guys then!

the doog wrote:

Thanks, Marc--I wasn't aware of the discussion, and wish I knew beforehand; like I said, it was just a reason to "excuse" the big zimm chip there which I wish now that I hadn't done. But at least if geeks like me think that the MG fire would look like that, so would a casual observer, so it'll get the point across, you know? (I hope!)

Doog,

Yeah, I think you are 'safe' there.  It definately gets the point across - 'tells the story' as it were.

wing_nut wrote:

Only one thing if I may point out.  The pattern of the machine gun fire wouldn't be in a line like that.  This is something discussed in aircraft forums on and off. Maybe because their battle damage is more often machine gun fire than the heavy stuff that knocks out tanks.  I like the look of the dmage, maybe a bit more of a pock mark around the hole,  but it should be more random.  if you look at a plane that is ripped up there isn't a line of holes like in the movies.

This is a really good point.  Trained machine gunners learn to fire their weapons in a burst, typically 5 - 7 rounds (to make sure you get a tracer in each burst).  The bullets, though fired virtually simultaneously will each follow its own trajectory due to the movement of the gun on its mount and the differences in the bullets themselves, and a whole bunch of other stuff.  The result is, at typical burst of MG fire is more of a circular pattern (the rounds form a 'cone of fire' as they pass through the air, and impact in a 'beaten zone'.  Both of these are roughly circular to oval 'groups' of bullets moving through the air to the target...

There can obviously be a lot of variation, depending on the size of the burst and the motion of the gun or gunner and/or the target, but still, you'll tend to see oblong patterns of impacts (more cigar shaped) rather than linear ones.

MR,

The red sprockets are more of a mystery but perhaps only partly so...the exposed faces are the inner faces where the tracks would normally run and could either a) be replacements that weren't painted or b) weren't accessible for painting on the vehicle once mounted and so were left in red primer.

The fact that the final drive housings are also in red oxide would lead me to believe these may be replacement parts and/or fire-damaged...there's some indications that whatever knocked off the front plate also did some additional damage along the way...this particular tank isn't in very good condition overall but it's still speculation as to the why...this kind of photo is what makes things "interesting" in general.

wbill76 wrote:

the doog wrote: Manny--thanks, too! If you look at the picture of the PzIV, that primer red extends all the way down to even the sprockets, so I would argue that that is a primer red coat, which has been partially revealed by sand wear against the paint, or simply sloppy base coat painting. Also, there absolutey no evidence of fire, or ash, or soot, or anything to indicate a fire, IMO. Take a look at it again--by the way, over on Armorama, there was a huge discussion going on about this; well worth the look! MR/Doog, look even closer. The Pz IV exposed primer on the front plate is due to the loss of the bolt-on applique plate that should be there but has been knocked off. Look around the tow pintles and you will see that there's an outline of Dunkelgelb there where the plate doesn't cover. This particular vehicle is a IV-G and you can see the intact applique plates on the front superstructure but the hull front plate is gone. There are even visible bolt holes where the applique bolts would attach that are now empty. The armor was added at the factory as part of the up-armoring process and the vehicle most likely given its dunkelgelb finish after the up-armored plate was added...no sense in painting the original plate in dunkelgelb, then attaching the applique plate, and then painting it again in dunkelgelb to match. When the applique plate was knocked off/removed, the primer was exposed.

Karl,

Although you have committed to an exclusive Mig elements on this build, it's your...determination that "craft paints" could be effectivley, and I don't mean passably, but EFFECTIVELY be used to achieve something like winter weathering that is what is different about you.

Particularly since I now have some scratch not available to me in my earlier modeling attempts, there is a tendency, at least in me, to run to a prepackaged solution for an effect, Rustall, etc, rather then experiment and craft something that works, maybe better.

To me, your first time using white craft paint to simulate winter white wash is as brave an event as the first human who ate a raw oyster, or an egg.  It's no so stunnning that white craft paint will work, it's that you had the guts to slap it on that first model.  It's nothing for me to copy you and pester you for "how to's". Its the innovations that you bring to the table, and your wilingness to allow us a good look at how you do it rather than hoarding it and hiding it with vague responses and using it to win trophies without passing on your hard earned knowledge.

This sounds like an award show or a eulogy, and I'm not a kiss-butt, but your assistance has really made my foray back into modeling something where I feel I have advanced far beyond what I could have achieved by simply trying things in the dark, it never would have occurred to me to even experiment with some of these items.

I'll stop now.  

Bill        

the doog wrote:

Manny--thanks, too! If you look at the picture of the PzIV, that primer red extends all the way down to even the sprockets, so I would argue that that is a primer red coat, which has been partially revealed by sand wear against the paint, or simply sloppy base coat painting. Also, there absolutey no evidence of fire, or ash, or soot, or anything to indicate a fire, IMO. Take a look at it again--by the way, over on Armorama, there was a huge discussion going on about this; well worth the look!

MR/Doog, look even closer. The Pz IV exposed primer on the front plate is due to the loss of the bolt-on applique plate that should be there but has been knocked off. Look around the tow pintles and you will see that there's an outline of Dunkelgelb there where the plate doesn't cover. This particular vehicle is a IV-G and you can see the intact applique plates on the front superstructure but the hull front plate is gone. There are even visible bolt holes where the applique bolts would attach that are now empty. The armor was added at the factory as part of the up-armoring process and the vehicle most likely given its dunkelgelb finish after the up-armored plate was added...no sense in painting the original plate in dunkelgelb, then attaching the applique plate, and then painting it again in dunkelgelb to match. When the applique plate was knocked off/removed, the primer was exposed.

Doog, I looked again and it COULD be primer, but to me it still looks more like heat-oxidation---who knows for sure? Point is, you found one, possibly two pics, that back up your assertion. Very cool pics indeed. It may even be possible that the front bolt-on armor and sprockets were replacements that were added to a repaired Mk IV and not properly painted w/ camo...it is obvious that the tank is knocked out...

Also, some good views of what the three primary late-war colors should look like---as I have always suspected (as do you), German dark yellow is more khaki in shade than most people model it.

As far as build issues with the KT, yes there were the same as you encountered and the remedy was to either eyeball some of the tool placements or do some rouch calculation for the spare track hangers--the Tamiya KT is a good ref for this since it already has the marks (as you pointed out)...all in all, however, it wan't too bad a build... 

Thanks, K-dawg and stick man! 

Thanks, too, Rob! I stil do 1/72, but I used to use the smaller kits as a diversion from the "full commitment" of a dedicated 1/35 build; recenetly, I had diverged inot some car models as a break from Armor, and so I'm just itching toget back to the "big" tanks. I started a 1/72 just before this build--an "ACE" Waffentrager--and the whole kit was such a piece of crap that I just trashed it--UGH! So there went my 1/72 itch for the month!I do have more 1/35th planned though, so it'll be a while before I get back to the little tanks!

wing_nut wrote:

Only one thing if I may point out.  The pattern of the machine gun fire wouldn't be in a line like that.

I have the name for your line of pre-mixed washes..."Doog Dew"   Just make sure it smells good  I'll try'em.  

I really like the way the weathering is builing up.  The color photos of the primer surely must have stopped any typing a comments in their tracks.

Only one thing if I may point out.  The pattern of the machine gun fire wouldn't be in a line like that.  This is something discussed in aircraft forums on and off. Maybe because their battle damage is more often machine gun fire than the heavy stuff that knocks out tanks.  I like the look of the dmage, maybe a bit more of a pock mark around the hole,  but it should be more random.  if you look at a plane that is ripped up there isn't a line of holes like in the movies.

This will look killer when it's done.

damn doog, that is lookin mighty awesome. really love what ya do with those kits, and so many.. so fast.

great is all i can say..

but something springs to mind, when i starter to post here,  you where an all 1/72 builder.. what happend?? got sucked up by all the greater detail of 1/35? 

cheers

WOW Great work Doog!!!!

Looking good Doog..

The unrestored Stug at Knox has red primer showing all over it where the zim has been knocked off... 

KC

smokinguns3 wrote:

Are these the powderd MIG pigments or are they some new kind?

Thanks, Bill, and  Huxy (you flatter me! )

Boyd, I will try to remember to paste a photo of the materials I'm using. When I'm "in my mode" weathering, I'm almost possessed, and I almost forget to even snap a picture of what I'm doing, so, I think that way at least you'll be able to see what I'm using! 

Mike, --"Verdooglin"--LOL! it sounds like something I've been doing to Jenn in the dark, but I can't get into that here... LOL!

The washes by MIG are in a bottle, and you should shake them up before using them. They have a label warning "When using this wash, your model MUST (MIG's emphasis) be painted with acrylic paints. We recommend Tamiya or Vallejo colored acrylics".

The instruct you to use the wash in the "holes and details", let sit for 15 minutes, and then to clean off the excess with a paint brush "humidified with MIG thinner". (gotta love the Spanish/English transliterations! ) I just used mine like an overall wash, as a deliberate partof the process I was going fo--I wanted to tint the finish darker, and then add some brighter whites to layer the color. But the wash really does lay down very similar to oils; it's also pretty consistent color, and easy to manipulate.I have et to try the actual "filters"--I probably should have used those first, come to think of it. Oh well; I'll get to trying some of them soon, I'm sure. Hope this help you out! 

I don't think your filters were a cover up of the hairspray tech. As the whitwash would fade these "filters would show. Nice.

I have used the MIG powders and live them. I have not used their washes and have stayed with oils. I am interested if you eloborate more on the washes. Your feelings pro and con compared to the oils.

The work no matter who's stuff you are using is your usual top shelf.

Hey.....if you open up your own Verdooglin, I'm willing to partner to keep you honest. I'll work on the decals and US offerings. This way it's not pronounced only in German!

Rounds Complete!!

Truly impressive, doog.  I was a little nervous when I first saw that red, but you toned it down nicely.  The stuff you did on the wheels is really great as well.

As a suggestion: maybe in the pics that you have specifically used the Mig stuff, you could include the 'stuff' you used in the pic, like you did with the folkart acrylics in the first pic.  I know you write what you used, but some of us are visual learners...

You are so good it's sick.. 

Looking VERY good.. Very, very good.. way better than what  could get off with anything...   You are so good I'm speechless...  

OK, guys-here we go with a weathering update.

As I stated before, I'm committed to using MIG Products exclusively for the weathering of this beast, where applicable. But for the first step, of bringing out some detail here on the whels, I've mixed up a blend of craft paints to drybrush the wheels--Folk Art Clay Beige, and Craft SmartMustard Yellow. I drybrushed this over the wheels, to bring out a little detail. 

I then applied some washes of MIG's "502 Abteilung" oils, of 093 Basic Earth, 080 Wash Brown, and 001 Snow White, and set them aside to dry.

I also used some thinned white craft paint with a dab of dishwashing liquid to thin it and help it flow over the sprayed-on Tamiya mixture that I used on the hull.

OK, now turning to the hull. I first washes the whole hull in MIG's "Neutral Wash". This actually is an enamel wash, and goes on somewhat dark, but it's a perfect, grimy gray-brown color for white finishes. It flows perfectly, and is easily thinned by either regular mineral spirits or MIG's own "Thinner for Washes". I then painted the hull chippped zimm sections in 502 oil color # 120 Primer Red. This is a somewhat brighter color than I'm used to, but pretty close to what I've seen in person in the unrestored Fort Knox StuG IIIG interior, of which I had the pleasure to crawl around inside.

I then took some of the 502 oils--the Wash Brown, Basic Earth, 010 Luftwaffe Yellow, 040 Faded Green, White, and 035 Buff, and started "Color Modulating". I admit; I stole some of this idea from Adam Wilder--if you haven't seen some of his finishes using this subtle technique, you're really missing out!

I applied small "spot filters" here and there, in different shades of white, tan, green, etc--just going for different shades of the basic colors, adding subtle layers on top of the basic base coat. The difficulty of this technique was magnified, I believe, by the desire to NOT cover up some of the effects of the "Hairspray" technique. OH well--this build is an experiment and a learning experience for me, so I fearlessly soldier on!

To tone down the bright red primer, I applied some powder--037 Gulf War Sand--to the still-wet oil, and then drybrushed--no; more "stippled" a always-varying combination of acrylic craft paint in tan/yellow/white, just going for various shades. I just kept monkeying with it, adding some, stepping back, looking at it again....

Here's where I am so far...long way to go yet...

I applied some of the Basic Earth oil to the rear to simulate mud on the hull.

And I wish I could change this--I chipped too much here. Before I decided to actually model #300, I chipped this big chip; I wish I could change it back. I'm thinking that I will whitewash it, over the bulletholes which I put un there to justify the chipping in this area. That way it will look like it was a pre-winter wound, and not be so glaring. Notice how the paint shows through where the track links were; I like this effect! 

An overall side view so far...

Well, I stil have a long way to go. A lot of detail painting, and I still haven't even started pin washes. The tracks and wheels will be a powdering challenge--lots of mud to be mixed up! 

By the way--anyone doubting the "accuracy" of the primer red showing through like that, check out these two color photos-one of a PZ IV in Italy, and the other a Panther recovered from the Demyansk pocket...posted here for reference only; thanks to Nico Frenzel for use of this photo.

So let's hear it with the critiques or questions!All opinions welcomed!

This thread is a gas! Huge info, lots of fun....doog, you gotta do the Monty Python captions for the rest of it, please!

BTW, I always knew you'd make the "show".....