PAGE 5-FINISHED PICS! The "MIG-nificent" DML King Tiger!

the doog wrote:

but my loyalty willalways be right here, to this great forum, and the friends I have here!

doog,

You say the nicest things... gonna make me just a little....

the doog wrote:

Thanks, Robert! Lucky, indeed! I'll havea review soon here for you! Thanks too, Scott--planning the painting of this taken as much thought as the build!  Blll, glad you're learning from this as well. I'm using the "Neutral Wash" over the white camo, and it's pretty convincingly grimy! Watch for the review soon! Rick, again; Thank You! I'm in the middle of using the products as I write this, and I have to say I am impressed! I'll be posting a review here really soon. I want to get a little bit of experience with them here before I post--and the idea of using them exclusively is a bit of a challenge, but I think it will be a great benefit to the former debate, to give a balanced review of them from someone who is normally a "heavy" weatherer!  Thanks too, for commenting, Marc, Bill, and David!  Steve--yeah, it's a bummer about the brackets--they apparently completely discounted the idea that someone might build the model without side skirts. In that case, it would be an impossible fix to make!   Mansteins revenge wrote: She's looking good!!! LOL...just ribbin' 'ya, but the MiG thing made me think of "selling out"...sorta like a rock band doing an American Express commercial... lol...tell me it 'aint so, doog! Manny, LOL! Don't worry, I won't be doing any credit card commercials any time soon, LOL!--but think of it this way. For MIG Productions, it was a smart business move. I'm a three-time published author, and a prominent poster here on the site. It was a smart move to send me some eamples to test and try--especislly when their products really are some darned good  products! Besides, I've already used MIG Powders to a great degree--one my Hetzer, my E-100, my other builds. So these are just another product which I might have purchased anyway in time.I see it as no differently than a guitar cable or string company giving me something to use for free--it's a benefit to both parties--unless the product is really lousy. But I have to say, the products in this case are really surprisingly good! I'll be posting a review and update soon! Thanks again, all, for posting!

In fact, I'm begining to wonder when the big announcement is gonna come that you don't start doing this full-time and start you own "Verlinden" or MiG" company. I have had the pleasure of seen you evolve in a very short time from a prolific poster to an on-line mentor, with all the creds to back you up (published, etc.) ..of course your biggest product would be your techniques and your ability (and willingness) to document and explain them.

In the '80's it was the "Verlinden Way'; maybe next it will be "Doog's Way"...I don't think it is too far-fetched an idea...I have bought modeling "how to" books from Kalmbach Publishing in the past that featured guys with a fraction of the talent you have demonstrated (no exagerration)...

 Thanks, Robert! Lucky, indeed! I'll havea review soon here for you!

Thanks too, Scott--planning the painting of this taken as much thought as the build! 

Blll, glad you're learning from this as well. I'm using the "Neutral Wash" over the white camo, and it's pretty convincingly grimy! Watch for the review soon!

Rick, again; Thank You! I'm in the middle of using the products as I write this, and I have to say I am impressed! I'll be posting a review here really soon. I want to get a little bit of experience with them here before I post--and the idea of using them exclusively is a bit of a challenge, but I think it will be a great benefit to the former debate, to give a balanced review of them from someone who is normally a "heavy" weatherer! 

Thanks too, for commenting, Marc, Bill, and David! 

Steve--yeah, it's a bummer about the brackets--they apparently completely discounted the idea that someone might build the model without side skirts. In that case, it would be an impossible fix to make! 

Mansteins revenge wrote:

She's looking good!!! LOL...just ribbin' 'ya, but the MiG thing made me think of "selling out"...sorta like a rock band doing an American Express commercial... lol...tell me it 'aint so, doog!

Besides, I've already used MIG Powders to a great degree--one my Hetzer, my E-100, my other builds. So these are just another product which I might have purchased anyway in time.I see it as no differently than a guitar cable or string company giving me something to use for free--it's a benefit to both parties--unless the product is really lousy. But I have to say, the products in this case are really surprisingly good!

I'll be posting a review and update soon! Thanks again, all, for posting! 

She's looking good!!!

LOL...just ribbin' 'ya, but the MiG thing made me think of "selling out"...sorta like a rock band doing an American Express commercial... lol...tell me it 'aint so, doog!

    Doog, it's always a pleasure to watch you work.

        Kind of irks me that Dragon would get the mounting brackets in the wrong place.     Especially with all the documentation on this vehicle.       

the doog wrote:

A WORD OF THANKS TO MIG PRODUCTIONS   A few weeks ago, we had a thread going here about MIG pre-mixed washes and weathering products . It got strong opinions on both sides, and I had asked Adam Wilder and Rick Lawler exactly what would make a modeler buy their pre-mixed products when most people would  mix their own.  To make a long story short, Adam Wilder contacted me a little later, and said that MIG Productions would like to send me some of their products to test out. So for the rest of this model's weatherin, I will be forgoing my "usual" routine of weathering products, and instead using the supplied MIG products exclusively. I am eager to see what results I can achieve here! A big "THANKS!!!" to Adam, RIck, and all at MIG Productions! Stay tuned for some more updates after I make a little progress here! Now the fun begins! Questions and comments welcomed!

Hey Karl,

I missed the build updates, sorry...but you seem to have matter well in hand.  I really like the reference vehicle that you've chosen to portray. 

On behalf of Mig, Adam, and MIG Productions I would like to say that you are very welcome, we hope that you enjoy the goodies.

".....using the supplied MIG products exclusively"

You're hard core, Doog, I don't even do that!  This will be fun, I'm looking forward to your updates.

Best,

Rick

http://ricklawler.blogspot.com/

Doog, you are really, REALLY good at this.  Not just the flawless and inventive builds, but you have a knack for teaching how you do what you do.  

I bought some Mig dark wash, and used it on the running gear of the E-100, but I found it to be VERY dark, and it seemed easier to use "your" Windsor and Newton washes on the top surfaces.  I will be watching this thread very carefully, as I have some Mig products that I would like to use.

Really a very nice build.  This coming from someone who is just starting to grasp how difficult it is to do what you make look so easy.  

Hi Guys,

Well, I'm at the painting stage. First, I painted the whole thing in a mix of Tamiya Flat Brown+Black. I'm not worried too much about getting an opaque coat--this is going to be followed by two or three more coats anyway.

And then a coat of Tamiya UN-lightened Dark Yellow. I actualy painted it without the spare tracks on it. The wheels all got a coating on the insides.

And then a lightened coat of nearly-white Dark Yellow...I also painted the highlighted coat WITH the spare tracks on the turret, so that the fresh base coat underneath would be visible when I model some of the tracks missing.

ANd then a camo coat of the Tamiya Red Brown and Tamiya Khahki Drab+Dark Green applied freehand...this was painted without the spare links, so that the missing links would show that the tank was painted without them on it, as one would expect.

Now, I really don't really consider this to be a start to the "weathering" yet, but I gave the top of the model a coat of AQUA NET Super Extra Heavy Duty Hold, and then started to apply the winter whitewash, using standard Apple Barrel White craft paint, thinned about 40%, and just slopped on, as it would have been.

Here it is, still drying...

Notice how the spare tracks areas are now showing the regular paint underneath...

Now, I started attacking the paint with a stiff-bristle brush, dissolving the hair spray underneath which carries off the paint on top of it....

...which is then dabbed away with a tissue...

The turret got the same treatment...

Then I used this pick to scrape and poke, and chip away some of the whitewash...

I also used an emery board to scrape the whitewash away from the top ridges of the zimmerit...

Here's what it looks like...

I then applied some decals -- I screwed up the first set of standard "300" when I got a phone call just after aplying the Solvaset, which crumpled them in my inattentiveness! So I applied some red ones, and then painted them over. I also have applied the tracks here, and they are solidifying. I have NOT attached the wheels yet, as I need to remove them to start the weathering.

King Tiger # 300 was part of "Operation South Wind"--the attack on the Soviet bridgehead on the western flank of the Gran RIver in Hungary. Jochen Peiper's 1st SS PanzerKorps led the attack. Here it was photographed 45 miles from Budapest.This photo is from the excellent J. Fedorowicz book "SS Armor on the Eastern Front" by Velimir Vuksic. You can see that it still has the AA ring around the commander's cupola--surprising, as I would have thought it to have been a "final model" KT. You can also see the base coat where the missing links are on the turret.

A few weeks ago, we had a thread going here about MIG pre-mixed washes and weathering products . It got strong opinions on both sides, and I had asked Adam Wilder and Rick Lawler exactly what would make a modeler buy their pre-mixed products when most people would  mix their own. 

To make a long story short, Adam Wilder contacted me a little later, and said that MIG Productions would like to send me some of their products to test out. So for the rest of this model's weatherin, I will be forgoing my "usual" routine of weathering products, and instead using the supplied MIG products exclusively. I am eager to see what results I can achieve here! A big "THANKS!!!" to Adam, RIck, and all at MIG Productions!

Stay tuned for some more updates after I make a little progress here! Now the fun begins!

Questions and comments welcomed!

Mixael wrote:

Well, Doog and Satori, I find myself somewhat in flux between what you two have talked about.  I am a (beginning/returning) modeller that would like to work towards more "miniturist" work.  I'm not good at scratch building, but I'm doing more as I learn HOW and WHAT to do.  I've not used PE as, frankly, it scares me a bit   I've never used AM stuff, but do have some in the wings that have a bit of it.  One of those that is waiting has AM PE and RESIN!  All this to say that this is a great place to learn, and post, as there are so many differing ideas and philosophies.  I read these threads in the deepest hope of either learning something or being inspired, and it hasn't failed yet!  In fact, in the "old days" I would skip the interior if the vehicle was going to be closed up and you wouldn't see stuff.  Now, I not only install it, I even PAINT it, even if I'm the only one that knows it's there.  So, while there are "artist" builders and "rivet counter" builders, I feel I fit comfortably in the middle somewhere. Just my thoughts, now back to building! Michael

Mike - As you hang around here what you find, using a Doog's words, we are all artists..modelers yes, some miniturists...but all artists. But in art there are many different styles. The same here. Hell, I'm half way to the lepor colony since I only build US armor. But thats my thing. Doog is a Germaholic ....into German WWII armor. Manny build dios and great figures.

Anyway...we all learn tricks and concepts from each other yet we all forward our own style. As far AM items, using PE or resin....."you have nothing to fear but fear itself". Try everything, it will expand your mind.

Lasyly have fun.  

Doog....sorry to hijack the thread.....we now return to your regular Doog program!

Rounds Complete!!

Well, Doog and Satori, I find myself somewhat in flux between what you two have talked about.  I am a (beginning/returning) modeller that would like to work towards more "miniturist" work.  I'm not good at scratch building, but I'm doing more as I learn HOW and WHAT to do.  I've not used PE as, frankly, it scares me a bit   I've never used AM stuff, but do have some in the wings that have a bit of it.  One of those that is waiting has AM PE and RESIN! 

All this to say that this is a great place to learn, and post, as there are so many differing ideas and philosophies.  I read these threads in the deepest hope of either learning something or being inspired, and it hasn't failed yet!  In fact, in the "old days" I would skip the interior if the vehicle was going to be closed up and you wouldn't see stuff.  Now, I not only install it, I even PAINT it, even if I'm the only one that knows it's there.  So, while there are "artist" builders and "rivet counter" builders, I feel I fit comfortably in the middle somewhere.

Just my thoughts, now back to building!

Michael 

Satori wrote:

I'm not an expert on the anti magnetic paste, but because it's a paste smeared onto flat surfaces, I think they would cure into a thin, in relative terms, hardened layer. What underneath was armor steel, which would not be damaged by the scratching and light hitting that would be catastrophic for the zimmerit coating. So when zimmerit chipped off, from a more macro perspective, it should be an even and thin layer that went missing, leaving smooth surfaces below and show uniformed thickness around the edges.

Having said that, I just couldn't see myself being content with a factory-fresh, undamaged coat of zimm, so if I must accept the deep molding of the kit's zimm, then I must also accept the inaccuracy of the chipping method.

Havig read your post, you're much more of a stickler about perceived accuracy than I'll ever be--no disrespect intended, I assure you! I'm more of an "Art" guy, with accuracy coming in a close second. But I don't really get so worked up about what I consider to be "small details" like scale thickness, zimmerit width, "correct" shapes and angles to within microns of inches. To me, "modeling" is that--building a reasonably accurate impression of something. I'm not a "Miniaturist"; I'm a "Modeler"--and that leaves a lot of "wiggle room" in my artist's eye.

But thank you for your perspective--it's always nice to hear the dissenting voice, and the fresh perspective!

In regarding what redleg12 had said, I'd like to give my 2 cents too.

I've been using photo etched upgrades for a while. To me, the companies avaliable have not been very satisfying. I'll make some example to clearify my reasons in a sec. What I want to say is, because the pre fabricated upgrades lacked accuracy, scratch building is still a necessary skill even when building the most common and popular injection plastic kits, if one is a pursuer of accuracy of course.

So my examples.
All the Panther mudguards from Ausf D to F, have the width indicators. And with those, a set of clamps to hold the width indicator when it's detached. This set of clamps have not been accurately produced by any company so far. Not only injection plastic manufactors, but also every single aftermarket photo etched maker out there. Voyager Models, Aber, Lion Roar, ACE, Eduard and Part have all attempted to produce the panther mudguards, none of them made the clamps correctly. Also worth mentioning, none of them positioned the groves correctly either.

Another little thing on the Panthers no photo etched company had made right is the side skirt mounting, less visible in this case. Aber's mouting is missing 2 holes, and Voyager's fixing pin doesn't diplict the steel reinforcement in the middle.

Nobody makes the Panzer IV storage bin cover correctly.

Even more common things like the German tool clamp, no one even makes a corret set for a poplular vehicle such as Tiger, Panther or King Tiger.

The list goes on. One 35th is a scale where everything can be presented correctly, at least in appearance. They don't have to function, but when something looked obviously wrong, it makes me wonder why I had spent the 20 bucks to get the upgrades. Sractch building abilities will always have its places to shine, as there's always space for improvements. 

I'm not an expert on the anti magnetic paste, but because it's a paste smeared onto flat surfaces, I think they would cure into a thin, in relative terms, hardened layer. What underneath was armor steel, which would not be damaged by the scratching and light hitting that would be catastrophic for the zimmerit coating. So when zimmerit chipped off, from a more macro perspective, it should be an even and thin layer that went missing, leaving smooth surfaces below and show uniformed thickness around the edges.

Yes the depth of chipping on zimmerit will vary, and depth of the coating isn't uniformed by any means. However, because the layer was so thin, and then the thickness would be divided by 35 in this case, the variation probably will not be very noticable. So vise versa, when the edges shown gradule depth changes, or slopped if you will, to me it doesn't look real.

I don't know if you can make it appeared any better or "real" than it is now. That is percisely why I said this kit doesn't seemed worth purchasing to me, because I don't think I can make looked any more realistic either. 

Karl - Glad to see you back in the saddle again. As far as the scratch building.....as Bill has said in another thread, it's what separates the assemblers from the modelers. Even a super kit is not  super enough that it does not need a modelers touch to personalize it.

If it ever get to the point of being just an assembler, you just as well go off and buy diecast. Why bother at that point.

We all need to remember the name of the forum.....FINE SCALE MODELER

Everything else is just an assembler.

As far as a new finishing tech.......hummmm, what is going on in the Doog laboratory

Rounds Complete!!

Gotcha, Karl,like I said it never even occurred to me until I saw you two discussing it. I figured if anyone was going to detail something like what the edge of a zim pock would look like, it would probably be you.

I like the IDEA of damaged simm you had, and I like your execution.   

Thanks, Jeff--I agree with you about the "hi-tech" aspect of the kits nowadays. It's getting easier and easier to make a "masterpiece" straight out-of-the-box!

Ernest--I'm not sure how the dot method will work, but I don;t know if I will use it here. I plan to do a winter camo scheme, and I'm not sure that the oil dot thing will be applicable over white.

Bill, I'm not really worried about "perfecting" the zimm-look, honestly. I'm pretty satisfied that with some attentive, creative finishing, it will look just fine! I've already started painting it, and I really don't want to go scraping more plastic, but we'll have to see what happens. This build is realy an "experimental" build, as far as both building and finishing techniques. I'm going to be doing something different with it............

the doog wrote:

Satori wrote: Seemed to me this kit is not worth buying. Shape of the zimmerit pattern isn't very accurate but that's debatable, since not all shared the same patterns. However, the result of chipping the plastic zimmerit doesn;t look good, in my honest opinion. I know it probably took you lots of work, but it doesn't look like layer of material shedded, more like the result of a chisel used on wood.. I think what these kits should include are photo etched mudguards and fenders. Not many places on a model where thickness is clearly visible, and for one of the crucial pieces in this regard, plastic mudguards are much too thick. Thank you, Satori, for your honesty. I have to agree that the zimmerit depth-of-molding does preclude one from maiking a strictly "accurate"-looking chipping process. In place where I have thought that the depth went too far, I have tried to fill it in with putty. The best I could do. However, as zimmerit was a plaster-like material, it would not have "shredded", but instead broken off in chipped pieces of various sizes. This is what I have tried to simulate here.I'm curious as to what you think would have been a more proper way to simulate this effect? No scarcasm intended; I'm sincerely curious--how would you have handled it? Ideally, the will refine the zimmerit molding to where it is a finer texture and shallower depth. In this case, however, I have to "dance with what brung me"--I can only put lipstick on this pig, not make it a princess...

I've never studied this, but I understand what zimmerit is, I think if you defined the edges of the chipped areas, si it looks like a veneer came off and there's a definite end to the armor plate and beginning to the zimm, it might look "better,"although this did not even occur to me until I saw this exchange.

How hard would it be to crisp up the definintion lines where teh armor ends and the zimm begins? 

the doog wrote:

Jeff -- "Scratchbuilding is dead"? EEEK! Who said that?! Actually, I just think that these days there's a lot less need for it! But it's always satisfying to put a little personal touch that you yourself have created on a model!

doog, you just made my day!!  Your statement about "a little personal touch" provides an answer as to why I spend so much time trying to "improve" or "perfect" my builds!  I really never thought about it that way before!  I just thought I was being anal or a rivet counter.  Thanks dude!!  This little nugget will be with me for a long time!

As for your KT!  I'm keeping an eye on this thread because I've got the kit in the stash.  I luv the work you're doing so far and kudos to you for trying to chip the zim.  I'm sure we're all waiting to see how it looks after one of your spectacular paint jobs!  BTW, how will the oil dot method work with all the zim?

the doog wrote:

disastermaster wrote:  the doog wrote: Steve, --that pin mark-- that hole in the back of the mantlet is supposed to be there though, is it not?  Well, not too sure since I don't have this particular kit, but it looks suspiciously like a ejector pin mark. Oh, OK; I think I see it as you were looking at it--no, that's supposed to be there. I found a great shot in the Ryton book "Schwere Panzers in Detail" by Culver and Feist which I'm using for reference. There is a weird little hole behind the mantlet; that's what you're seeing. Phil_H --thanks for that info on those clamps; I'm going to try them when I need more. Bill -- I used to paint everything off the model, but in this case, with all the PE it's just "safer" to attach them all, and then worry about painting them afterward. Besides, I'm going for a winter camo on this, so I won't really have to worry too much about the painting so much in detail, because much of it will be whitewashed. Marc -- thanks for looking in! Jeff -- "Scratchbuilding is dead"? EEEK! Who said that?! Actually, I just think that these days there's a lot less need for it! But it's always satisfying to put a little personal touch that you yourself have created on a model!

Hey Karl!  No one said that, just implied that with all the new fangled process used in manufacturing today, all of the available PE with aluminum and resin pieces now out that one is surprised you would even have to alter a kit that is sold these days. 

You'd think it would have some of the zimm chipped off and not factory fresh looking.  Nice work!

Satori wrote:

Seemed to me this kit is not worth buying. Shape of the zimmerit pattern isn't very accurate but that's debatable, since not all shared the same patterns. However, the result of chipping the plastic zimmerit doesn;t look good, in my honest opinion. I know it probably took you lots of work, but it doesn't look like layer of material shedded, more like the result of a chisel used on wood.. I think what these kits should include are photo etched mudguards and fenders. Not many places on a model where thickness is clearly visible, and for one of the crucial pieces in this regard, plastic mudguards are much too thick.

Ideally, the will refine the zimmerit molding to where it is a finer texture and shallower depth. In this case, however, I have to "dance with what brung me"--I can only put lipstick on this pig, not make it a princess...

Seemed to me this kit is not worth buying. Shape of the zimmerit pattern isn't very accurate but that's debatable, since not all shared the same patterns. However, the result of chipping the plastic zimmerit doesn;t look good, in my honest opinion. I know it probably took you lots of work, but it doesn't look like layer of material shedded, more like the result of a chisel used on wood..

I think what these kits should include are photo etched mudguards and fenders. Not many places on a model where thickness is clearly visible, and for one of the crucial pieces in this regard, plastic mudguards are much too thick.

nice one. looking forward to seeing this one progress.

Terry. 

disastermaster wrote:

the doog wrote: Steve, --that pin mark-- that hole in the back of the mantlet is supposed to be there though, is it not?  Well, not too sure since I don't have this particular kit, but it looks suspiciously like a ejector pin mark.

Phil_H --thanks for that info on those clamps; I'm going to try them when I need more.

Bill -- I used to paint everything off the model, but in this case, with all the PE it's just "safer" to attach them all, and then worry about painting them afterward. Besides, I'm going for a winter camo on this, so I won't really have to worry too much about the painting so much in detail, because much of it will be whitewashed.

Marc -- thanks for looking in!

Jeff -- "Scratchbuilding is dead"? EEEK! Who said that?!

Actually, I just think that these days there's a lot less need for it! But it's always satisfying to put a little personal touch that you yourself have created on a model!