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12.8 cm Waffentrager--FINISHED PICS

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  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by redleg12 on Monday, January 30, 2012 7:19 PM

Well.....I thought Bill was sneaking by, then I see your post so it is official....I am getting careless and need a flogging  Indifferent. Nice work as always....

Looking at your muzzle.....what is the outside diameter??? Is it close to a standard size so you could use a tube and work it front that point. Is there a PE replacement....somewhere....internet search. Otherwise a good center measurements and drilling....carefully

I will keep thinking Confused

Rounds Complete!!

"The Moral High Ground....A Great Place to Emplace Artillery."

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 1, 2012 9:55 AM

redleg12

Well.....I thought Bill was sneaking by, then I see your post so it is official....I am getting careless and need a flogging  Indifferent. Nice work as always....

Looking at your muzzle.....what is the outside diameter??? Is it close to a standard size so you could use a tube and work it front that point. Is there a PE replacement....somewhere....internet search. Otherwise a good center measurements and drilling....carefully

I will keep thinking Confused

Rounds Complete!!

You do need a flogging----if you go back in the thread you'll see that the problem was already corrected ala Von Hammer methods...

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Wednesday, February 1, 2012 10:13 AM

Thanks again, guys--just wanted to say that I"m working away here, re-engineering some stuff on the rear hull that needed attention. The nice thing about these "paper panzers" is that they're not at all set in stone as far as their configuration--and sometimes the research on them doesn't take some realities or possibilities in mind.

I'm adding some cool things to the vehicle that I think would have been added, and Hans is going to be so proud of me Wink. No aftermarket stuff; well, hardly anything, really.

Terry, thanks man--and a good suggestion about the weights being added to counterbalance the weight of the gun; I don't usually go for the metal gun barrel, but this one was sooooooooo long, it seemed to make sense. However, the gun rests pretty squarely on the chassis, and it has a travel lock to rest upon, so I"m confident that it will sit well. Thanks for the suggestion though! Smile

Mike--you know, I actually thought about that--using a piece of tubing to replace the piece, but luckily I pulled it out at the last minute. Don't worry about not catching it in the text--I've got to be the WORST person here about missing details in someone's post and then asking a redundant question, lol!

I'll have an update soon, guys! Thanks to all again!!! Big Smile

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Arkansas
Posted by K-dawg on Wednesday, February 1, 2012 10:48 AM

Good stuff! I wonder how the new Dragon 8.8cm Waffentrager will compare to the Trumpeter one? Hmmmm

Kenneth Childres, Central Arkansas Scale Modelers

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Friday, February 3, 2012 9:55 PM
 

Hey thanks, K-Dawg! I appreciate the look-in!

Well, I figured I better get an update out here before you think I forgot about this one..I'm dedicating this post to Hans Von Hammer, our resident "don't need no stinkin' AM parts!" guy who I hope will find favor with my attempts to scratchbuild 95% of the details here--this one's for you, Hans!

First of all, here's the nifty little sight mechanism--some nice detailing here, and the PE parts are kit parts.

And added to the gun, with seat and pedals added....

Here's the build-up before I started appraising and tinkering with things....SEE THAT GUN CRADLE, TERRY?! Big Smile

OK, so...........Whistling...........I took a look at this concept of a model and thought that there were a number of things that could have used improvement and additions...first of all, tools and some fittings. I added some tools---a shovel, axe. crow bar, on the top hull and fender; they have scrap brass holder locking handles but you can't see them in the photo too well--and added a spare track holder on the front made from brass, wire and strip. (still adding details)

I added an expedient "field mod"--a stowage bin from an old zimmeritted vehicle. I figured they would maybe keep barrel cleaning heads/rags in here? In any case, it presents interesting painting possibilities?

Next, one thing that really bothered me was that these rear spades had no way to raise or keep them up when traveling. The way the kit had them engineered, they would literally drag on the ground. I also didn't like the lack of towing pintles--these parts in circles are solid. So I figured to build hydraulic lifters and replace the towing pintles.

I shaved off those "lights" or whatever they were--remember, everything is "conceptual" here, so you can pretty much take "artistic license" to a degree--and made new pintles, Then, I spent a good two days engineering and making through much trial-&-error some functioning hydraulic lifters. I drilled out some sprue with a micro-drill, and fashioned the rest from styrene rod and strip.

Here's what I have so far...I also added a back to the seat from scrap brass and styrene. You might notice that I cut away the fender insides as well to provide access to the pintles from a cable or hook:

I also plan to add retaining hooks to the spade arms' fronts, to hold them in place during travel. I'm prbably going to portray this vehicle in travel mode, in order to use the gun travel lock to hold up the heavy metal barrel.

I also scratchbuilt some gun cleaning rods and mounted them to a frame on the front gun shield with a little PE butterfly clasp.

That's it so far, guys! Hope you like it--I like these projects because there's so much room for improvisation! I hope you're equally inspired to create your own mods--I've got some more coming on this one; just a few small ones, but you'll have to wait for the next update!

Comments and critiques always welcomed!

the doog

 

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Building models on my kitchen counter top~somewhere in North Carolina
Posted by disastermaster on Friday, February 3, 2012 10:24 PM

 http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/toilet/reading-on-toilet.gifOOOOH......  Something fresh!

A very nice Friday night delight.

 Good call on the accessories too.

On the kitchen counter somewhere in North Carolina

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by redleg12 on Saturday, February 4, 2012 7:21 AM

Karl - The panoramic telescope (sight) is nicely detailed. Interesting scratch build with the with the hydraulic lifters for the spades. Nice job with the ramming staffs. You could have aiming posts somewhere (candy cane poles).....just another item to think about.

OK....now both Bill and Karl doing weekday updates.....what is this world coming to.

Rounds Complete!!

"The Moral High Ground....A Great Place to Emplace Artillery."

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Saturday, February 4, 2012 4:20 PM

Nice work on the mods and additions Karl! This baby definitely shows the German obsession with big guns...Big Smile

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: San Francisco Bay Area
Posted by bufflehead on Saturday, February 4, 2012 4:32 PM

Excellent scratchbuilding Karl!  I love all the additions you've incorporated....not only are they logical (especially the hydraulic lifters) ,but they will add immensely to the overall buld.  Its coming together very nicely! 

Ernest

Last Armor Build - 1/35 Dragon M-26A1, 1/35 Emhar Mk.IV Female

     

Last Aircraft Builds - Hobby Boss 1/72 F4F Wildcat & FW-190A8

     

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Dublin Rep Of Ireland
Posted by terry35 on Saturday, February 4, 2012 5:47 PM

Wow that is some size Karl. Gotcha on the gun cradle, just a question, if you pointed the gun over to 90 degrees would it alter the balance, I now know the question is redundant because of the way you intend to display the vehicle, but curiosity and all that. Te cradle will more than likely support the kit over time. I love the struts you have added to the legs, cool.

I look forward to seeing you progress.

Regards,

Terry.

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Carmel, IN
Posted by deafpanzer on Saturday, February 4, 2012 9:59 PM

Oh my!  That gun is BIG!  I count only 6 cleaning rods... I think you need to make another 6. LOL  Looking real good!

Andy

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Sunday, February 5, 2012 12:26 PM

Guys, thank for all the Yes's and comments!

Gotta love your million-and-one Smileys for every occasion, Steve!

Mike, I thought really hard about the "candy canes", but my gut tells me that this vehicle would have been utilized primarily in a panzerjager role. When you think about the time frame and the state of the war then, I think that it would have been put to use in a defensive role, and I'm not convinced the crew would've had the luxury of having the time to lay down coordinates and distances. Great minds wonder alike though, I guess? Wink

Thanks too, Bill, Ernest, and Terry! Terry, yes, the vehicle would definitely "fall over" if you turned the barrel 90 degrees. I'll be capturing that big barrel in the travel lock, however, so it'll be pretty stable. Smile

Thanks, too, Andy--I made sure to "scale" out the cleaning rods--put together, they'd span the length of the gun tube. Smile

Working away here; should have the thing ready for paint by tomorrow with the next and last update on construction....stay tuned! Big Smile

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Sunday, February 5, 2012 12:42 PM

Karl

Really impressive scratch building there. This thing is truly a conceptual behemoth!

I'd agree with you on the candy canes - to me, this has the look of something used in a direct fire, primarily anti-tank role as opposed to indirect.

Having said that, since it is all 'made up', the candy canes might make for an interesting splash of color and suggest a dual purpose mission for this big monster.

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Sunday, February 5, 2012 3:22 PM

If Karl wanted to satisfy both crowds, he could take advantage of the fact that the Germans often had the ranging poles do double duty as cleaning rods...so some of the rods he's already built would be candy-striped (4 of the 6) and the others not. Wink Even the Jagdtiger had ranging poles and it mounted the same gun.

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Sunday, February 5, 2012 4:45 PM

wbill76

If Karl wanted to satisfy both crowds, he could take advantage of the fact that the Germans often had the ranging poles do double duty as cleaning rods...so some of the rods he's already built would be candy-striped (4 of the 6) and the others not.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh............. Indifferent

Good Grief, Bill! Don't get me confused now! lol! Big Smile

Actually, it's an excellent suggestion--I just don't know if I'd be able to pull off the painting requirements of masking, etc, with them glued on already like that.

Oh hell, who am I kidding? Of course I would--I just don't know if I'm too lazy too at this point?! Whistling..Wink

Boyd -- thanks for looking in as well, and for the comments and suggestions! Big Smile

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by redleg12 on Sunday, February 5, 2012 4:55 PM

the doog

 wbill76:

If Karl wanted to satisfy both crowds, he could take advantage of the fact that the Germans often had the ranging poles do double duty as cleaning rods...so some of the rods he's already built would be candy-striped (4 of the 6) and the others not.

 

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u244/heydoog/misc%20unrelaed%20photos/deer-in-the-headlights.jpg

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh............. Indifferent

Good Grief, Bill! Don't get me confused now! lol! Big Smile

Actually, it's an excellent suggestion--I just don't know if I'd be able to pull off the painting requirements of masking, etc, with them glued on already like that.

Oh hell, who am I kidding? Of course I would--I just don't know if I'm too lazy too at this point?! Whistling..Wink

Boyd -- thanks for looking in as well, and for the comments and suggestions! Big Smile

Sorry for stirring up a hornets nest mentioning the aiming posts Surprise .... The aiming posts would add a splash of color, just the artilleryman in me!! Now as far as easy.....we would not be the modelers we are if we did easy Wink Good luck

Back to my PE pnematic hoses and fittings on my 8 inch howitzerSurprise Details....you have to love them!

Rounds Complete!!

 

"The Moral High Ground....A Great Place to Emplace Artillery."

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, February 6, 2012 8:20 AM

He's gone "Von Hammer" on us...very cool.  Maybe those spades that late in the war were manually put into place and then manually removed and stowed when on the move???  Anyways---your taking the basic model and adding your own what-ifs makes it more your creation and has the bonus of noone telling you its wrong!!!  Too cool for school, my friend...

...can't wait to see how you color her up...keep in mind that barrels were in a greyish primer...I could see this thing in part red-oxide primer, part dark yellow and maybe part in grey barrel primer...!!!  maybe some camo to boot...what a canvas to work with...

I hereby crown Karl the Paper-Panzer King.

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Currently Moscow, Russia
Posted by Coldsteel6d on Monday, February 6, 2012 1:08 PM

Love this write up. Gotta say my favorite part is the no BS honesty. I like to see how someone as accomplished as we all know you are has a run in or two and still puts it out there for all to see. I get the feeling a lot of the WIP write ups are touched up slide shows that just show off the successful steps on route to a finished project.

Its great to see the obstacles you run into and better yet how you conquered them. Lost to be learned here for sure. No doubt this one will be as great as your other masterpieces.

 

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Monday, February 6, 2012 5:45 PM

Manstein's revenge

He's gone "Von Hammer" on us...very cool.  Maybe those spades that late in the war were manually put into place and then manually removed and stowed when on the move???  Anyways---your taking the basic model and adding your own what-ifs makes it more your creation and has the bonus of noone telling you its wrong!!!  Too cool for school, my friend...

...can't wait to see how you color her up...keep in mind that barrels were in a greyish primer...I could see this thing in part red-oxide primer, part dark yellow and maybe part in grey barrel primer...!!!  maybe some camo to boot...what a canvas to work with...

I hereby crown Karl the Paper-Panzer King.

Ha ha, Thanks, Manny! Big Smile

Man, I would think that those spades would have been HEAVVVV--VEE! I dunno if you could actually pick 'em up without breaking your back? But hey, who knows? Like you said, that's one of the joys of "Paper Panzers"---the possibilities! Stick out tongue

You're tuned right into my way of thinking with the painting! I was thinking of a primer red vehicle with a gray primed barrel, and "inside white" paint on the breech/gun mount, as if it would have extracted from an existing vehicle? I was also throwing around the idea of some hard-edged DY camo over the shields? Maybe some DY wheels...honestly, it's scary how close to my thinking you were on this! Great minds...lol? Whistling........Toast

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Monday, February 6, 2012 5:48 PM

ColdSteel, hey thank you, that's a nice comment, and something I've never heard before. I like to think that anyone can make a model look unique, and some of the best "tricks" and ideas I've had have truly come from "accidents". I try to document them so that others can be inspired to never give up and to soldier on even after something that you might ordinarily think of as "disastrous" happens.

Thanks for the sincere compliment, and I'm happy to know you're tuned in!

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, February 6, 2012 5:53 PM

the doog

 Manstein's revenge:

He's gone "Von Hammer" on us...very cool.  Maybe those spades that late in the war were manually put into place and then manually removed and stowed when on the move???  Anyways---your taking the basic model and adding your own what-ifs makes it more your creation and has the bonus of noone telling you its wrong!!!  Too cool for school, my friend...

...can't wait to see how you color her up...keep in mind that barrels were in a greyish primer...I could see this thing in part red-oxide primer, part dark yellow and maybe part in grey barrel primer...!!!  maybe some camo to boot...what a canvas to work with...

I hereby crown Karl the Paper-Panzer King.

 

Ha ha, Thanks, Manny! Big Smile

Man, I would think that those spades would have been HEAVVVV--VEE! I dunno if you could actually pick 'em up without breaking your back? But hey, who knows? Like you said, that's one of the joys of "Paper Panzers"---the possibilities! Stick out tongue

You're tuned right into my way of thinking with the painting! I was thinking of a primer red vehicle with a gray primed barrel, and "inside white" paint on the breech/gun mount, as if it would have extracted from an existing vehicle? I was also throwing around the idea of some hard-edged DY camo over the shields? Maybe some DY wheels...honestly, it's scary how close to my thinking you were on this! Great minds...lol? Whistling........Toast

Hey, I think it could be the "great minds" thing.  I'm with you on all but the white breech and mount---I mean what other vehicle carried this mutha?  The only thing I know would have been the Jagtiger, but I dunno if it had the exact gun or mount (but both are 12.8 cm)...???

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Monday, February 6, 2012 5:57 PM

OK, well the beast is ready for painting--this is the last construction update.

I've added some more small details--here's a look at the rear of the vehicle. I've added a central towing pintle, some handles to help raise the big spades, and some hooks to secure them, and some small details to the shields.

I also added some inside detail--a gas canister container her inside. I also put that cleaning head on one of the rods for added visual interest, and added some small detailed simulated-threaded ends to the rods.

Here's the clips on the tool holders too...

I haven't even started the tracks yet--ugh, I tool a look at wbill76's website to see what I was in for with these MK tracks, and it looks like it's going to be a task to get them all cleaned up and assembled. Got some work there....but for now, I've lightly primed the model with Tamiya Gray and will be putting a base coat of Red Primer on it soon.

That's all for now! Should have an update in a day or two when I get some proper paint down!

Stay tuned!! Big Smile

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Monday, February 6, 2012 6:02 PM

Manny, you're correct--the Jagdtiger would have had this gun too. I think it's add some visual interest, and a bit of "story" to it. The muzzle brake, of course, will not have been used on it in the JT, but that will be cool as well; it can be painted either DY or red, as an add-on piece!

I'll do some research to be sure; that may change in time....

  • Member since
    August 2008
  • From: S.W. Missouri
Posted by Pvt Mutt on Monday, February 6, 2012 6:32 PM

My My Karl that rig is going to be BOSSToast

Katy Bar the Door here comes the judge,here comes the judge.Cool

Tony leeSmile

Shoot Low Boys They're Ridin Ponys

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, February 7, 2012 6:35 AM

I love this model and want to marry it...

That travel lock sure looks flimsy for that mutha of a canon!!!

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Tuesday, February 7, 2012 2:02 PM

Very nice work on the additional details Karl, really dressing this one up in style! Beer

The best advice I can give you on the tracks is to work on them in stages while watching TV or other similar activity...it helps break up the monotony! Depending on the track type I usually create an "assembly line" type of process that helps move things along and work with sections of 10 or so links at a time...that way you feel like you're making progress and it's not so much of a slog. Wink

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Tuesday, February 7, 2012 5:50 PM

Thanks, Tony! Hey, don't go singing "Here comes da judge", or you're going to have me thinking about going back to the garage for a GTO fix! lol!

Thanks for the Yes!

Manny, ha ha; consider yourself "betrothed"! Kiss Hey, I DID research that idea I had about the white gun mount, et al, and you were right--the mounting for this gun in its "field gun" role was not the same as a JT. So I went back to the idea of a field gun mounted on a primer-red  testbed vehicle. Good call!

Bill, thanks for the advice! I looked at your blog and got that impression; that "Patience" counts! (I think you'd said as much in one post!) I"l get to those tracks one of these nights after I get some paint on it. I"m about halfway through the shading coats now...thanks for "following" my build here!

Big Smile

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Tuesday, February 7, 2012 6:51 PM

Manstein's revenge

I love this model and want to marry it...

That travel lock sure looks flimsy for that mutha of a canon!!!

Is Polygamy allowed in the Fatherland? Der Fuhrer is making phone calls......

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by redleg12 on Tuesday, February 7, 2012 8:42 PM

Karl, I see you made it to Prime Time!!! Just as a note, in the future as an /acrylic lover, you may want to try the Vallejo primers. I tried the OD primer and I am hooked. Right from the bottle to AB, lays down and covers well and not too thick to cover details. Price is also good

Rounds.Complete!!

"The Moral High Ground....A Great Place to Emplace Artillery."

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Tuesday, February 7, 2012 10:11 PM

redleg12

Karl, I see you made it to Prime Time!!! Just as a note, in the future as an /acrylic lover, you may want to try the Vallejo primers. I tried the OD primer and I am hooked. Right from the bottle to AB, lays down and covers well and not too thick to cover details. Price is also good

Rounds.Complete!!

Thanks for the recommendation, Mike! I've picked up some Vallejo paints, but you know what I absolutely HATE about them? Those crappy little bottles! I just can't work with them. What do you do with the paint if you put too much out of the bottle? You've wasted it? Drives me crazy. Alas, with the limited availability of my favorite Tamiyas, I may have to start looking at them for future use!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

OK--paint update! Stick out tongue

I started out with a dark red primer--this is Tamiya's Hull Red with a smidge of Red and some Black added. I painted the hull and wheels in this color. The travel lock is masked-it's going to be DY.

 

Next, I sprayed some straight Hull Red. It's hard to see, but it grades the finish a little lighter...

 

A rare action shot from the dooghouse! I'm using mask templates to block off sections that I don't want covered, and I'm now spraying a lighter Primer color that I have added some Buff to...

Here's the shading result.

In the flash, it really looks glaring, but those of you who know my usual methods know that this is what I like to do, the better to tone it down and use the harsh gradient to my advantage when weathering and finishing. Note that the "tub" is a lot darker, because it would be more in the shadows.

I was going to paint the gun white as if it were used in a previous vehicle, but thank to Manny, I re-checked my references and realized that that would be unrealistic, so I started the DY coat with a dark DY to which I had added some dark Grey. I had already painted a base coat of DY before I realized that I'd forgot to do a dark coat.....hey, it's late....Sleep

 

Next, I graded the lightness with a standard coat of DY.

And then added some white and added a highlighting coat.

And a teaser---the gun has been painted the dark grey primer that was used on barrels--it looks nearly black here, but I will mitigate that with filters when the time comes.

And that's the end of "phase one"--there's still more masking and careful painting tomorrow before I start the weathering....tune in tomorrow night for more!

Thanks for looking in, guys!

Karl the doog.....

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