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12.8 cm Waffentrager--FINISHED PICS

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  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Building models on my kitchen counter top~somewhere in North Carolina
Posted by disastermaster on Tuesday, February 7, 2012 10:36 PM

 A question.

http://board.marlincrawler.com/Smileys/marlin/pokinit.gif How much is a smidge, really?


A revelation.

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-fc/bottle.gifI hate those stoopid lil' bottles too.


A statement I overheard.

http://southrnfresh.com/images/smilies/naziskie.gif I vil not allow Manstein to marry my sister!

Nein, Nein, Nein, NEIN !!!


And an observation.

As always,the paint brings on the anticipation. I think you're spot on with this.

 

On the kitchen counter somewhere in North Carolina

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 8, 2012 10:35 AM

the doog

 

 

 

 

Here's the shading result.

 

 

 

 

 

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u244/heydoog/Waffentrager/100_2939.jpg

I'm digging this look...

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Wednesday, February 8, 2012 2:34 PM

Yeah, that's hot...Toast

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 8, 2012 2:47 PM

Wouldn't it be cool to partially paint on some camo green on a portion of one side, as if the crew had begun to paint over the primer and just ran outta time???

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Wednesday, February 8, 2012 3:50 PM

Definitely a lot going on visually with this one Karl, look forward to the next round! Beer

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Wednesday, February 8, 2012 6:09 PM

Hey, thanks, Steve, Manny, Boyd, and Bill! Once again, I appreciate you guys following along and offering suggestions!

Manny, I actually thought about that aspect of it, but actually decided against it because of the nature of the poses that I have in the crew figures that I'm going to pose with it--kinda laid back, hanging out. Also, as you'll see, the paint scheme I chose kinda tells its own narrative?

And now, without further ado...

The paint and camo is finished. You can see that I used some masks to paint the travel lock and stowage box; I made these out of index cards and masking tape.

And now the finished paint. My concept for this vehicle is a new hull which has been left in Primer Red; the gun was taken from an existing carriage and mounted to this hull. A new barrel was fitted for the new weapon, and the old muzzle brake used. The stowage bin is from a damaged tank of some sort and was thus painted with a brush for visual interest and contrast; the travel lock also a "spare" part painted in DY. The wheels are simply DY--in most of the photos of Waffentragers and indeed a lot of late-war vehicles that I've seen, they seems to have plain DY wheels. All paint is Tamiya.

No, I still haven't got to the tracks...Sad I MAY paint the front spare tracks rack in rusty, bare metal, as if it was a field expedient? Might be cool?

Next up: decals (minimal, of course) and then start in weathering....Stick out tongue

All comments welcomed! Big Smile.

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2007
  • From: Truro Nova Scotia, Canada
Posted by SuppressionFire on Wednesday, February 8, 2012 6:39 PM

A stretched 38(t) on steroids?

Leave it to the desperate last days to design such a weapon!

The story line paint scheme is spot on. looking forward to how its weathered to nail down the concept.Hmm

I would fire the first round via long rope from behind a building, that chassis looks barely capable of moving the cannon let alone firing a shell!

Kind of dropped in, is this a 'paper Panzer' or a fielded design?

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/razordws/GB%20Badges/WMIIIGBsmall.jpg

 

 

  • Member since
    August 2008
  • From: S.W. Missouri
Posted by Pvt Mutt on Wednesday, February 8, 2012 6:40 PM

Karl there's more interest there than 40 people can handle. The other 60 will fall in line with the detailing and weathering for sure.YesCool

Cat Nip will do that to youWink

Tony lee

Shoot Low Boys They're Ridin Ponys

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by redleg12 on Wednesday, February 8, 2012 6:59 PM

Karl - LOOKING GOOD!!!

BTW....the Vallejo primers don't come in the little crappy bottles.....check out this link

http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/gb/primers-gb.html

They are a 60 ml bottle....and yes the top screws off to pour excess back in from the AB. You could use the Hull Red primer and eliminate a coat of paint......just a thought and wanted to make sure you were looking at the right thing!! You know me, I like to try something new....At $5 for 60ml and great coverage, I adopted it.....trying to share the love!!

No it is time for the King of Finish to begin his work.....always fun to watch

Rounds Complete!!

"The Moral High Ground....A Great Place to Emplace Artillery."

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by oddmanrush on Wednesday, February 8, 2012 7:04 PM

Awesome work Karl, can't wait to see the weathering! I have a question about the road wheels. I don't know much about armor painting practices, especially late in the war. Why would the wheels have color but the hull left in primer red? 

Either way, I really like it. Visually interesting indeed!

Jon

My Blog: The Combat Workshop 

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Wednesday, February 8, 2012 7:34 PM

Hey, thanks guys, for the comments!

SuppressionFire, this was a concept for a Waffentrager ("Weapon Carrier) that never actually made it to prototype stage. It was apparently only a design.

Ha ha, thanks Tony!

Mike, thanks for the info on the Vallejo primers! That's cool that they actually come in bottles! I have to see if I can find the bottled ones--I"d like to maybe think about using these paints, but only when they come out in bottles where I'm not feeling like I"m wasting paint. For the life of me, I can't believe that they haven't corrected the flaw of that "medicine dropper" bottle. Unfortunately, I've only ever seen the dropper-bottles on the stores' racks? Thanks for the comments and vote of confidence!

Jon, the way I'm reasoning it is that the wheels were produced for the 38t series--Hetzers, Marders, etc--so they would have been produced "in bulk", and probably painted. You can see a well-known shot of one of these related waffentragers where the wheels are plainly painted in DY. Of course, the hull is too, but I reason that the hull here is "so new" that it was just left in primer to get the gun mounted and out to the front as soon as possible?

Big Smile

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Carmel, IN
Posted by deafpanzer on Wednesday, February 8, 2012 8:01 PM

WOW!  I have to say it is one of most weird looking armor I have seen... so pumped up on steroids?  I am really enjoying your WIP.  It is really good having you back! 

 

Andy

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Queensbury,NY
Posted by panzer88 on Wednesday, February 8, 2012 8:14 PM

Looking great Doog!!!! That muzzle break looks sweeeeet, incedible save there.This beasty is shaping very nicely. And I know it is only going to get better.

     

  • Member since
    August 2008
  • From: S.W. Missouri
Posted by Pvt Mutt on Wednesday, February 8, 2012 8:18 PM

Hey guys the eye dropper part of a Vallejo bottle just pulls out,I do it all the time.Yes

Tony lee

Shoot Low Boys They're Ridin Ponys

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 8, 2012 8:31 PM

Looks great...doog, IMO I would think there would be NO markings on this mutha...not even a national cross...I love the camo on the shield but I feel that the camo on the muzzle brake is a bit overdone (typically even if an AFV was heavily camoed it rarely extended on the barrel, and if it did very rarely to the muzzle brake)---I woulda left it in dark yellow.  I still can't get over how well that brake turned out!

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: San Francisco Bay Area
Posted by bufflehead on Wednesday, February 8, 2012 9:38 PM

Whoa!  I blink my eyes and the doog had almost got this one done!!  Amazing work Karl!!  I love the Frankenstein looking effect you've accomplished with paint job you did!  I'm very curious to see what you're going to do with the dark gray barrel.  Hmm

Ernest

Last Armor Build - 1/35 Dragon M-26A1, 1/35 Emhar Mk.IV Female

     

Last Aircraft Builds - Hobby Boss 1/72 F4F Wildcat & FW-190A8

     

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: El Dorado Hills, CA
Posted by IBuild148 on Wednesday, February 8, 2012 10:43 PM

Your moving this thing right along. Dig the paint scheme. The Germans were a creative bunch. I'll be watching the weathering.

IBuildOne48

Teach modeling to youth!

Scalefinishes.com

http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww122/randysmodels/NMF%20Group%20build%20II/Group%20Badge/NMFIIGBbadgesmall.jpg

 

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Kristiansund, Norway
Posted by Huxy on Thursday, February 9, 2012 6:41 AM

That's an interesting scheme! Well done.

"Every War Starts And Ends With An Invasion".

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by oddmanrush on Thursday, February 9, 2012 9:08 AM

Thanks for answering my question Karl. I wouldn't have thought that wheels were produced in bulk and painted separate from the tank. There is always good stuff to learn here. That's a pretty neat shot of the Waffentrager as well. Keep up the good work!

Jon

My Blog: The Combat Workshop 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Thursday, February 9, 2012 10:08 AM

Karl

As always, your work is both excellent and distinct. I like the way you illustrate your thought process for all to see.

I can't wait to see the weathering stages you will put into this.

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Thursday, February 9, 2012 1:35 PM

Karl,

I agree with Manny about the muzzle brake...those usually got replaced right along with the barrel as opposed to being re-used. I can't recall any photos off the top of my head where there was a replacement barrel with a painted muzzle brake...doesn't mean it didn't ever happen but for visual continuity I would suggest repainting the brake in the lacquer primer. I'm also curious as to why you decided to paint only the travel lock in DY (you might have said it in an earlier post but am too lazy to check Wink )? It's an integral part of the hull and wouldn't have been assembled/provided separately as a rule. I do like the wheels in DY as a visual contrast though. Also agree with Manny about the markings...leaving the hull in primer would equate to no markings IMHO. Looking forward to the next round! Yes

 

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Thursday, February 9, 2012 6:22 PM

Andy -- thanks, man! It's good to be back!

panzer88 -- Eric, is it? Thanks; I"m relieved that I saved that muzzle brake! I think it looks better than the plastic one could ever have looked!

Tony -- wow, I didn't know about the dropper tops pulling out of the Vallejo bottle! I thought it was sealed in there somehow--wow, that's great to know! Thanks!

Manny -- You're right about the markings--I've taken your advice and nixed the idea. Wink I have researched the muzzle brake, and it probably was Black or at least the same color as the barrel--that will be easy enough to fix, though it pains me to blacken it. I liked the color variation. Embarrassed

Ernest -- thanks for looking in, too! I"m trying to get this barrel thing straightened out here. But I"m glad you like the color scheme!

Marc -- thanks too, for taking the time to comment!

You too, Huxy!

Jon-- believe me, this is the place to learn things that you need to know about armor! I learn new things every day here--or should I say "every WIP!" Thanks for the comments!

Boyd -- thanks too for dropping in! It's great to be back and sharing the fun I have here. (It's easier to do without the O&E being such a temptation to cruise....Embarrassed lol)

Bill -- once again, thanks for straightening me out. If there's a guy here who knows his stuff inside and out, it's gotta be you--and I'll take your advice on the travel lock and--along with Manny's views--the muzzle brake. I got on a thread on Armorama where a guy said that gun barrels came separately from the muzzle brakes, but I don't know for sure, so I'll err on the side of caution if that's possible. Dark Grey it is! That'll be easy to correct. BTW, the travel lock color was just an idea thinking that it would have already been manufactured in the diameter for the large barrel? Maybe it was a stretch..Whistling

Thanks again, guys, for all the kind comments and the useful, informative suggestions!!! Big Smile Update coming real soon!

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, February 9, 2012 6:41 PM

the doog

Manny -- You're right about the markings--I've taken your advice and nixed the idea. Wink I have researched the muzzle brake, and it probably was Black or at least the same color as the barrel--that will be easy enough to fix, though it pains me to blacken it. I liked the color variation. Embarrassed

Bill -- once again, thanks for straightening me out. If there's a guy here who knows his stuff inside and out, it's gotta be you--and I'll take your advice on the travel lock and--along with Manny's views--the muzzle brake. I got on a thread on Armorama where a guy said that gun barrels came separately from the muzzle brakes, but I don't know for sure, so I'll err on the side of caution if that's possible. Dark Grey it is! That'll be easy to correct.

doog, I think you'd be good with leaving it in dark yellow...my concern was the camo on top of the dark yellow...I'd go dark yellow sans camo on it---as you mentioned, the brake is separate from the barrel...my concern was that I've never seen camo extend up on the brake like that.  Bill?

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Thursday, February 9, 2012 9:25 PM

Manny--thanks for the suggestions. I've already painted the muzzle brake to match the gun tube; maybe I"ll go back to DY; I haven't made up my mind yet, but I think that the idea Bill proposed is sound. If you have any definite evidence, let's have it; it would help!

Anyhoo......I've got a painting/filtering update.

I started out by applying an overall filter of "Gray for Dark Yellow", just to fade the red a bit. Then I started in here with "Faded Dark Yellow" which is actually a funny orangey color, and also Primer Red, with some Buff, which is a nice, neutral tan. I added them in small diluted dots, adding them from the wet brush, NOT with a toothpick! NOTE--they are not "full strength"< but diluted with "Thinner for Washes" somewhat.

With a large, soft brush, I start to work them in to the paint...

Next, I take some Buff and add it to the model with a small brush.

Then with a DIFFERENT, flat brush, I pull the color out, blending it into the fender to simulate dust build-up.

This technique was then used with various color oils in dark browns, lighter browns, and all kinds of shades and variations/mixes in between, on the fenders and hull tops and sides. Streaks were added by pulling down the colors with a DRY brush after putting the colors on and massaging them into the base with a slightly WET brush.

Here I'm going back to the primer red color in order to bring some of the reddishness back into the paint coat. You can see the results of the oils and filters on the rest of the model. The method that I use in the next series of photos is the same that I used for all the colors, so pay attention!

First, select the diluted, thinned color; in this case, primer red:

add it to the model:

Now I use a DIFFERENT, DRY brush to massage the color into the paint. Flat, dry brushes work well for blending.

Here's the results SO FAR. More will be done once this dries well. The spare tracks rack was a field mod and will be rusty, as it was bare metal--still to be painted as such.

Note the subtle color gradients: the storage box is only starting to get worked on.

The first layer of weathering in the rear, Note the fenders, where the crew would stand, transferring a lot of dirt. Remember; I still have pigments to apply! Stick out tongue

With flash: the cleaner upper hull and clearer "red" color is evident here:

Now I'm going to show you a cool trick to use on wheels:

The wheels were weathered by simply adding filters of various colors--grey, Buff, etc, and a bit of raw umber. Then I wanted to add some random spots and discoloration. I did this by thinning some color. in this case "Shadow Brown"...I load up a brush with it. Practice this technique against some cardboard before you try it on the model...

Next, get a large brush handle, or a similar implement to use, and smack the loaded brush against it like you're a drummer counting a song off--the oil color on the smaller brush will spatter onto the wheels (or model) leaving random spots.

You can then use another brush to mediate the color--draw it outward for streaks, or move the brush around the inside circumference of the wheel to "clean it up" a bit. You can see that I"m doing this with different colors as well, for variety. And I will still be adding some pigments after this, most likely....note that the rubber parts have not been painted yet.

 

The wheels so far: I'll be adding to these with some grease runs and whatnot.

I do have figures too...the one in the middle will be put on my Tiger Coelian; the outside ones will crew this beast...

Well that's it for now! I hope you get some ideas out of this little toot! Comments, questions, and suggestions always welcomed! Smile

 

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Rugby, England
Posted by Hinksy on Friday, February 10, 2012 8:21 AM

Hey Karl,

This beast is looking superb!

Great tutorial btw, I like the bit on the wheels as I'm always trying to add some life to them and as I'll be doing my Tiger I wheels soon this will help me a lot Yes

I see your buff weathering to give a dusty appearance. On some of my builds I like to put a drop of Tamiya Buff into my ab cup and heavily dilute with water then spray along edges and fenders etc. When the water dries it leaves a great dusty effect.

I know it's different with your Enamels but she's looking great - this build is going to be KILLER Cool 

Keep the photos coming - I'm loving this one!

Ben Toast

On the Bench - Dragon Pz. IV Ausf. G (L.A.H.) Yes

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  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Friday, February 10, 2012 9:10 AM

A subject that gets more interesting by the day. I like the painting toots, which make things more simplistic to slow people like myself. Embarrassed

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by oddmanrush on Friday, February 10, 2012 9:15 AM

Lookin' pretty sweet there Karl! I still haven't gotten the hang of that filtering process. Every time I try it, I wind up ruining the base coat. Sad You seem to have it down pat! 

Jon

My Blog: The Combat Workshop 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Friday, February 10, 2012 9:27 AM

Karl

A question about your technique:

In the beginning of the toot, you descibe laying on your filters and you describe quite nicely how you do it. Then you state:

"This technique was then used with various color oils in dark browns, lighter browns, and all kinds of shades and variations/mixes in between, on the fenders and hull tops and sides. Streaks were added by pulling down the colors with a DRY brush after putting the colors on and massaging them into the base with a slightly WET brush."

I am curious if you gave any time to dry between the layers or did you lay them on in pretty rapid succession?

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Friday, February 10, 2012 11:43 AM

Looking good Karl and a nice little toot to go with some of the techniques being applied!

I don't want to cloud the issue here of the muzzle brake so will do my best to keep this short. The brakes were indeed separate from the barrel (all brakes were screwed on and secured to the barrel) as a separate part. The barrels were treated with a special lacquer heat-resistant primer (the dark gray you have used) because of the temps subjected to when firing...the same holds true for the muzzle brakes, they too needed the same heat resistance and followed the same painting procedure. 

Here's where I apply logic to my thought process. As Manny points out, camo was rarely extended up to the muzzle brake on artillery pieces but was common on tanks and SPGs depending on the time period and inclination of the crew for field-applied patterns...so there's some latitude in that respect.

Barrels were replaced when either damaged or worn out and there's no guarantee that the brake wasn't also damaged or worn out...and a barrel without a brake meant that it wouldn't be serviceable due to excessive recoil. I would expect as a rule that replacement barrels would always include a replacement brake to go with them as a result. Would exceptions occur? Probably here and there as we all know that you can "never say never" when it comes to that type of possibility. However in this case we are dealing with a prototype under development being hurried into fight in the "last days" type of scenario. It would stand to reason that "if" they had replaced the barrel with a brand new one because the previous field one had been used/worn out, they would also replace the brake but hadn't yet gone through with full hull painting yet. Ergo my suggestion to have them look the same. Wink  

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Building models on my kitchen counter top~somewhere in North Carolina
Posted by disastermaster on Friday, February 10, 2012 3:45 PM

Well, the new forum format precludes history and destroys the text I entered here 3 years ago.

On the kitchen counter somewhere in North Carolina

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