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Model T 1913 Speedster WIP ( Done 4/30/22)

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  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Thursday, April 7, 2022 11:33 AM

Hey there, Greg. Your question sparked another thought I have. This was the process I used on these:

1. Primer, in this case Gunze GSI followed by a light sanding.

2. Sprayed a layer of Testors Glosscote. I do this to smooth out the piece even further. I draw out the gloss, so no sanding is required. If a spec gets  onto the piece, I lightly sand.

3. Spray Alclad Brass.

4. Add a final seal coat of Testors Glosscote. Mainly to protect the paint because is somewhat delicate.

5. Apply a wash.

Step 4 is where it got interesting. I didn't do that this time. Either the hot lacquer melted the clear underneath or, the spray issue I mentioned added a sealant to the Alclad. As I mentioned at times it was spraying clear. So either that was lacquer coming through, or some type of suspension in the paint. The brass paint mixed together with the clear making them one. I didn't have to apply the final sealant. I got a high gloss out of this. It was kind of cool it worked out that way but a person has to be careful that the piece doesn't lose too much detail.

None of this is here nor there but I thought interesting to note. Is it a fluke? Maybe. 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Thursday, April 7, 2022 9:54 PM

Did you say MotoMeter?  I searched through my stash of unused decals and found some gauges that could fit the bill. Not like the real graphic, but close enough for my purposes. Using my punch set I found a good diameter and punched away.

Decal is installed, one on each side. I will dab some future to add gloss and seal it. My other thought is to dab some Tamiya clear red, or maybe green, a sort of colored glass. Most of the MotoMeter images I found appear to be colored. Though, I did find white as well. Going the Tamiya path could be risky. It might drown out the graphic too much.

Anyhow-- this is what I came up with.

 

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Friday, April 8, 2022 7:42 AM

Very nice !

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Friday, April 8, 2022 8:18 AM

Great !

      I do know they had a RedLine just like a tach. It was the absolute pressure allowed before the Poppet Valve inside blew and let steam out. The meter had a hinge just within the housing so's ya wouldn't lose it if that happened!

     Also, if that happened ya better find some water quick. Remember, they didn't have year round Anti-freeze engine coolant then!

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Friday, April 8, 2022 8:58 AM

Yes but the whole thing looks nice, Ford emblem, shell, cap and the black radiator. A clean antique look. As my dearly departed wife would have said " good job well done".

  • Member since
    June 2014
Posted by BrandonK on Friday, April 8, 2022 9:50 AM

Awesome, it looks like a wonder kit. We all better enjoy these ICM kits now because we will not likely ever see them produced again.

BK

On the bench:

Tamiya 1/35 M4A3E8 "Fury" with crew,

1/32 Kittyhawk Kingfisher,

1/35 Meng Panther Ausf A Early,

1/48 Pro Modeller P-51C "Boise Bee"

2022 Completed:

1/25 Revell 29 Highboy

1/48 Tamiya Sea Harrier

1/25 Revell 70 Boss 429 Mustang

1/48 Hasegawa D3A1 Type 99 Val

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Friday, April 8, 2022 10:43 AM

oldermodelguy

Very nice !

 

Thanks Dave !

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Friday, April 8, 2022 10:50 AM

Thanks, TB! 

Tanker-Builder
I do know they had a RedLine just like a tach. It was the absolute pressure allowed before the Poppet Valve inside blew and let steam out. The meter had a hinge just within the housing so's ya wouldn't lose it if that happened!

Very interesting. Thanks for the commentary. I love hearing about how these old cars operated.

Tanker-Builder
 Also, if that happened ya better find some water quick. Remember, they didn't have year round Anti-freeze engine coolant then!

Maybe I should strap some water kegs, like the Beverly Hillbilies car. For just in case. Don't tell Granny I am taking some of her rheumatism medicine. 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Friday, April 8, 2022 10:58 AM

BrandonK
Awesome, it looks like a wonder kit.

Thanks, Brandon. Yeah, overall - their kits are nice. They have sharp detail and in general, a good fit. 

It is funny because about a year back I decided to buy several of their offerings. I was breaking my normal operating procedure of not buying for just in case. In this case-- I did. I heard they were good kits and for fear of them going out of production--I decided to get them in advance. I never would have dreamed of this war scenario.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Friday, April 8, 2022 11:18 AM

oldermodelguy
he whole thing looks nice, Ford emblem, shell, cap and the black radiator. A clean antique look. As my dearly departed wife would have said " good job well done".

Thanks again, Dave. I appreciate your input. I am so glad this turned out. Especially, after stripping the paint and starting over. Doing that made things a little less nice. The paint stripper (Testors ELO) seemed to attack the plastic some. It gave it a rough surface and I had to clean that up and compensate for what I could not get at. That lead to other things, some loss of detail. I hate stripping paint. Invariably, it leads to some degree of degradation. But what the hey-- All's well that ends well!

BTW. Around 11:00 PM I went to the basement to check something.  I sat down- 3:30 AM I went to bed. Sleep And yes-- I was up for my job -- a little foggy.

I was a brave soul working on this so late. It usually does not end well for me when I am working through fatigue, but the stars must have aligned. I have the radiator mounted along with the front axile, and nothing broken. That will be an update for later. 

  • Member since
    July 2016
  • From: Malvern, PA
Posted by WillysMB on Friday, April 8, 2022 11:36 AM

The model T's did not have a pressurized cooling system, in fact they were built without a water pump relying on thermo-siphon cooling although you could purchase aftermarket water pumps. The Motometers were basically a fancy thermometer that read temperature off the airspace on top of the coolant. The flip top versions didn't come in until the late Model A, previous versions being screw on. Similarly, no oil pump relying on splash oiling (and lots of oil) until the Model A introduced one. Gas feed was by gravity, hence as long as the carburetor was below the tank, you were OK. Pre-1926, going up a steep enough hill would result in no fuel flow, so backing up a hill was usual practice. In 1927 the tank was moved to the cowl solving that problem until a fuel pump was finally introduced on the early V8's.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Friday, April 8, 2022 11:44 AM

WillysMB

The model T's did not have a pressurized cooling system, in fact they were built without a water pump relying on thermo-siphon cooling although you could purchase aftermarket water pumps. The Motometers were basically a fancy thermometer that read temperature off the airspace on top of the coolant. The flip top versions didn't come in until the late Model A, previous versions being screw on. Similarly, no oil pump relying on splash oiling (and lots of oil) until the Model A introduced one. Gas feed was by gravity, hence as long as the carburetor was below the tank, you were OK. Pre-1927, going up a steep enough hill would result in no fuel flow, so backing up a hill was usual practice. In 1927 the tank was moved to the cowl solving that problem until a fuel pump was finally introduced on the early V8's.

 

Wow! This is so interesting. Shaking my head about backing up a hill! LOL.

Thanks for posting this...

  • Member since
    July 2016
  • From: Malvern, PA
Posted by WillysMB on Friday, April 8, 2022 12:40 PM

Forgot to say just how beautiful this build is.

Couple more Model T tidbits:

The T's had two levers on the column, three pedals, a lever to the left of the driver and some had a lever to the right if they had an auxiliary transmission that added more gears called a Ruxtel or Planetar. There was also a knob in front of the passenger to adjust the carb mixture.

The left column lever adjusted the spark the right was the throttle. You always started with the spark full up, then brought it down to match the speed you wanted. The throttle adjusted speed, but you had to work both levers to get optimal performance.

The big lever to the left was half the clutch and to set the parking brake. Pulled fully back the brake was set and clutch disengaged. Straight up the brake was released and the clutch still disengaged. All the way forward the clutch partially engaged.

The pedals left to right were the other half of the clutch, reverse gear, and service brake. The service brake was a contracting band on the driveshaft, the parking brake an expanding unlined steel shoe on rear wheel drums.

Twisting the knob richened or leaned the mixture, pulling it out was a choke.

To start a Model T, you pulled the big lever all the way back, set the spark lever all the way up, the throttle lever down about half way, turned the mixture to slightly rich, and made sure the ignition was off. Go around to the front pull the wire attached to the choke lever out, and turn the engine a crank or two, go back and turn the ignition on, double check the position of the spark lever, go back around front and pull up on the crank with thumb outside the handle. Repeat as necessary until engine starts, then quickly run around and pull the spark lever halfway down before it quits. Failure to do any of the above could result in the dreaded "Ford break" broken arm.

As the engine warms up slowly lean the mixture until it runs smooth And enjoy the appreciative looks from your passengers.

To pull away, let the big lever come forward halfway, pull the spark down about two-thirds and adjust the throttle as you push down on the left pedal. Once moving and up to a fast walking pace, let the big lever come all the way forward and let the left pedal come all the way up and you're in high gear. Again enjoy the congratulatory remarks from you're passengers.

To stop, push the left pedal down until you feel the clutch disengage, move the throttle up, and press the right pedal. Allow plenty of stopping space, remember that brake is a contracting band around the driveshaft. In an emergency it was said you could tromp on all three pedals. Enjoy the relieved sighs from your passengers that you didn't hit the cow.

Some states required a special license to drive a Model T. Oh, and if it was raining you had to work the manual wiper by hand while doing everything else.

I have a 1917 Speedster and 1926 Touring Car in the shed out back.

 

  • Member since
    November 2018
Posted by oldermodelguy on Friday, April 8, 2022 12:46 PM

Back where I come from as a young kid there is a hill called Ladder Hill for obvious reasons it was steep. And it was actually my dad and mom who told me about Model Ts backing up that hill. My aunt skied those slopes back in the day ( my mothers sister). They had an unckle growing up with a Model T they called Blue Jay. It had the blue body and I assume black fenders of the day. My mom as a child contracted scarlet fever and  she rode in that T the 50+ miles to a Boston hospital in winter time. They had no heater, you could install an aftermarket shroud off the exhaust manifold that piped into the passengers area but it wasn't much use, especially with a roadster. Anyway they made it she survived till 57yo when she passed on from *** cancer. My aunt died a few years later of spinal cancer. Once diagnosed they both passed in about 3 months time.

Not many average folks had cars in the days my parents grew up in, plus the depression came along. But in my era most families had at least a used car. The first car I vaguely remember my dad having me on his lap letting me steer ( sort of) was a 35 Ford sedan. The next thing was a beast of a 1940 Oldsmobile sedan. And on it went from there.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Friday, April 8, 2022 2:39 PM

WillysMB--

firstly, thanks for the kudos.  Secondly, thanks for all you wrote! As I read this-- (smiling all the way through)-- I wondered how you knew all this. Then I get to the end and there it is... you own one. Lol. What an awesome read. 

I presume the cars you have are functional? I'd love to see pics-- but I understand why you wouldn't want to post them.

And this is what I love most about WIPs; The great stories and knowledge that come through them.  It's a banner day. Yes

  • Member since
    August 2021
Posted by goldhammer88 on Friday, April 8, 2022 2:44 PM

Goes to show how far the automobile and aircraft have come in the last century or so.

Won't be long before mankind will be declared obsolete.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Friday, April 8, 2022 2:52 PM

oldermodelguy

Back where I come from as a young kid there is a hill called Ladder Hill for obvious reasons it was steep. And it was actually my dad and mom who told me about Model Ts backing up that hill. My aunt skied those slopes back in the day ( my mothers sister). They had an unckle growing up with a Model T they called Blue Jay. It had the blue body and I assume black fenders of the day. My mom as a child contracted scarlet fever and  she rode in that T the 50+ miles to a Boston hospital in winter time. They had no heater, you could install an aftermarket shroud off the exhaust manifold that piped into the passengers area but it wasn't much use, especially with a roadster. Anyway they made it she survived till 57yo when she passed on from *** cancer. My aunt died a few years later of spinal cancer. Once diagnosed they both passed in about 3 months time.

Not many average folks had cars in the days my parents grew up in, plus the depression came along. But in my era most families had at least a used car. The first car I vaguely remember my dad having me on his lap letting me steer ( sort of) was a 35 Ford sedan. The next thing was a beast of a 1940 Oldsmobile sedan. And on it went from there.

 

Great Story, Dave. Sorry hearing the hardships of cancer and such. And WOW-- 50+ miles in the winter. Our generation has no concept of what life was like. I suppose this beats taking a horse???

I was born in 60, well past all of this. I recall my Dad had a red Lincoln, don't know the year. Shortly after was a modern Chevy station wagon to haul my parents brood. 

  • Member since
    July 2016
  • From: Malvern, PA
Posted by WillysMB on Saturday, April 9, 2022 11:40 AM

I'm glad you enjoyed the T-tails. Both of my T's are fully functional, but the speedster is a work in process. The Touring car has been on quite a few tours and will handle a 100 mile trip easily. They do require constant maintenance, which is why I tell prospective owners they have to like tinkering. I'll try to figure out how to post a picture.

I've never seen a manifold heater on a Model T, but we have a manifold cooker for the T which we use often and sits on the manifold. After a 50 mile tour one can enjoy a nice hot lunch. We do have a charcoal foot warmer but I'm afraid to try it out. The manifold heaters were pretty common on the Model A's and we have one in our Model A Town Sedan. Problem is they are either on or off so you either freeze or are sweating.

My Dad's first car was a Model T which he drove around the farm in Kansas. Dad was always a Buick man though.

One of our favorite side hobbies is collecting accessories for the T's and A's. The T's in particular were pretty bare bones; the bumpers, tops, windshield and spare tire (but not the wheel) were extra on the early T's. My wife collects era picnic items and we have dog carriers, trunks with fitted luggage, and extra cans of gas/oil/water to go on the running board of the T.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Saturday, April 9, 2022 1:18 PM

As mentioned in another post I installed the radiator and front axile assembly. The install went fairly well. My pre-paint test fitting paid off here. The kit gives a good base to go by, but you'd want to check those alignments early, particularly the radiator connections and even the fan blade. The fan blade squares up to the radiator closely, and I had to make some adjustments early on. And with the final install, I made sure the engine cover was in place to minimize gaps.

With all that said, this could have been a nightmare if the kit was not designed as well as it is. Thank goodness it lived up to my expectations.

Some images:

Since taking these images I have installed the steering linkages and muffler. 

At this point I want to install the wheels. This will be a slight challenge because tight tolerances and post paint make it so the wheels won't seat. Something needs to be sanded, and at this stage, it is a scary prospect with things being so delicate.

End of update.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Saturday, April 9, 2022 1:50 PM

WillysMB
I'm glad you enjoyed the T-tails. Both of my T's are fully functional, but the speedster is a work in process.

If I lived closer--I'd be asking to visit you. It would be a thrill to see these.

WillysMB
I'll try to figure out how to post a picture.

Cool...

 

WillysMB
My wife collects era picnic items and we have dog carriers, trunks with fitted luggage, and extra cans of gas/oil/water to go on the running board of the T.

What's funny is that the theme of my build is a Sunday picnic. I have not revealed that until now, but that is the image I have had in my head from the start. That will get fleshed out at the end of this build.

Your and others firsthand knowledge of these cars has been a thrill. I am sure others are learning from this too.

Thanks much for posting!

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Sunday, April 10, 2022 5:24 PM

Here is a dumb question for someone in the know. The front wheels on this kit seem to by design slant outward like as shown below. Is that how they were? Or is this something I need to fix on the model.

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Sunday, April 10, 2022 7:49 PM

Or maybe it is supposed to look like this...



Stick out tongue

 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Sunday, April 10, 2022 9:34 PM

That must be a race car.  Negative camber helps with cornering.  Not sure about the toe out!

Thanks,

John

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Monday, April 11, 2022 12:14 AM

keavdog

That must be a race car.  Negative camber helps with cornering.  Not sure about the toe out!

 

Interesting thought. Probably it.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Monday, April 11, 2022 12:16 AM

And sometimes the answer is right under your nose. 

Last page on the instructions. Sigh...

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Monday, April 11, 2022 8:21 AM

Hi!

 Yes! I think,(Don't quote Me) they had the noticeable camber because that actually made steering and tracking work better. On a horse drawn vehicle you didn't need that cause if anything the critters would just pull it around behind them no matter what.

  • Member since
    July 2016
  • From: Malvern, PA
Posted by WillysMB on Monday, April 11, 2022 10:32 AM

The T's had a pronounced camber very visible from the front and set by the angle of the king pins, hence not adjustable. Depending on the point of observation, a turning T can look very strange.

The slight toe-in was set by twisting the tie rod. Because so much of the tire is visible from the front, pictures often look like toe-out.

They also had a slight positive caster which was set by the the position of the front wishbone and adjusted by bending the axle for which a special tool (basically a massive wrench whose fingers wrapped around the axle) was provided to service departments, if you could find one. Everybody was a shade tree mechanic then and the cars came with quite a few tools to do so.

I love the saying today that old cars came with instructions on how to grind valves, today's cars tell you not to drink the battery acid.

The service manual for the T, not the owners manual, is what owners call the black book. With it one could completely take the car to pieces and reassemble it. Most of the T restoration shops carry reprints.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Monday, April 11, 2022 11:04 AM

Thanks John, TB, and Willys for responding. 

As the saying goes-- you learn something new everyday. I was not epecting this. It's cool ICM built that into the kit. 

WillysMB
I love the saying today that old cars came with instructions on how to grind valves, today's cars tell you not to drink the battery acid.

Lol. So true. 

Excellent insight you are provinding on the T, Willys. Thank you! 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Monday, April 11, 2022 11:26 AM

Bakster
Something needs to be sanded, and at this stage, it is a scary prospect with things being so delicate.

I guess I will share this with you all.

You have no idea how true this came to be and how close the project came to nuclear fist annihilation. As feared-- sanding created the perfect storm of destruction. It started with one end of the axile coming loose and ended with the entire front end coming off. The axile, radiator, steering linkages, even the fan blade laid bare. I was amazed at how quickly it happened. And--let me tell you-- I was being extremely careful. In retrospect-- I should have just tried filing out the wheel hubs. I didn't start there because I was afraid of damaging paint on the hubs/rims.

There was some damage in all this because the glue pulled some paint. Fortunately, it happened in areas not visable and I was able to repair the whole mess. It is back to near where it was. Phew. That was a really close call. 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Monday, April 11, 2022 10:30 PM

So far there are two things with this model that I was not crazy about. That said, two out many done right is not terrible. The first is noted below, the second I will note at another time.

The tires had a lot of flash and I tell ya, it was a bear to clean them up. I had an extra tire in the kit so I was able to practice on that. That was a blessing because I needed a sacrificial lamb. I destroyed the thing finding the best method.

I tried cutting the flash off, which it does not cut easily. And when it does cut-- you end up slicing more than you wanted to. Ultimately-- sanding them off with a sanding stick worked best. But-- not just any sanding stick-- the one shown in the image. I tried various sticks and/or including sanding paper, and they all tore at the rubber. It looked like H E L L. For some reason this stick had the right stuff and it didn't destroy it. 

The tires are mounted. Some things to note:

1. You can't see it in the images much because of how cameras alter images-- but-- I dirtied them up some using brown weathering power. If you look at the spare tire you can see how white that is in comparison. I didn't weather the spare. A Seinfeld reference.. Can you spare a square? Confused

2. The tires were sticky from the get-go, so--I sealed them in Testors Dullcote. This sealed in the weathering power and blended things some too. They look better after. How the Dullcote fares on rubber long term-- I do not know. I suppose I will find out over time. I don't expect an issue, but one never knows. I didn't overdo it so that might help.

3. The tires fit loosely on the rims and unless I wanted them moving around -- I needed to secure them. With the tires installed and from the backside-- I applied small amounts of super thin CA glue to the rim join. Capillary action channeled it around some and I used gravity to help by holding the tire vertically.

I did try matching the camber shown in the instruction. This is not a great angle to see that, but in future posts you will.

Probably more than you wanted to know.

End of update.

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