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NP drum kit in 1/12 scale WIP Update 8.28

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  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by namrednef on Sunday, January 20, 2008 9:09 PM

Jim.....that's the trouble.....so many things to try!

I've settled now on foil (just helping Steve find a way)....made a couple molds etc. Every medium is problematic though. I've spritzed a dark wash on various cymbal attempts and gotten a good look to them....but the subjects were too heavy for the scale.

Foil is nice because it's so maleable....but then it wrinkles when put in a mold....so you have to really lean on it to flatten the wrinkles.

Just having fun here.

Nam 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by namrednef on Sunday, January 20, 2008 8:47 PM

Steve.....I know you are a KM fan big time!.....but I'm of the same school.....funny you mention Stan Lynch....always been one of my favorites also. Why the hell did he quit Petty? I know he showed up somewhere else, but can't recall.

But my all timers are Ringo and CharlieBow [bow] Play anything....lay it down....one bass pedal

  • Member since
    February 2003
Posted by Jim Barton on Sunday, January 20, 2008 8:45 PM
 SteveM wrote:

Wow, Nam. I feel bad- you've put more into this than I have.

My new work schedule has slowed my hobby time to a near stand-still. Driving me nutso! I'll get back to it, I swear. Once we get rockin' on those cymbals, we could do Terry Bozzio's kit:

 

Jim, I'll look for that kit. Sounds funky. 

Steve

 

 

 

 

Now that's a drum kit and a half!Bow [bow]

Perhaps you could make a mold of the contour of a cymbal, then use .005 sheet styrene and a vacuum-form machine to mold the cymbals out of the styrene, then cover them with thin foil or even paint them. Perhaps careful color selection or some sort of wash technique might simulate the grooves. In 1/12 scale, .005 styrene might not be too thick.

Or what about the aluminum containers that you can sometimes find holding frozen or take-out meals? It would certainly be stiffer than kitchen foil, yet thin enough in 1/12 scale for cymbals. And you don't have to run all over the place trying to find a stiffener. 

"Whaddya mean 'Who's flying the plane?!' Nobody's flying the plane!"

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: AusTx, Live Music Capitol of the World
Posted by SteveM on Sunday, January 20, 2008 5:57 PM

Fly us to Jupiter with that kit...

Bozzio is stunning, but I'm into much simpler drummers like Keith MoonBig Smile [:D] And Stan Lynch (ex-Heartbreakers), Ringo... steady-beaters who play to the song. 

Steve

 

Steve M.

On the workbench: ginormous Kharkov dio

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by namrednef on Sunday, January 20, 2008 2:00 PM

Well, a couple drummer friends (whom I sent a link to) say Bozzio is the closest ever to a one man percussion band....but looking at that pic....I don't know whether to lay on it, play on it, or eat it.

 

Keeping things cymbal,

Nam 

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: AusTx, Live Music Capitol of the World
Posted by SteveM on Sunday, January 20, 2008 11:19 AM
Ain't that drum kit a waste of time??!!

Steve M.

On the workbench: ginormous Kharkov dio

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by namrednef on Sunday, January 20, 2008 8:49 AM

Hi Steve!

Actually I thought I might be dropping the ball on this one! You just take your time on a great project.

I have a cymbal 'curing' right now....using a clear silicone coating.....I know it won't be 100% correct because I'll have to find a good release agent for the mold....but whatever part of the piece survives will let me know what to try next.

So right now it's: regular old tinfoil....tinted with strong vinegar. After all the exotic attempts.....simplest is best!

I don't spend hours over this.....I'm so behind anyway....a couple hours a couple times a week. But it is an engineering challenge (which I love)

Keep working and do not show anymore pics of the Bozzio kit!

Nam 

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: AusTx, Live Music Capitol of the World
Posted by SteveM on Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:54 AM

Wow, Nam. I feel bad- you've put more into this than I have.

My new work schedule has slowed my hobby time to a near stand-still. Driving me nutso! I'll get back to it, I swear. Once we get rockin' on those cymbals, we could do Terry Bozzio's kit:

 

Jim, I'll look for that kit. Sounds funky. 

Steve

 

 

 

Steve M.

On the workbench: ginormous Kharkov dio

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by namrednef on Saturday, January 19, 2008 7:59 AM

Based upon previous posts:

I have tried various types of foil....and the thinnest aluminum, copper and brass sheet that can be had.

IMO....for cymbals that look real and to scale....it must be a foil.....but has to be coated with some kind of clear 'stiffener'.....any stiffener I've tried dries unevenly and makes the cymbal 'wavy', and cracks off when I try to straighten it.

But I'm working on it 

  • Member since
    February 2003
Posted by Jim Barton on Friday, January 18, 2008 9:37 PM

Gad, SteveM, I can't believe it's been more than a month since I last perused finescale.com. Where does the time go? My apologies for taking so long to reply!Sign - Oops [#oops]

Anyway, it wasn't those drums. This kit had a single bass drum and the odd console the toms and cymbals were mounted on was a C-shaped thing. Palmer sat inside the C with the small toms on the bottom of the C (that is, to the drummer's left) and larger toms on the top of the C. The cymbals (five of them) were also mounted on this C-shaped console. The bass drum was on the left side of the C, or in the usual spot from the drummer's perspective.

Hope this helps you picture it a bit better, and once again, my apologies. How's your Neil Peart drum set coming?

"Whaddya mean 'Who's flying the plane?!' Nobody's flying the plane!"

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: AusTx, Live Music Capitol of the World
Posted by SteveM on Wednesday, December 5, 2007 5:01 PM

These?

 

 

 

 

Steve M.

On the workbench: ginormous Kharkov dio

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
Posted by Jim Barton on Wednesday, December 5, 2007 7:20 AM
 SteveM wrote:

Jim,

 

If you get some time, you should scan that Carl Palmer kit and post it here. I knw about the St/ Steel shells, but can't recall the mounting hardware. Got me curious.

 

Steve

 

Unfortunately, I don't have that kind of equipment on my computer. With a little luck, perhaps one of our fellow drummers might have a picture of the kit and post it. I wonder what the drums would sound like with such shells.

 

 

"Whaddya mean 'Who's flying the plane?!' Nobody's flying the plane!"

  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: Boston MA
Posted by vespa boy on Tuesday, December 4, 2007 7:22 AM
Steve this is a really nice build. Really great to see something different like this. Hats off to you.

http://public.fotki.com/nkhandekar

This ain't no Mudd Club, or C.B.G.B.,
I ain't got time for that now

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: AusTx, Live Music Capitol of the World
Posted by SteveM on Sunday, December 2, 2007 8:55 AM

Jim,

 

If you get some time, you should scan that Carl Palmer kit and post it here. I knw about the St/ Steel shells, but can't recall the mounting hardware. Got me curious.

 

Steve

 

 

Steve M.

On the workbench: ginormous Kharkov dio

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
Posted by Jim Barton on Sunday, December 2, 2007 8:23 AM
 SteveM wrote:
 namrednef wrote:

 tackling the tougher one will make others that much easier.

 Nam 

Bonzo Bonham- not sure if they were called vistalite back then

 

Moon the Loon

Pictures of Lily kit; not his most indulgent, but by far his most beautiful.

How about a motorized, spinning drum platform for the Tommy Lee uber-stupid drum castle?

 

I recently finished The Drum Book: A History of the Rock Drum Kit by Geoff Nichols, which has numerous pictures of historic drum kits, including John Bonham's Amber Vistalite kit. The drums were made by Ludwig in the 1970's in half a dozen colors: clear, yellow, amber, red, blue and green as well as rainbow stripes. Ludwig even made the Tivoli drums with tiny lights inside!

Here's a drum challenge for you, SteveM: The book also pictures Carl Palmer's custom stainless steel kit from about 1975 with unusual consoles for holding the drums and cymbal stands. A jeweller engraved pictures on each drum, "...from field mice on the 6" drum to a horse and cart on the 18"...".

"Whaddya mean 'Who's flying the plane?!' Nobody's flying the plane!"

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by namrednef on Saturday, November 24, 2007 4:46 PM

With the Tommy Lee kit.....as a tribute.....you might make a motorized turntable.....scratchbuild a kiddie drumkit with the South Seas palm tree thing on the bass front....y'know where everything in the kit is attached to the bass drum.....then put 4 million cymbals around it!

 I think everyone would get the jokeWhistling [:-^]

 Your possibilities at this point are endless......now if you could just win the lottery 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by namrednef on Saturday, November 24, 2007 4:38 PM

 

 OOH-FAH!......The Bonzo kit should be easy for you after NP.....but you might need to talk to a tattoo artist if you ever want to do the Moon kit. What an awesome photo.......thanks.

 I'll happily post any useful info I see....(or dream up) if you don't mind. 

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: AusTx, Live Music Capitol of the World
Posted by SteveM on Saturday, November 24, 2007 12:20 PM
 namrednef wrote:

 tackling the tougher one will make others that much easier.

 Nam 

Bonzo Bonham- not sure if they were called vistalite back then

 

Moon the Loon

Pictures of Lily kit; not his most indulgent, but by far his most beautiful.

How about a motorized, spinning drum platform for the Tommy Lee uber-stupid drum castle?

Steve M.

On the workbench: ginormous Kharkov dio

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by namrednef on Saturday, November 24, 2007 10:03 AM

 

 You are a hoot!

 Yeah.....panty hose shell....great idea!

 I'm not familiar with Bonzo's kit.....is Vistalite a plexi type see-thru drum? Man! You could model a famous set of those so easily with the availability of clear tubing!

 I know Phil Collins used a clear set.....but his biggest distinction isn't that of a drummer.....that idiot from Motley Crue has used see-thru also.

 Sheesh! You may have hit on a cottage industry that the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame could be interested in. Think about that.

 Yup.....I'll take the time and design and build some dies for you.....Happy to take a small part in your project. YOU need to make the actual cymbals though to keep the whole project yours. I'll do some tests and pass along what I find.....you have your hands full with the drums and stands as it is.

 I ran into a friend just last night whose family owns a CNC machine shop and he would gladly make permanent dies of whatever material you wish.....steel, aluminum, polymeric resins. But as with any 'favor'.....I will probably have to keep on him down the road. If it fits your time frame....it can be done. I'm confident of that.

 Wintertime is my 'down' time when I can turn attention to hobbies and such.....and as a musician (and Beatles, Rush fan) I am excited about your project. 

 I'll get to work and get info on where to ship later. 

 Plus......there is a bunch of paint wizards here, as you know. Someone will figure a way to replicate Ringo's Ludwig paint job.....but take care of NP first......tackling the tougher one will make others that much easier.

 

Nam 

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: AusTx, Live Music Capitol of the World
Posted by SteveM on Saturday, November 24, 2007 1:12 AM

Nam, if you're inspired by this, I will not try to stop you. Dyin' to see what you come up with (that punnyBig Smile [:D])

I should have just started with Ringo's kit, I'd be done by now. Harder paint job, tho. The ultimate challange will be Bonzo's Vistalites. But I already think that half of a Legg's pantyhose egg shell could work for his timpani. 

Steve 

Steve M.

On the workbench: ginormous Kharkov dio

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by namrednef on Thursday, November 22, 2007 2:51 PM

 

 Hi Steve....

 Yeah, former garage band drummer.....now guitarist/guitar builder....I suppose I could model a famous guitar and post it here....hmmmm, just thought of that!

 No...the whole idea was about your build...I was just so impressed. I have sent a link to your photos to a younger friend that is a drummer (ahem...heavy metal), but a musician nonetheless. With all the work you're doing....heck, it needs to be right.

 Yes...make just a couple male molds....so you have a backup.....and make your cymbals from largest to smallest so the scoring marks don't conflict.

 I have a Tropicana 12oz OJ every morning before work....and Wednesday I was just standing around with the guys and I felt the dent in the bottle bottom and a light bulb went off. (I had been thinking about the cymbal problem).

 Tell you what.....You have your work cut out just making the drums....let me research and make you some dies....I have ideas about how to do it....just didn't want to flood you with everything at once. Let me try the die part and you 'make' the cymbals.

 ...and NP with the energy.....I love modelmaking and I have an engineering degree I rarely put to use! (see my topic about oil seal springs being used as hoses in 'Techniques' Cool [8D]

 Good luck and get to work!

....and yes....future sets...especially Ringo's may benefit! 

 

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: AusTx, Live Music Capitol of the World
Posted by SteveM on Thursday, November 22, 2007 9:16 AM

Nam-

This is brilliant, simply amazing. Sorry that the world lost out on the original post. Thanks for putting so much thought, time and effort into this. Have you been thinking of doing the same thing, or is this all just for lil' ole me Blush [:I]

I am impressed that you have thought about the profile of a cymbal...  " not things that look like hats on rice paddy workers." Exactly!... one of the things that has got me stalled out. You must be a drummer, too.

"Look at the bottom of soda/juice bottles.....especially Tropicana 12oz OJ... "  I've looked at the bottom of that very brand's bottle one every morning this at 6 am, never, ever occurred... that's weird

Yeah, seems like lots of work for all the different cymbals ( off the top of my head, I think Neil's 80's kit had about, oh... 11 or 12?) BUT, I probably only need to form half the number of molds for as many cymbals on the kit. He had: 2 x 13" (hi hats), 2 x 16", so on. Plus, once I have the dies, I could make all the cymbals I wanted for future drum kits. So it's only a big effort initially.

It's gonna take two or three reads of your post to wrap my pea-brain around this, but I truly think that you're on to something.

Thanks again, Nam, for the energy you put into this.  

Steve 

Steve M.

On the workbench: ginormous Kharkov dio

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by namrednef on Thursday, November 22, 2007 8:20 AM

Okay Steve....here we go again.

I swear, I wrote an entertaining book a few hours ago. Can't do that again....just going to meat and potatoes.

 I'm an experienced machinist.....forget a lathe for making things you need in 1/12th. Nasa might have a lathe for you.....but......

 You need the 'bell' on the cymbal and maybe a slight parabola or arc on the cymbal profile (depending on NP's cymbals)....and not things that look like hats on rice paddy workers.

 You need to make some plaster or resin dies (preferrably resin).

 Look at the bottom of soda/juice bottles.....especially Tropicana 12oz OJ.....you can mold from that and file/sand high spots from there....and it will form a bell.

 This will give you a 'male' die.....forming the 'female' die just requires putting a barrier over the male....tin foil....maybe vaseline....and finding a way (that's up to you) of using resin to mold a female counterpart (which will need some filling and sanding, no doubt).

 Hole saws, wing bits et al will rip and tear the thin stock you need to use.

 Once you find a gold colored foil or thin stock, you need only to place it between your two resin dies and trace around it with a very sharp blade. You will obviously need to make dies for each size cymbal you need. Lotta work. Try to leave a 'flange' on the bottom of your 'male' dies to have something to cut against with your blade.

 But pop/juice bottle bottoms are the best/quickest thing I've seen to replicate the shapes you need....(and I've been thinking on this a long time).....check glass....plastic etc.

...Also....as you will need very thin stock to form cymbals.....you should 'coat' the bottom sides with something to stiffen them. Plus.....you should lightly score the metal in circles with some light sand paper before molding the cymbals.

 That's pretty much it minus the laffs and B.S. I added to my aborted post. Man that broke my heart. I put a lot of thought into this.

PS: Don't get caught looking at too many bottle bottoms! 

 

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: AusTx, Live Music Capitol of the World
Posted by SteveM on Thursday, November 22, 2007 5:45 AM

Hey Nam, love to hear what ou got.

Steve 

 

Steve M.

On the workbench: ginormous Kharkov dio

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by namrednef on Thursday, November 22, 2007 4:25 AM

I think I have solved the cymbal trouble.....server went.....nice......the whole post went in toilet.

 

E-mailed SteveM......if he likes it, I will try to recreate the post. 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: South Central Wisconsin
Posted by Daywalker on Monday, November 19, 2007 11:46 PM

 Jim Barton wrote:

Sounds like my model tornado chase vehicle. Sometimes I'll spend seemingly weeks on one or two small parts, especially something that requires a lot of filling and sanding, filling and sanding some more, filling and sanding some more, ad nauseum. More recently, it's a little camera tripod that's been giving me headaches.

Jim,

Now there's an original idea!  I would love to see pics of that myself.  Hopefully, you've been a good boy so Santa brings you a camera! Propeller [8-]

Frank 

 

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: AusTx, Live Music Capitol of the World
Posted by SteveM on Saturday, November 17, 2007 6:23 AM

Jim, haven't you asked Santa?

 

 

Steve M.

On the workbench: ginormous Kharkov dio

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
Posted by Jim Barton on Thursday, November 15, 2007 9:10 PM
 SteveM wrote:

Jim, I'm looking forward to seeing that project of yours.

Steve 

I'm hopefully going to buy a digital camera when I get some extra money for the holidays, then if I can figure things out, I'll try to post some pictures.

"Whaddya mean 'Who's flying the plane?!' Nobody's flying the plane!"

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Lubbock, TX
Posted by MrDrummy on Monday, November 5, 2007 2:49 PM

Wow!! Look at that!  Very nice looking drumset! 

That's definitely something I've never thought about doing!  I guess that I get a little worn out tearing down and setting up the 1:1 versions all the time! 

-Justin
On the Bench: 1:48 Dragon Dr. 1 1:48 Trumpeter MiG-15 Fagot B Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket
  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: AusTx, Live Music Capitol of the World
Posted by SteveM on Sunday, November 4, 2007 7:20 AM

Jim, I'm looking forward to seeing that project of yours.

Steve 

Steve M.

On the workbench: ginormous Kharkov dio

 

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