AREA 51 DIORAMA!!!!!! Is it possiable to make a model levetate? Using magnets?

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

AREA 51 DIORAMA!!!!!! Is it possiable to make a model levetate? Using magnets?

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, October 24, 2005 12:35 AM

This is going to be one of the first Dioramas I plan on doing!!! It is going to have a 1/48 scale S4 ufo in the middle of a test flight like it is about to take off. I noticed that Revell came out with a line of model kits that use a magnetic levitation technology that allows an aircraft model to appear like its flying! but how many magnets are in ther kit and how powerful do they need to be? I've got other questions to ask about how to do a diorama cause Ive never did one before and I think That the S4 ufo would be perfect for this diorama!!!

I also would like to know if anyone has ever done a diorama similar to what I'm planning to doinvolving magnets like to make Their Star Treck models levetate?

I need any info I can get my hands on! I'm planning on getting the model kit soon and plan to start the diorama on Christmas Break! So no need to rush.

Thanks,
Erik

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maxx1969

Member since
May 2004
From: Oregon

Posted by maxx1969 on Monday, October 24, 2005 12:50 AM

Not sure what it would take to lift that kit off the ground. Even without all the interior detail its a big kit. The aircraft kits you are talking about are 144th scale so they are small, light, and are tethered to the base with clear filament lines (3 of them I belive). According too Bob Lazar the Area 51UFO causes a distortion around the bottom of the craft as it flys so maybe an clear acrylic rod or something of that nature would work if all else fails with the magnets.

Sound like a really cool idea though and would look great. The only other in flight UFO I've seen was suspended by clear rod painted to look like some kind of ray.

~Matt T Meyer

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, October 24, 2005 3:04 AM

Yes, it would work, but rather than using simple magnets you might need to experiment with electro magnets or electro magnetic coils in the base.
Be warned though too much voltage and they do get WARM.

The revell kits use a big ring magnet in the base and a smaller solid magnet in the plane. Remember the old school experiemtn where you put 2 ring magnets trhoguh a wooden rod and the top one hovers(kinda like that.)

If it wouldn't interfere with the lighting might be fun to make Busch UFO hover(flight and flashing lights = yummy) plus they got some aliens in the kit too.

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Fish-Head Aric

Member since
September 2005
From: Chehalis, WA

Posted by Fish-Head Aric on Monday, October 24, 2005 12:21 PM

I remember Taco Bell with their hovering magnetic Star Wars toys a few years ago. have also seen other hovering magnetic toys in the OMSI (Portland, OR) and Pacific Science Center (Seattle) gift stores.

I think a large ring magnet in the ground/base, with a smaller magnet centered precisely in the base of the UFO model might work. The key thing with these magnetic floaters is symmetry, balance, level surfaces, and stability. If anything is off-kilter you might have a wobbler, or a model wanting to fly off and crash.

~Aric Fisher aric_001@hotmail.com

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, October 24, 2005 2:21 PM

hehehe, this sounds fun!!! personally i would go with a ring magnet in the base and a small magnet in the plane/ufo. will you post some pics when you've finished it? Dan

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Fish-Head Aric

Member since
September 2005
From: Chehalis, WA

Posted by Fish-Head Aric on Monday, October 24, 2005 5:33 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by DROF88

hehehe, this sounds fun!!! personally i would go with a ring magnet in the base and a small magnet in the plane/ufo. will you post some pics when you've finished it? Dan

I have the little Egg Space Shuttle kit coming soon. Maybe I'll try something with it. I know it's not balanced or anything, but who knows? Tear apart an old stereo speaker for magnets, etc...

~Aric Fisher aric_001@hotmail.com

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, October 24, 2005 10:54 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by DROF88

hehehe, this sounds fun!!! personally i would go with a ring magnet in the base and a small magnet in the plane/ufo. will you post some pics when you've finished it? Dan

Heck yeah!!!! I'm Going all out on this model kit!!!!! I'm putting the best effort I can Into it!!!! It's going to have a ground crew observing the ufo and It will probably be the size of my desk (or a small size train-like layout) it's going to have small spot lights around the Heli or (ufo pad) Big Smile [:D]

He! HE! HE! and will have military personel observing it take off!!! I origionally planed on doing a 1/72 scale Area51 Base layout from sattilite pictures and panorama photographs, but I won't be able to build that until I'm In my own house with possiably a Backyard Green House to display the thing in along with all of my 1/72 scale stealth Aircraft models hanging from the cealing!!!!! I plan on doing that when I'm past 50years old and when (If I pass away over 100+yrs old will donate it to the Wright Patterson Airforce Museum as an exhibit) That is if I'm able to finish it with my friends!!! and if they would want it!!! I love building spyplanes early experimental aircraft and even aircraft that don't really exist!!!!! I love Hypersonic aircraft the most though!!!! Followed by Stealth!!!!!! Like the origional Stealth Aircragft!!! the U-2 SPYPLANE!!!!!!

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, October 24, 2005 11:08 PM

I get alot of stero speaker magnets from behind my local TV repair center!!!!! I've found 5 Prefect Bose Acoustimass Speakers and they were in perfect condition!!!! I have so many speakers my dad made me get rid of some of them!!! I have many magnets!!! My neighbor is a carpenter and he is helping me make a base!!! with a false bottom to hide the electronics, and the ring magnets!!! I just will have to wait till I'm outta collage for spring break or wait till Thanksgiving break to Begin working on the base for the diorama while sitting at my desk downstairs as I'm listing to the Thanksgiving parade on Tv!!! WOAH WHAT A RUN-ON SENTENCE!!!!

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, October 24, 2005 11:11 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fish-Head Aric

QUOTE: Originally posted by DROF88

hehehe, this sounds fun!!! personally i would go with a ring magnet in the base and a small magnet in the plane/ufo. will you post some pics when you've finished it? Dan

I have the little Egg Space Shuttle kit coming soon. Maybe I'll try something with it. I know it's not balanced or anything, but who knows? Tear apart an old stereo speaker for magnets, etc...

I would first test it on a cheap model kit instesd of the egg plane first cause I wouldn't want to ruin one of those kits cause they are expensive!!!! unless you have some old model kits that are in your scrap box to test it out on first??

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, October 24, 2005 11:34 PM

I posted this discussion in the dioramas section to get more feedback!!!! I'll still be checking up on these posts!

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Fish-Head Aric

Member since
September 2005
From: Chehalis, WA

Posted by Fish-Head Aric on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 2:57 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by Erik Bultz
I would first test it on a cheap model kit instesd of the egg plane first cause I wouldn't want to ruin one of those kits cause they are expensive!!!! unless you have some old model kits that are in your scrap box to test it out on first??

Actually, the kit I got may well have been the last one available online via retail sale. I got it for $12.95 US, plus shipping, from a space toys website. When I had found it I wrote the site and was told It was the last one in stock there. I bought it immediately and it disappeared from the website altogether.

So, no, this little thing was NOT a big-ticket item. And while I only ordered it on Thursday, I already got it delivered and tore into the package to check it out last night!

~Aric Fisher aric_001@hotmail.com

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djrost_2000

Member since
February 2003
From: Where the coyote howl, NH

Posted by djrost_2000 on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 5:27 PM

Could you keep the saucer centered over the dio with magnetic force alone? With the Revell magnet kits they use a monofilament string to keep it from wandering too far. I wonder if you could keep this centered with magnetic force alone?

Dave

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 5:51 PM

If you create a potential well i.e. "bowl" of force, the model should settle to the bottom of the "bowl". You might consider neodymium magnets in your base.
Hope that helps.

Brian Willard
Astrophysics Grad Student
New Mexico Tech

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 6:01 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by zaphod

If you create a potential well i.e. "bowl" of force, the model should settle to the bottom of the "bowl". You might consider neodymium magnets in your base.
Hope that helps.

Brian Willard
Astrophysics Grad Student
New Mexico Tech

neodymium magnets
Where do I get those Question [?]

I have been busy today cause I was able to get my first job!!!!!!!!!! Yeah!! [yeah]

I haven't been able to conduct a test with a frisbee yet. It should be just as heavy as the model! I'm planning on puttin coils like a smaller circle inside of a larger circle!!! like a coil but the magnets are not connected. You think this may work!! I have to go out and buy the larger magnets though in order to do this test!!! Where can I buy the best ring magnets at Question [?]

a Ace Hardware, Home Depote, or Lowes Question [?]

where can i get the best and most powerful ring magnets at Question [?]

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 11:07 PM

Give American Science and Surplus a shot. They have lots of strong magnets for cheap, and I hear the service is amazing.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 11:44 PM

I'm going out magnet shopping at Lowes, Home Depote, Michales, Jo-anne Fabrics and the local hardware stores to get the best price I can get!!!! I'm buying a over a couple of different sizes, and of powerful ring magnets, NeoDynium magnets, (don't know if tha is how it's spelt!), and will look for the rare earth magnets!!! I'm going to do some experiments tomarrow with them and I'm Using them on a frisbee first to test for strength and to make sure I have the best ones and ones that I can work with and plae insid the base of the model!!! I just want to get a magnet powerful enough to lift up the model and not anything else that is metal around the diorama. I plan on keeping the recipts!

Thanks guys for your help!! I may need some more!!!

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:00 AM

One word of warning.

Be careful what goes between the magnets on the Dio/Base, some stuff/putties will disrupt the magnetic field.

So best to your tests first as planned and than start playing around with placing different materials(various thicknesses) between the magnets to see how it will affect things.

On test I learned from a mechanic friend is to use a magnet(key ring) to look for unseen bodywork, run the magnet over the surface and it won't stick where automotive putty was used. Approve [^]

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:32 AM

I'm buying some frisbees of equivalet siz and weight to test the magnets first. I'm thinking of using silicone to glue the magnets to the frisbee. Does anyone this is pratical and would work Question [?]

If it would work then what kind of silicone, or other adhesive should I use that would safely keep the magnets from coming loose in the model, or in this case the frisbee test Question [?]

I need an adhesive that has a strong bond, and that won't make the plastic of the model become soft or will allow the magnets to come loose? I don't plan on usin putty for various reasons
1. It drys up and will In years time start to crack, and fall apart and the bond will become weak!

Does anybody approve of this Question [?]

Does anybody know of any good, strong, or safe adhesives that will hold the magnets in place Question [?]

I plan on using small magnets. mostly disk, ring, or doughnut magnets.

Thanks Guys,
Erik Question [?]

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Fish-Head Aric

Member since
September 2005
From: Chehalis, WA

Posted by Fish-Head Aric on Thursday, October 27, 2005 3:19 PM

hmm... I know something that might work, but not sure how well it does on plastic. JP Weld is something that goes from a sticky putty consistency to being hard as a rock, and don't think anything easily intimidates it. You mix 2 different putties together per directions to get the bonding/hardening compound, then apply it to your surfaces and let set.

I used it to patch a hole in a gas tank on a car I had once. Made a big lump and plastered it over the hole, and after a time it was rock-solid. Not something I would normally consider in model building, but just sorta came to minde.

So, it does bond to metal for sure, and likely will bond to a magnet as well, but dunno if it is bad for plastic. Definitely not going to deteriorate with time though.

You can get it at most auto parts or hardware stores I think. And it's pretty cheap, a couple dollars for more than you could ever need for this project.

~Aric Fisher aric_001@hotmail.com

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, October 27, 2005 7:50 PM

I'm planning on using a car battery if I need to make the magnet more powerful!!! This is a project that I had no intention of using AC Outlets! And Besides I had two electronics classes in High School, and I am currently taking my first class in collage!!!! So I know what I'm doing! My teacher said that He would assist me with my project after class if I intend on using the battery! Including circuitry!!! So Actually there is nothing to worry about except for the whole project being a flop!!!!!!!

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, October 27, 2005 8:37 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by Zen_Builder

One word of warning.

Be careful what goes between the magnets on the Dio/Base, some stuff/putties will disrupt the magnetic field.

So best to your tests first as planned and than start playing around with placing different materials(various thicknesses) between the magnets to see how it will affect things.

On test I learned from a mechanic friend is to use a magnet(key ring) to look for unseen bodywork, run the magnet over the surface and it won't stick where automotive putty was used.

What about using plaster to hold the magnets Question [?]

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, October 27, 2005 10:11 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by Erik Bultz
What about using plaster to hold the magnets

Too much srinkage while drying, also it tends to crumble and breakup if not mixed properly or knocked about, plus it is not resitant to humidity buildup.
Best bet, IMO, would be the type of silicone or acrylic that they use to glue aquariums together. The stuff has got a certain amount of flex and in the worst cas ecan be pulled apart again.

Remember you DON'T want to cover or surround the magnets with much material as it will affect the magnetic field, of course you simply could add extra juice to boost the field. Wink [;)]

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kylwell

Member since
May 2003
From: United States

Posted by kylwell on Friday, October 28, 2005 1:52 AM

Keychain magnets are just plain week and if you run more than a fraction of an inch they don't have enough umpf to grab with. Neobium magnets on the other hand can pinch skin hard enough to cause a blister. Very strong (depending on the quality). A god Neo magnet can grab from an inch away with enough force that you can't directly pull it off the metal.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Friday, October 28, 2005 2:38 AM

No disagreement here, but I am worried that they might be a bit too strong.

He might get better luck using 4 flat magnets in the base rather than a ring magnet is this way he could "box" the 5 magnet(in the model) in, this might also eliminate the need for wires. Plus the 4 base magnets could be smaller and any shape(except spherical)

Either way he will have to play with the weight of the UFO a LOT I guess.
Too light and it flies off, too heavy and it won't hover either at all or at very low "atlitude".

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, October 31, 2005 7:59 PM

The Frisbee technique worked!!!!!! Without the wires and did not go fling off of the base!!!!!!! However I'm still looking for a place to by some of the rare Earth Magnets! I have been to a few arts and crafts places, but all of the magents that they carry are to week and could only lift the frisbee off of the ground 3inches. I'm going to a few electronics shops in my area and one of them is a warehouse. I need all of the luck to get myself some magnets that have over 5lbs. of pull or higher. So far the plans are going smoothly!!!!!!!!!!!! Wish me luck guys on finding the right kind, size, magnets!!!!

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cthulhu77

Member since
January 2003
From: arizona

Posted by cthulhu77 on Tuesday, November 1, 2005 7:48 AM

How odd...I am working on virtually the same project ! Doing a fair amount of research, I found this place, and they have been really helpful with technical information about lifting the finished model according to weight, etc...
Looking forward to seeing yours done ! (mine is at least a year away)
greg
Here's their address:
http://www.gaussboys.com/

http://www.ewaldbros.com

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Hippy-Ed

Member since
December 2004
From: Stockton,Ca

Posted by Hippy-Ed on Tuesday, November 1, 2005 1:11 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by cthulhu77

How odd...I am working on virtually the same project ! Doing a fair amount of research, I found this place, and they have been really helpful with technical information about lifting the finished model according to weight, etc...
Looking forward to seeing yours done ! (mine is at least a year away)
greg
Here's their address:
http://www.gaussboys.com/

LoL... not another one!![:0] Clown [:o)]

If you lose your sense of humor, you've lost everything

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 1, 2005 6:38 PM

LoL... not another one!![:0] Clown [:o)]

I like to experiment, and make my models more realistic, detailed! I like the challange and I like to put alot of work into my models! Isn't part of modeling called being creative Smile [:)]

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