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Old Ironsides - Revisiting the classic Revell 1/96 kit

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  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Wednesday, November 14, 2012 10:50 PM

F9,

As always I am in awe.  I learn so much just seeing what you can do with styrene.  Looking forward to the camboose!

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
Posted by Jim Barton on Wednesday, November 21, 2012 9:41 PM

I've got that old kit in my closet myself. Goodness knows when or even IF I'll get around to building the darned thing!

Nice job on the new brake pumps!

"Whaddya mean 'Who's flying the plane?!' Nobody's flying the plane!"

  • Member since
    June 2010
  • From: Irvine, CA
Posted by Force9 on Thursday, November 29, 2012 10:28 PM

Thanks Jim for the complimentary remarks... I am pleased with the brake pumps (much better than I thought I'd be able to manage with my limited skills).

On to the next step:

The Camboose

Aside from the guns, the last major component for the gun deck is the ship’s stove – historically referred to on the Constitution as the Camboose.

From Wikipedia:

Railroad historian David L. Joslyn (a retired Southern Pacific Railroad draftsman) has connected "caboose" to kabhuis, a Middle Dutch word referring to the compartment on a sailing ship's main deck in which meals were prepared. Kabhuis is believed to have entered the Dutch language circa 1747 as a derivation of the obsolete Low German word Kabhuse, which also described a cabin erected on a ship's main deck. However, further research indicates this relationship was more indirect than that described by Joslyn.

Eighteenth century French naval records make reference to a cambose or camboose, which described the food preparation cabin on a ship's main deck, as well as the range within. The latter sense apparently entered American naval terminology around time of the construction of the USS Constitution, whose wood-burning food preparation stove is officially referred to as the camboose. [4] These nautical usages are now obsolete: camboose and kabhuis became the galley when meal preparation was moved below deck, camboose, the stove, became the galley range, and kabhuis the cookshack morphed into kombuis, which means kitchen in Afrikaans and Dutch.

It is likely that camboose was borrowed by American sailors who had come into contact with their French counterparts during the American Revolution (recall that France was an ally and provided crucial naval support during the conflict). A New English Dictionary citation from the 1940s indicates camboose entered English language literature in a New York Chronicle article from 1805 describing a New England shipwreck, in which it was reported that "[Survivor] William Duncan drifted aboard the canboose [sic]."[3] From this, it could be concluded that camboose was part of American English by the time the first railroads were constructed. As the first cabooses were wooden shanties erected on flat cars (as early as the 1830s,[5]) they would have resembled the cook shack on the (relatively flat) deck of a ship, explaining the adoption and subsequent corruption of the nautical term.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caboose

The camboose is probably not too difficult to create using styrene and wire, but it turns out that I had the opportunity to cheat a bit with an aftermarket version.

An oft repeated lament is the fact that the explosion/proliferation of aftermarket Photo etched brass does not include sets for the common plastic sailing ships. This seems especially strange considering the proven popularity of kits like the 1/96 Revell Constitution. You’d think it’d be a no brainer for a PE company to put together a set that includes the hammock cranes, eyelets, and various other small pieces that would benefit from finer detail. (Maybe even throw in a laser cut wood veneer deck kit.) It is a real head-scratcher…

But it turns out that one company DOES, in fact, offer a PE set for the 1/96 Constitution… And not just any company, but the leading model ship company in the USA - The good folks at Bluejacket Shipcrafters (http://www.bluejacketinc.com/kits/ussconstitution.htm). Their PE set is a subset of their terrific 1/8” scale Constitution kit and it is not listed in their catalog, but if you give them a call and pitifully beg them, they’ll sell you the PE set as a standalone item. Well… truth be told, you don’t really have to beg. They are very nice and are happy to part with a set as long as they have enough spares on hand. Call and ask for Suzi (or Lisa) and tell her I sent you – if she doesn’t slam the phone down right away, then you’ll probably be in luck. You can also email them a request at info@bluejacketinc.com. (Reference Part No.s BJ-31, BJ-57) Bluejacket doesn’t make their own PE (they farm it out to a subcontractor), but it is very high quality and is a bit thicker than other PE sets I’ve used. The set is sold in two sheets (you have to purchase both) and includes a camboose as well as the hammock cranes and other goodies. There are also some gratings and an entire plate for the stern that the wooden kit utilizes.

The hammock cranes are of particular interest to me – really the reason I went after this PE. The kit provided ones are clunky looking and easily broken. I had thought to utilize brass micro tubing and the small Jotika eyelets to replace these, but stumbling upon these PE versions will save me many units of effort and ultimately provide a much nicer replacement. Utilizing these PE hammock cranes is many steps farther down the line in my build, but I did want to show folks this option sooner than later so that those who are doing similar builds can add these to Santa’s list (along with the 1/200 Bismarck?).

Here is my camboose fashioned from the Bluejacket PE version and slightly enhanced with some brass railing with styrene doors and firebox tray:

A little fine tuning and maybe the condenser and a spit and this'll be ready for painting.

Thanks again to those who follow along...

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Friday, November 30, 2012 7:50 AM

That is one neat stove!

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Saturday, December 1, 2012 9:28 AM

How much can you see once it's in place?

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2009
  • From: brisbane australia
Posted by surfsup on Saturday, December 1, 2012 5:30 PM

First I have ever heard od a P/E Set for a Sailing Vessel and the Detail looks great. Looking on with great interest.....Cheers mark

If i was your wife, i'd poison your tea! If Iwas your husband, I would drink it! WINSTON CHURCHILL

  • Member since
    June 2010
  • From: Irvine, CA
Posted by Force9 on Tuesday, January 8, 2013 10:24 PM

Ahoy lads...

Thanks for the kind remarks on the camboose...  Jake, the cutout in the spar deck up forward will allow a decent glimpse down to the camboose - enough to have made the effort worthwhile, I think.

A post-holiday update...

Still plenty to do on the spar deck, but I'm going to divert some attention to the stern just to mix things up a bit - variety is the spice of life and all that...

The Revell stern is a refined representation of the Hull model stern:

The main guidance for my build is the series of paintings by Corne... Here is a close up shot showing good detail of the stern in the second painting:

My first task, unfortunately, is to remove the CONSTITUTION name on the upper counter. The Hull model, the Corne series of paintings, the George Ropes jr. paintings, and the Thomas Birch painting all agree that it wasn't there...

An appropriate blade on the hobby knife along with some fine grit sandpaper does the job in short order (Don't watch if you're squeamish!)

Once eliminated, I came back and scribed some planking on the counter with a flexible straight edge and my trusty scribe tool:

Next I decided to add some stern ports to the lower counter. The Hull model does not show these fitted, but the Chappelle drawing of the President does. I also think there is a faint representation of them on the Corne stern. The Ropes paintings clearly show them (with cannon poking out no less - yikes!) as well. The Marquardt AOTS shows them in all of the different iterations of the stern that are outlined in his historical overview. I just have a feeling that an American heavy frigate would have these in place... they are primarily for ventilation, but I suppose could also serve as loading access for small items. More likely that the young gentlemen berthed in the area would pitch trash out the back and watch it float away...

I marked the suitable locations and drilled a small pilot hole to help align the larger drill bit:

Next I used my trusty flat file to clean up the edges for the final outline:

I haven't yet determined if I'll make full port lids or split/half lids for these ports. I'll also ponder the idea of cracking one open a bit...

The stern gallery windows are next up. I want to show more panes to align better with the Corne version of the stern.

The Hull model has the very simple 2x2 panes that are on our kit. The Corne paintings show more complex 2x3 window panes. The President drawings suggest 4x3. The Bluejacket wooden kit includes the PE stern shown in my earlier thread. This has the 2x3 pattern which only lends itself to an upright rectangular shaped opening. The Revell kit has perfectly square openings and I didn't fancy the idea of modifying those. So I needed a square pattern - basically 3x3.

You could make these from small styrene rod and there are some model railroader windows available in suitable scale that could work in a pinch (with slight modifications/trimming), but I found a PE solution that worked great:

It turns out that this PE mesh by K&S Metals is just the ticket. A 3x3 pattern snipped free of the grid fits EXACTLY into the openings defined by the Revell stern windows. I cut out the appropriate blocks of "panes", smoothed the edges with my small metal file, and slipped them neatly into the openings.

BTW - If you'd like to pursue this solution yourself, I'd suggest you run - not walk - to your nearest Model RR hobby shop to grab the last of the K&S PE mesh in their inventory - rumor has it these have been discontinued.

Here is the first window test fitted in place:

Since that worked so well, I went ahead and completed the whole row:

I'm very satisfied with the result so far...

Thanks for following a long dissertation!

  • Member since
    March 2009
  • From: brisbane australia
Posted by surfsup on Wednesday, January 9, 2013 12:38 AM

You are doing some fantastic work on her. Am really enjoying this build.....Cheers Mark

If i was your wife, i'd poison your tea! If Iwas your husband, I would drink it! WINSTON CHURCHILL

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Wednesday, January 9, 2013 1:08 AM

That is one great solution F9,  I think I'll borrow it for my future built of the Connie, if you don't mind.  As usual, beautiful work.  It pushes me to improve my modeling as much as I can after seeing your work on the Connie and your Victory.

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    January 2010
Posted by CrashTestDummy on Wednesday, January 9, 2013 3:31 PM

Man, I wish I could package this thread up and print it out.  I was given one of these kits by my Brother In-Law when he went to London for a work assignment.  I'd love to build this kit again, my first attempt being in the late 60's.  I'd also love to up-detail the kit as you've done.  Probably not exposing the deck construction like you've done here, but the water pumps, window work, etc., are very much worth duplicating, IMHO.  Nice work, and thank you very much for sharing.  

Gene Beaird,

Pearland, Texas

G. Beaird,

Pearland, Texas

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Thursday, January 10, 2013 10:46 AM

Hmmm....I don't like to pick apart the details of a fine model, and it's not for me to dictate what any modeler's standard of detail ought to be.  But there's a problem with using that square grid etched mesh for transom windows on an eighteenth- or nineteenth-century ship.  I wouldn't mention this if it hadn't become so obvious that Force 9 is really concerned about detail and accuracy...but....

The real windows aren't rectangles.  (Neither are the individual glass "lights" that make them up.)  The shape of a standard eighteenth-century warship's transom is a rather intricate exercise in plane geometry.  Most of the details are pretty subtle; at a casual glance you don't notice them.  But if they aren't there, your eye starts telling you something isn't quite right.

The only vertical line in the layout of the windows is the one running up the middle of the center window.  All the others are tilted.  They radiate out from an imaginary point several feet (how many depends on the taste of the designer) above the center of the transom.  The outboard edges of the windows on the port and starboard ends tilt quite noticeably toward the center line.  Between the outboard edges of the end windows and the center one, the "verticals" slope less and less.  Plotted out on paper, they look like a fan.  No window has parallel sides; they're all narrower at the top than at the bottom.

The rails forming the tops and bottoms of the windows aren't parallel - or horizontal, or straight - either.  The one that's even with the maindeck is arched up in the middle to correspond with the deck camber.  Each other horizontal line is arched a little more steeply - with the molding forming the top of the transom having the most arch at all.  

If the shipwright contemplating how to build this structure wasn't tearing his hair out already, he had to take another fact into consideration:  the transom wasn't flat.  It bulged outward in the middle.

The Corne' painting reproduced above got all this right.  (He was a thoroughly competent marine artist, and understood exactly what he was painting.)  Look at it closely and you'll see that all the windows are thinner at their tops than at their bottoms.  And all the "horizontal" lines in the transom are gently arched.

Another little detail that a lot of folks may not be aware of.  The stern post and rudder post tilt slightly back and aft. That's not just for looks.  The tiller mounted on top of the rudder has to swing in a vertical arc that matches the deck camber.  So the tiller has to be tilted up and forwards slightly.  The angle of the rudder post makes sure that happens.

I haven't had that Revell kit in my hands for many years, but my recollection (reinforces by the photos above) is that the designers did a beautiful job on the transom. (That's undoubtedly a reflection of the George Campbell plans, on which the kit was based.  He knew what he was doing too.)  The person responsible for the transom on the old "Hull model" obviously knew about this sort of thing, though the crude tools and materials with which he was working made him overstate the curves a little bit.  Marquardt, in the transom views in the "Anatomy of the Ship" book, seems to have gotten them about right.

I vividly remember what I went through when I built the transom for my little scratchbuilt Continental frigate Hancock.  There was a good, detailed drawing of it as part of the Admiralty draft, but that drawing was no good for taking off dimensions.  (It was, as was normal in such drawings, drawn from a vantage point directly aft of the ship, with no perspective.  So the drawing was narrower and shallower than the transom would be if it was flattened out.)  So the first thing I had to do was make a working drawing of the actual shape of the transom.  I made the transom itself out of styrene sheet, so I could make it flat and bend it to shape.  Once (after several tries) I had a sheet of plastic cut to the right shape (complete with the asymmetrical window openings), I made the window frames out of styrene strip.  (I lost track of how many different lengths.)  A made the rails and decorative moldings out of styrene strip, with the decorative edges added with a simple, old-fashioned "scratch stick" made from an old Xacto blade.  I cheated a bit on the window muntins, making them from thin white decal strips applied to the clear plastic "glass."  (This model is on 3/32"=1' scale.  I don't know that I could get away with that trick on 1/96 scale.)

All this is nowhere near as noticeable in a frigate as it is in a bigger ship.  If the windows in the three rows in H.M.S. Victory's transom were rectangles, your eye would tell you immediately that something was wrong.  In fact, the top row of windows is considerably narrower than the bottom one.

Those old designers worked to much the same philosophy and aesthetics that the ancient Greeks did.  (There are scarcely any straight or parallel lines in the Parthenon - and scarcely any in the U.S.S. Constitution.  Notable exceptions:  gunports)  Just why they felt obligated to work that way is something of a mystery.  I wonder how many onlookers ever really appreciated what a subtle shape a sailing warship really was.

I'm not suggesting that Force Nine tear apart his hard work and completely redo the transom.  What I'm suggesting is that he take a good, long look at the transom and decide if it's satisfactory to his eye - which is the one that matters most. 

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Thursday, January 10, 2013 12:01 PM

I had noticed the angles in the Corne' painting, too. But, unlike Professor Tilley, I assumed it was due to the painter's skewed view of perspective. Look at his rendering of the trim under those windows, it is not even from left to right. But now that Dr. John (sorry for that nickname, Prof) has enlightened me, I do see what he is referring to and agree that there is a bowing out of these ports and that they do have a fanning out shape from the top to bottom. Good eye!

Lee

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, January 10, 2013 1:34 PM

Allowing for the fact that the designer had a whole series of pragmatic geometric problems to solve, he was creating a thing of beauty.

We had the principal of entasis drummed into our thick skulls in architecture school. That's when seemingly parallel lines are in fact convex and ultimately taper in as they rise. The "classic" example are the columns on Greek temples. The Romans went farther and exaggerated the entasis to a degree that the columns diameter actually increased as it rose before getting smaller again. I think the Greeks had it right, some Roman columns look pot bellied. Just another form of Imperial excess.

The Greeks didn't bother to write down why they designed this way, so there's some conjecture. But it seems to create a pleasing visual effect of slenderness and height. A true cylinder can actually appear pinched in the middle, an unpleasant trait in a structural element.

A good flagpole is designed with entasis. A true cylinder would look like what it is, a painted pipe. A true cone just looks weird. A satisfactory flag pole design has a cylindrical lower section and a conical upper section. A beautiful flag pole has a cylindrical lower section and an upper section with entasis.

Tall doorways can be designed this way, and I suspect that the big open ones in places like the NY Metropolitan Museum are.

Force9 I respectfully would suggest that the PE is less than the quality of the rest of your presentation. Also a minor point, but the windows, whether five or six, all are shown two panes wide, not three. That kind of sticks out.

I am in awe of the build, as I'm a guy who has enough of a challenge just painting the mullions a different color than the frame.

Bravo, Sir!

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Thursday, January 10, 2013 4:16 PM

Here in Greenville, NC, we have an old public library with huge, Greek revival columns out front.  A few years ago the contents of the library outgrew the building, and the board decided to build an addition.  Funding ran low, so the architect/contractor built some bargain-priced fiberglass (I think) columns that are perfect cylinders.  Every time I drive past the building they bug me; having alongside those genuinely classical column shapes is just disastrous.

G. Morrison's point about the designers - and builders - creating works of art is extremely well taken.  Building all those subtle curves and tapers into the stern of a ship (and an equally complex set into the bow) didn't make the ship a better fighting machine.  But they did it. 

Another example of such behavior:  lighthouses.  I had to do a series of lighthouse drawings for the Coast Guard Historian's Office some years back, and I was struck by the ornate  ironwork and stonework on the nineteenth-century ones.  Many of those things were built on promontories where scarcely any human being ever got close enough to admire them - but somebody put a great deal of effort into making them attractive.

With that, I suggest we leave the holy fields of architecture and get back to ship modeling.  No point getting our knuckles rapped again.

The curves of the moldings on the Constitution's transom are pretty conspicuous, but let's face it - the tapering effect in the windows isn't.  I can't tell from Force9's photo whether the Bluejacket photoetched version has it or not.  (Incidentally - can anybody contend that said photo-etched part is an improvement on the Revell one?  I can't.)  I'm honestly not sure whether my eye would notice its absence from a 1/96-scale model or not. (I sure can see it in my little Hancock model - but the feature was a good bit more pronounced in 1776.)

I'm a little curious:  do the windows in her current transom (which was built, I believe, relatively late in the nineteenth century) have such taper?  I doubt it.  But there's little room for doubt that the different transoms she had in her fighting days did.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    June 2010
  • From: Irvine, CA
Posted by Force9 on Saturday, January 12, 2013 2:50 PM

Thanks all for your kudos!

Prof Tilley your insightful suggestion is very appreciated.  I confess that I had no understanding of the complexity of the stern design elements and the detail shown in the Corne painting did not register to me.  I did notice some of what you've called out in the President drawings by Chappelle.  The outermost window in particular stood out to me as having a different shape.  The effect, however, is very subtle.

Now you've got me thinking!  (Although I really don't mean this build to be the end-all statement in historical accuracy... I just want to give it something extra and call out my reasoning/justification along the way).

None of what you see in my post is glued down yet - I still have flexibility.  I will play around with some alternative approaches to see what might be done to incorporate some or all of what you suggest.  Certainly the columns are easily replicated and I could jigger them a bit to angle appropriately. I do think, however, that I will need to draw the line before completely rebuilding most of the stern.  I'm crazy, but not insane.

The Smithsonian model seems to show this same flaw (see the link in my introductory post).  The Revell kit says it is based on the Smithsonian plans - so I wonder if this representation is inherent in the original George Campbell drawings.

The Marquardt representations of the stern are a bit perplexing to me.  In particular, he cites the 1812 Corne paintings as the source for his most prominent reconstruction.  But the Corne paintings of 1812 look NOTHING like what he's represented... not even close.  Compare for yourself using my close up photo.  He shows gun ports in the upper transom and the CONSTITUTION nameplate on the upper counter among other curiosities... and the Corne paintings are not conclusively showing the lower stern ventilation ports as Marquardt has it. Oh well - more fodder for his critics.

The Bluejacket PE version seems to have the upper windows slightly narrower than the bottom.  Slightly. Of course the modeler can adjust their scratch built columns to enhance the effect.  You will notice the distinctly tall rectangular shape to allow for the 2 wide x 3 tall pattern.

It is interesting to note that the Heller Victory seems to have gotten most of the elements correct (aside from the too heavy mullions):

And G. Morrison - I have added Entasis to my limited vocabulary... I'll pull it out at the next dinner party to impress the assemblage... Of course, I never get invited to dinner parties... probably because I always pull out words like "entasis" to impress the... oh well!

Thanks for all of the interest and thank you again professor for the excellent insight.

Stay tuned

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Saturday, January 12, 2013 8:12 PM

I'm not so sure there's anything wrong with the Revell (i.e., Campbell) transom.  As we've noted, the effect is extremely subtle.  To my eye it only really shows up in the outermost windows - as it seems to do in the Revell molding.  If they'd gotten it wrong, we'd probably notice - because our eyes would tell us that the outermost windows were splayed outwards.  My eye, at any rate, certainly doesn't suggest that.  If I were to build that kit again (gawd forbid), I'd probably leave the transom as-is (with maybe an attempt to make the muntins smaller).

To my eye Heller, apart from the too-heavy muntins already noted, got the Victory's transom right.  So did Revell and Airfix, for that matter. 

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Saturday, January 12, 2013 11:08 PM

Professor T, GM and F9,

Thank you for all the amazing information, not only on the Connie but naval architecture in the age of sail.  I know now that I will be looking for at all my sailing ship models differently from now on on.

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Marysville, WA
Posted by David_K on Saturday, January 12, 2013 11:21 PM

Man, that is some amazing work you're doing!  Now that I have this Constitution kit in my (limited) stash, I'm hoping my skills will someday reach a point where I can do anything near what I'm seeing here!  I haven't forayed into much modding and such with any of my kits, but I am impressed by your ambition and skill.  

Well done, indeed!

        _~
     _~ )_)_~
     )_))_))_)
     _!__!__!_         
     (_D_P_K_)
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

Current Project:  Imai/ERTL Spanish Galleon #2

Recently Finished: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark

Next Up:  ???

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:39 AM

Incredibly trivial trivia:

The "radiator" on a classic Rolls Royce car is tapered in slightly on the sides from bottom to top. Very subtle.

That Victory stern is a thing of beauty.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, January 13, 2013 11:50 AM

I think I remember reading somewhere (a long time ago) that every Rolls Royce radiator was made by hand and eye, and that only one man in the factory knew how to do it.  Whether that's still the case I don't know; I don't routinely go shopping for Rolls Royces.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    July 2012
Posted by Captain Isaac Hull on Monday, January 14, 2013 10:57 AM

Sir,

Your work continues to amaze. Your attention to detail is extraordinary. I cannot wait to see your paint finish... and your rigging.

Will you rig this fine ship with such an equal attention to detail?

- Captain Isaac Hull

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Monday, January 14, 2013 11:50 AM

jtilley

I think I remember reading somewhere (a long time ago) that every Rolls Royce radiator was made by hand and eye, and that only one man in the factory knew how to do it.  Whether that's still the case I don't know; I don't routinely go shopping for Rolls Royces.

 There was a local Honda dealer here that carried Rolls Royce as a sub-line. Somewhere around 1985,  I was looking at a Silver Spirit in the showroom and got into a conversation with a salesman. He showed me the features of the car and then, since we both knew that I had no intentions (nor means) of purchasing it, he pointed out the subpar paint job on the car's body due, to what we both speculated was, the result of spraying it on by hand. It was uneven and thick in many areas, whereas the robotically applied paint of the Hondas were apparently perfect. 

 Sometimes doing something by hand isn't always the best method, I would suppose. 

 

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Wednesday, January 16, 2013 9:18 PM

Subfixer, you've convinced me.  In a few months I'm going to be getting rid of my 2007 Honda Fit (which has 108,000 miles on it).  In view of what you've said, I won't trade it in on a new Rolls Royce.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    June 2010
  • From: Irvine, CA
Posted by Force9 on Wednesday, February 27, 2013 1:59 PM

Folks...

I played around with various mockups to see what might be done to reshape the windows, but in the end I decided I had neither the skill nor the courage to attempt a fix. Too much risk of ruining the rest of the molded detail.

Here's where I landed:

I will, however, be heeding Prof Tilley's advice regarding the spar deck hatch coamings... I've been building them up and should have pictures shortly...

Thx

  • Member since
    June 2010
  • From: Irvine, CA
Posted by Force9 on Saturday, March 2, 2013 1:50 PM

Ahoy Lads...

Following the suggestion of Prof Tilley (and Blue Ensign on another forum):

I've started in on the spar deck hatch coamings... They should be built up a bit and have some curvature added to the surface.

I began by adding Evergreen no. 144 (.040x.080) to the side edges of all the coamings. Next I added Evergreen no. 164 (.080x.080) to the front and back edges. This built up enough material to allow for shaping the curved edges:

Then I prepared the patient for surgery by masking the decking to protect against random scraping as I used the file to shape the edges:

I lined the hatch interiors with Evergreen no. 129 (.020x.250) leaving a slight lip for the gratings:

Still need to finish off some more interior details and perhaps soften the curvature on a few of the hatches.

Thanks for following along.

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Saturday, March 2, 2013 4:59 PM

Good work there!

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    March 2013
Posted by Marcus.K. on Sunday, March 3, 2013 4:34 AM

Gentlemens,

thank you for this very interesting and very entertaining discussion. Its always fun and I love to learn more and more by your valuable posts!

Hello Evans,

as mentioned in MSW: I love your way of modeling - historical "observations", interpretation in a beautiful model - and real good craftmansship!

I like the result you got with the hatches .. but I don´t see the evidence for it? I am not sure, but does´nt the curve follow the curve of the deck? What would be the advantage of that shape? Would this not create a higher risk of stumbling?

  • Member since
    March 2013
Posted by Topcat1436 on Monday, March 4, 2013 8:38 AM

Your work on this is very impressive - I'm following with great interest as I just finished this kit and the best I can say is I managed to survive. I'd love to tackle it again in 10 -15 years after my skill set improves drastically.

Thank you for these posts!

-Sandy

  • Member since
    February 2003
Posted by Jim Barton on Tuesday, March 5, 2013 4:13 PM

I'm enjoying this!

"Whaddya mean 'Who's flying the plane?!' Nobody's flying the plane!"

  • Member since
    March 2013
Posted by Marcus.K. on Thursday, March 7, 2013 3:32 PM

Gentlemen, officiers, sailors, landlubber!

Since I have to notice that here are many literated persons I may ask a questionß

I remember having read an article which seemed to my to be very reliable. I think, it was something like an Midshipmans log or something similar. The text was about what the 24-pounders in the cabin did during the "Great Chase" - their fire nearly destroyed the structur and the use of these guns on gun deck had to be stopped to avoid severe damage on Spardeck and on Stern. .. as far as I understood not by the fire - but by the power of the coil back. The ships wooden structure was too weak.

I checked my books - but I could not find it. Now I believe I was reading this report somewhere in the world wide web - but I can not remember where - and google did not help.

Therefore my question to you all out there .. does anyone know the report and were to find it?

Thank you in advance ..

Marcus

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