Trumpeter 1/350 HMS Dreadnought 1907

Bill - wow, right back in there with another kit.  I've strapped on my life jacket to enjoy the ride on this one.  Looking forward to more, particularly  the wood decking products - I've a few of those but have yet to tackle a project with them.

regards,

Jack

Thanks Jack! Got to keep the work bench humming you know. Glad to have you along for this little cruise. First time for me using the wood decking as well but figured it was worth trying out for something of this magnitude.

Bill,

She is looking good so far and I am excited to see your build.  I had a hunch that I did not spend enough time getting the hull seam right.  You either spend the time doing it right or fixing it, so next time, I'll spend more time on herding it right!

Steve

Steve,

Thanks for the comments! Seeing your comments about the hull made me take that extra little precaution with mine and not assume it would just go together. Just needed a little coaxing (and some patience while sitting there holding the hull as the glue set! ). Always more than one way to skin the cat when it comes to these.

Day 2 of the Dreadnought project saw the main deck get installed permanently in place. Overall the fit of the deck is quite good with just a little bit of pressure needed at the top sides in a couple of spots. I used liquid glue and some strategically placed rubber bands to hold it all together while the glue set.

While that was going on I turned my attention to the main guns and turrets. The kit-provided barrels have the blast bags molded on and depends on those as the contact points for the barrels to be installed. The blast bags weren't fitted in 1907 and my Master replacement barrels are the correct shape and length but have the standard pins on their bases...but there's nothing to actually attach them to. Fortunately the kit provides 6 turrets on the sprues so I decided on a little test first.

I took some Aves epoxy-sculpt and mixed together a small amount to provide the means to mount the barrels. The trick here is that the replacement barrels need to have some of their bases inside the turret to be the right length but getting that right with both barrels can be tricky. Fortunately the Kagero book includes scale drawings with a top down plan view included, so I used that as my guide on how far the barrels should extend. The Aves is a two-part epoxy putty that will dry hard as a rock once it cures but has a good bit of work time, just the right amount of flexibility needed in this circumstance.

The base of the turret was added once I was sure I had the length and placement correct, but not glued in place. Adding the base caused the barrels to change their position and elevation just a bit due to the nature of the turret design and the general alignment.

Just to be sure I had things lined up correctly, I placed the turret in the A mount on the super deck and used a wooden toothpick balanced on one of the sky lights to ensure the gun barrels would hold the proper elevation while the Aves set up.

I'll leave that overnight to see if the experiment was a success...if it is, then I'll repeat it with the other 4 turrets needed and go from there. Fingers crossed!

So after letting the first turret set up as a test bed (it set hard as a rock, so that part worked wonders), I realized that one of the limitations of this approach was ensuring the gun separation and alignment between the two barrels stayed the same. I thought about constructing a jig or support for the barrels outside the turret to help with that and then opted instead to use a piece of sprue inside the turret. So back to the Kagero scale drawings I went, used some small pieces of blue tack to hold the barrels in place over the drawings, and then marked a section of sprue at the correct width. Drilled out two holes and then test fit the barrels and the sprue piece inside the turret to make sure it would all fit and line up correctly with the barrels at the right length.

Process was repeated 3 times for the remaining four turrets to get their little supports and then CA gel used to permanently secure the barrels to the sprue chunk.

When I test fit the barrels with the turret bottoms and in the mounts on the hull, there was still too much play in the barrels, so I solved that issue by adapting my first test approach and using some more Aves epoxy sculpt to secure the bases.

This combo did the trick nicely while still allowing for some minor height adjustments with the different turrets. The turrets were placed and no toothpicks were needed this time around.

Still a lot more to do in terms of detailing the turrets but the guns themselves are now securely installed. One of those details is the 12pdr guns, so I started work on those. Clipped off the styrene barrel at the appropriate point and drilled a mount hole with a #78 micro drill and used CA gel to secure the Master brass barrel to the breech. There's 27 of these (not all are mounted, so I'll have a few spares just in case), so this will take a little time to get them all done.

Nicely done Bill.  I think I will have to "borrow" your idea for my 12" guns, if you don't mind.....

Steve

Go for it Steve! Happy to pass on the tip about the sprue chunk, it's an idea I also 'borrowed' from another builder who had the same issue on a different forum.

Not a huge update today but still managed some progress. After studying the instructions and doing some test fits with the front of the superstructure parts (C4, C5, and B42 in Step 4) and the bases of the funnels (A16 and A19) and the boat deck (C30), I decided to split the wood deck insert into two pieces for better handling and fit arrangement. The wood deck needed some trimming around the base of the rear funnel as well as the small blockhouse structure at the front of the interior compartment, but otherwise everything else fit like it should. The funnel and boat deck bases are only dry-fit but the front of the superstructure was permanently installed in place to make it easier to paint this area later on.

Like Steve mentioned in his build, one of the things I noticed while working on the bow area was that you could see straight through the hawseholes from one side to the other. To fix that, I cut a strip of white styrene and glued it in place to blank off one set from the other.

The moment of truth had arrived, time to secure the super deck in place. Overall the fit was good except at the angled area where it joined the bow. Both sides needed some putty and sanding work with the starboard side needing more due to a larger gap.  

I deliberately left off the top part of the aft superstructure, part A20, as it makes it harder to install the wood deck as well as the pair of 12pdr guns that go in that spot, so it will end up getting painted separately and installed later when the time comes. Not sure how much further I'll go before painting the first round of stuff...I'm thinking of doing it in two phases with the hull going first and then dealing with the turrets and superstructure components second to break things up a bit.

Bill,

She is looking good and I am glad the bit of styrene worked for you.  How do like the Hunter decks?  I know it is just dry fitted but how is the thickness?

One thing I have noticed that is different between the Trumpeter and Zvezda kits are the four quarter round ladders (stairs) on the deck you are working on.  The Zvezda kit actually has the ladders molded all the way to the main deck, whereas the Trumpeter only has two stairs to represent the ladder way.  I was thinking of opening up the way; however, I do not think anyone would notice given all the ships boats and other furniture above them.

As I said before, beautiful work as always Bill.

Steve

Thanks Steve!

The Wood Hunter deck seems to be working out pretty well. The thickness is paper-thin so it doesn't add to much to the overall appearance but is something that has to be compensated for to a degree depending on the deck and parts involved. It has some nice 'bonus' parts too...it includes wood inserts for the boats and also provides a PE sheet with parts for the coal scuttles and cable reels and a length of anchor chain (the Trumpeter chain is superior though IMHO), so it provides a lot for what you get. It's self-adhesive but I may have to supplement that in a few places with some strategic Gator glue or CA applications, maybe around the edges in a couple of spots, but won't know that for sure until I actually stick it down for good. When picking out the inserts to allow for the dry-fit tests, it was necessary to cut through the backing film from the reverse side as the laser cutting doesn't extend through to it but that's a minor thing IMHO, just a bit tedious/time-consuming to do...but worth it to avoid issues when fitting it permanently.

You're right about the ladders/stairs on the super deck. Like you, I think once the roof parts and the boat deck components are added, seeing anything in this area is going to be very difficult without the aid of magnification and/or lighting, so it's really up to you to decide how far to go in terms of opening things up I guess. It's the same question I'm debating with in terms of when/how to paint things!

Continuing on with the efforts aimed at the hull details and getting it ready for the first round of painting, I decided to add the screen covers to the front part of the anchor chain guide holes, a missing detail that isn't covered in either the Eduard PE sets or the kit. I tried several different ways of scratch-building this item including using sheet styrene and drilling out holes by hand and using some nylon mesh screen material but neither of these produced the desired result. After scrounging around in my spares bin, I found some old photo-etched steel Pzkpfw III intake screens that had what I wanted.

The challenge was to cut them to the right shape...so I created a pattern by taking a pencil and doing a rubbing with a piece of white paper over the hole's opening on the super deck to get the outline. This was cut out and then photocopied onto another sheet and only the front half trimmed out. Using some sharp sturdy scissors, I cut the mesh into the desired shape and then fine tuned it with Tamiya sprue cutters where needed until I had three suitably sized screens. The screens were glued in place with liquid glue and gently pressed down with a wooden toothpick into the desired position.

The next little detail that I needed to add were the 16 'ribs' that were welded over the waterline belt armor plate join seams on each side of the hull but which Trumpeter neglected. These can be clearly seen on the plans and in reference photos as having some thickness out from the hull vs. being just flat strips, so I settled on using some 0.6mm diameter styrene rod to do the job. They had the right width but needed to be flattened, so I secured the rod with a length of masking tape and used a sanding stick to flatten one side, then turned the rod over and flattened the other side.

The Kagero 3D scale plans were invaluable in determining their height and placement around the hull and it was through this process that I realized that Trumpeter 'mirrored' some of the hull details in terms of number/placement of portholes and hatches so in those cases my 'fall back' landmarks of choice were the torpedo net booms.  

Speaking of the booms, those came next. In some spots where the booms needed to pass over the ribs, some additional sanding/flattening was needed but otherwise everything mostly played nice with each other. The kit parts only give you the option of having the booms in the stowed position and of course there's no torpedo net provided for but I'm not worried about that for my purposes.

Next were the keels. Both of mine had some warping to different degrees and in different spots on their respective parts, so some careful work with liquid glue and positioning in terms of starting at the front and working my way along in small sections was necessary to get them both in place and lined up properly.

Rounding out this stage of activity, the propeller shafts, support struts, and rudders were installed.

Tomorrow will likely see the first round of painting depending!

Very nice!  Thanks for the photos and descriptions of what you are doing!

SofaKings

Very nice!  Thanks for the photos and descriptions of what you are doing!

Thanks for the comments and my pleasure on the photos/descriptions.

First step in the hull painting process, an overall primer coat of Model Master enamel Flat Black by airbrush. This will serve 3 purposes, the 'usual' primer purpose to ensure no bare plastic is left laying around, serve as the 'boot stripe' color for easier masking on the hull, and offer the option of pre-shading for some slight variations when the hull red and gray are applied in the next rounds.

This will get the chance to set up overnight before the masking is done for the hull red to come next.

Second step in the hull painting process is complete. Careful masking over the black coat from yesterday and some MM Insignia Red produces the hull red portion.

After the bandages are removed, the patient seems to be doing just fine.

This will get the chance to sit overnight and then the fun begins with the gray top portions.

Last step in the hull painting gone done today. Applied a custom mix of roughly 70/30 Model Master Panzer Gray and Light Gray over the primer coat while leaving the boot stripe and hull red portions masked with blue painter's tape.

After that had dried, the tape came off and there were a couple spots that needed some touch-ups around some of the 'ribs' on the waterline, so I re-masked carefully with short strips where needed and either sprayed more gray or more of the Flat Black as the case required to tighten up the boot stripe.

The sharp eyed will notice that one of the rudders is missing in the last photo...it came off during the painting session and has since been reattached. Now I have to decide whether to go ahead and permanently attach the wood decks or wait until later...decisions, decisions!

I took off one the rudders also when removing the masking tape on my dreadnought.  Took me a full day to figure out where the rudder went.  Found it in the trash stuck to the tape.  

Bill,

Your Dreadnought is coming along nicely or should I say it is looking AWESOME.  What comes next?  I have read somewhere, probably from Tracy White that the RN Anti-Fouling paint was brighter than the USN color, but I haven't  been able to find a colored post that shows the correct color.

I have been trying to find WEM's Colourcoats RN19 as well as Norfolk Red 65a without any luck.  Looking forward to the next installment since you are passing me up like I was standing still!

Steve

Bill,

I left a comment on Steve's Dreadnought thread, and I will say the same of yours as well. You are doing a tremendous job! I have the Zvesda version as well as the Pontos detail set, and both of you have inspired me to take it off of the waiting list to start immediately. Thanks for the inspiration!

Bill Morrison

Marcus

I think the same thing happened to one of the torpedo booms at the bow...but unfortunately the tape got tossed into the main garbage and is gone forever...so I had to scratch a replacement with some styrene rod. Masking can be a tricky business!

Steve

thanks for the comments and I'm enjoying your progress as well! You're not too far behind me depending...I've still got a lot of work to do with the details so that's going to slow things down a little bit I imagine as I figure out just when and how I want to tackle the superstructure and masts. As for what's next, I'm thinking I will take this in 'layers' and build up the superstructure decks/components one level at a time and treat them as 'modular' components. The boats and other stuff would come last...the key I think is leaving enough real estate available to safely handle it while working and not, literally, painting myself into a corner. Looking at colors online is always an iffy proposition depending on monitor settings, quality of the image, etc. I figure hull reds in this scale wouldn't be all that different from each other truthfully, especially when you add some weathering or variation to it.

Bill M

Glad to have you stop by and thanks for the support! Dreadnought's an inspiring old girl and sounds like you've got a neat project lined up with the Zvezda/Pontos combination!  

Bill,

I am looking forward to seeing how you tackle the masts, since you are using brass rod.  I agree, the kit mast will not take a strain at all so I was figuring on using brass also but my soldering skills have not been used in many moons so hopefully I can get an idea on how you setup your masts.  

I also agree that trying to match colors off the screen is rather dicey, but I am trying to get an idea of how bright the color were for the USN and RN ships.  I found other posts by Tracy White and others discussing the colors of the various navies' anti-fouling paint and the only one I can say I have a clue about is the IJN color  Hull Red XF-7 that Tamiya produces and Trumpeter calls out in their kit color sheet.

Steve

Steve,

Trumpeter did a decent job of molding the masts but they are fragile and mine at least have some flash on them...so there's added benefits to replacing them vs. using the kit parts. I'll use them as the 'master' for the brass replacements though to make sure I don't introduce any other complications if possible! Like you I don't solder very often so I'll do my best to show how (maybe) not to do it!

It sounds like you may have a challenge on your hands with the anti-fouling hull red question difference between RN and USN ships. I found that using the Insignia Red over the Flat Black gives you a lot of control over how dark/light you want the red to be in the final analysis vs. trying to mix your own shade to be just right, so maybe that could help for your effort? Every genre has it's 'white wale' of trying to match things up I guess, in the armor world where I do most of my builds it's the 'correct' shade of Olive Drab for US/Allied tanks or Dunkelgelb for German! It's often a never-ending quest but the chase can still be fun/rewarding depending as it leaves some room for individual interpretation/expression along the way.

I've been busy the last few days but have been getting in some progress here and there to keep the Dreadnought steaming ahead! I wanted to be sure that the wood decking wouldn't have any adverse reactions to either Future or my preferred flat lacquer, Testors Lusterless Flat, so I rigged up a simple test using the turret cut-out pieces from the Wood Hunter deck and sprayed one with Future only, one with the Lusterless Flat only, and a third with both to see if anything negative would occur. After letting it sit for 24 hours, all three test subjects appeared perfectly normal and fully functional so I went ahead and attached the decks permanently in place for the main deck and super deck areas.

The Wood Hunter deck is self-adhesive backed with a very thin plastic film that needs to be removed for the adhesive to be exposed. I found the best way to do that was to use a strip of masking tape to 'lift' the film at the start and then peel it back as needed. Occasionally the backing film would leave a section behind or not peel completely and in those cases the masking tape trick worked perfectly to lift those sections away quickly and easily. I used some wooden toothpicks and a paint brush handle in different spots to ensure the deck laid down evenly and experienced no bubbles or buckling in the process.

After the decks were on, one thing I needed to validate was that the breakwaters would sit at the right height and not interfere with the turret gun elevations. So a quick dry-fit was in order and I also took the opportunity to fit the breakwater along with the rectangular piece it relates to on the X turret so that I could paint and work with it as a single piece vs. two separate pieces. The breakwaters will be painted a bit later along with the turrets to take advantage of having the AB out.

That left me free to continue working on the turrets so I could start their paint work in the next phases. First up though I needed to remove the molded on detail on the turret top in order for the Eduard PE replacement parts to fit and sit level. I used a square micro chisel to do that quickly and relatively pain-free.

Each turret received its three sight scope housings and kit-supplied PE top covers. The Eduard overlays are dry-fit only at this point as they will be painted separately in a darker gray before they get permanently attached and it's much easier to do that with them off the turrets vs on.

Made some progress today in the area of the superstructure decks. I started in on the boat deck level and the first order of business was checking the fit/placement of the wood deck panel for this area. Did a quick test along with the conning tower to make sure everything would play nice and no major issues to report...so the deck will go on later after some paint for the deck components.

Then the real fun began, the actual construction for the boat deck. This involves about 25-30 different parts depending on how you attack it. I decided the best bet was to start at the ends and work toward the middle, especially since all the support posts/rods are separate pieces and they all need some time to dry while still keeping their alignment. Since there are a lot of pieces that fit to these, I opted to leave the middle connection unglued for the time being. The bases of the funnels are only dry fit and not permanently secured yet.

Everything in this area is a tight fit and fragile, so I suppose it's a good thing that Trumpeter didn't try to mold them all as integrated pieces. More effort will be spent on this area tomorrow to add the relevant details like the signal flag bins and such.

Bill,

It's great to see that someone can do such neat, clean work! Your ship is coming along nicely and is already weeks ahead of my build - probably will end up months ahead!

I'll be looking closely at both yours and Steve's WIP just to see how it ought to be done!!

I've had my setbacks today and will post my tales of woe  shortly in my WIP.

Mike

 

Really taking shape Bill, looking good

Mike

thanks for checking in, glad to hear this will be helpful in your own build, that's the whole point of a build log IMHO!

Anthony

good to hear from you as well my friend, thanks for the comments and support!

Carrying on from yesterday, I spent some more time on the boat deck. I installed all the signal flag lockers and some other odds and ends that populate this area. The admiral's day cabin was replaced courtesy of the Eduard set. Both halves of the boat deck will be left in this condition until after painting to make it easier to handle them and do the installation later on once the super deck has all its stuff added.

I also devoted some attention to the funnels and the conning towers. The Eduard set provided the cable stays and I used a #78 finger drill to open up the vent pipe tops on the funnels for a little added detail.  It's worth pointing out that the Trumpeter instructions call for a pair of PE ladders, PE16B, be added to the base of the aft funnel but the fit is so tight for it as it slides in with the boat deck that I left them off. I might be able to figure out a way to still add them later...but not sure.

The Eduard set also provides a replacement for the range-finder platform on the aft conning tower but has you bend it up into a weird configuration that resembles a baby cradle. The Trumpeter part, F14, has the wrong type of base, so I opted for a hybrid solution. I kept the base portion of the Eduard piece but removed the railings and will add those later using either some of the Eduard or Trumpeter rails that are duplicates of each other.

Just to make sure everything is still playing nice before we commit to paint, I did a test fit of all the components.

This is as far as I'm going to take things before doing some painting and working on the super deck interior as the boat deck pieces are too fragile to leave laying around for long.