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By the deep 17 ...

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  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Friday, May 6, 2016 11:22 AM

Dafi, this is turning into a very interesting subject.  Taking soundings and stowing the hammocks.  When looking at your project, I seem to hear the sound of being piped for breakfast and the thought in my mind of a stalking French frigate hiding somehwere in the mist.

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Russia, St.Peterburg
Posted by kirill4 on Friday, May 6, 2016 4:48 AM

dafi coffee roasting businessBig SmileBig SmileBig Smile

those, which backed normal way... looks good!!!

painted and with the net installed ..will be even more better!

BRGDS

Kirill

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Ludwigsburg Germany
Posted by dafi on Friday, May 6, 2016 1:35 AM
You are welcome Kirill!!
 
...hihihihihihi...
 
...hohohohohoho...
 
... looks like dafi entered the coffee roasting business too ...
 
Victory_130721_8694.jpg
 
... next lesseon was "learn it the hard way!"
 
 
This is how it looks if Fimo/Milliput is baked with 230° Celsius instead of 110° Celsius as blind dafi got confused by the english temperature beside the german writing and vica versa and decided bravely to use 230° Fahrenheit ...
 
Victory_130721_8697.jpg
 
... nicely black and blown up ...
 
Victory_130721_8693.jpg
 
.... so got the Fimo out again ...
 
Victory_130721_8687.jpg
 
... first the ball, then the thick sausage, then a medium sausage of 4 mm with the use of a small sheet with 4 mm spacers, and then the thin sausage of 3 mm with the flipside ot the tool with 3 mm spacers. Afterwards I used a "comb" with small wires in 2 mm distance to roll in the 7 lashings representing the 7 seas ...
 
Victory_130721_8688.jpg
 
... then bent the parts, distributed it on the oven plate and baked on the right tempreture.
 
Victory_130721_8701.jpg
 
Funny to see the bloated black bean beside. And I finally got a nice stack of rolled hammocks :-)
 
Victory_130721_8704.jpg
 
Then filed the touching surfaces ...
 
Victory_130721_8705.jpg
 
... glued the parts together while paying tribute to gravity in the middle of the nettings.
 
Victory_130721_8706.jpg
 
Victory_130721_8710.jpg
 
Victory_130721_8719.jpg
 
This is still the rough version, paint will be easy, but the netting will still need some fiddling around to be figured out properly ...
 
All the best, Daniel
 
  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Russia, St.Peterburg
Posted by kirill4 on Wednesday, May 4, 2016 12:08 PM

Hi Daniel,

Looks perfect! rings I make in the same way... but this trick with simplified splicing-good idea...and much faster than imitate norm. splicing... on such thin thhread...I need to readjust my leads.'!..

Thanks for idea! :)

 

 

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Ludwigsburg Germany
Posted by dafi on Wednesday, May 4, 2016 11:22 AM
Just realised that I forgot to show the gunport lid topping lifts. A blackened 0,3 mm copper wire wound around a 1 mm needle and cut into rings.
 
deep17_130525_7557.jpg
 
For the next steps I skipped the tweezers and used fine pliers from the electro department, thus reducing the free flights of the parts enormously !
 
After some tests I did like follow: As the thread was to thin to do a real splice, I held the ring with the pliers ...
 
deep17_130525_7583.jpg
 
... some CA in the U-turn of the tread and twisted counter clockwise ...
 
deep17_130530_7594.jpg
 
.. to get a well enough splice imitation.
 
Then positiond the ring, hooked in ...
 
deep17_130525_7575.jpg
 
... closed with the pliers ...
 
deep17_130525_7581.jpg
 
... and the lift is in place :-)
 
 
There are still the small leather tubes that protect the lifts entering the hull.
The original idea was to imitate those with diluted PVA but now I wanted to try something more tricky.
 
Some time ago I saw a trick in the WW1 biplane section, heating up a Q-Tips tube and pulling it, resulting in ultra thin tubes as the ratio in between the hole and the outer wall stays the same during the process.
 
As I wanted the tube to be black, I took a black sprue, so I prepared a 4 mm sprue by drilling a center hole of 2 mm, fixed toothpicks on its ends ...
 
deep17_130530_7600.jpg
 
... and slowly heated it up and pulled to the wanted diameter ...
 
deep17_130530_7607.jpg
 
... then cut 3 mm pieces and fiddeld them on a 0,1 mm copper wire to avoid unwanted escapes. In the front the test topping lift.
 
Then drilled 0,7 mm holes for the tubes pointing 45° upwards, inserted the tubes, glued them in and cut them to the necessary length ...
 
deep17_130530_7618.jpg
 
... used a needle to reopen the squeezed holes, put the lift in and glued it by fixing with the needle.
 
And it looks like this:
 
deep17_130530_7617.jpg
 
deep17_130530_7620.jpg
 
deep17_130530_7640.jpg
 
With a little more practice it will for shure look even tidier macro wise, but for the naked eye it already works :-)
 
And for the next projects I will do the real splice, i promise ;-)
 
Cheers, Daniel
  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Ludwigsburg Germany
Posted by dafi on Wednesday, May 4, 2016 8:19 AM

Thank you for the input!

Next lashed the guns as defined by the Navy Board  ...

 
deep17_guns_8358.jpg
 
... then tried out the etch hammock cranes ...
 
deep17_etch_8359.jpg
 
deep17_etch_8363.jpg
 
... and with connecting rope ...
 
deep17_etch_8368.jpg
 
... :-)
 
XXXDAn
  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, May 3, 2016 10:49 PM

Analog computers rule!

That was called to arm the lead.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Tuesday, May 3, 2016 9:00 PM
Sounding trivia. The line is called a "lead" (variant: "leade"), and pronounced in English with a long "E" (ref: "LEED"). The sounding weight is called the "lead" but with a soft /short "e" (ref "led") to rhyme with the metal. The lead was usually iron pipe, often plugged (variant "slugged") with lead. There was a cup in the base filled with tallow to bring back a sample of the bottom. To properly make a sounding (sounding coming from the calling out the depths aloud), the lead was read when the line was plumb vertical. In 3 or 4 fathoms (fathom = 6' or 1.83m) of water, this was not much of a task. In ten fathoms of water, the lead had to be spun on it's lead line to get it to land ahead of the ship. This took some art, as the leadsman had to gauge the forward speed of the ship and the potential depth of the water.
  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Russia, St.Peterburg
Posted by kirill4 on Tuesday, May 3, 2016 3:34 PM

Hello Daniel,

those my remark ...lets say, is pure theoretical....just have a gap in 3 days of freedom from my duties...waiting in the hotel for the next emploiment... my model far away from me, and a lot of time for carefully reading/ studing ,what other modeler saying and doing :)))  and follow all those links they provided.Big SmileBig SmileBig Smile

I had feeling , that there some difference in coloration of metal and wooden parts of the anchor could exists, rised after many times repeatedly watching your paints and iron work on these section of Victory...just at the level of feelings, when you drop a glance...this two parts are from different materials... may be somthng , as when I look at this part of chain plates and planking on your model...both supposed to be black in color, but in this case ,I feel from the first moment,they are from differentvin material...

By the way, I foget, did tell You in past, how interesting effect made still brush(some kind of small handle still brush used for cleaning rust from metal parts...)on fresh painted surface?

if not, You could try... I use it, when paint my masts and bowsprit...experiments :left plastic, right painted wood as "wood" :)))

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  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Ludwigsburg Germany
Posted by dafi on Tuesday, May 3, 2016 10:49 AM

Good question ...

In later years it was painted flush over, as to be seen when the white and black stripes were applied over everything.

Have to ask in our german forum, I could see the same brownish coat as on the guns being applied. I will keep you updated :-)

XXXDAn

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Russia, St.Peterburg
Posted by kirill4 on Tuesday, May 3, 2016 4:17 AM

Oh Yes!!!

Nice looks!

I like it!

Thanks for guidance with black painting!

Seems to me ,those colors ...black and white -most complicate for proper imitation!

Anchor... remarks only abt painting... is there sence slightly adjust difference in coloring of metal and wooden parts???

Or must be same?

 

BRGDS 

Kirill

 

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Ludwigsburg Germany
Posted by dafi on Tuesday, May 3, 2016 2:31 AM

Thank you Steve and Kirill :-)

The black was a mixture with casein washes ditry white, white dry brushing, brush made traces of water rinsings, chipping with a fine brush and more finery with the usual more or less artistic approach ;-)

After a hint from a fellow modeller I still shortend the lead a tad, fixed some resin anchors from my own production and it now looks like this :-)


deep17_130530_7652.jpg

deep17_130530_7660.jpg

deep17_130530_7661.jpg

deep17_130530_7665.jpg

Enjoy, Daniel

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Russia, St.Peterburg
Posted by kirill4 on Monday, May 2, 2016 11:46 AM

Hi Daniel,

Watch it again... fallen in love with that black color... damn realistic!!!

could You describe in short, how You did it?... what's else, exept black paint?

Big BRGDS! :)))

Kirill

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Sunday, May 1, 2016 1:43 PM

Beautiful work as usual Dan! I have to say, looking at all your detail work makes my eyes and brain hurt. I love the weathering you have done. Just enough but not too much.

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Russia, St.Peterburg
Posted by kirill4 on Sunday, May 1, 2016 5:29 AM

I've heard it!Big SmileBig SmileBig Smile

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Ludwigsburg Germany
Posted by dafi on Sunday, May 1, 2016 5:10 AM

Thank you Steve and Kirill, your kind words are always good for a poor modeler´s soul!

 

I am already wondering, but nobody dares asking about the title of the thread  ;-)

 
... okokok, before I have to wait too long: dafi, what strange thread title you have ?!?
 
Once upon a time, the shout from the channels was to be heard "By the Deep 17" meaning a little more than 17 fathoms of water were measured, roundabout 30 meters.
 
The line used was  ca. 20 to 25 fathoms long (about 36 to 45 meters) and had marks indicating the depth measured. So the shout "By the Mark XX" meant that it was exactely on the mark and "By the Deep XX" meant it to be above the mark. The marks were at  2, 3, 5, 7, 10, 13, 15, 17 und 20 fathoms (after Nares) and had :
2 fathoms leather with 2 stripes, 3 fathoms leather with 3 stripes, 5 fathoms white, 7 fathoms red, 10 fathoms leather with hole 13 fathoms blue, 15 fathoms white, 17 fathoms red und 20 fathoms two knots.
 
 
 
So hastily made the 20 fathom line, fitted marks and lead ...
 
deep17_130524_7211.jpg
 
... and the sound of the falling lead could be heard  :-)
 
deep17_130524_7219.jpg
 
deep17_130524_7221.jpg
 
deep17_130524_7226.jpg
 
deep17_130524_7232.jpg
 
deep17_130524_7235.jpg
 
deep17_130524_7233.jpg
 
"By the Deep ..."
 
XXXDAn
  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Russia, St.Peterburg
Posted by kirill4 on Saturday, April 30, 2016 2:46 PM

Hi Daniel,

Nice to meet You here and  watch you wonderful  story ! as Great as usualy you did... those your findings, how to treat planking, to make their surface looks more realistic ( that time ,when you removed damaged painting)-it 's somthng! very good effect!

next my model,if it happend somedays...I will use your metod surely! :)

with big pleasure continue to watch your buildings!

All the best!

Kirill

 

  • Member since
    August 2007
  • From: back country of SO-CAL, at the birth place of Naval Aviation
Posted by DUSTER on Saturday, April 30, 2016 2:06 PM

           words are superfluous at this time

 

Steve

Building the perfect model---just not quite yet  Confused

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Ludwigsburg Germany
Posted by dafi on Wednesday, April 27, 2016 7:03 AM
That was the moment that I started to concentrate onto the black´n´yellow version.
 
Got the stub gun carriages fixed on the background messed with paint and gave a brownish oil coat to the barrels as some of the ingredients of the applied coat - rust and tar - suggest ...
 
Deep17_7014.jpg
 
... and the tompions just plain wood without color, sticking out of the barrel a bit as the artifacts in NMM and museums suggest, and not todays fancy colored and crowned gadgets. 
 
Just for fun fitted both versions over the guns :-)
 
Deep17_7010.jpg
 
Deep17_7012.jpg
 
The shoe for the anchor was fixed in the appropriate place means one iron more in the back than heller suggest :-)
 
Deep17_7013.jpg
 
And on it went, some quantum leaps -  means very small and little :-)
 
Fitted the last lid ...
 
deep17_130506_7024.jpg
 
... and fitted with lanyards.
 
deep17_130506_7026.jpg
 
The holes in the brass fittings were deepened into the plastic by means of a hot needle ...
 
deep17_130506_7025.jpg
 
... so the brass is not damaged like with a drill and the deep is automatically fixed by the cones of the needle tip and the size of the hole in the fitting ...
 
deep17_130506_7036b.jpg
 
... and it looks like this.
 
deep17_130506_7033.jpg
 
Grüßle, Daniel
  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Ludwigsburg Germany
Posted by dafi on Monday, April 25, 2016 4:31 PM

Thank you both Robs :-)

I think there are plenty of technics combined. Faint wash, different shadings, chipping and  marks are done by brush.

And I think something like a "new" ship never really existed. As the building took months or even years, the ships were already waethered when going out for the first time. I saw this in a small shipyard in Brittany, one was able to always see, where work was done. Fresh marks of light brown wooden chips in silver aged enviroment :-)

XXXDAn

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by rwiederrich on Monday, April 25, 2016 9:30 AM

Daniel..fantastic weathering.  I always prefer a vessel weathered to represent the actual vessels appearance...NOT out of the box look.  The sea is a brutal element to wood and iron...and it too must be represented in the final analysis...if true accuracy is to be closely achieved.  You've done well.

Rob

  • Member since
    January 2015
Posted by rdiaz on Monday, April 25, 2016 8:41 AM

Awesome weathering Daniel. I'm assuming you used washes for the yellow parts and dry brushing for the black on the bee line version?

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Ludwigsburg Germany
Posted by dafi on Monday, April 25, 2016 7:49 AM
 
At this point I wondered that nobody did moan, as I did not bolt the channel onto the gunwale but on the normal planking atop instead ?!?
 
...
 
...
 
... so dafi does what dafi knows best ...
 
... DESTRUCTION!!! ...
 
deep17_6971.jpg
 
Positively seen, this gave a nice test, if the painting technic is dafiproof - If I mange to cover up the damages caused by this little action, I am on the right way :-)
 
So fixed the channels on the right hight ...
 
deep17_6975.jpg
 
... coverd the holes with the basic color, first layers with three different shades of brown ...
 
deep17_6977.jpg
 
... and drying-washing of-adding more-and-so-on and it goes the right direction :-)
 
deep17_6979.jpg
 
Close enough to the original version, so I am quite happy ;-)
 
Then went on to the more famous version, the Vic in bee-ing (PUN!)
 
 
Then folded, soldered and fitted the deadeyes irons ...
 
deep17_130501_6980.jpg
 
... used the revolutionairy Double-Twin-Super-Drive-Technology for grinding the needle heads for the bolts ...
 
deep17_130501_6985.jpg
 
... put on the batten ...
 
deep17_130501_6989.jpg
 
... and it looks even neater than the ones in P.  :-)
 
deep17_130501_6991.jpg
 
Also added some paint, dirt and rust ...
 
deep17_130501_6998.jpg
 
deep17_130501_7004.jpg
 
deep17_130501_7006.jpg
 
deep17_130501_7009.jpg
 
And more tempting as the 1803 chain irons are the 1765 ones: same length but two pieces more!

Testing the lengths, carefully remembering that the outer ones are longer.

Deep17-130511_7067.jpg

... homeopathic doses of solder ...

Deep17-130511_7075.jpg

... degreased the wire, first soldering the single rings, then joining them on the central part, the flux with the solder embedded, small touch with the hot iron ...

Deep17-130511_7071.jpg

... and the same game with the dead eye and the triple pack ...

Deep17-130511_7090.jpg

... adjusting over the edge of a blade ...

Deep17-130511_7076.jpg

... and comparison: bottom as cut, then solderd and on top adjusted. Inside length 4 mm :-)

Deep17-130511_7083.jpg

A small jack done for thinning the deadeyes ...

deep17_130518_7179.jpg

... and painting them with casein paint to give a better to scale wood appearance than the original wood ...

deep17_130518_7182.jpg

... put on place ...

deep17_130518_7185.jpg

... made the batten to cover the channels ...

deep17_130518_7186.jpg

... and painted and rusted.

deep17_130518_7202.jpg

deep17_130518_7199.jpg

And here the comparison both versions side by side, same ship, only 40 years of difference in between ...
:-)

deep17_130518_7190.jpg
 
... fascinating, as a good friend of mine would say ;-)

 


Cheers, Daniel
  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Saturday, April 23, 2016 7:57 AM

Hi Daniel and welcome to FSM,

I also have been watching your progress and techniques over at MSW.

Scott

  • Member since
    June 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Saturday, April 23, 2016 7:30 AM

Hello Daniel :

   You did know of course ,many of us used the very product you mention , as , our first thinner and brush cleaner . Zippo lighter fluid is good old Naptha .Used it for years .Still do on occasion . It worked great in Testors paints  and still does !

     The H.M.S. Surprise in San Diego shows what I've said for years  .Salt Air , Water and wave action washes out any color and does so with a vengeance ! Ship-modelers need to take this to heart when weathering the model .  Tanker - Builder         P.S. So there's no confusion - I Specialize in Oil , Gas , LNG and other tank ship models Plus I was employed as Captain for some years on the type . , Hence the handle or nick-name

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Ludwigsburg Germany
Posted by dafi on Saturday, April 23, 2016 4:52 AM
(Small flashback)
 
This led me to a new sidekick, as I had 2 samples of the 1805 appearence of the Vic and 2 samples of the 1780 look. So I found a nice idea to compare those two ones to see the development and continue my weathering tests on a parallel road.
 
New timberheads were produced fitting the different versions ...
 
 
Deep17-130408_6562.jpg
 
... and applied.
 
Deep17-130408_6565.jpg
 
Nice to see the differences in the position of the channels, the anchor protections and the timberheads.
 
 (Back to track)
 
deep17_6961.jpg
 
... and also worked on the wasp-twins. So painted, redrawn the grooves, guide is the plastic stripe from a labeling machine ...
 
deep17_6927.jpg
 
... and treated the bottom cast with a diluted blach ink to enhance structures. The top is the usual clean version, seen on most models.
 
deep17_6953.jpg
 
Casted new iron brackets ...
 
deep17_6955.jpg
 
... and applied more mess.
 
deep17_6956.jpg
 
Then added some rust, some scupper delicacies, some rust from all the iron work and some chipped color as nicely to be seen even on todays Vic.
 
deep17_6960.jpg
 
A bit rough at the first moment, but if one consider the ships being out for months on blockade duty, I believe this was not the worst ...
 
And it still looks better than the Surprise in San Diego ...
 
Cheers, Daniel
  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Friday, April 22, 2016 5:38 PM

Daniel,

The eyes, the hair, the smile, etc., etc. Whistling

Mike

April 25th: Looks like Photobucket unlinked my pictures from my previous post so I'll let that go. I've edited it and deleted references to and the pictures of Heidelberg, The Black Forest tourist trap, and the pretty sales girl. Mike

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Ludwigsburg Germany
Posted by dafi on Friday, April 22, 2016 2:54 PM

Thank you Mike for the kind words,

just for clarification: Was the trap the house or the eyes ? ;-)

XXXDAn

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Friday, April 22, 2016 12:38 PM

Daniel,

I just want to let you know how impressed I am with the Victory you're building on Model Ship World. Your stamina, determination, and skill are truly remarkable.

I've only been within about 45 miles of where you live - back in 2007, but I was taken with how beautiful many of the places in Germany are.

Mike

 

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Ludwigsburg Germany
Posted by dafi on Friday, April 22, 2016 8:24 AM

Hello Roberto,

yes this was the enamel, but I think the aquacolor would do the job too as they are NOT water solulable once dry.

 

The Pelikan paint is this one https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_2_13?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=pelikan+plaka+paint&sprefix=pelikan+plaka+paint%2Caps%2C272

Cheers, Daniel

 

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