Building a Revell 1/96 Kearsarge

I am wanting a CSS Alabama for my next build. If anyone comes across a reasonble deal on one or has one they would like to part with. Please give me a yell.  Gene, once this weather changes a bit we will have to get together so I can see your ships up close.... Dale

But she never ported in the US. She was overhauled last in France. If you were to ask me apropos of nothing I would guess she might have been dark blue or dark red.

I've had time to continue my reading and I located info on some CSN ship colors.

I located a source for the "lead color" for the CSS Florida.

Official Records of the Union and Confederate Navies in the War of the Rebellion.  page 639  (Multiple other pages also speak of a "lead color" for Floriida.)

A Fog Color is mentioned for two Confederate side-wheel blockade runners                 (pg 192-193).

Link:https://books.google.com/books?id=jMp2N4xxxmIC&pg=PA639&lpg=PA639&dq=css+florida++lead+color&source=bl&ots=1rZqY3jdZj&sig=xrUGeuY990PCUQRDHOt0bJRIAeI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjv9N3eksLYAhVLdt8KHXdCAR0Q6AEIMDAB#v=snippet&q=lead%20color&f=false

   Nino

 Edit:  My post above was to complete my earlier post. I did not want my comment about "Grey" to go un-referenced.

"... I am still looking for the reference that I recalled for the CSS Florida being "lead colored" (Grey?). Could be that is the reason some Modelers did their Alabama grey..."

warshipguy

Steve,

Those are excellent photos of the model!  I like the colors and may repaint mine accordingly. Also, Mike and Steve5 are helping me to learn how to post, so I might start my thread on the Alabama in the next day or so.

Bill,

Thanks, they are great pictures and I love the way she is painted in this redition. Sleek and mean! Looking forward to seeing your Alabama! Stay safe with are that weather you guys are getting. 

Steve

gene1

Steve, docidle, I'm sorry not to have answered you on the FSM articles. I checked my stack of FSM magazines & did not find any 2012 July & Sep. I am sort of committed to the colors I have now & I hand painted the inside Bulwarks in a Buff color. I do like it much better as everything will show up better. I had to mask my finished deck with thin strips of tape. I hope that Bill finds out something on colors.

 

Gene,

Don’t worry about it. My boys just started school today after Winter Break and my beautiful wife has a deadline to make, so bench time will be at a premium. Hopefully I can get those articles scanned this weekend and post them or PM  you. 

Steve

  I'm back, with 2 eye's . It lasted about an hour & I have been on the Alabama all day after that. Got all the shroud base's on & a lot of painting done. My cannons are due tomorrow. I will probably paint them right away. Love the cannons, lot's of detail. Darn Bill, these big models are more fun to build. .

Bill, I sort of follow you around like a puppy dog. We are getting snow here too, but it has been getting close to zero here for the whole week. Back in 1993 in March we had a blizzard & got 3' of snow on the level & 5' drifts. OOPS ,I am getting an optical migraine, no pain just the eyes go out for a half hour or so. My eye doctor , a super one says they are mostly harmless . More later.

Gene,

Yes, I saw that Youtube video series and am using it as a reference.  I have been working on the photo issue as well this morning. We are currently getting hammered by that snow storm. The entire state is shut down.  We have accumulated approximately 8 inches so far with a total of 17 projected.  It's a great modeling day!

Bill

Bill, you are doing everything right & spending a lot of time on changing gunports. I am building it with not many changes. I told you I did change the bulwarks color to a buff & do like it much better. My green was a lot darker. It was not a dark green, but looked that way.

  Have you seen the utube 5 part post on the internet ? He did do a lot of research on the changes you made on gunports & colors & a lot more. In part 5 he is still not finished but I have not found anymore posts. I got the metalic waterline from him.. I did do the blue windows in the stern & have seen that a lot in models & pictures. It does close the rear openings up on the inside. He closed them from the outside. 

   I am really looking forward to your pictures.

Steve, docidle, I'm sorry not to have answered you on the FSM articles. I checked my stack of FSM magazines & did not find any 2012 July & Sep. I am sort of committed to the colors I have now & I hand painted the inside Bulwarks in a Buff color. I do like it much better as everything will show up better. I had to mask my finished deck with thin strips of tape. I hope that Bill finds out something on colors.

warshipguy

... I am also experimenting with www.postimages.com with Mike's and Steve5's help.  I have uploaded a few photos and am working on posting them in a seperate thread on the Alabama.  Finally, I have contacted the Nautical Research Guild to get their take on this discussion about the Alabama's colors.

Bill

 

   Bill,

       I am still looking for the reference that I recalled for the CSS Florida being "lead colored" ( Grey?). Could be that is the reason some Modelers did their Alabama grey as these confederate Raiders were similar in design, purpose and time. (I feel like it was from a letter or recorded comment in some History book I read years ago.)

     It is too bad that Paintings are difficult to depend on.  Did the artist ever see the actual ship close-up?  Did Capt. Semmes really tell the truth about the Alabama colors? To this day certain aspects of Cold War US Navy ships are still secret or misleading info is supplied. Maybe Semmes felt that way about Alabama's disguises should the South rise again.

     I could well imagine the Alabama had some ornate paint work to instill pride in the ship, although I am conflicted on a colorful hull. Did Alabama want to be indistinguishable from a merchantman? I would think owners of such ships would not waste profit on painting them in expensive colors. However, I would not doubt that re-painting the ship frequently to fool the Union searchers would be an excellent stratagem. 

     I would like to know about a waterline painted on the Alabama and what color. Also, there are various anecdotal comments that the masts were "Bright" (bare wood), Buff, White, and/or Black. What were they really?

      The pictures and write-ups we have on Civil War ships seem to show most ships with dark or probably black hulls. However, we do have evidence of Paint color in several warships inventory. The Harriet Lane comes to mind as I recall an article proving that Green paint was offloaded from her. So she MAY have had a Green hull. Not to mention the record of Blue paint in stores on the Kearsarge.  I read in an old NRG articles that Blue was possibly used for the water-ways on the Kearsarge. And, of course, the USS Constitution Hull and gun port colors over the years.

      I have the NRG's CD collection of editions 41-50.  It has a terrific multi-part write-up on  "Reconstructing Kearsarge, 1864, A tale of two models".  I wish they had one on the Alabama. I will PM you after I do some serious reading with my estimate of the CD's articles.

   Keep at it with Post-image. Once you have pictures uploaded, it's a snap to add it to your FSM post.

     Jim.

Edit:  I located a source for the "lead color" for the CSS Florida.

Official Records of the Union and Confederate Navies in the War of the Rebellion  page 639 

Multiple other pages also speak of a "lead color" for Floriida. A Fog Color is mentioned for two Confederate side-wheeler blockade runners(pg 192-193).

Link:https://books.google.com/books?id=jMp2N4xxxmIC&pg=PA639&lpg=PA639&dq=css+florida++lead+color&source=bl&ots=1rZqY3jdZj&sig=xrUGeuY990PCUQRDHOt0bJRIAeI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjv9N3eksLYAhVLdt8KHXdCAR0Q6AEIMDAB#v=snippet&q=lead%20color&f=false

Gene,

You seem to be much further along than I.  I have been working on the gunports and scuttles, as well as various subassemblies.  I am also experimenting with www.postimages.com with Mike's and Steve5's help.  I have uploaded a few photos and am working on posting them in a seperate thread on the Alabama.  Finally, I have contacted the Nautical Research Guild to get their take on this discussion about the Alabama's colors.

Bill

Come on Bill get us a thread on the Alabama, we are all anxious to see your Alabama. After hearing you say you were going to paint your bulwarks oxide yellow, I decided to do it too. I masked the deck with thin strips & brushed Tamiya Buff on it. I do like it better as the green I mixed was a little dark, & would have lost detail. I think it will turn out a lot better. 

 Have you put the shroud base parts on yet? I added a 1/32 sq styrene strip along the bottom blocks to tie the bottom block down better. Gm posted about all that & I have always disliked anything to do with the strain of rigging on plastic ships. I have always tied things down that take strain.I cut the eyebolts off that are cast on the bowsprit etc & replace with brass or copper. I used al metal eyebolts on the Kearsarge deck & everywhere. 

U.S.S.KEARSAGE picture of her Civil War appearance. This illustration might be of some help.

Happy modeling     Crackers   

Thank you Steve & Jim, but I am a little far along to change anything. My hull black & dark gray is sort of a tradeoff that will vary from the Kearsarge. have put on all the belaying pins & am on the shroud tables. They are really different & you want to leave them on the tree until you are ready to glue, or at least leave thieir numbers on them.I am glueing them with CA as I left everything unpainted & that is the only way I use CA. 

  GM, I have always done everything the way you ddescibed & you are right. I use metal eyebolts, beef up or pin anything that takes a strain, I use a lot of 560 white glue as it is super strong.

CapnMac82

I've been searching through my stuff, attempting to scratch a nagging itch.  You see, I have this memory of a scholarly essay on the color of Alabama.  The author made quite a case for an all-over yellow ocher with black bulwarks and furniture.

Which would make a dramatic model.

Such a color is not without precedent, Constitution wore an all ocher paint scheme with a red gunport stripe for a circumnavigation cruise.

Naturally, I'm not finding the article.

But, it would be a dramatic pairing next to the staid, conservitive, frugal USN paint scheme on Kearserge.

 

Capn, 

You are correct, that would be a rather dramatic model. I’m almost tempted to pick up a Revell 1/196 scale Constitution and paint it in those colors!

Steve

gene1

Steve, thanks & I would appreciate the FSM article. I might have it as I have a bunch of my old FSM's. Do you know about when it was?  On the mast rake, I thought of filing a small amount from the rear of the stub that fits into the deck. It already has a slight rear slant the same as the kearsarge. It only need about 7or 8 degree slant. The way I do my standing rigging & shrouds, they do hold the mast where I put it.

  We all hope that Bill will put his pictures on soon. I plan on doing a second Alabama & will use more aftermarket on it. I loved doing the Kearsarge, a beautiful model. Better than Imai in a lot of respects.

 

Gene,

The articles are in the July and September 2012 issues of FSM. If you do not have them, let me know and I’ll scan them as best I can and send them to you. The articles are really a teaser, just enough information to wet you ur appetite but not thorough enough to answer all my questions.

Steve

     Does Anyone have any pictures of the Kearsarge model which was in the Maine Maritime Museum in Bath?  It is supposedly a very good representation of the original Plans of the ship. 

     A point of interest on color regarding a contemporary of Alabama, the Confederate States Ship Florida.  I recall reading the Hull above the water line was "lead colored".   I will look for the reference. Sloop CSS Florida had 2 Stacks. 

        Nino

I've been searching through my stuff, attempting to scratch a nagging itch.  You see, I have this memory of a scholarly essay on the color of Alabama.  The author made quite a case for an all-over yellow ocher with black bulwarks and furniture.

Which would make a dramatic model.

Such a color is not without precedent, Constitution wore an all ocher paint scheme with a red gunport stripe for a circumnavigation cruise.

Naturally, I'm not finding the article.

But, it would be a dramatic pairing next to the staid, conservitive, frugal USN paint scheme on Kearserge.

Steve,

Those are excellent photos of the model!  I like the colors and may repaint mine accordingly. Also, Mike and Steve5 are helping me to learn how to post, so I might start my thread on the Alabama in the next day or so.

Bill

So you touch on another general issue with the big Revell kits. Putting tension on the backstays, shrouds and such all relies on the integrity of the end point anchors. 

The plastic eyes are completely worthless. The pin rails really can't be depended on to stay simply glued to the bulwarks. And even the shrouds depend on how well the channels, which the deadeyes attach to on most ships, and attached to the outside of the hull.

The eyes on the decks are best replaced with either wire or photo etched parts, the tails bent over under the deck if possible.

I like to drill and pin the pinrails and the channels to the hull, with pins that go all the way through. If that shows, it can be covered up pretty easily.

On a whim I also measured the rake from a drawing, 8 degrees seems about right.

Can you run a rod from the mast down to a block on the keel? It'd be much more reliable.

The pictures we are getting are great. On the rake of the masts on the Alabama , as far as I can measure it is about 8 or 9 degrees. The kit has a built in rake, just like the Kearsarge has. I want to try filing the rear of the stub that fits in the deck heavier at the top to create a rake angle to the rear & put a wedge in the front to hold it.My standing rigging & shrouds do hold the masts well.

  I will put a temp base on my Alabama today & try to get a new post with pictures today or tomorrow.I might go with mostly black on the furniture . I change as I go along. I think the buff interior bulwarks is real good.            

A naval officer and marine detachment aboard the U.S.S. Kearsarge, Photo taken in 1864.

Library of Congress collection.

Happy modeling    Crackers  

I found the photos I was speaking of earlier. They are from the Williamson Art Gallery and Wirral Museums in England but was originally in the offices of the Laird’s Shipyard.

It shows the bulwarks painted in a Yellow Oxide/Buff color with the hull completely in Black. I plan on using this as my “prototype“ on my Alabama build. Which I think someone is going to have to start a thread on.... also note that the framing of the false stern windows is Gold.

Steve

 Bill, I am going with a mix of black & German gray for the hull & the thin water line,according to one builder who did seem like he did a lot of research,a metalic gun metal ,my inside bulwarks is olive green mix that I got from you & like. dark gray for the furniture. It will sit next to the Kearsarge & I wanted as much difference as possible.

 We know what colors the Kearsarge was pretty much & it is done (nearly, the boarding steps.) On the Alabama, I painted the waterline & masked it so I could brush a line above in the black mix . I want to glue all the things on the outer hull before I paint the rest.

Hence, the question. There are no references of which I am aware that speak of her external colors, only her black deck furniture.  Your point that there are many colors that render in grey in B&W photos is my point. There are many models and paintings available, all secondary or tertiary sources, depicting the Alabama in different colors, all of which show up gray in B&W photos.  Green is a distict and intriguing possibility.  Hmmm . . .

Bill

There are a lot of colors which will render grey in B&W photos.

Which invited, to my mind, healthy speculation on just what color might have been used.

As a merchant raider, it seems apt that a less-military color might have been chosen.  I have seen speculation that the ship might have been a lavender or periwinkle color--that seems unlikely, if possible.  A brick red also could be possible, but, I like the speculation on green.  Green is a merchant's color; rich, but easy to upkeep.  A non-threatening color until the first shell flies across your bow.

But, that's all speculation, whihch leaves us free to model what we want.

     Bills,

     Yes I agree. I have quite a collection of picture files of the model, in wood, plastic and scratch, by some excellent modelers.  Only a couple used grey.  Most went black.  If doing an "As Sunk" model, my feeling is that since the ship left Singapore in Dec 1863 and ened up in Cherborg in June 1864, that there would have been heavy wheathering.  I doubt any sailor went over the side to scrape and paint back then. So if no anchorage is mentioned in the memoirs, then NATO black, Rubber black, Gunship grey, perhaps German grey (Panzer grey)  or a really nice "Lighter Shade" of Black, might be the most appropriate.  When I build my 1st Alabama I will do my best to emulate whatever Gene does.  I will want to make it look different from Kearsarge, otherwise they are tough to tell apart to an untrained I.   ( yes, I mean me...)

     Regarding "As Sunk": Supposedly the copper plates were in terrible shape at this time, (although I had read that the plates above the water-line were cleaned up while in Cherborg), so it could be safe to assume the hull was weathered to a salt-sea exposed wood effect- a beautiful deep Grey with texture. I guess color depends on the time frame chosen.

         Nino

Edit:  I added/changed a few words for clarity- The Paint colors I mentioned are Tamiya Spray can colors. It's good that English is my primary language- but it didn't help much after a few Corona's. It was a long New Years eve...

 Additional note... The French Authorities refused Dry-dock facitities to CSS Alabama so no major refit to Alabama was done before the battle.

Jim,

That's the one!  One thing seems clear; she was not a light gray.  But, black & white photos are problematic.  I agree with the other Bill that the best approach might be a subdued shade of black, perhaps a very dark gray. I will experiment on mine.

Bill

warshipguy

Gene,

I believe that the black exterior looks better than gray. But, there is one famous photo showing the Alabama in port somewhere showing her port side. It looks like a dark (or light in some prints) gray rather than black.  There are many models of her in museums showing both black and gray.  I have found no references either way other than paintings and models that show the ship in both schemes.  It's a toss up. 

Bill

 

 Bill,

  Your memory is on the nose.  I recalled the picture but I did not know when/where the picture was taken till you mentioned it. I had to locate the original links again. It took me awhile but It's New Years and I was up anyway. There are several versions of the 1863 Singapore visit  photo.

  The B/W one:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VmndOmHAAIo/UAcZ1vfLXdI/AAAAAAAAAqY/InfxU3VZU5Y/s1600/AlabamaSingapre2.jpg      

A Sepia toned one:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uCJXSFDVwOs/UxVIu8_snEI/AAAAAAAACh8/OhhD-fyH6Z4/s1600/alabama_lee_photo.jpg

And a slightly larger image (below) at  https://civilwartalk.com/threads/css-alabama.26286/

And a "painted" one:

http://www.nas.gov.sg/archivesonline/watermark/picas_data/tn_pcd/19980005825-8106-3181-7915/img0071.jpg

       Happy new year.

                 Jim