USS Arizona Memorial - Revell, Shapeways - 1/426:1/429 scale - by SigEp Ziggy

Raymond G

Please keep up the good work on such a worthy project. Raymond

Thank you Raymond for your words of encouragement and for showing interest in my build. I have to admit, it has been great fun so far.

HooYah Deep Sea

You can make them from 3 rings and stiff piano wire. The work gets busy, but its do-able, though I probably wouldn't try on any scale smaller than 1/350.

 

Now that you say that, I can remember an article and pics in a mag years ago on doing that.

But I have more money than patience........

Yes Goldhammer, That's where I got the thought, I recalled that article. I too do not remember where I saw it, but it stuck in my brain. 

Lookin good!

Quad 1.1" gun tubs are available in 1/426 scale and so are accurate 14" triple turrets with barrels.  Not needed for this project, accurate fighting tops are available too.

Tennessee class cage masts are available in 1/350 scale.  They can't be 3D printed in smaller scales either by Shapeways or by me in gray resin with the tech either of us use.  But, as was said above, Carl Alsop at 3D Modelparts offers cage masts in 1/700 scale using an entirely different kind of tech that is better optimized for smaller objects.  He may be able to re-scale his 1/700 scale cage masts to 1/426 scale depending on how large the build platform workspace of his 3D printer is.*  If interested, recommend contacting Carl and asking him.  He is helpful and receptive.

* According to the original Revell Arizona kit design documents held by Loren Perry of Gold Medal Models, the Revell kit is actually 1/429 scale.  Loren explains that the kit's original box erroneously stated the kit as 1/426 scale, probably just a simple copy error during box art and layout creation, and the error stuck with subsequent box printings.  The difference in scale isn't much, but might affect the fit of larger aftermarket products for the kit such as 3D-printed superstructures, funnels and turrets created in CAD.  For this reason, Model Monkey designs are precisely scaled to 1/429 for best fit, but labeled 1/426 to be consistent with Revell kit packaging.

Thanks for the info Steve, it would be great to build the Arizona with cage masts.

Will be working on mine as time permits. Update posts to follow.

Model Shipwrights did a model of the wreck in 2010, however, the photos are no longer supported. Too bad 

Monkey Dude, I need 1/350 scale 1.1" gun tubs (Aft, USS Arizona), I saw that you make them in 1/429; and you might want to make the gun director platform that goes with. Actual platform was 6' in diameter and sits even with gun tub rim height, on a 2' diameter post. So, it basically looks like a flat top mushroom! They never got around to installing the railing or mini tub on top.

Also, open and closed chocks and bitts and bollards for 1/350.

Hey Ziggy, Well, ya got my interest up so I decided to join you; Going to go "As Sunk, Circa 1960's" in 1/350 scale. It's been a while so we'll see how it goes.

Very Cool HooYah! Are you going to post your build here on finescale.com? Can't wait to see it, if you do.  Hobby Boss for the build? I see it sell for around $50. Me personally, I buy from someone in the states and pay more. I plan on using the Hobby Boss Arizona to kitbash the USS Idaho.

I have been working on my build very slowly and a fellow modeller helped me out with some photo etch to use as railing for the dock and memorial.

Mine's an old Banner kit, and yes I'll post the process here. I'm going to start a new thread so as not to trample your build.

Great job, Ziggy!

HooYah Deep Sea

Monkey Dude, I need 1/350 scale 1.1" gun tubs (Aft, USS Arizona), I saw that you make them in 1/429; and you might want to make the gun director platform that goes with...Also, open and closed chocks and bitts and bollards for 1/350.

Good news, the 1.1 inch gun tubs are available in 1/350.  The forward 1.1 inch Mk.49 director platforms, the pair fit to the superstructure near the navigating bridge, are also available, but not the aft platforms.

Arizona products I offer are available in 1/350 scale and other popular scales, too, including 1/720, 1/700, 1/426 (1/429 true scale), 1/200, 1/192, and 1/96.  Products include three different superstructures and turret sets as-built and as sunk. Nameplates are available, also.

Chocks are not printable in 1/350 scale.  Their features are too fine to survive the printing and cleaning process.  They are available in 1/200 scale and larger.

Please poke around the catalog.

Hope this helps!

Well, that is good news, but I'm curious as to why on the gun tubs, you went with a square base vice the round one. All of the drawings I've seen of Arizona's aft tubs were on round bases. As I'm doing an 'As Sunk' version, I won't be needing the superstructure director bases. I will figure out how to build the aft director bases; should be fairly simple. Thanks for the note though, and I will be picking up a set of those gun tubs.

HooYah Deep Sea

...I'm curious as to why on the gun tubs, you went with a square base vice the round one.

Good question. There was a discussion of this feature on Modelwarships.com some years ago.  Link to discussion on page 85 on Arizona thread: http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=12942&start=1680

A high-resolution photograph of Arizona, taken in January, 1941 during a refit at Puget Sound obtained from the National Archives (NARA), confirms the bases of Arizona's aft tubs were square.  I'd post the photo here but it is over 19 MB in size. 

A lower-resolution copy of that photo exists on page 91 of the thread linked above.  Link to crop of that photo: http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/download/file.php?id=82905&mode=view

Although the bases are difficult to see at the lower resolution, the shape of the base is indicated by the geometry of the tubs' angled supports (the supports that extend from the base at an angle to the bottom edge of the tub).  A circular base supporting a circular tub has angled supports that are identical in shape.  A square base supporting a circular tub has supports that vary in shape and length depending on their position on the square (supports at the base's corners will be shorter).  The supports visible in the low-res photo vary in size and shape indicating a square base.

The square tub base visible in the Puget Sound photo matches even better high resolution photos of sistership Pennsylvania's aft square-base tubs, taken at Mare Island in early 1942, and those of Nevada. This confirms that Pennsylvania and Nevada had square-base tubs, too, of the same design.  US Navy general arrangement plans of Oklahoma indicate her tubs had square bases.  Maryland certainly had square-base tubs.  Link: http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/download/file.php?id=82904&mode=view

You can see the square base on Nevada's aft tubs very clearly in photographs on page 95 of that thread (about 2/3rds down).  Link:  http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=12942&start=1880 

Unlike Arizona, high resolution photos of Tennessee and California from NARA confirm their aft tubs had round bases and different shielding reinforcement (interior ribs).

Based on the careful analysis and comparison of the NARA photos of Arizona, Pennsylvania, Nevada and Maryland, and Navy drawings of Oklahoma, it is my opinion that kit manufacturer's generally get their Arizona kit's aft gun tub base shape wrong, if they have a base at all.  Some kits erroneously mold the tubs on the deck.

Hope this helps.

Thank you for the response and the preponderance of evidence. I just checked Stillwell's book again and his art appears to support your claims. So, I stand humbly educated. Thanks again.

Brian

Started working on the layout, measuring and cuting out the shape for the mud line, also worked on the hull and the rear/aft deck.

Interesting, are those the Mk-19 platforms that you converted into 1.1" tubs? Great idea. Oh, and don't forget to lose the paravanes on the sides of the hull.

Steve, I meant to thank you sooner, but thank you for your info, comments and the parts/catalog you provide us modelers.

HooYah, you are correct about the 1.1 tubs, trying to make use of the part I have left over. Question, should the range finder pedestal for the 1.1 guns be scale 6 feet tall?

The actual pedestals for the aft 1.1" guns are columns 2' in diameter with platforms 6' in diameter, They stand about even with the finished rim of the gun tub. 

Here is the starboard side director platform, note the curved edge of the gun tub next to it. The actual height may be more than 6'. The gun tub was about 14' on diameter.

something is wrong with your picture as does not match structurally with this picture.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/013944b.jpg

In the picture you posted, you cannot see the 1.1" gun tubs, they are under the memorial. The picture I posted is looking down through one of the openings in the deck of the memorial.

The round 'open' pipe-like thing is the starboard crane kingpost.

& is not the director's pedestal be 2' square not diameter as was discussed with Steve above?

Steve and I were discussing the pedestal for the gun tub being square; but the pedestal for the director platform is most definately round. That I have actually seen. On the ship today (or when I was there back in the 1980's) you can't see the pedestal for the gun tub as it is under the silt  that has accumulated there. the silt 'bank' starts about even with the forward side of the #3 barbette, and builds up to about 2/3's the height of the bulkhead at frame 88. Back in the day, with the poor visibility, it looked like the tub nearly sat on the deck, but the director pedestals stick above that.

Based on the Arizona's 1941 Booklet of General Plans,  the measurement for the  1.1" Gun  Tub is 14' in diameter.    The existing belief is for an approximate 8' Square base as in the USS Oklahoma plans and as shown in a photo of USS Maryland.

Link:   http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=12942&start=1860   Another member interperted the plans to indicate a 22" diameter pole to support the gun director platform.    Somethung extra... I did not recall these two Drawings being posted here before. Arizona "submerged" :   Alt link for image:  https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/tucson.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/8/ac/8acd8a1c-ac2b-11e6-830a-0bc5709966ce/582ca71966c76.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C926       .

HooYah Deep Sea

The actual pedestals for the aft 1.1" gun (Directors) are columns 2' in diameter with platforms 6' in diameter, They stand about even with the finished rim of the gun tub. 

For a better perspective of this photo...

   Nino

At the risk of sounding callous, and that some of my work is reflected in those drawings, the NPS drawings are started on a blank sheet of paper, so to speak. This means that if someone mis-measures, then it gets draw in, still incorrect. Some of these measurement were done under real poor visibility conditions whic caused some errors. For examples, on 1984 drawing (the upper one), on the port side of barbette 4 there is a hatch laid out at an angle. That was because the diver measured off the gunnel, but did not realize that the deck edge is 'scalloped' there. so they drew his data in incorrect. Also, on both drawings turret 2 gunhouse sides have chunks 'missing'. In actuality they don't. and any picture postcard photo of the ship will show that.

What this all says is that despite drawings noted as 'official', they may not be accurate. One must use a variety of source material and gleen what you can, with an open mind.

Working on the hull and getting ready to glue decks on.  Also I'll post a photo of the drawing on the memorial that shows the correct position of the viewing well and where HooYah's photo was taken.

I purchased some 1/2 MDF and will be starting the base of the diorama.

Here are reduced-size scans of two of the architectual builder's plans of the Arizona Memorial including the mooring quays drawn by Naval Facilities Engineering Command (NFEC) at Makalapa, Hawaii, recorded 30 August 1977.  The drawings may be helpful to you.  

Larger scans of these drawings and other NFEC drawings were used to create the Model Monkey 3D-printed Arizona Memorial and mooring quays.

The plans show the correct location of the viewing well, the correct shape of the quays, and their relative position to the wreck, the Memorial and each other.  The viewing well position in the 3D-printed Arizona Memorial model matches the position as recorded in the official Navy blueprints.

Hope this helps!

Thanks Steve, you don't how much this helps. I will be working on memorial soon and your Model Monkey's moorings!

Making a little progress on the USS Arizona.

Working on the details of the aft deck and put a coat of paint on the Memorial!

Still adding details...