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US Navy 5"38 Mark 28 Twin Turret in 1/35 Scale with Full Cutaway down to the Magazines

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  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Louisville, KY
Posted by Builder 2010 on Monday, July 31, 2023 10:48 AM

With my decision to go cold turkey and do it all from sratch, design work has begun in earnest. While I don't have fully dimensioned drawings for everything, I found another manual that fully details every aspect of the twin turrets and gave me enough specifics about the Mark 28 so I can get many important things right. As a result, I have fully TYdrawn to exact specifications the armored gun house.

The Mark 28's armor thickness was 2". That's 0.040" in 1:48, so using that sheet thickness, not only is very workable, but is correct scale thickness. I didn't have the luxury with the big gun. In 1:72, the 1" wall partitions would have been 0.010" sheet which is too thin to be practical. On the Mark 28, the armor plates are attached to internal angle braces by countersunk bolts and rivets. I was incorrect earlier when I said it was welded. There are a few exposed bolts where the floor framing members tie into the walls. Also I'm striking out finding pre-made 14" drop rungs wirh bolt rings. I already printed them for the big gun and can use the same drawing scaled up to make them for this one. I they held together at 1:72, they'll do well at 1:48.

I have actual diameter measures of the base ring and training gear so I chose to start here. I also have a section drawing across the ring which I scaled. I placed the profile on a ring that corresponded to the base's overall shape.

Using the "FOLLOW ME" tool (select the ring, select FOLLOW ME and then select the profile) and the program magically lathes the profile around the circumference. The counterbore and the land represent the lateral and tapered roller bearings on which the rotating mass revolves. I'm not going to detail the bearing. Unlike the monsters in the big gun, these would be almost indistinguishable in 1:48.

I learned how to do internal ring gears in building the big gun, but I'll quickly review it. I have an add-in to make volute gears. You enter the number of teeth, the pressure angle, and the pitch circle radius and Voila!, it draws a gear as a separate item. It only draws external pinion gears, not internal ring gears. I was able to find the exact number of teeth and the pitch circle diameter of the Mark 28's, and with those numbers drew the external gear. I also had the outside diameter of the gear which was the inside diameter of the bottom counterbore. I centered the external gear over a filled circle of the outer diameter and INTERSECTED the faces. I now had a drawing of a filled circle with line drawing of the internal teeth inscribed on it. I delected the inside, and then PUSH-PULLED the remainder to the height of the full gear as shown on my scaled cutaway drawings. All in all it took as long to do it as to write this paragraph.

I inserted the completed gear into the base ring.

The last things to do was add the reinforcing ribs and the nut/bolt/washer N/B/W images on the ring flange. I made one rib based on profile drawings and counted the number on the prototype. Looked like there we 32 of them. In SU, you use the rotation tool, with the center placed in the ring's center. You move/copy a single rib 11.2 degrees corresponding to the gap between them, and then key *31, the program copies the rest equally around the ring. It's "31" not "32" because you've already copied one.

I did the same thing with the N/B/Ws making a set of two and copying them around the ring.

Because the geometry is so regular and one dimensional, I am going to attmpt print the entire part directly on the build plate. It will all depend on the build plate's ability to hold onto the part during the formation of the base perimeter layers which have the greatest amount of surface area. I those layers stay put, the rest of the print will be no problem. I will only take about 20 minutes to print, so I won't have long to wait.

If I was printing this part in 1/35 instead of 1/48, it would not fit this way and would have to tilted. Without tilting, there are no supports to deal with and details come out perfectly.

With accurate overall gun house enclosure dimensions and wall thicknesses, I was able to adjust my frame drawing so it was exact. If I was using the kit, I would have to wait until I could meassure it directly before finalizing the frame. I also had the exact diameter of the ring that connects the rotating to the fixed structure and attached it to the frame. I moved the training buffer inboard of the frame extremis to conform to the Mark 28 configuration.

Again, in 1:48, this fits the printer nicely and will be a single part. This ensures perfect alignment of this important structure.

  

Last part I detailed was another critical one; the guns. I had good profile drawings so I was able to create the correct straight and tapered portions. I added some rifling. There are 40 lands, but did not add any twist. You're only going to visualize the very outer edges of it. The outer lip of the muzzle is rounded. I will do this as a post-print operation.

I'm trying two print schemes: Directly on the build plate and raised off. Since it's so symetrical, it can be printed straight up with no overhangs or islands. While it should print directly, I'm thinking that raising it will facilitate liquid resin draining from the bore.

We'll see which one wins. Unlike the ring gear which had little height, the guns will take over 6 hours to print. In LCD resin printing height is the key varialble in print time.

I found excellent elevation views of the all-important gun mount castings and will tackle them next. Also found good information about the complicated projectile hoists.

I actually need more information about the floor plan of the projectile handling room and the powder and projectile magazines on the 3rd deck.

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Saturday, July 29, 2023 3:10 PM

Hi!

 You are right! The Boxart shows the gun as seen on the o-1 deck unit

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Friday, July 28, 2023 4:01 PM

Oh boy!  Given your last gun build the turret will be the easy part for you!

Kit is available on Amazon if you want to go that way

https://www.amazon.com/TAKOM-U-S-Navy-Barrels-Plastic-TKO2146/dp/B09FSQ1FML

 

Thanks,

John

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Louisville, KY
Posted by Builder 2010 on Friday, July 28, 2023 1:58 PM

Yessir! I will be doing it again, only this time with a twist. When my LHS told me the Takom model was in, I went to pick it up, only to find that they had ordered the 16" turret. We all know how that turned out. And... the 5" turret is out of stock...EVERYWHERE! So what to do?

Since I've already told the ship I'm building this, I feel committed. So now I've decided to scratch-build the entire thing. All that this requires is the gun house shell, the ring base, Officer's cupola and the guns themselves. It's the guns that I'm missing most since they were metal turned barrels included in the kit. 

As I noted, the kit's based on the Mark 38 destroyer version, not the Mark 28 Iowa-class version. That would have required some kitbashing. Now I'm no longer constrained by the kit's inaccuracies or it's scale. I can choose whatever scale I want. I could find a machine shop in town that could do the barrels for me, or I could 3D print them. Since that will cost be basically nothing, I will go that route first. If it doesn't work, I can go to plan B with a machined barrel. Since the kit included these parts, I suspect finding the barrels themselves on the aftermarket will be difficult.

My little Taig lathe could turn the barrels, but it's not really suited to turn long tapers. Ideally, the barrels should be produced on a Swiss-type screw machine that are designed to produce long, slender objects.

So the game is afoot.

I als need to get some diamond plate for the gun house flooring panels. Even this could be 3D printed depending on the scale I choose.

Stay tuned... this could be a little rough.

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Saturday, July 22, 2023 2:17 PM

Unbelievable! He's doing it again! I'll be watching!

Good luck!

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Louisville, KY
US Navy 5"38 Mark 28 Twin Turret in 1/35 Scale with Full Cutaway down to the Magazines
Posted by Builder 2010 on Saturday, July 22, 2023 9:48 AM

After the success of building the 1/72 scale 16" Turret from Keel to Gunhouse, the Battleship New Jersey Museum and Memorial has agreed to permanently display a similar rendition of the 5"38 Mark 28 Twin-Gun, Multipurpose Gun found on almost every WW2 (and later) ship.

To refresh your memory, here’s the 16" project as presented to the ship.

 

 

When Takom came out with the 1/35 kit of the 5" Twin turret I thought just maybe doing it again.

 

 

I contacted Ryan Syzmanski, the Big J’s curator, and asked if he would like to have a companion to the 16" turret now on permanent display in the Ship’s ward room. He immediately responded that it would be a good addition.

I’d been collecting reference information about the twin turrets (and the 40mm quads) for years along with my 16" research, but this past week got into full swing. That includes reading the entire service manual of the turret. Service manuals give you some line drawings that are exceptional value.

I had a lot of lessons learned with the 16" project and hope to apply them on this build. I’ve also had in the back of my mind that other muesum ships may want similar models. As far as I know, no one had ever created an Iowa turret complex like the one I built and have similar thoughts about the 5"38s based on my internet searches.

One of the first things I learned is don’t get too far into the design until you have the model in hand. I had a terrible time getting the main gun alignment with the Iowa turret since it was dependent on the openings in the front face of the plastic gun house regardless of what the plans showed. The Takom kit comes with the metal barrels included so I won’t have to special order that.

I imported relevant drawings into SketchUp 2023 and scaled them based on the actual sizes given on the one drawing that shows some critical dimensions. With that I could be secure in the knowledge that all the drawings were agreeing with each other. As with the Iowa, most of the drawings had no dimensions so it was all about good estimating.

 

 

I’ve already done too much desiging the subframe that supports the two pairs of gun mounts. For example: Just looking at the box art I see that the training buffer (device to stop rotation before the turret hits something it shouldn’t) is already attached to the exterior of the turret. I don’t see that detail like that on the battleship turrets. So I have to do more research. While the guns were essentially the same in all of its applications, there were slight differences. I’m doing the battleship version. Another example is the base ring. I can tell already that the box art is not a battlehsip application.

While my drawings show pretty good renditions of the floor plans of the turret, I have no idea how this relates to the Takom model. My main reason for doing the drawing was to ensure that my 3D printer could produce it in a single part. I just fits.

This is the subframe.

 

 

And he it is tentatively put on the 3D printer slice (ChiTuBox). I am not printing this! I don’t know if it’s correct or not until I get the model. My LHS has ordered another kit since he sold his last one.

Here’s the test piece on the slicer. The red areas are out of the print range, but are just small parts of the raft that won’t matter. That said, every other angle to which I rotate the object puts some part of the actual part out of the print range. So it JUST FITS. Convenient!

 

 

I have the Takom Apache to build so this project may or may not get started first. Depends on when I receive the Takom 5" turret model. I’ll start the Apache and put it aside when the turret arrives. Building for the battleship takes precedent over models for my own collection.

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