HMS Victory build

QUOTE: Originally posted by Chuck Fan Actually, running out all guns on weather side of the ship while leaving all guns on the lee side inboard is a common practice when sailing on a boradreach. It improves the ship's stiffness, reduce the ship's heel and increases the ship's speed. Zeolous captains even insist that all members of watches not currently on duty to stand by the weatherside rails to make the ship stiffer still.

Originally posted by Mr_Gardner aha! I certainly like the idea of a nice coppery bottom! Well-some tanning would help! ;-) Reply Edit Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, September 17, 2005 2:04 PM aha! I hadn't thought of that! I'm going to go do some surfing to see if I can find out! I certainly like the idea of a nice coppery bottom! Cheers, Steve Reply Edit Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, September 17, 2005 1:54 PM Steve-I wonder how copper weathers in sea water as opposed to air. Reply Edit Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, September 17, 2005 1:39 PM Well, I for one intend to weather my Victory - which leads me to this question; Would the copper be copper coloured or should it be greeny coloured like the statue of liberty? Also, I have a feeling that the top of the copper plating should be some other colour like grey - anyone have any thoughts on this as I may be thinking of the Constitution rather than Victory. This is my 1st sailed ship so maybe all sailing ship models have such horrible instructions but I have to say, I've never come across instructions that cause instant eye strain when looking over them! And the paint guide leaves a lot to be desired! One last thing, would a ship like this have all the hatches that cover the cannons open at the same time, or could some be open and some be closed? Cheers, Steve Reply Edit Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 12, 2005 11:01 PM Ships seem to be rarely built and finished with the same degree of weathering that armour and aircraft get, I can understand why. To me, ship models are more snapshots rather than recreations, not sure if that makes sense? It seems more appropriate that a model aircraft should be weathered, it just looks wrong on a ship to me at least. Dan! never, I won't quit on it, I may ignite it, but I won't quit till the flames die out! I guess it is my first model since....well, a while And I had never used an airbrush before at all, in fact the last model I did, possibly got painted with a finger,lol But still, I know what I am aiming for, but it just eludes me atm, we'll see how the other side goes. Like I said, she can allways sit with her starboard side against the wall Reply Edit Chuck Fan Member since April 2004 Posted by Chuck Fan on Monday, September 12, 2005 8:20 PM Keep in mind that the real Victory of Napoleonic war would have been at sea 11 month out of each year she was in commission, being battered by sea and weather. Her paint would have been constantly touched up by a hodge podge of yellow and black paints from large number of different and disreputable sources, dilluted to different degrees based how much paint there is left, how large of an area needs to be painted, and how much turpentine remains in the ship's stores. The edge of the stripes would have been eyeballed by sailors sitting on planks hanging over the gunwales. Yes, a slickly painted Victory looks more impressive to the casual observer. But a indifferent paint job where areas of the same color really consists of patch work of slightly different tints and shade is far more realistic. Reply scottrc Member since December 2003 From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W Posted by scottrc on Monday, September 12, 2005 7:56 PM I'm having that battle with a 1/350 Bismark. I would think after 20 years of building sailing ships that this would be a walk in the park, a two month build. WRONG! I'm now into my 6th month and it almost went into my "wall of shame". I mean, how hard can a few black and white stripes be? And painting the dark grey on the tops of the turrents, ARRGH! And after two hours getting the PE just right on one of the float planes, yup, all the little struts and cubanes, I go and drop a paint bottle on it while putting it away. Oh well, I still have two more. I build in a basement with a 8x10 concrete wall that remains clear for those "late night therapy sessions". But still, I am liking the looks of it, although it is not close to being a good as other builds, I'm still having fun tinkering with it. I have put it away a few times but it lies there, on the shelf, taunting me, so I take it off the shelf and put it back on the table just to be able to knock off one of the PE radars while grabbing a pair of tweezers. This is the same model that survived my basement flooding in June with minimal damage. Yup, building these can be quite rewarding eh? Scott Reply Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 12, 2005 7:52 PM Vapo-make your own tape and remember that overspray is like atmosphere-it gets everywhere-so be careful. Someone mentioned in this thread that there are more ships to build: "If thine eye troubles thee-pluck it out!". Don't turn this hobby into a herculean labour. If this kit is a pain remember that no medals are handed out to those dying with their brushes in their hands, Not that i advocate giving up but I have done it to save my sanity (oops-too late), Edit: perhaps I mean just putting it aside for a bit. Reply Edit Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 12, 2005 7:24 PM I'm using the Tamiya stuff, and in fairness it is good tape, it's just the hull detail stops it from making that "perfect" edge. I'm about to start masking up the other side, so I will try a few different things, some have worked on the sails(scrap) that came with the kit, they have some surface detail, so allow me to see whats what. It just really gets my goat, most things I do, I do with a very high degree of precision, it's my job, so when faced with something as "simple" as painting a straight bloody line! it pains me when it goes a bit adrift,lol. To top it all, after I'd finished yesterday, I was cleaning up and spilt black enammel over the stern part of the kit which WAS a nice flat yellow It was at that point that I dropped brushes into the jar and just walked away! So that now needs to be stripped and resprayed. It just seems to be never ending,lol, I was warned that tuhis kit was not for the faint of heart, but my god is it a battle of wills atm. Reply Edit scottrc Member since December 2003 From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W Posted by scottrc on Monday, September 12, 2005 6:11 PM Hi David, I hope you don't get to frustrated, there will always be more ships to build and this is just a learning curve, so don't be to hard on yourself, your ship is looking very very good. To finish these plastic sailing ships, you need to look outside the traditional hobby suppliers and at automotive finish and art suppliers for good masking materials, paint finishers, and most important, brushes. About your masking tape, what kind did you use? The best kinds are high quality drafting / commercial artist tapes and automotive pin stripe tape. Tamiya tape is good too but I cannot get it to fit the fine contours that Heller sailing ship hulls have. Also, get a few sheets of Frisket paper. This is a masking paper that is also very thin, yet can be cut and fitted into contours quit easily and won't harm finished surfaces. My experience with liquid mask has not been very good either. IT does not create a good demarcation, nor is it very easy to remove from painted surfaces. I just tried it on a 1/350 Trumpter Arizona with horrible results. A good tape, a lighted magnifier, some patience, and a very sharp edge is the best thing. Also, feel free to mask off the area's that need touch up, and get a very high quality sable brush, thin you paint, and do light coats on your touch up areas, after this and a clear coat, you will never know that it was touched up. For clear finishes, many of us use Future, and for an enamel finish, I like Floquile's dull coat. It can be thinned with Floquile Thinner for really light coats. I also use Graumbacher or Liquitex acrylic satincoat as well, again, it sprays on and is easy to reduce and looks very good. It also will not colect dust or hair which why artists use it on paintings as a protectant. Hope to see more of your progress. Scott Reply Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 12, 2005 4:46 PM Yes Testors Dullcoat works welll-just use light coats after much agitation (not you-the can) as you work and don't use after rigging (creates a dust magnet). Reply Edit Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 12, 2005 3:50 PM what is it? a spray can? I was/a, using dull coat as a protective barrier for the copper paint. Reply Edit Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 12, 2005 3:13 PM Believe me, David, clear coat is a good thing! PS-or don't believe me-post a question-it's true!! Reply Edit Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 12, 2005 1:48 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by trowlfazz David-Realize that a little brush touch-up and a little inadvertant glue all disappear in the final clear coat. Had never planed on using anything over the top? Reply Edit Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 12, 2005 1:07 PM David-Realize that a little brush touch-up and a little inadvertant glue all disappear in the final clear coat. Reply Edit Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 12, 2005 12:39 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Lufbery David, Take it easy on yourself, man! I think it looks pretty good. Sure there's a little bit of touch-up needed, but nothing really bad. Moreover, I like the colors. Please keep us posted. Regards, Thanks Lufbury, new day fresh eyes, I'm still upset at the finish (i'll get some better pics today) but yes, it is workable. I'll just have this side facing the wall The biggest problem is with the liquid mask, it really is crap on this kinda surface, it lifted the yellow off in places and just stuck like glue in others. I have some other "stuff" that I'll give a try too, it worked ok on scrap, though it was never intended for this use. I'll have the other side done this week sometime. I have to get a move on, the idea is to have the main part of the hull/superstructure done before the little one arrives in Dec Reply Edit Lufbery Member since December 2002 From: Harrisburg, PA Posted by Lufbery on Monday, September 12, 2005 8:44 AM David, Take it easy on yourself, man! I think it looks pretty good. Sure there's a little bit of touch-up needed, but nothing really bad. Moreover, I like the colors. Please keep us posted. Regards, -Drew Build what you like; like what you build. Reply Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 12, 2005 6:31 AM Man-you guys post at some length! David-liquid mask is crap-plus it ruins brushes. A high quality brush is better for touch-up. Plus masking tape is best trimmed to produce a sharp edge-the factory edge gets bashed about and wasn't too sharp to begin with. I use a straight-edge and X-acto to get a nice clean edge. It's laborious but worth it. Reply Edit Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 11, 2005 10:26 PM mere details,lol Given the effort that is going into just getting the damm thing to not look like it fell into the paint, I may just not bother with "scale" extras, at this point in time I may just not bother at all! Reply Edit Chuck Fan Member since April 2004 Posted by Chuck Fan on Sunday, September 11, 2005 9:37 PM Just a couple of points about the copper sheath. 1. The very stem of the ship, the cutwater, is actually plated with much larger lead sheets in a vertical roll. Heller did not represent this. I cut a strip of aluminum foil to represent this. 2. The very top of the copper sheath is battened down with a roll of wood strips about 5-6 inches high and 2 inch thick. This roll runs the length of the ship from rudder post to the stem. Heller also missed this. I used 1mm X 0.5mm evergreen styrene strip to reproduce this. Reply Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 11, 2005 9:24 PM Well, the starboard side is sprayed At this point in time, I'm not sure what my next move is, the liquid mask is crap! anything with a texture and it sticks better than CA! It's left me with quite alot of clean up to do, and some touch up of the flat yellow, which will look sh!t brushed over the sprayed finish! Overall finish is alot better than before I think, but there is still not that razor sharp line I was looking for, there is so much surface detail on this son of B!#$@ that the paint still creeps a little in places. It's worst up around the bow area, and will need much "fettling" I'll leave it a few days to calm down, but if I don't feel any different, I may just sling it. Reply Edit Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 11, 2005 12:15 AM Thanks JT, I actually had figured that one out the first time round, that's what caused the paint cock up in the first place, because of the line that it takes, it crosses some of the most horrible areas to try and mask! my intention this time is to use the tape but then use liquid mask at the worst places, like the ornamental areas above the gun ports(I guess they were rain gaurds?) The other issue is that this kit has wood grain nicely molded into it, masks getting a nice line harder, again, my tactic this time is to a use a slightly thicker paint mix and spray at no less then about 100o to the tape, so I don't spray paint under the edge. We'll know by next weekend if it works, or if this kit will have a sacrificial burning! Reply Edit jtilley Member since May 2003 From: Greenville, NC Posted by jtilley on Saturday, September 10, 2005 10:53 PM Before you start working on the black paint, take a careful look at some photos of the ship - and a really careful look at the hull moldings. The stripes on the Victory's hull sides are subtle things. The tops and bottoms of them follow their own graceful, independent curves. The stripes taper in width slightly but noticeably toward the bow and stern. They don't run parallel to the gunports, or to the decks. All this is discussed on the ship's website ( www.hms-victory.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=41&Itemid=44 ). I don't know just how the people responsible for the real ship determined where to paint those stripes - but I think I know why. It was to compensate for an optical illusion that would take place if the stripes were of constant width. Fortunately, the Heller designers understood this. (In some ways those folks didn't quite understand prototype shipbuilding, but they sure understood aesthetics.) One of the things I noticed on the review sample of the Heller Victory that I was sent years ago was that the boundaries of the stripes were indicated - quite accurately, I think - by extremely fine raised lines on the hull halves. Follow those raised lines and everything should work out great. Unfortunately those wretched English-language "instructions" don't clarify this point. Just about every finished Heller Victory I've ever encountered has the stripes in the wrong places. Most modelers seem to assume the stripes run parallel to the tops and bottoms of the gunports. The discrepancy is small - probably no more than 3/16" or so - but once you get sensitized to it, it's pretty obvious. Hope this helps. Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery. Reply Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, September 10, 2005 5:42 PM Well I've got the hull copper and yellow laid down again! The flash makes the yellow look a bit brighter than it actually is. Much happier with the result, though I still have to lay the flat black down which is where it went wrong last time, I have a better plan so hopefully I won't be stripping it down again Reply Edit Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, September 8, 2005 6:20 PM JT, my copy of "C. Nepean Longridge, The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships" Oh my! this is more of a barrel than a can of worms! I need to draw a line in the sand, the more info I get, the further away from completion I get. What a stunning book for details, especially the rigging! thanks for a first rate recommendation Reply Edit 123456 JOIN OUR COMMUNITY! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login Register SEARCH FORUMS FREE NEWSLETTER SIGN UP By signing up you may also receive reader surveys and occasional special offers. We do not sell, rent or trade our email lists. View our Privacy Policy. FORUMS PRODUCT REVIEWS READER GALLERY HOW TO VIDEOS SHOP ABOUT US FREE MONTHLY NEWSLETTER SIGN UP By signing up you may also receive reader surveys and occasional special offers. We do not sell, rent or trade our email lists. View our Privacy Policy. More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy