Heller Soleil Royal…..the ultimate building guide.

      I have the Heller SOLEIL ROYAL kit gathering dust on a top shelf as a future "to do" project. I wish pictures from this book could be presented on the Forum, so that I can down load these pictures as a reference for this future build project.

   Montani semper liberi !   Happy modeling to all and every one of you.

                                 Crackers              

Hi Guys

After a little internet rummaging I've obtained a copy in pdf format of  "Les Vaisseaux du Roi Soleil" !!

Now I'm pretty sure some of you would like me to post it but I'm no expert in this area so I need to check/clarify a couple of points:

1. Is there any problem on this forum of posting links to free file hosting sites like rapidshare?
2. The book is in two WinRAR files of about 75mb each (may take a while to download depending on your internet connection)
3. The final product, when downloaded and unzipped is clearly of a photocopy of the book so the alignment of the margins is a bit rubbish, but it doesn't appear that any of the text is actually missing

I'll get posting once I've got clarification of point 1. above

Rob

Not sure how to post it, but, I'd sure like a copy.  If  you can email it to me at cbaxter_123@hotmail.com, I'd be greatful!  Thanks!

  Dear Rob:   I don't pretent to be an expert at the computer. You can however, try this method. If the printer to your computer has the ability to scan, take your book, open the door over the computer glass, lay the book flat with the opposite pages sticking out, close the door over the book and press the scan button. When the scanning process is completed, then transfer the picture to the picture folder on your computer. From the picture folder, take note of the picture label, then  transfer these pictures to a hosting web site, such as PhotoBucket or Flickr. Once these hosting web sites accepts your picture, right click on the picture to  "properties"," select all","copy", then ok. 

     Once that is completed, visit the Forum posting message site. When a task bar appears at the top the page, put you curser on the 'insert media", the film strip to the left of the smiley face. When that opens up, right click on "copy". Your picture should appear on the Forum message page along with any comments you wish to write for your viewers.

   No, there should not be any problem posting to the Forum from hosting web sites. I do it all the time. I guarantee Odd Job will not visit your home and beat you to a bloody pulp. 
 

        Montani semper liberi !      Happy modeling to all and every one of you.

                                  Crackers                            

RobertP

After a little internet rummaging I've obtained a copy in pdf format of  "Les Vaisseaux du Roi Soleil" !!

Now I'm pretty sure some of you would like me to post it but I'm no expert in this area so I need to check/clarify a couple of points:

1. Is there any problem on this forum of posting links to free file hosting sites like rapidshare?

 

I don't think, that You can post links to file hosting sites to download scanned to PDF file "Les Vaisseaux du Roi Soleil" book, becouse of copyright issues.

That is why I haven't posted anything from the book.  The more I peruse the line drawings, the more convinced I become that the model in the Musee de la Marine is of the second Le Soleil Royal; there are plenty of drawings of first rates that almost have the same hull lines and characteristics found in the Heller kit.

Because of these line drawings, I have raised my waterline to the lower wale midships. It makes a huge difference!

Bill Morrison

Good point about potential copyright issues Wojszwillo, I'd better not post

It is remarkable however how incredibly easy it was to find a copy of such an obscure book on page one of a google search for the book title - something that I'm sure forum members won't attempt to do!

Onto a more kit related point and one that legitimate owners of  "Les Vaisseaux du Roi Soleil" might be able to help with

I've just assembled the hull halves along with the first gun deck (not as scary as I feared) and its time for the first guns to go in. I was just about to order a bunch of metal cannon barrels that looked OK to replace the (allegedly) too long and thin barrels supplied with the kit when Bill Morrison posted about the above book. Now I'm thinking that I can stick with the kit barrels (and save myself a fortune) - BUT - I'm still bothered about the way the cannon barrels seem disproportionately too long for the carraiges -  has anyone got any observations about this. I'm not too bothered for the lower gun decks on the "what you can't see won't hurt you" basis but when I arrive at the upper decks? . . .

By the way Bill Morrison's comments about colour inspired me to go for the wall to wall blue and gold for the hull a la Berain and I think it looks great (a bit gaudy, but what the hell - it was the flagship!!)

Rob

Wojszwillo

RobertP:

After a little internet rummaging I've obtained a copy in pdf format of  "Les Vaisseaux du Roi Soleil" !!

Now I'm pretty sure some of you would like me to post it but I'm no expert in this area so I need to check/clarify a couple of points:

1. Is there any problem on this forum of posting links to free file hosting sites like rapidshare?

  Wojszwillo, you are correct. I did not think of copyright violations. I imagine to buy this book would be prohibative. Those French research books by Jean Boudriot are very expensive for most modelers. The publication," LA VENUS, de L'ingenieur Sane", a research book about a frigate design by Jean Boudriot costs $95.00. "Les Vaisseaux Du Roi Soleil" would probably be in this price range. I don't think so. We have a tight budget. If my wife found out I spent $95. for a book, she'd blow her stack , and she would be justified.

I don't think, that You can post links to file hosting sites to do. wnload scanned to PDF file "Les Vaisseaux du Roi Soleil" book, becouse of copyright issues.

Anthony,

Yes, A.N.C.R.E.'s books are expensive. For this book i have payd 80 EUR'os. But the book is worth this money. 

Rob, i have some information about french gun carriages of that time, will post tommorow.

I had the Heller Soleil Royale to review for the UK IPMS Magazine in (I think) 1975. At the time John Tilley  ( see his post on the first page) had written a detailed article for the British 'Scale Models' magazine. He helped me a lot at the time with supplementary information for this model after I had contacted him, having read his article. I still have all his correspondence to me in a folder to this day. I got as far as building up and painting the hull and all the stern galleries, but some of the inaccuracies that John dscribed were starting to niggle as I knew that the model would be inaccurate.  It sat covered on a shelf for about 4 years afterwards as I had lost interest in the project. On the plus side, I experimented on this model by using artists acrylics on a flat white enamel base to try to obtain subtle colour variations in the wood, Also I used various shades of the 3 shades of gold powders by Rose Miniatures mixed with clear enamel for all the gilt work. The idea was to use shading and blending techniques similar to figure modellers. Basically, I was very pleased with the result of this experimentation. I took the hull along to a local model club meeting to show other members. One guy kept on pestering me to sell him the model as it was for the next few months. In the end I relented and sold it on to him.

To cut a long story short he finished off and rigged the model, and to be fair it looked good. The only thing that bemused me a bit was that he had the audacity to enter the model as his own (and win) competitions with it when I had done about half the work!  Oh well, it takes all sorts!  I didn't complain and just left him to enjoy his hollow victories with utter contempt!

Hey Rob,

kudos for having the guts to go with wall to wall blue and gold!  Old Louis would be proud.   

 I am working on this kit too. (Heller version)  I have a build log on the UK based Pete Coleman Victory forum, check it out.  They have a section dedicated purely to this kit.  I could post some links for you to some german build logs that are pretty cool.

Have you picked up Dr. Anderson's book for the rigging?  Very helpful.

About the guns, the problem can be fixed by relocating the trunions and wheels.  It makes a huge difference.

Check what I mean

http://www.wettringer-modellbauforum.de/forum/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=28516

scroll down to see how he fixed his guns. Worth the effort.  He's making a pirate version though!!

These are some good links:

http://www.modellboard.net/index.php?topic=24946.0

http://forum.aceboard.net/5500-323-28683-0-Soleil-royal.htm

Take care, happy modeling!

Edmond,

Thanks for the links!  Relocating the trunions and wheels does make a huge difference, just as does raising the waterline to the lower wale!  After perusing the book, making some minor adjustments such as the above, I am convinced that this kit is nowhere near as bad as its critics maintain!

Bill Morrison

No problem, just passing on what was pointed out to me!  :)

I too raised the waterline and was happy with the results.

As far as the criticism of the kit, although I am enjoying this build immensely, I find the further I progress the more I feel that some criticism is indeed warranted.  However, this should not stop anyone who wants to build it and it is still a work of art in my opinion. And the funny thing is, the things people moan about concerning this kit are actually not that bad or innacurate.  Besides, all the additional research is actually kind of a hobby in itself.  ;)

By the way do you have pictures of your build posted anywhere?

take care, and happy modeling

Edmund,

Unfortunately, I have no posted pics. My new camera is having compatibility issues with my old computer. I wish I could post but am willing to send pics via snail mail if you like (same for RobertP).  I have modified the Berain painting sceme by using three shades of blue and painting the lower wale black. I raised the waterline to the lower wale as illustrated in Les Vaisseaus . . ., and have opened the quarter galleries.

As far as criticisms go, I have yet to find any kit that doesn't merit some.  I am interested in the problems you are finding so that I can plan ahead to correct them.

A few comments ago, it was commented that this thread is less a building guide than an historical discussion.  However, the historical aspect of the discussion led to a very generous gentleman from Lithuania (Marius) sending me a French book of warships of the subject era with hundreds of illustrations that show that the oft-maligned shallow run aft of the hull below the waterline was indeed a common feature of many French first-rates.  It also showed the correct placement of the waterline which, when the builder raises the kit waterline to match, the hull is more realistically proportioned.  Indeed, the overall lines of the kit hull actually do resemble a French First-Rate of the period, including its apparent proportions. The book also indicated the maligned kit cannons were not so incorrect, and that further led to Edmund providing links to several European sites that demonstrated how to correctly adjust the cannons on their carriages to make them more realistic. The historical discussion also led to an examination of the  Musee de la Marine model on which the kit is based, which clearly shows opened quarter galleries. The Musee model also contains the controversial hole in the knee of the head, which Heller incorporated into Le Soleil Royal. According to the illustrations in Les Vaisseaus . . ., some ships were so constructed, some were not.  Take your pick.

These observations are critical to building a more realistic and accurate model of a French First-Rate of the 17th century. But does it actually represent one of the several ships named Le Soleil Royal?  There are several detail differences between the paintings by Berain and the Heller kit, such as the shape of the quarter galleries, the gingerbread, etc.  The lines and the proportions of the model seem to match those of ships illustrated in Les Vaisseaus . . . in the early 18th century, which is when the second Le Soleil Royal was built.  It seems plausible to me that the builder of the Musee model was building the second Le Soleil Royal. I wonder whether the builder of the Musee de la Marine model knew or had any plans.  Without any further proof, it would be spurious at best to state that the Heller kit is anything other than a model of a model of Le Soleil Royal or stands alone as a model of a generic 17th-18th century French First-Rate.

Bill Morrison

Hello, Im new to this forum. I have a 1/100 Heller Soleil Royal. The issue I have is the instructions are in French. Doe anybody out here have set of English instructions. I willing to pay for the copy and postage if someone is willing to help. Many Thanks.

Nelson - There should be a translation (not perfect and a little incomplete) towards the back of the plans booklet - in mine it starts at page 27

However, if a "full" English version is out there and in a postable form - hero status awaits!!

Good evening; I'm new in this forum - I'm french -  and I'm building my second Soleil Royal; the first one has been stupidly sold to a nice Hotel near "Arc de triomphe" in Paris and proudly stands in the lounge; I was so sad that my daughter bought another one for Xmas - my new Soleil Royal will be waterline, and rigged with furled sails. 

About documentation: "Les vaisseaux du roi soleil " is an excellent document; but there is another one: "L'album de Colbert", a pure wonder of drawings elaborated in 1670 to educate Colbert, the famous Minister of Navy of King Louis XIV; it is a 50-plates large scale atlas, all the rigging is described  , all the steps of construction, series of cut-outs, front, rear,side views of a  typical ship ready to sail.  Extremely useful, and useful to close many discussions. And it's accompanied by an excellent modern english translation. And so exciting to work from such a beautiful source.

It is very expensive...but  well well well...it's the same answer than for "les vaisseaux du roi soleil"...everything can be found on the internet........

About the kit booklet: If someone has a problem to understand the kit booklet in french language, t would be a pleasure to help.

Bonne soirée à tous

Hi there I haven't been able to post on the forum for a bit but I do indeed have a pdf of the instructions in English.  I am not sure how I would go about sending them but if you have any ideas I could oblige.

However as I am in the process of building this interesting model, I think the previous advice is better than an english version of the innacurate Heller instructions.  Although the english version is intersting to have, I have found the most helpful things to be:

-The Pete Coleman Victory Forum which has a growing SR community and many a friendly scholar (mysel not included [friendly yes, scholar no ;)  ]  )

-Dr. Anderson's book

-Lenarth Peterson's book on rigging

-A prolific SR/Victory poster named Daniel/Dafi- good guy(you can find him on the links I previously posted)

Hope this helps and let me know if you still need those instructions.

Take care and happy modeling. 

Bonne soiree a vous aussi Barfleur, j'aime votre nom!  tres appropos pour le sujet

barfleur,

You did a beautiful job on that model . . . I escorted a student group from Hartford, Connecticut there recently.  I truly enjoyed my visits to France but was disappointed to find that McDonalds had polluted the landscape there as well as here! 

I really found that, on my models of "Soleil" that, once I raised the waterline to the lower wale as illustrated in "Les Vaisseaux . . ." the hull dimensions actually looked  correct.  Anyway, thanks for that reference; I will look it up.

Edmond,  Many thanks for your reply. Im happy for you to send PDF via email.  You can send to my email address: gary.jones@iinet.net.au.

Cheers.

P.S. Thanks to all for there advise and help.

Actually this is a multi-purpose post

First, huge thanks to "Edmond Dantes" for the heads up on "re balancing" the guns. Its amazing how shifting the wheels a little further apart and nudging the gun barrel forward a couple or so millimeters turns a wierd "child's drawing" of a cannon into a pretty respectable object. The main difficulty I encountered was what to do with the trunnions?

The links on Edmond Dantes' post were of seriously skillful modellers cutting off trunnions, drilling and replacing with a metal pin - impressive, but way beyond my technological (and quite possibly, skill) capabilities. So I decided to have a go at cutting off the little plastic trunnions with great care and saving the tiny fragments. I then trimmed the barrel smooth and painted and assembled the cannon with all the adjustments mentioned above. I then glued the saved trunnion pins back in place.

When I attempted this I confess I had huge doubts that I could get it to work, but amazingly it does!. Certainly for lower deck batteries where close scrutiny from above is impossible - no problems. I suspect that those guns in full view on the top deck might not quite pass muster, particularly as they are so much smaller than the 24 and 18 pounders down below and I think I might have reached my skill limit with this approach with the 18's (though I will give the smaller pieces a go when I get round to them later on and report back)

I case the smaller pieces prove to be beyond me, any suggested manufacturer sources for possible replacements?

Second point, "Nelson", may I also e-mail you for an English version of the plans? It would be very useful to have a printable copy to work with and scribble on?

Thanks

Rob

Rob, are you asking me to pass on the PDF copy of the English instructions. At this point I have not had a responce from Edmond as yet. If I do recieve the plans Im more than happy to pass on to who ever needs them.

Cheers.

Hey guys, sorry for the delay. 

 I am not ignoring you I have just been out of the country for the past while so my internet time has been spotty.  I also sisn't have my own computer on line for while which the PDF is on so not much I could do.

I will go ahead and try to email that pdf. It is a HUGE file so I am worried....

I would really appreciate a .pdf of the English instructions as well.

I'm not computer geek, but could zipping the pdf compress it to a more manageable size? I know the hotmail wil send up to 10 Mg

I'd take a copy of the English instructions.   No hurry, though.  I've got a lot to keep me busy in the meantime.  Let me know and I'll PM you my email address. Thanks!

I have several copies of the old Aurora Heller plans from the 70's that are in English and have superior illustrations than the current instructions. Please send your mailing address to jpesnel@nycap.com and I'll send you a set.

Hi there,

It's great that you have some physical plans to send to people as I am not able to send the PDF. I shared the files with "Nelson" aka Gary(?) via Skydrive and I am not sure if it worked? I never heard back from him.  In the meantime, my hard drive crashed. Would you believe it!!! And I lost many a folder of reference material.  :( :(

@ Nelson :  Please let me know if you received those files and if you did, if you could send a copy  them back to me as I lost everything on my hard-drive.  That would be very much appreciated.

@Warshipguy:  In reading back over this thread, I noticed that I neglected to answer your question.  You had wnated to know what inaccuracies where getting my goat! (other than the water line) 

Currently I am not too pleased with the beak-head grating.  There are some great pics on the web of the Musee de la Marine models beakhead grating, and it is really disappointing.  Some have scratch built their own but I'm not at that level yet.

Other things to think about: 

                                                -The head rail supports being missing.  Making your own looks strange because the head rail extends much lower than shown in Berain's painting but none is a little stranger.

                                                  -The boats. a tad big, stack them or what?

                                                  -of course the rigging

                                                    -other things I forget

However none of these problems are major, and can make for some interesting kit bashing, etc.

Of interest:    the following article has me convinced that the cannons are 100% accurate:

http://levieuxlogisguerande.over-blog.fr/article-le-canon-du-soleil-royal-veille-sur-l-ancienne-cite-corsaire-44963643.html

Take care and happy modeling!

Edmond... to be honest I was not aware you intended sending me the PDF. What is "Skydrive", I have never used this. As you can gather I have not recieved any PDF from you at all....this is why you had no reply. Did you try sending it to my email addess.....gary.jones@iinet.net.au.

Many thanks.  Gary

Ahh, that would explain it.  No worries Gary.

Skydrive is a virtual hardrive that works in conjunction with Hotmail and Microsoft.  It was my first time attempting to send something of that size.  I uploaded it, clicked on share and put in the email you had provided on this thread.(it was about a month or so ago.)  And..... nothing!!  Computers, eh!!! Can't live with 'em..................

Now I have nothing to send you... Well it looks like you can email jeffpez your address and receive a copy.  Very nice!

Take care